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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....Might these be the first Buicks imported to US from China then maybe followed by Lacrosse? What will American brand-only buyer/drivers do? Is baby Cadillac from China in the cards? Kind of a Catera-Geely."

    What makes you so sure the Lacrosse will come from China??? It's being built in Fairfax, Kansas alongside the Malibu and Aura. Once the Aura goes, there will be plenty of capacity there for 2 models. It would be a total waste to import.

    As for a "Baby Buick"? One can only speculate. If GM is truly keeping 35% of Opel, then it may come from Europe, if it's based on the Astra. But, I suppose that would be Magna's call.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    kinda like my road noise comment with the Mazda3, except I don't know if you mean dimensions are smaller or seat cushion is more comfortable.

    Most seats are spec'ed out and purchased from companies like Lear and Johnson Controls. I make my seat ratings as I get out of the vehicle at the first rest stop on a long trip, not in 20 seconds in the dealer lot.


    Well, I judge the comfort of a back seat by first putting the front seat to where I'm comfortable, which usually means all the way back, and if it has power controls, I often raise the front and lower the back a bit. Then I get in the back and see how I would fit.

    In the case of the Malibu and Aura, they hollow out the seatback, theoretically giving you space for your knees. I say "theoretically" because my legs are too long, so my knees end up being above that hollowed out area.

    Now, the quality of the seat cushions can be a different story. However, if I don't have enough room to be comfortable in the first place, it doesn't matter how well-designed the cushions are...I'm not going to like it!
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Seat comfort is not an easy thing to judge, and everyone has different perspectives. IMO I don;t think anyone needs to spend long hours in the car to actually feel whether the seats are comfortable or not. The shape of the seats, the quality and quantity of the padding used are very important.

    This is where I have issues with Malibu's seats. The seats felt ok for the first 10 seconds or so. But a few minutes later it felt too thinly padded and shape's not right. When it comes to seats, only DTS and Chrysler 300 got it right among domestics IMO.

    Which brings us to the old question: if Hon-Toy and (IMO) even Mazda can get the seats right, why not domestics?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Amen to that!!!
  • writerwriter Member Posts: 121
    This is sort of the tail end of a "long story." I was stiffed for almost 2 years for a large chunk of money. The result of that was a huge loss of opportunity (yes, I actually "called" 3 of the best investment days of the last year over 2 years ago -- US Election day, the day before inauguration and the day after inauguration). I got the money earlier this month. I am still furious. There will be no law suits, but that is another matter.

    One of the ironies of this is that another "golden" opportunity was lost. I could have bought a new car this month with huge incentives. Tomorrow is "Bankruptcy day", in the US, so there is no telling if I will lose a big chunk of the incentives. But I did not even start looking until this week, because I did not want to "pre-spend" money that was not in my pocket.

    Anyway, I was thinking about buying a 2009 Cobalt or a "new" 2008 Astra. The Astra would (or will) cost more by a few thousand. I am not sure exactly. I think about $3,000 Cdn. (Astra for about $17,000, Cobalt for about $14,000) more than the Cobalt. The Chev dealer would not talk numbers. The Chev dealer may have lost the sale for that reason alone. I am not in the mood for such games.

    Depending on the incentives, I might still buy one or the other in June. I do not really need a new car because I am a few years away from my target for my current car and it is running very well.

    My take on the differences (2-3 dr models):

    I am about 5' 6" and I cannot see out of the back window of the Cobalt adequately. The trunk is high in the back I think I could accidently bump into anything smaller than around 4' high. That is only an estimate, but expect it is a realistic one.

    I have said before elsewhere that for me, the door locks are way too far back. To reach them, I would have to tilt the seat back down. No, that is not an exaggeration.

    I specifically tried looked for these problems in the Astra. The rear window in the Astra 3 door is small, but it seems to be low enough at the bottom to avoid the first problem. I did not seem to have the door lock problem either, despite that fact that the door lock designs appeared to be the same. Maybe the whole door is shorter in length in the Astra. I did not measure them.

    So for me, the Astra is better because:

    1. I really do prefer the practicality of a hatchback (3 door) over the 2 doors and trunk layout.

    2. The rear vision issue on the Cobalt.

    3. The door lock problem of the Cobalt.

    But is that worth about $3,000, and a dealer that is farther away?
  • junkyardogjunkyardog Member Posts: 44
    You want to make sure the Chevy dealer isn't one of the one's being shut down or your next dealer could be further away also.

    Any dealer that didn't want to talk dollars to me wouldn't get my business anyhow. :surprise:
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    But is that worth about $3,000, and a dealer that is farther away?

    Well, you have to ask yourself a couple of questions to answer that. One: how often to you plan to be at the dealer? Yeah, the Chevy dealer may be closer...you also may be using that warranty more often (then again, we're talking Astra, maybe not).

    On the first item...what's more important to you? Your comfort, safety, and ability to see what's behind you? As well as a hatch? Or $3000?

    My own person opinion, $3000 is chump change compared to suffering through a vehicle I have doubts about. Sounds like you already have doubts about the Cobalt (what sane person wouldn't? :shades: ) but you have to ask yourself what the price tag is on those doubts...what amount of money will erase them?
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    You'll have to figure out what's worth your money but if it were me I think I'd be leaning to the Astra.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    You slipped on me but I agree exactly with what you say.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    GM will enter bankruptcy tomorrow. The White House has made the announcement this evening. It is pretending that it will be hands-off, yet it has also said
    The federal government will have the right to replace GM's current board of directors with its own trustees, except for one director who will be picked by the Canadian government and another selected by a UAW-administered retiree health care trust.

    But the White House vowed to exercise its ownership stake in GM "in a hands-off, commercial manner." That is, to let it operate as a car company, not a government agency.


    Oh and BTW, for those who were counting, the government also announced that the $30 billion (yes, BILLION with a B) it is giving GM tomorrow to fund operations during the bankruptcy will be the last. Of course, once the horse is out of the barn... :-P

    And they are sticking with four brands. This thing would have much more chance of success if they were only keeping Chevy and Cadillac. Even then there would b no guarantees IMO.

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20090531/ANA04/905319980/1078
    (registration link)

    General Motors, the humbled auto giant that has been part of American life for more than 100 years, will file for bankruptcy protection on Monday in a deal that will give taxpayers a 60 percent ownership stake and expand the government's reach into big business.

    It would be the largest industrial bankruptcy in U.S. history, and the fourth-largest overall. In addition, a GM bankruptcy would be unprecedented as the federal government would pump billions more into the company.


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090601/ap_on_bi_ge/us_automakers

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • manegimanegi Member Posts: 110
    Interesting times. Finally what is good for GM will be good for the US (since it now owns GM).

    Also wonder how Ford shareholders will feel, as they (or their taxes) fund the competition while putting their savings in Ford stock.....
  • utgodmodeutgodmode Member Posts: 1
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    what to do if u hold GM stock?

    Should make decent toilet paper.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, they CAN do it in a hands-off manner. With shareholder value wiped out, the only ones who really have any equity in the company are the US and Canadian governments, plus the UAW and the bondholders. Bonds aren't voting stock, so they don't get to vote on board members, which means it sounds like the rest of those with ownership stakes are the ones choosing the board. That's normal business practice.

    Agreed on the four brands though....which four are they? That's still insane: even Chevy/Caddy/Buick/GMC (probably the ideal four) there's going to be duplication. In fact it would not surprise me to see Buick Aveos and Cruzes...or maybe GMC? That would actually be more laughable.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    wonder how Ford shareholders will feel, as they (or their taxes) fund the competition while putting their savings in Ford stock.....

    That was one reason I did not get real aggressive with my purchase of "F" stock when the price was $1.76. It will be tough competing if the tax payers keep handing money to the failed GM.

    Hopefully the bankruptcy court will get tough with the UAW. So far they have given up darn little in wages and benefits. Mostly shafted the retirees that have no vote.

    The only bright light I see is being able to shut down plants when cars are not selling. Before they were hard pressed to do that as they still had to pay the workers in the jobs bank. So if they happen to come up with a model that sells they can build them and shutter the other factories until they are needed.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    they were speculating on a possible purchase by Toyota of GM's share in NUMMI, the plant here in the Bay Area which builds Corollas, Tacomas, and until the bankruptcy built Vibes. Since Vibe production has ceased, one wonders if GM might not consider this an enticing bit of real estate to sell at a profit to Toyota. Apparently Toyota has made initial mutterings that it would be interested.

    And of course the other news of the morning is that with GM in bankruptcy as of this morning, it will no longer be a resident of the Dow Jones Industrial Average. Bankrupt companies get the boot from the Dow, it's part of the rules apparently.

    They are also busy announcing plant closures and idlings this morning. Word is that Spring Hill will be idled but not closed permanently, so the former Satrun plant will continue life in the future.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    AutoObserver is reporting that the Spring Hill plant will be closed "in a matter of months."

    "- Spring Hill, Tenn., also a relatively new plant that was built as a Saturn-exclusive operation but now builds the Chevrolet Traverse. Further, located not far outside of Nashville, the plant is in the backyard of U.S. Sen. Bob Corker, one of the harshest of GM's critics who opposed bailout of GM and Chrysler, suggesting they go through bankruptcy; " AutoObserver

    But it's early days and the kid may change his mind a few times. (Auto Task Force Led by 31-Year-Old During First Three Months of Existence - Inside Line).
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    they are sticking with four brands. This thing would have much more chance of success if they were only keeping Chevy and Cadillac.

    Yes, once again, they are doing too little too late. Until they get serious about this matter, they're only delaying the inevitable. There is no need for GMC - passenger cars.....GMC should be for big trucks, commercial grade trucks only. The other sales will go to Chevy most likely if GMC goes away. It's questionable that Buick is needed, given the product they offer. They are the Mercury of GM - who needs it? Only Lemko......
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Maybe Lemko will disown it when we see the Buick Aveo and Buick Cruze? :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    It's questionable that Buick is needed, given the product they offer. They are the Mercury of GM - who needs it? Only Lemko......

    Well, I gotta admit, that I do like the Buick Lucerne. Still, if Buick got the axe, and they rebadged the car as, say, a Chevy Caprice, I'd still be more or less happy. For the most part, cars these days have become essentially automotive Mr. Potato-heads, where their whole identity is wrapped up in a few minor trim pieces and such that are easily swappable.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Dow up 216 points. GM not dragging US down at all.

    Strong manufacturing data propelled U.S. stocks higher Monday, though renewed inflation fears continued to chill the bond market.

    Investors mostly shrugged off a landmark bankruptcy filing by General Motors, which has been expected for months. The troubled auto maker's share price and market capitalization long ago shriveled to the point that GM doesn't affect major stock indexes much, though its fate is still a factor for U.S. employment and consumer spending.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The question I would like to know is how much of the American Industrial sector did the Auto Industry fill? From the way the market is reacting to GM, I would say it was not much. My guess is the entire Auto industry in the USA is probably less than 20% of our manufacturing. Building and housing has to be far and away the biggest with military following that.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    I read where the U.S. is still the leader worldwide in Manufacturing output and volume, and it's not even close. The U.S. produces something like 21% of the total world's output. The auto industry makes up what, 1% of the gross national U.S. output? We're actually doing fine in the manufacturing sector.

    We're not in the automobile industry, though, obviously. :sick:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • senior5senior5 Member Posts: 2
    I'm a senior citizen and buy a new car every two or three years, Many have been GM and my last GM car was a 03 Corvette. I will NEVER buy another GM or Chrysler car made by the UAW and from a manufacture owned by the US government. The UAW together with terrible GM & Chrysler management have ruined the American auto industry. And now we are asked to support the losers? How will Ford ever compete with the billions that the government is giving GM & Chrysler? From now on my choices will first be Ford and then a US made car from foreign owned company.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I will still buy Cadillac and Buick automobiles as long as they're still made in the United States and Canada. The only thing that will destroy my loyalty to GM is if they just become an importer of crappy Chinese cars. From then on, my choices will be used GM cars, 2009 and earlier.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    Can't blame you senior5. I think a lot of people feel the same way.

    Ford will be fine against GM and Chrysler. Even with this bankruptcy filing and the government loans, Gm still needs to sell cars to survive. This bankruptcy only reduces their debt load in half and still leaves them with the problem of selling their existing mediocre cars in an extremely competitive market for a profit. Something they have not been able to do for 5 years. Ford has good products on the dealer's lot and does not have the stigma of accepting the bailout money. Plus they have a plan.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Really? What Ford cars are all that aside from the Mustang and the Mercury Grand Marquis? The Super Duty truck is alright if I owned my own oil refinery.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    The Focus is better than people give it credit
    The Fusion is a solid car and nothing to be ashamed of owning
    The Taurus is pretty nice
    The Fusion Hybrid will be here in a matter of months and get pretty close to Prius numbers
    The Edge and Flex have gotten good reviews. Not my taste but...
    The Escape Hybrid gets the best gas mileage of any SUV.

    Also Ford's reliability has improved dramatically over the past few years. hopefully their durability will increase as well (takes time to determine this).

    They still have some dogs in their lineup as well like the Explorer.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The MKZ is pretty nice too. Mustang, as you mentioned. Fusion, especially the hybrid (you might be more into the Mercury version though). Edge is heavy, but a very nice ride, which brings the MKX into play.

    I'd like to see them do a bit more with the Mustang platform when they can...make a higher end thing for Lincoln and Mercury, something to compete with the CTS. They might not have the luxury to do that for a while though. Maybe they could call it the Thunderbird...there's a name just waiting to be reborn the RIGHT way.

    Oh, and you forgot the Lincoln Town Car. :shades:
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    As per CnnMoney,GM has $172 Billion in debt.That is ridiculous.How can they make it up especially with their crappy cars?
    Why should the folks pay for the recklessness and lazy attitude of GM officials?
    GM should have been totally liquidated.Waste of taxpayers money.GM should learn from makers like Hyundai..Nobody yesterday,but today competitive .No excuse really.Absolutely pathetic in MHO !!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Can't get a Lincoln Town Car anymore except for special orders. Besides, the Town Car and Grand Marquis are dinosaurs. The Cadillac DTS is exponentially nicer and I'll take a Buick Lucerne over the Grand Marquis.

    The MKZ (stupid name, liked Zephyr much better) could've been a contender if they didn't cheap-out on it and kept the design closer to the much-prettier prototype.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd pay off all of GM's debt, own the company, and do things MY WAY!!! Old Henry Ford would have NOTHING on me! You see glorious Buicks, Cadillacs, and Chevrolets just like they were back in the 1950s and 1960s! Anybody who wants to work with me and grow this awesome new GM is welcome to follow me! Beancounters, spoiled talentless unmotivaterd privileged preppy execs, drunk and drug-addicted slacker workers need not apply!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, here's the thing. The DTS is/was made by a car company now in bankruptcy who hasn't made a profit in this century. The MKZ (I liked the Zephyr name better too) is made by a car company whose stock has doubled recently despite issuing new stock, has not needed bailouts, and may just be profitable soon.

    Someone's doing something right, and I'm betting it's not the company in BK. :shades: Though BK is the right thing for a company not doing things right.
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    I'm a senior citizen too and think Buick has got to do something with the Lucerne. GM did the right thing with a complete redesign of the 2010 Lacrosse. If they want Buick to survive, they've also got to redesign the Lucerne. BTW, I did my part to help our economy by purchasing a 2008 Lacrosse Super last year and I'm glad I did. I got a pretty nice looking car with V-8 power and very comfortable seats.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I agree. The Lucerne looks kind of old hat next to the redesigned LaCrosse. It's kind of like how the smaller Malibu is actually a nicer car than the bigger Impala.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    You see glorious Buicks, Cadillacs, and Chevrolets just like they were back in the 1950s and 1960s!

    So, drum brakes, AM radio, 10 MPG highway, no airbags, no seatbelts, and no EPA?

    Even with those advantages, the GM of today STILL couldn't manage to turn a profit! :shades:
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    This won't change anything for me either. I will continue to avoid GM products unless they come out with something I really like which is doubtful.

    The only GM vehicles I'd remotely consider owning would be a v6 Malibu, CTS, and maybe a Silverado. While the 2010 LaCrosse looks interesting, it's still a Buick and still has those stupid portholes (IM0). Did I say it's a Buick. Buick to me still means slow, floaty, ugly, grandpa mobiles whether they actually are or not. That said, I never say never, things can and do change, if GM builds something I like and I believe it won't fall apart (big if) I'll consider it. But Buick hasn't had a vehicle I'd consider sine 1987 and I bet you can guess what that might be.....GN.

    At this point, I like the direction Ford is moving in and I'd definitely look at Ford before a GM product. I've been happy with my '07 Expedition and have hated the last few GM vehicles we've had in our house. I like the 2010 Fusion better than a Malibu, and the 2010 Taurus looks real interesting. The upcoming Fiesta looks like it might get the attention of young buyers an area where GM has been getting killed for decades. The Edge (IMO) is a bit of a let down, but I think the Flex is cool, but maybe a bit to funky for a mainstream buying and it gets expensive quick. A completely redesigned Explorer is coming I believe which I think will be a crossover. The Expedition is better in a lot of ways than the Tahoe/Suburban, sales of large SUV's is probably going remain challenging.

    Lincoln and Mercury are still hurting. I'm not really won over by any Lincoln product, but overall it looks like Ford is on the right track.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, I'm extremely happy with my Cadillac DTS. Just because GM's hopefully soon to be unemployed and homeless management is a bunch of imbeciles doesn't mean all the cars are bad. The DTS is a great car despite those numbskulls in charge. Henderson should just resign and become a Sgt. Schultz impersonator for "Hogan's Heroes" fans. I'd rather see him play a fictional incompetent German soldier versus being a real-life incompetent CEO.
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    GM is like a terminal stage patient on life support--no chance of recovery but prolonging death in an agonizing manner. :sick:
    Why ,oh,why?End the misery as soon as possible.No point giving it more funds and then just hope and pray that it survives!! :confuse:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Kind of like Mercurys. They look like Buicks.

    Won't fall apart? Shoot, my girlfriend drives her LaCrosse like a NYC taxi driver and the car hasn't given us any trouble! Any car that can withstand her driving style has got to be extremely durable and reliable.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    " ...but prolonging death in an agonizing manner. "

    Shoot, that's what the remainder of my life is going to be like if I have no other choices but Ford and the imports!
  • jason330ijason330i Member Posts: 35
    i kinda like the new cadillac SRX. but it looks like it won't be built here.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I didn't say literally like the cars of the 1950s and 1960s, though I wouldn't mind seeing the EPA and all those Birkenstock-wearing, liberal, ex-hippie eco-weenies disappear off the planet.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I wouldn't mind seeing the EPA and all those Birkenstock-wearing, liberal, ex-hippie eco-weenies disappear off the planet.

    I'd mind. I happen to like oxygen in my air, and without them to counterbalance the raving lunatic 5 MPG V12 buying, soot spewing, ozone-destroying hogs that want to destroy the atmosphere so they can get rich selling bottled oxygen, we have problems.

    "It gets 100 miles per gallon...and it runs on WATER man!" :shades:
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Won't fall apart? Shoot, my girlfriend drives her LaCrosse like a NYC taxi driver and the car hasn't given us any trouble! Any car that can withstand her driving style has got to be extremely durable and reliable.

    Hey, just commenting based on experience. My Suburban was horrid and literally did start falling apart by 50k miles and my wife's current '07 Grand Prix has 50k mainly highway miles on it and it drives and feels like it's a 150k. It's an abomination. My 07 Expedition has 50k too and it feels like a brand new vehicle compared to the GP, it's still tight and quiet. I know they are apples and oranges, but in my experience GM vehicles (07 GP, 00 Suburban, and 01 Impala) start to feel old at an early age even though things may not break (well everything broke on the Suburban), the car just starts to feel like junk after about 2 years. The GP's front suspension is starting to clunk, the structure creaks and groans and it just drives like crap. I can drive the GP basically for free since it's company car and I still refuse to drive it for personal use. I gladly pay for the gas in the Expe and take it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Really my 1988 Buick Park Avenue still felt solid after 21 years. My 1989 Cadillac Brougham is still like a brand-new car.

    Maybe they didn't make the GP as solid as the LaCrosse, but Philadelphia streets often look like they were used for artillery practice and the LaCrosse is still as solid as granite.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    though I wouldn't mind seeing the EPA and all those Birkenstock-wearing, liberal, ex-hippie eco-weenies disappear off the planet.

    Now that's is something I can agree with you on. I just love the look on the faces of the Birkenstock-wearing Prius driver at the gas station when filling up my Expedition and boat at the same time. You'd think I ran over their dog! I usually get comments like "I'd hate to fill those up" etc. I usually reply "I love it, because it means I'm having fun with my kids" and that usually shuts them up.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Really my 1988 Buick Park Avenue still felt solid after 21 years.

    that's hard for me to believe, because I remember my grandpa's '97 and '00 Park Aves never feeling tight from the day they drove off the lot. My '00 Jetta felt like a bank vault in comparison.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I love to see that while fueling my 1989 Cadillac Brougham!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I love to see that while fueling my 1989 Cadillac Brougham!

    I'd imagine in the Brougham you could treat a Prius like a speed bump;)
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