GM is dumping the STS and replacing the sofamobile DTS with a new FWD-based AWD sofamobile based on the Lacrosse??!!
Cadillac's next flagship sedan, the XTS, will borrow its underpinnings from the Buick LaCrosse.
The XTS is the code name for the car due in 2011, and it's a two-for-one proposition. The XTS will replace the front-wheel drive DTS and the rear-wheel STS, Automotive News reports.
It goes on to say they are going ahead with a third car, smaller and less expensive than the CTS. It is reeeeallly hard to understand why it is they are moving the Cadillac brand CLOSER to the Buick brand (including the news that the new SRX is just a FWD platform clone like the Lexus RX), now that they have four less brands.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well, they don't have as many brands to overlap with now. That's all they know how to do and they're reverting back to their comfort zone. Anyone want to put money on seeing a Buick version of the Cruze if it ever sees the light of day?
I guess it makes sense to do platform mating between Chevy and Buick if they absolutely have to keep Buick. I just thought Cadillac was going to be different. Ten years later, I would say that except for the CTS the "reinvention of Cadillac" has resoundingly failed, and has been given up on if this latest Cadillac news is true.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I agree Cadillac failed to date. CTS is the one-trick pony.
We will see how top-notch Cdaillac becomes. As for Buick, it's a 'tweener brand that can only be a drain on both Caddy and Chevy. GMC makes no sense whatsoever because Chevy should be the value/premium truck brand. Now that I am part owner, I will look to fire the board if my money invested is not paid back. These 2 divisions must cease to exist. Caddy/Chevy should be the ultimate goal.
Now everyone ask the questions how the drain on GM will work. The answer is written all over GM's history. AFAIC, just looking at the recent future plans proves BAU.
Oh Boy, the new savior for GM, the Volt will get 230MPG! The true believers will love this and eat it up with no questions asked. Isn't this typical old style GM sales hype? Even if true , there's more to the story. Remember all the previous GM saviors? The GM diesel Olds, The Astek, The Fiero, the all new Cobalt that was just a warmed over cavalier? What was the last big GM game changer? The one that would drive imports back to their homeland? Ah , yes , the Vega. There's just No Reason to buy a Volt at any price when history has showed time and time again that GM can never get it right at the beginning and by the time they do get it right the products image is so bad it won't sell.Of course it's a very safe bet that the Japanese and now Korea will best the Volt in all catagories with 12 months, with better quality and prices. There's been no real change at GM and now they know the taxpayers are willing to subsidise their bad products, but not willing to buy them. To some , this is a victory? Stop. Look. GM died years ago. Bill C.
What this is is another case of designing a car specifically to do incredibly well in the EPA test above all else. Which is what caused problems with the last set of EPA ratings.
Probably gets that starting with a full charge, goes 200 miles on it, then goes another 30 miles by burning a single gallon of gas.
Of course, after that it gets 30 MPG, which is pitiful for a small-car hybrid-electric. :shades:
As for Buick, it's a 'tweener brand that can only be a drain on both Caddy and Chevy. GMC makes no sense whatsoever
I'm not sure right now. Everyone seems to make the assumption that a two line company is the right way to go because of the Asian model (Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura. Nissan/Infinity, etc.). However, there was a time not that long ago when mid level brands were very successful and popular. Lexus has been so successful that having cheaper products like the 350 hasn't dented their reputation on the expensive models. It didn't work out that way for Jaguar. I'm thinking that a solid mid level brand can be very profitable if marketed right. A successful Buick can increase margins over Chevy, while also allowing Cadillac to pursue a higher, and very profitable more exclusive price point. The real D3 problem arose from cookie cutter, look alike products that destroyed their identity and pricing power. Detroit went for volume over margins. Whether D3 can overcome those huge mistakes with names like Buick remains to be seen. One advantage for GM is that while Buick may be tarnished, its identity isn't near as messed up as Mercury or Dodge/Chrysler.
The negative perception of GM extends far beyond the recent event of them going bankrupt. The bankruptcy event was merely "icing on the cake".
Their problems started 35 years ago if not more. GM lives in their own world.
I'm just thankful that I wasn't old enough to be in the market for a car back then.. Being one who likes refined small cars, I might have been railroaded into buying a Pontiac Astre or something like that.
"One advantage for GM is that while Buick may be tarnished, its identity isn't near as messed up as Mercury or Dodge/Chrysler. " ______________________
I beg to differ. Almost no one would shed tears in the USA if Buick were to die. It's a huge brand in China, but so what; this is the United States. The market is much different here. China is the only reason GM kept the Buick brand.
But why does General Motors do these kind of things? I heard this is the same thing they did with the Cadillac Catera, which was actually a cosmetically engineered Opel from Germany. The car is a decent car as an Opel, but once GM got their hands on it, they ruined it. I don't understand.
But why does General Motors do these kind of things? I heard this is the same thing they did with the Cadillac Catera, which was actually a cosmetically engineered Opel from Germany. The car is a decent car as an Opel, but once GM got their hands on it, they ruined it. I don't understand.
The accountants had more say in the design of the vehicle than the engineers. This is why it took the Volt over a decade to become reality.
Good looking package - no substance It seems this new GM is following the practices of the old GM by over-hyping the product before it hits the market by making promises it will not and can not keep. I think they should turn the wick down on the hype, make sure the vehicle exceeds its intended targets, not merely meets as I think that would be viewed as failure, and follow the path of continuous improvement.
If they do what they normally did / do, hype it, get some suckers to buy it, don't improve the product and let it wither and die on the vine, then don't take it off the vine but just rename it something else, we're going to be re-upping the bailout.
Power grid No one has really addressed the current or future issues on the power grid and everything that comes with, mainly the increased electricity bills people / companies are going to have. The only talk of the power grid is that you can charge up at night when power usage is low. Well, if the majority are recharging at night, then usage will be up right? There goes the reserve capacity. And how does this effect a person's utility bill, other than it going up? Com Ed goes up every year just because, so add in this and it's either pay the electric or no lights and no car.
Then there is the recharge on-the-fly, i.e. plugging in at work or some other in-between stop in your daily commute. And what about traffic jams, long traffic times. I mean, most may be within its mileage range but that doesn't count traffic jams, long idling times (thinking I-94 / Kennedy, Elgin/Ohare and I-290 here, or even the 405 or 101 out west).
If the Volt is smart, it'll shut down automatically when you stop for a few seconds. That trick has been proposed for gassers as well. Press the gas in a traffic jam and your heavy duty starter will crank up and let you move forward 10 feet and then you'll get automatically shut down again.
I suppose they'll have to have an override for summer jams.
IMHO the 230 mpg is meaningless. You can't measure gas consumption for a car that is running 100% electric for the first 40 miles. Heck a golf cart or a Tesla gets INFINITE mpg!
The real question is what is the mileage once the battery is exhausted and the car is running by gas-electric off that gas engine? And what is the performance, noise, and driveability of the Volt in that conditiion? I have a feeling that there may be some bad news there, as the best power the car can ever get when on gas-electric is the performance of the relatively low hp engine.
he negative perception of GM extends far beyond the recent event of them going bankrupt. The bankruptcy event was merely "icing on the cake".
Their problems started 35 years ago if not more. GM lives in their own world.
Good point. They should have/should modify their name as it would do more to help than to hurt. Make a big point about the break from the past. Call themselves Phoenix (born from the ashes) Motors or at least New GM.
The statement "230 MPG" is not meaningless, it is just stated in the wrong units. As automobiles change, we're all going to have to convert to "miles per dollar" (MPD). Once in MPD, one can convert to whatever is desired. It would have been smarted to state "the equivalent of 230 MPG".
I think "the real question" is what is the Volt's mileage without using the gasoline engine. Once the gas engine comes on, the Volt resembles the Prius, somewhat, and the MPD will drop. I believe the real advantage of the Volt is the MPD savings using only the batteries and charging them with $0.10/KWHr electricity. The gas engine is just to keep one from getting stranded.
".....Of course, after that it gets 30 MPG, which is pitiful for a small-car hybrid-electric."
Well, one theory has that the EPA will drive it for it's full electric charge (40 miles) then continue on it's 11 mile standard trip. The car uses only .22 gallons of fuel to go a total of 51 miles 51/.22= 231.82 mpg. That equates to about 50 mpg with the gas engine.
My 87 YO Mom has a 2001 BPA. It is a great car. Unfortunately, the current Baby Boomers will not flock to Buick as in the past. I agree with many posters that the 2010 LaCrosse is a great car on paper and from the reviews, seems another good decision. I'm just not sure this should be a Caddy. I do not see the Buick stealing sales from Lexus and now Hyundai with the Genesis.
Four Divisions just does not makes sense when a company is downsizing from too many brands. The strategic focus is cumbersome supporting twice as many "divisions" as the competition.
After all, Toyota, Acura and Infinity did not go bankrupt.
A. What do you do in the typical crawl scenario, where you're just creeping along? B. It's summer & you have the A/C on, radio, possibly head-lights/ wiper when it's raining C. Winter, same scenario, except instead of A/C, heater? D. What about that HD starter - going through that multiple times a day, every day?
Know you don't have all those answers but these are things I just thought about off the top of the dome. Again, it just seems GM is promoting the 40 miles per charge, but not discussing the type of 40 miles those are, i.e. city driving where you make most if not all the lights, driving a never-used two lane, all down-hill driving.
Volt is the MPD savings using only the batteries and charging them with $0.10/KWHr electricity.
That would be nice if we could buy electricity for 10 cents per KWH. Here in San Diego the first 342 KWHs per month are $.1287 per KWH. It goes up dramatically after that. Topping out at about 35 cents per KWH when you reach 588 KWHs per month. That is just about my average with NO AC during the month. So if I added a Chevy Volt it would be an additional $5.60 per night to charge a 16 KWH battery. Good for 40 miles. Or about 20 MPG equivalent with our $2.85 gas today. So if you buy a Volt pull out the battery and toss it as you can get 30 MPG with just the engine.
As usual. GM is a day late and several bucks short.
I agree about the price, but unless battery prices come down, not much can be done about that, except for the $7500 credit.
In terms of fuel consumption, you're still wrong. A 100 mile round trip in a Prius will use 2 gallons, whereas the Volt w/o a recharge at work will use 1.2 gal. If you can recharge at work, then you would use just .4 gal roundtrip.
Now, I grant you, we haven't even begun to address what fuel is used to recharge the Volt (coal, ng, oil) and the cost ($2.75 per recharge), or what happens if gas stays at $2.50/gal., ALL of which weighs heavily on that $40K price tag. But I think that just the fact that this car will exist will feed the improvement of the battery technology, which will drive down the cost of the batteries, which will make the price of even regular electric vehicles more palateable.
I am starting to rethink this whole EV business. Unless a person can get 150 miles or more out of a 16 KWH battery it is a non starter. With 100 miles it is equal to a Prius with current gas prices. Add to that Obama's cap n trade and all of a sudden electric vehicles are not so economical.
You missed the problem, though. Electricity to charge the vehicle will be at the maximum rate since you'll easily hit over a thousand KWH a month. That brings it to ~$5 in California(give or take some) for 40 miles, or roughly $5 a gallon compared to a Prius or VW TDI.
Net result - it may use the equivalent of 1.2 gallons of fuel, but those "gallons" are twice as expensive. To quote the age-old engineering adage: There is no free lunch.(at $40K each, it's decidedly quite NOT free at that...)
BTW, people were making 40 mil range electric cars in their back yards in the 70s and 80s. That's basically lead-acid battery range and GM knows it. They're engineering 30+ year old technology into a fancy package and bilking the yuppies for $20K profit each compared to just using lead acid batteries and a small motorcycle engine.(some of the best put out ~30HP @ 70-80MPG)
The AC in the Prius will run without the AC, so if you are moving but creeping, maybe that 40 mile range in the Volt will translate to sitting in a traffic jam for 30 minutes with the accessories going before the juice runs out.
You are trickle charging the battery with the rooftop solar cells that whole time too, right?
But you have to start somewhere. Other companies may be chiding the Volt, but they sure aren't letting GM have this "plug in" category all to themselves.
Good chart. They don't mention the increase after you use a few KWH. SDG&E doubles after 342 KWHs in a month. Then goes up incrementally to the 35 cent top rate. All charging of a vehicle is going to be at the top rate unless you shut off the refrigerator and all utilities for the month. When you add Cap n Trade passed by Congress it will increase that rate by at least 25%. The national average low rate is double what GM claimed for their Volt cost analysis. They are being totally unrealistic with the Volt potential. Only someone with more money than brains would buy one.
But I think that just the fact that this car will exist will feed the improvement of the battery technology, which will drive down the cost of the batteries, which will make the price of even regular electric vehicles more palateable.
Of course GM could have used that rationale over 10 years ago with the EV1 and they would be the market leader by now!
They are being totally unrealistic with the Volt potential. Only someone with more money than brains would buy one.
The perfect customer is Grandma. She gives up her gas guzzling Buick for a Volt. She has a lot of money in the bank. She putzes to the supermarket and to the bingo club, well under 40 miles/day. She doesn't care that the car costs $40K. She's being green in her old age and Thelma and Beatrice are going to be very impressed when they all go out in the car for lunch! :P
Beat me to it. The thing is, it will "guzzle" enough electricity in a month to potentially more than quadruple your electric bill. ure, the first few hours is at the lower rate, but then it's all maximum.
And where I used to live in Los Angeles, the local power utility calculated my power based upon the size of the building no matter how many people were in it. This meant that they gave a family of three a maximum of about 150kwh(!!) and then ramped it up to maximum at about 250kwh(blatantly gouging but it's the only provider in the area....) I'd have been looking at least a $600 bill for an EV a month given their insane rates.
The answer is simple. On-board generation only and a micro-turbine or similar engine. No need to plug in since it would use batteries and/or capacitors. A true 100mpg would be quite easy to achieve.
Good chart. They don't mention the increase after you use a few KWH.
Yeah, I WISH I only paid 12.87 cents per KWH here in Maryland. My last bill came out to more like 17.3 cents per KWH. That chart might also just be for the electricity itself, and not the additional crap the utilities gouge you for. For instance, looking at my electric bill, the electric supply itself is "only" 12.715 cents per KWH. But then I get hit with another 4.07 cents per KWH with fees like distribution, something called "EmPower", Something called "RSP Chg/Misc Credit" which, despite having "credit" in its name, still ends up costing me money. Then they slap on two Maryland taxes, a franchise tax, and a local tax. And, on top of that, a flat $7.50 per month "Customer Charge". That's kind of a smack upside the head, IMO...they CHARGE me for being a customer. Most businesses would be grateful to have you as a customer, but since the utilities tend to monopolize things, I guess their attitude is be grateful they allow you to be a customer.
Now, that flat $7.50/mo charge stays the same, no matter how much electric you use. However, the other fees are all by the KWH.
For most of my weekly driving, the Volt would be ideal. I currently use a 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS for going to and from work and running errands and it's something of a pig for such purposes. With a Volt, I'd be using no gasoline all week. It's just that I wouldn't pay $40K for a Chevrolet Volt. Now, if they gussied it up a bit and turned it into a Buick Volt, they'd have my attention.
It's just that I wouldn't pay $40K for a Chevrolet Volt. Now, if they gussied it up a bit and turned it into a Buick Volt, they'd have my attention.
My understanding is that GM is considering a Cadillac version of the Volt.
I just pulled out my latest electric bill. My local provider is a co-op (which means I get a small rebate check every 6 months). The breakout of the charges looks like this:
Energy Delivery .02820/KWH Energy Purchase .05139/KWH Town Franchise Fee (cost of doing business where I live?) Sales Tax
For the month, I used 850 KWH, which is down from 1200 the previous year (the cool summer has meant that I haven't needed to run the A/C quite so much, apparently).
Article I read on Volt said that it would be ready for sale in late 2010. Article also said that testing for cold/hot weather needs to be done. One plus year away from sale and this kind of "significant" capability testing still to be done? And, what if testing shows needs for parts redesign? Can suppliers react quick enouth to changed specs to meet target date of intro?
Even if GM is lucky and can meet their late 2010 target, we taxpayers end up prroviding $7500 subsidy to buyers of Volt.
Lithium Ion battery technology is not the equivalent of lead acid battery technology. To imply that GM is marketing the new Volt battery as re-packaged 30 year old technology is just not true.
Granted, the Volt will not be for everybody. Where I live, electric power has been $.06 - $.10 for the last 40 years. I also have a solar plant generating approximately 1KW per day - small stuff. My idea is to add to this capacity and hopefully charge some vehicle like the Volt and cut down on the gas/electric bill.
If one had to fight stop and go traffic each day, keeping the AC on while stopped would obviously cut into that 40 miles. Again, where I live, my commute is 90% freeway for 24 miles - average speed is about 80 MPH. I believe the Volt or a car like it will work just fine for me.
Actually, a Caddy Volt isn't a bad idea at all. Spend a couple grand more on trim, sell it for maybe 45K - which is a lot easier to swallow than a 40K Chevy.
Using the algorithm developed by the United States Department of Energy, Nissan says that its upcoming Leaf electric vehicle would be rated at 367 mpg – and that’s without using any fuel since the car is 100 percent electric.
A Cadillac version of the Volt would certainly make more sense than the Lexus LS460h.
Huh? :confuse:
The LS460h is a full size luxury car, the Volt is an econobox. A cadillac version will be nothing more than Cimarron 2.0 and nowhere near the same class as the Lexus. Did you mean the HS250?
Agreed in the long term but in the short term the cost outweighs the benefit. GM should have started earlier and the cost would have been dropping already as your scenario quite accurately depicts.
Solar will be fine if you work the night shift. Charging your Volt during the day would work for you. A 1KWH solar system would still not get me out of the highest KWH bracket of 35 cents per KWH. A 2 KWH system would help. Still not cost effective in San Diego. Maybe with the new tax credits coming out.
Comments
Cadillac's next flagship sedan, the XTS, will borrow its underpinnings from the Buick LaCrosse.
The XTS is the code name for the car due in 2011, and it's a two-for-one proposition. The XTS will replace the front-wheel drive DTS and the rear-wheel STS, Automotive News reports.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090810/CARNEWS/908109995
It goes on to say they are going ahead with a third car, smaller and less expensive than the CTS. It is reeeeallly hard to understand why it is they are moving the Cadillac brand CLOSER to the Buick brand (including the news that the new SRX is just a FWD platform clone like the Lexus RX), now that they have four less brands.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
We will see how top-notch Cdaillac becomes. As for Buick, it's a 'tweener brand that can only be a drain on both Caddy and Chevy. GMC makes no sense whatsoever because Chevy should be the value/premium truck brand. Now that I am part owner, I will look to fire the board if my money invested is not paid back. These 2 divisions must cease to exist. Caddy/Chevy should be the ultimate goal.
Now everyone ask the questions how the drain on GM will work. The answer is written all over GM's history. AFAIC, just looking at the recent future plans proves BAU.
Regards,
OW
GM Claims Chevrolet Volt Gets 230 MPG City (AutoObserver)
Ad This Up: '230' Refers to Estimated EPA City Mileage Rating GM Expects For Volt (Green Car Advisor)
Probably gets that starting with a full charge, goes 200 miles on it, then goes another 30 miles by burning a single gallon of gas.
Of course, after that it gets 30 MPG, which is pitiful for a small-car hybrid-electric. :shades:
I'm not sure right now. Everyone seems to make the assumption that a two line company is the right way to go because of the Asian model (Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura. Nissan/Infinity, etc.). However, there was a time not that long ago when mid level brands were very successful and popular. Lexus has been so successful that having cheaper products like the 350 hasn't dented their reputation on the expensive models. It didn't work out that way for Jaguar. I'm thinking that a solid mid level brand can be very profitable if marketed right. A successful Buick can increase margins over Chevy, while also allowing Cadillac to pursue a higher, and very profitable more exclusive price point. The real D3 problem arose from cookie cutter, look alike products that destroyed their identity and pricing power. Detroit went for volume over margins. Whether D3 can overcome those huge mistakes with names like Buick remains to be seen. One advantage for GM is that while Buick may be tarnished, its identity isn't near as messed up as Mercury or Dodge/Chrysler.
Their problems started 35 years ago if not more. GM lives in their own world.
I'm just thankful that I wasn't old enough to be in the market for a car back then.. Being one who likes refined small cars, I might have been railroaded into buying a Pontiac Astre or something like that.
______________________
I beg to differ. Almost no one would shed tears in the USA if Buick were to die. It's a huge brand in China, but so what; this is the United States. The market is much different here. China is the only reason GM kept the Buick brand.
The accountants had more say in the design of the vehicle than the engineers. This is why it took the Volt over a decade to become reality.
Good looking package - no substance
It seems this new GM is following the practices of the old GM by over-hyping the product before it hits the market by making promises it will not and can not keep. I think they should turn the wick down on the hype, make sure the vehicle exceeds its intended targets, not merely meets as I think that would be viewed as failure, and follow the path of continuous improvement.
If they do what they normally did / do, hype it, get some suckers to buy it, don't improve the product and let it wither and die on the vine, then don't take it off the vine but just rename it something else, we're going to be re-upping the bailout.
Power grid
No one has really addressed the current or future issues on the power grid and everything that comes with, mainly the increased electricity bills people / companies are going to have. The only talk of the power grid is that you can charge up at night when power usage is low. Well, if the majority are recharging at night, then usage will be up right? There goes the reserve capacity. And how does this effect a person's utility bill, other than it going up? Com Ed goes up every year just because, so add in this and it's either pay the electric or no lights and no car.
Then there is the recharge on-the-fly, i.e. plugging in at work or some other in-between stop in your daily commute. And what about traffic jams, long traffic times. I mean, most may be within its mileage range but that doesn't count traffic jams, long idling times (thinking I-94 / Kennedy, Elgin/Ohare and I-290 here, or even the 405 or 101 out west).
Not trying to be a total basher but...
I suppose they'll have to have an override for summer jams.
The real question is what is the mileage once the battery is exhausted and the car is running by gas-electric off that gas engine? And what is the performance, noise, and driveability of the Volt in that conditiion? I have a feeling that there may be some bad news there, as the best power the car can ever get when on gas-electric is the performance of the relatively low hp engine.
Their problems started 35 years ago if not more. GM lives in their own world.
Good point. They should have/should modify their name as it would do more to help than to hurt. Make a big point about the break from the past. Call themselves Phoenix (born from the ashes) Motors or at least New GM.
I think "the real question" is what is the Volt's mileage without using the gasoline engine. Once the gas engine comes on, the Volt resembles the Prius, somewhat, and the MPD will drop. I believe the real advantage of the Volt is the MPD savings using only the batteries and charging them with $0.10/KWHr electricity. The gas engine is just to keep one from getting stranded.
Skeezix
And as intended, no one noticed.
Well, one theory has that the EPA will drive it for it's full electric charge (40 miles) then continue on it's 11 mile standard trip. The car uses only .22 gallons of fuel to go a total of 51 miles 51/.22= 231.82 mpg. That equates to about 50 mpg with the gas engine.
Four Divisions just does not makes sense when a company is downsizing from too many brands. The strategic focus is cumbersome supporting twice as many "divisions" as the competition.
After all, Toyota, Acura and Infinity did not go bankrupt.
I stick by my Chevy/Caddy mantra.
Regards,
OW
Simple.
Now, figure if its worth the $40K asking price. The Prius wins for anyone needing to cruise past 40 miles per day.
Regards,
OW
A. What do you do in the typical crawl scenario, where you're just creeping along?
B. It's summer & you have the A/C on, radio, possibly head-lights/ wiper when it's
raining
C. Winter, same scenario, except instead of A/C, heater?
D. What about that HD starter - going through that multiple times a day, every day?
Know you don't have all those answers but these are things I just thought about off the top of the dome. Again, it just seems GM is promoting the 40 miles per charge, but not discussing the type of 40 miles those are, i.e. city driving where you make most if not all the lights, driving a never-used two lane, all down-hill driving.
That would be nice if we could buy electricity for 10 cents per KWH. Here in San Diego the first 342 KWHs per month are $.1287 per KWH. It goes up dramatically after that. Topping out at about 35 cents per KWH when you reach 588 KWHs per month. That is just about my average with NO AC during the month. So if I added a Chevy Volt it would be an additional $5.60 per night to charge a 16 KWH battery. Good for 40 miles. Or about 20 MPG equivalent with our $2.85 gas today. So if you buy a Volt pull out the battery and toss it as you can get 30 MPG with just the engine.
As usual. GM is a day late and several bucks short.
In terms of fuel consumption, you're still wrong. A 100 mile round trip in a Prius will use 2 gallons, whereas the Volt w/o a recharge at work will use 1.2 gal. If you can recharge at work, then you would use just .4 gal roundtrip.
Now, I grant you, we haven't even begun to address what fuel is used to recharge the Volt (coal, ng, oil) and the cost ($2.75 per recharge), or what happens if gas stays at $2.50/gal., ALL of which weighs heavily on that $40K price tag. But I think that just the fact that this car will exist will feed the improvement of the battery technology, which will drive down the cost of the batteries, which will make the price of even regular electric vehicles more palateable.
Net result - it may use the equivalent of 1.2 gallons of fuel, but those "gallons" are twice as expensive. To quote the age-old engineering adage: There is no free lunch.(at $40K each, it's decidedly quite NOT free at that...)
BTW, people were making 40 mil range electric cars in their back yards in the 70s and 80s. That's basically lead-acid battery range and GM knows it. They're engineering 30+ year old technology into a fancy package and bilking the yuppies for $20K profit each compared to just using lead acid batteries and a small motorcycle engine.(some of the best put out ~30HP @ 70-80MPG)
You are trickle charging the battery with the rooftop solar cells that whole time too, right?
The HD starters are holding up well I think.
http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/115.htm
But you have to start somewhere. Other companies may be chiding the Volt, but they sure aren't letting GM have this "plug in" category all to themselves.
Of course GM could have used that rationale over 10 years ago with the EV1 and they would be the market leader by now!
The perfect customer is Grandma. She gives up her gas guzzling Buick for a Volt. She has a lot of money in the bank. She putzes to the supermarket and to the bingo club, well under 40 miles/day. She doesn't care that the car costs $40K. She's being green in her old age and Thelma and Beatrice are going to be very impressed when they all go out in the car for lunch! :P
And where I used to live in Los Angeles, the local power utility calculated my power based upon the size of the building no matter how many people were in it. This meant that they gave a family of three a maximum of about 150kwh(!!) and then ramped it up to maximum at about 250kwh(blatantly gouging but it's the only provider in the area....) I'd have been looking at least a $600 bill for an EV a month given their insane rates.
The answer is simple. On-board generation only and a micro-turbine or similar engine. No need to plug in since it would use batteries and/or capacitors. A true 100mpg would be quite easy to achieve.
No argument here. But dere wuz money to be made in dem dere trucks!!!
Yeah, I WISH I only paid 12.87 cents per KWH here in Maryland. My last bill came out to more like 17.3 cents per KWH. That chart might also just be for the electricity itself, and not the additional crap the utilities gouge you for. For instance, looking at my electric bill, the electric supply itself is "only" 12.715 cents per KWH. But then I get hit with another 4.07 cents per KWH with fees like distribution, something called "EmPower", Something called "RSP Chg/Misc Credit" which, despite having "credit" in its name, still ends up costing me money. Then they slap on two Maryland taxes, a franchise tax, and a local tax. And, on top of that, a flat $7.50 per month "Customer Charge". That's kind of a smack upside the head, IMO...they CHARGE me for being a customer. Most businesses would be grateful to have you as a customer, but since the utilities tend to monopolize things, I guess their attitude is be grateful they allow you to be a customer.
Now, that flat $7.50/mo charge stays the same, no matter how much electric you use. However, the other fees are all by the KWH.
It's just that I wouldn't pay $40K for a Chevrolet Volt. Now, if they gussied it up a bit and turned it into a Buick Volt, they'd have my attention.
My understanding is that GM is considering a Cadillac version of the Volt.
I just pulled out my latest electric bill. My local provider is a co-op (which means I get a small rebate check every 6 months). The breakout of the charges looks like this:
Energy Delivery .02820/KWH
Energy Purchase .05139/KWH
Town Franchise Fee (cost of doing business where I live?)
Sales Tax
For the month, I used 850 KWH, which is down from 1200 the previous year (the cool summer has meant that I haven't needed to run the A/C quite so much, apparently).
Even if GM is lucky and can meet their late 2010 target, we taxpayers end up prroviding $7500 subsidy to buyers of Volt.
Granted, the Volt will not be for everybody. Where I live, electric power has been $.06 - $.10 for the last 40 years. I also have a solar plant generating approximately 1KW per day - small stuff. My idea is to add to this capacity and hopefully charge some vehicle like the Volt and cut down on the gas/electric bill.
If one had to fight stop and go traffic each day, keeping the AC on while stopped would obviously cut into that 40 miles. Again, where I live, my commute is 90% freeway for 24 miles - average speed is about 80 MPH. I believe the Volt or a car like it will work just fine for me.
Skeezix
Using the algorithm developed by the United States Department of Energy, Nissan says that its upcoming Leaf electric vehicle would be rated at 367 mpg – and that’s without using any fuel since the car is 100 percent electric.
:shades:
Huh? :confuse:
The LS460h is a full size luxury car, the Volt is an econobox. A cadillac version will be nothing more than Cimarron 2.0
Regards,
OW
Good ol' GM allright...