GM News, New Models and Market Share

nvbanker

Reagan ordered Caddys & Clinton used them too.

bpizzuti

Well, I know for a long time that Lincoln was the main limo provider.

After the "surgical bankruptcy" maybe they will be again, who knows? GM missed an opportunity though...they could have created the first ever hybrid powertrain Presidential Limo, which would at least be worth something in PR. And with Ford's hybrid technology...maybe the 2013 Lincoln Presidential Hybrid? That's the ONLY way I'd excuse the administration from buying another set of limos.

nvbanker

Good idea! that Escalade hybrid plant should have fit into a limo bay......would have been political hay for Obama. Missed opportunity for both.

anythngbutgm

Up here in MA, our governor, "Cadillac Duval" or in other terms "Do-very-little Patrick" is now riding around in an Escalade hybrid that he ordered. At least somebody sees the need for a bloated 6000lb hybrid gangsta-mobile. :confuse:

nvbanker

"Escalade Hybrid" is a total oxymoron, isn't it?

andre1969

Good idea! that Escalade hybrid plant should have fit into a limo bay......would have been political hay for Obama. Missed opportunity for both. j

Hmm, I wonder how feasible it would be to transplant an Escalade hybrid drivetrain into something like an old RWD Caprice, Roadmaster, or Fleetwood?

nvbanker

I think it would be a tough expensive experiment.

anythngbutgm

I just don't see the benefits of the hybrid system on an Escalade or any vehicle of that size. At the very least, I would think from an image perspective, people who are looking to conserve fuel and lower emissions are not looking at 6000lb BOF trucks, no matter how much mileage improvment. My buddy got 10mpg with his Suburban and it cost over 100 bucks to fill up. Even if the hybrid gets 15mpg (which is what I've read in real world results), the owner still has to fork over 100 bucks a fillup which psychologically makes the E-h still look like a gas guzzler. And for a 70 thousand dollar asking price, those fuel conscious folks are probably a bit more thrifty, hence the success of the the Prius.

stever

I went to a full line GM dealer today to look at Vibes. They had a few, and they seemed to have some customers. It took a few minutes for the floor manager to find us a free salesperson.

One thing mentioned in passing, in chatting about ordering cars and trying to sell those on the lot, was that the owner was ordering fewer new cars and stocking up on used ones since there was more money in them.

The salesperson was surprisingly refreshing - it's a non-commission shop, so maybe they feel like they can be more open talking about what to stock, floor planning and such.

210delray

I know the topic has moved on, but I just got back home today.

My overall fuel economy for my 1998 Nissan Frontier since I started keeping electronic records 5 years ago is 26.0 mpg. Of course, it has only a 4-cylinder and 5-speed manual and is the regular cab model (no longer made). Most people would probably find it underpowered but it works for me (and I like shifting for myself).

Back to the presidential limos, I don't think Bush or Obama had any real say in what kind of wheels they got. After all, 9/11 changed everything, and the Secret Service would be considered lax if they didn't update the limo with the latest security features at least every 4 years.

I'm old enough to remember when JFK was shot, and I wouldn't want to go through something like that again (or 9/11 either).

tjeff

Is it fair that U.S. taxpayers are paying for the luxury of those who buy foreign cars?

The purchase of a foreign car --even of those made in the U.S.-- adds to the trade deficit. And every dollar of that deficit is funded by debt, on which we taxpayers pay the interest. $100's of billions in debt, and billions in interest. Wake up, and recognize the damaging consequences of buying foreign.

dave8697

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/14/autos/iihs_small_vs_big/index.htm

I went from 1988 to 1998 without buying a new car.

tlong

The purchase of a foreign car --even of those made in the U.S.-- adds to the trade deficit.

Disagree. My Acura TL contributed less to the trade deficit than a Mexican Ford Fusion.

bpizzuti

Back to the presidential limos, I don't think Bush or Obama had any real say in what kind of wheels they got. After all, 9/11 changed everything, and the Secret Service would be considered lax if they didn't update the limo with the latest security features at least every 4 years.

Update maybe....that's been done before in history. And it's cheaper than buying a new one every 4 years. If it was a 9/11 security thing, then they wouldn't have waited until 3.5 years after the thing to buy the next limo. It's just a matter of the government deciding it wanted some of that level of extravagance that corporates were flaunting. Besides, if they really want security, he'd be driven around in the back of an armored Hummer, not a fully optioned stretch Caddy limo...probably even has OnStar. :shades:

If the ordinary American people can drive around in an 8 year old or older vehicle, so can the people's President.

"Hello, OnStar." "Yes, we seem to have locked the nuclear football in the presidential limo." "Oh, we'll take care of that right away for you sir!"

xrunner2

Does GM build the Presidential limos or some kind of private company? With all of the special armor body panels, thick glass, beefy suspension to handle the weight, hand-built super spec engine block and components, no doubt redundant electronics, etc, etc, etc., would think that the only similiarity of Presidential limo to airport limo is look-alike grilles and taillights. Presidential limo vs airport limo is like NASCAR Chevy of Jeff Gordon to Showroom Chevy that we Edmunds readers can buy.

bpizzuti

They used to be built by limo companies, but the last several were built directly by GM. And they probably didn't manage to make a profit on those either. :shades:

ingvar

Yes, it is fair, because U.S. taxpayers buying foreign cars, not an aliens from a Mars. Why GM don't want to make cars better than BMW or Mercedes? Even with corvette GM doesn't want to go extra mile and make it outstanding car.

circlew

100% CORRECT. All of those wasted costs and the cars are second rate at best. :sick:

A 3-series blows away anything Detroit makes, especially GM.

Regards,
OW

lemko

Could you imagine any modern president riding in an open car these days? It would be suicide with all the psychos and terrorists out there!!! I believe those new limos could have a bomb underneath them and the occupants could still survive. I also heard the new Presidential limo can protect the occupants against chemical and biological weapons.

xrunner2

GM might have a chance to equal BMW and Mercedes after it dissolves into bad parts and good parts. The good could be the Cadillac company and the Chevrolet company without unions. The bad parts can keep the GM brand and figure out what to do with the remainder.

210delray

From what I recall reading right here on Edmunds, the limo is based on a medium-duty GM truck like the Topkick. Of course it's a one-off, and all the weight of the armoring required using a monster vehicle like this as a basis. It's just styled to look like a DTS. I believe you're right Lemko about the vehicle being able to withstand a bomb going off underneath.

210delray

Well, what about the trade deficit generated just by buying foreign oil -- it has to be huge? And some of those countries despise us.

dieselone

Well, what about the trade deficit generated just by buying foreign oil -- it has to be huge? And some of those countries despise us.

Oil is a very large part of it.

nippononly

Investor group wants to buy Saturn, sell overseas brands

GM says proposal is 'very interesting'

April 15, 2009 - 1:54 pm ET

DETROIT -- An investor group called Telesto Ventures says it wants to acquire Saturn's retail operations and provide dealers with vehicles from General Motors through 2011 and mostly overseas manufacturers thereafter.

A GM spokesman said today the group's proposal is legitimate and "very interesting."

....Telesto includes a private equity firm, Black Oak Partners LLC, based in Oklahoma City, and several other investors. It's not clear how much money is backing Telesto and what auto experience the group has.

.....According to Telesto's press release, the products in the Saturn dealerships would have various brand names and could be sold elsewhere. Pappanastos says Telesto prefers small, fuel-efficient vehicles.

"It's similar to a Best Buy model in that customers deal with Best Buy because of the customer experience not because they are the only place to buy a Samsung or a Sony TV," Pappanastos says.

As of April 5, Saturn had 384 rooftops in the United States. Pappanastos says the plans would save 12,000 to 15,000 retail jobs.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090415/ANA02/904159991/1078-
(registration link)

This sounds like it might be for real, which would be an interesting way for the Saturn name to survive, albeit without actual Saturn-branded cars on the road. I wonder if they can get something firmed up in time to stop the mass exodus of the Saturn dealers though - you hear about more of them folding all the time since GM announced it would be closing down the brand.

bpizzuti

That is kinda interesting...turning Saturn dealers into the "Best Buy" of car retailers? But who are they gonna sell? Tata? Chery? Geely? Proton? God help us, Zatsava and Lada?

Or maybe they could carry Fiat, since you KNOW they won't be sold here as Chryslers...15 days to go...

imidazol97

>Best Buy model.

I hate Best Buy. They've been caught cheating the public in various ways by Attorneys General in the states. They are unresponsive to customer comment and complaints. I buy things elsewhere like HH Gregg and the office stores ( Office Depot, OfficeMax, and Staples) and on the internet rather than their stores.

gagrice

I hate Best Buy.

They are way over priced. But the masses are clueless so they shop there. They are the last one standing here in San Diego, with Circuit City and CompUSA gone. At one time there was a dozen different electronics stores. Now I do all my research on line and most of the time buy from Amazon. I got a $1000 gift certificate from Best Buy when I retired. I took over two years to spend it. I got several things and took them back. They never have what I am looking for.

I don't see BB as a viable auto seller. You need dealers with a place to prep and repair broken cars of EVERY make.

nippononly

it is intriguing to think they may sell several different makes at once. But once you scratch the surface, it becomes difficult to see how they would do that unless those manufacturers were first paying for U.S. certification, which is expensive - that cost would be passed along by the Saturn retailers, and you might end up with overpriced foreign cars that wouldn't sell.

I'm thinking of things that COULD work, like for instance the Tata Nano Europa would be the perfect fit here - it will sell for $5000 in Europe and presumably could sell for about the same here, from Saturn retail stores. They could be authorized warranty service centers for all brands and models that they sell, again similar to Best Buy.

Perhaps as Tesla expands they would seek to sell some of their lower priced models through the Saturn chain. I would say there is definitely potential in this idea.

Those among us who were longing vocally for the one-price-fits-all approach to auto sales in the dealerships thread should be quite satisfied at this prospect.......

......of course, on the flip side, we see here yet another private equity firm that knows nothing about cars or selling cars (a la Cerberus) planning to get into the car biz. Will they be any more successful?

dave8697

The purchase of a foreign car --even of those made in the U.S.-- adds to the trade deficit.

Disagree. My Acura TL contributed less to the trade deficit than a Mexican Ford Fusion.

you disagree that your acura added to the trade defecit?

so it had 100% US content?

My last US made new purchase was my '98 Astro which has been less dependable that I thought it would be but probably 3 times as dependable as CR rated it.
for me:
Low maintenance costs
low repair costs
great trip mileage
quiet and solid
very low insurance
something like 150 cu ft behind driver's seat
sit up higher than many trucks

circlew

If you buy any computer/electronics related products from Best Buy, you spent too much.

newegg.com for real savings.

Regards,
OW

dtownfb

I don't see how this is a good idea. They would have to sell foreign cars that do not have current dealerships in the US. I can't imagine them selling a Subaru, Mitubishi, etc. and the respective local dealership not being upset. Do they honestly believe that many Americans are willing to buy a car they know very little about and have very few options for repair work? Our market is already over saturated.

Best bet is for Fiat to buy the Saturn dealerships. It gives Fiat 2-3 years to get their cars certified for the US. And also time to buy a few of the Chrysler plants to build some of their cars here.

circlew

...perhaps.

The General Motors Corp. may drop the Pontiac and GMC brands as a way to cut costs, according to a Bloomberg report.

Brand Cuts

Regards,
OW

bpizzuti

It's about time. Though they're going to have to rebrand the medium trucks as Chevy. Neither brand has anything else unique.

imidazol97

>newegg.com for real savings.


Yes. But like gagrice I shop Amazon.

dieselone

I like Amazon and Newegg. Generally though, Amazon is more expensive than Newegg on computer stuff. Once in a great while BestBuy is in the ballpark, but you have to catch the right sale. I only go to BB when I need something now, which isn't very often.

xrunner2

Is it safe to drvie, ride in? What are IIHS and US Govt crash test ratings on that GM Astro?

anythngbutgm

Yikes, don't even go there. It is not pretty by any means. It was even worse than the blazer clones of the same year. Might still be safer than the Daewoo Chevy Aveo though, but not by much.

fho2008

That was a way to share some parts! Made from the S10, that shared parts with the Camaro (no V8) and S10 Blazer.

Now about the only thing the Trailblazer and Colorado share are Chevy badges and the I4-5, Trailblazer only I6.

If they made the I-6 the base engine in fullsize trucks........that makes too much sense for GM, but if they did, what a value the base full size truck would be, not that it isnt now, but the advantages of an inline six, power, longevity, we can dream can't we.

imidazol97

I saw a new SS Camaro in black on I70. It's a striking car and looks much better in life on the road than it does in the pictures I've seen.

stever

Just put an alert at FatWallet and when the item you want goes on sale, grab it. Just don't read it every day or you'll see all sorts of deals for stuff you didn't know you wanted.

No more Pontiac? Figures, since I'm considering buying a Vibe. The deals are already pretty hot on them - the fire sale prices could be something else.

bpizzuti

I see they put in the spot for the "Knight Rider" strobe...hoping to take over for the Mustang maybe? :shades:

gagrice

That is a nice looking car. Hope it sells well. It could help GM pull out of bankruptcy.

circlew

Go for the Vibe anyway...if it breaks and can't be fixed, leave it at this location. Call first for a parking space!

1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington, DC 20500
(202) 456-1111

Regards,
OW

stever

Nah, even Olds are easy to get fixed. You never hear anyone complaining about getting parts or service. Not to mention that it's a Toyota clone, so if parts do dry up, most will be available from Toy.

imidazol97

>No more Pontiac? Figures, since I'm considering buying a Vibe.

Now is that a Pontiac Corolla Vibe or just a Pontiac Vibe?

tlong

so it had 100% US content?

*Nothing* has 100% US content!

My Acura was at least assembled by US workers with mostly US parts. Not so the Mexican Fusion.

tlong

Is it safe to drvie, ride in? What are IIHS and US Govt crash test ratings on that GM Astro?

My wife's uncle had an Astro, which I had the misfortune to drive a few times. It was one of the crudest and most unpleasant vehicles I've ever driven.

nvbanker

They've been caught cheating the public in various ways by Attorneys General in the states. They are unresponsive to customer comment and complaints.

Indeed - I am one of the people who has experienced Best Buy's unwillingness to back their "extended warranties" that they sell. Hopefully the new Saturn would do better than that.

nvbanker

Even when new in 1985 ( I bought 4 of them for my business at that time), the Astro/Safari was a design disaster, with no left driver's foot room at all (the hump was your footrest for the left front wheel), inadequate air conditioning, making them a bread oven in the South, and pure utility truck antiquated design. However, we must remember that is exactly what they were designed for - commercial utility use only. Then with the sudden advent of the Chrysler Mini Van, GM needed a response, and put seats in the Astro, making it a family minivan, without the economy, room or style.

The one thing these old vans did have though was durability. Some of those original 1985s are still around doing commercial duty. They were built Ford tough, oddly enough, and were remarkably well made.

nippononly

I can't imagine them selling a Subaru, Mitubishi, etc. and the respective local dealership not being upset.

No, that would be illegal too as those companies have distribution networks in the U.S. already that have exclusive rights to sell those cars here.

The idea is to sell cars here out of Saturn outlets that are NOT already sold here, like Tata, perhaps Chery, Skoda, you name it.