the Elantra and Civic whooped its butt in a comparo.
Except in styling. The Elantra and Civic are like two homely girls with nice personalities and are great cooks, but I'd rather have the Cruze which is like the cute pretty girl who's a lot more fun to be with.
They aren't going to lay off people, but the idea that they sold the politicians that they would continue building NEW plants, well, there's no incentive, really. And a lot of political pressure at home to build there.
So you are saying that Hyun/Kia got tax incentives not to just build existing plants, but because they committed to building ADDITIONAL NEW PLANTS? Please point me at that data. If it were true then I'd say the fault was the government offering the incentives. Any company would take that if there was no contractual requirement.
They committed to nothing, at least not on paper. But you know that they had to promise something like that to the politicians to get it passed. The politicians don't care either way as they get money through PACs and donors and U.S. corporations that were for it as well.
The Cruze certainly looks less Asian insect-like than other small cars. When I think of "Korean" styling, I think of styling that is "cut off" at the back, has silly swoops down the side and chrome trim, and big ugly emblems (the gold bowtie is classy in comparison).
I always thought the '07 Ford Focus went for the entry-level Korean look, with the sweep line down the side and phony chrome vent in the front fender. I'm glad they removed that latter item after a couple years.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
"A 'culture of excellence' focused on manufacturing cost reduction and led to such dismal results as the early front-wheel-drive cars and the whole plastic bodied Saturn line," writes Lutz. "The system created research-driven, focus-group-guided, customer-optimized transportation devices, hamstrung in countless ways ... Designers were now reduced to the equivalent of choosing the font for the list of ingredients on a tube of Crest."
Deep-seated cultural problems also rose to the surface, including corporate hubris ( "We know what's best, no matter what others are doing"); exaggerated respect for higher authority: ("Everything said by the CEO and other senior leaders [was accepted ] as infallible gospel"); and a tendency to stifle debate and put off decisions until they were studied to death.
Lutz also helped free GM from its lowest common denominator approach to product development. Made public here for the first time is the "hider" technique that GM used on interiors, where the corners of adjacent plastic pieces were rounded off so customers wouldn't notice if they were misaligned. So is the specification that GM paint be purposely dulled down so it wouldn't show dust in the finish and other defects. Lutz also consigned to oblivion obsolete designs standards like ashtrays that functioned at 40 degrees below zero but couldn't be opened with a brick. Or the rule that called for wheels tucked under the body to reduce damage to the paint when driving on gravel roads. "That might have been a major issue in the 1930s, but it was easily solved by applying anti-stone chip primer. It's universally used, and it's not rocket science."
I actually like the styling of the Hyundai, I've been seeing tons of them on the road lately. Around here I see a new Elantras far more than the Focus or Cruze (maybe they stand out more I don't know). I also like the look of the Cruze too, though it's borderline to conservative for my tastes. But it certianly doesn't affend me in anyway.
The Civic is the one I really don't care for inside and out. I don't know what's going on at Honda. Seems they are lost in the styling department.
I really don't care for the over-done style of the Hyundai Sonata, but I have to say, I think the look works on the Elantra. I think the shape of the headlights is more attractive. One thing I don't care for though, is the overly-flared fenders, which make me think of the old days of narrower, taller hoodlines and bolt-on fenders.
I gotta disagree man, that is a great looking car IMO. It's not Ferrari beautiful by any means but for a segment with some decent looking cars (Civic coupe, Lancer, Mazda 3), I'm impressed with Hyundais unique styling direction. The Snuze is bland to me, more like a Corolla wannabe.
The Elantra has a neutral styling to it, especially compared to boy-racer look of the Sonata. Amazing the previous Sonata design was very good looking from the rear. IIRC the front was not as good.
But I learned in Art Appreciation class required in college that items should look like what they are. No hula girls shapes with rotating hips with little grass skirts on the base of the lamp--instead it should look like a lamp. The Sonata is a hula lamp.
For certain, I thought GM would just run it into the ground like they did Saab and Isuzu... there must be nothing left to pillage so it's time to cut them loose...
I too think the Elantra wears the swoopy for the sake of swoopy style better than the overdone Sonata. If you want it really odd, find a Sonata hybrid - styled at a Braille school.
This is exactly what happens when you hire artists and designers from the same half dozen design schools (per region) and then throw them into an almost vertical corporate environment.
Everyone's jellybean looks the same because they are all taught the same things. The kids don't think any more. They got through school largely on their ability to memorize and take tests, and not on their creativity. So when they get to design school, they do exactly what is required, believe what is told to them by the same mere handful of professors (as to what is correct and "proper" to do in art, almost as if it is engineering or math) and you get this as the end result. Cookie-cutter educations and cookie-cutter designs.
I actually looked at the Optima and Forte last Sunday. The salesman proudly told me they had 3 Optimas left. It was nicely styled compared to it's Hyunday rival. The interior was less than spectacular. The Forte is spartan and knowing how the Koup rides, I would have to think long and hard before even test driving one.
Nice find! I wasn't aware that he's got a new book, which I'll definitely pick up.
AFAIC, Lutz was the best thing that happened to GM. He doesn't BS around, he did wonders to bring back Chrysler around in the early '90s, and without him, the Viper wouldn't have gone into production. At GM, he's largely responsible for some of their best products in years (Malibu, Equinox, CTS), as well as sportier offerings (G8, Solstice, CTS-V, Camaro).
He's a true car guy, and IMO that's what's needed to have a good car company.
Forte is certainly a cheap car - price matters more than any other part of it. I don't doubt a Cruze is nicer inside - but you pay for it. I don't know if they really even directly compete, Cruze looks larger too, at least to the naked eye.
Optima should be every bit a success as the Sonata - especially with how much better it looks.
Motor Trend mag wasn't impressed...At $25k I don't see much value...I will drive a gas hog and enjoy life..Payback on feeding a Cruze is probably 20 yrs..I am happy with the 20mpg, city driving, a/c running and sunroof open..Open highway, 24mpgs @ 80+, a/c running, screw the 40 mpg promise, it's a Govt promise and we know how they work!!!!!!!!
Out of the top 10 highest models for fatalities, GM and Nissan have 4 each! Yikes, at least a few of those models have been replaced. I wonder if that will change the results down the road.
Or maybe drivers of Nissan and GM vehicles can't drive?
Both the Lucerne and Lacrosse are on the highest death list. But that could be due to the fact that from 06-09 the average buyer of these vehicles were a heart beat away from dying of old age.
It's not just that they have so many vehicles on the Highest side of the list, but they have 0, Nada on the Lowest side of the list; with the exclusion of a not-really GM-Saab.
I had an accident last year where I got T-Boned; an 84 year old woman in a Chevy Cavalier. I'm not surprised that despite the Buick's size that they made the list. The stereotypes do fit, in those cases.
Or maybe drivers of Nissan and GM vehicles can't drive?
Gee, I thought it was drivers of Toyota vehicles that couldn't drive. Toyota itself said so. Those incidents of uninteneded acceleration weren't their fault!
Gee, I thought it was drivers of Toyota vehicles that couldn't drive. Toyota itself said so. Those incidents of uninteneded acceleration weren't their fault!
I thought most Toyota drivers were GM customers at one time;) So I guess your right;)
I find Hyundai-Kia's styling as designs from emotionally disturbed space aliens who are smoking crack rocks the size of boulders and blunts and big as telephone poles.
A sale is a sale. Odds are Elantra passes the Cruze very soon.
One is boring and one is not. Let's call the rest equal. Interesting how GM all of a sudden has winner, however. It sure cost a lot of money and a record-breaking natural disaster to help the Old General, didn't it? :surprise:
I don't know if I would call an Elantra "not boring"...I can call it "different", but in the end, it's still a blandbox, just covered with pointless swoops.
So, buyers will have the option of significantly improved fuel economy or horsepower – two highly desirable traits. Of course, there's a catch. Last year's base LaCrosse, which carried with it an MSRP of $26,995, is no longer available. That means the least expensive LaCrosse for 2012 is about $3,000 more than it was in 2011
Besides, GM is going to price itself to lower sales in the US anyway.
The new Civic is here...I've seen a few on the streets so they're definitely available for sale.
Let's see how the segment shakes out. I like the idea of the Cruze Eco offering decent room and 42mpg (wow), but I wonder if limiting that to one expensive model will hurt Chevy in the long-run.
The Malibu Classic, or "Classic" as it was simply known, was the old 1997 era Malibu built as a fleet only car. I've seen how people drive rentals and am not surprised there would be fatalities.
Some posters love grasping at any straws just to make GM look bad. If they're such fanboys of imports, why don't they create their own topic like "Hyundai Is God" instead of trolling in here? It really makes it unpleasant for those who are looking for genuine GM news just to see a few misguided posters bashing them at every turn. You don't see me or some of the other domestic fans in here in the import forums calling them junk.
Comments
So one month makes you the best seller in the country now?
Strange, Inside Line didn't care for the Cruze much, as the Elantra and Civic whooped its butt in a comparo.
Except in styling. The Elantra and Civic are like two homely girls with nice personalities and are great cooks, but I'd rather have the Cruze which is like the cute pretty girl who's a lot more fun to be with.
Daewoo Lacetti (aka Chevrolet Cruze) hits the Korean market
So you are saying that Hyun/Kia got tax incentives not to just build existing plants, but because they committed to building ADDITIONAL NEW PLANTS? Please point me at that data. If it were true then I'd say the fault was the government offering the incentives. Any company would take that if there was no contractual requirement.
GM also hasn't been blessed with any intelligent CEO's for about......40 years.
I always thought the '07 Ford Focus went for the entry-level Korean look, with the sweep line down the side and phony chrome vent in the front fender. I'm glad they removed that latter item after a couple years.
"A 'culture of excellence' focused on manufacturing cost reduction and led to such dismal results as the early front-wheel-drive cars and the whole plastic bodied Saturn line," writes Lutz. "The system created research-driven, focus-group-guided, customer-optimized transportation devices, hamstrung in countless ways ... Designers were now reduced to the equivalent of choosing the font for the list of ingredients on a tube of Crest."
Deep-seated cultural problems also rose to the surface, including corporate hubris ( "We know what's best, no matter what others are doing"); exaggerated respect for higher authority: ("Everything said by the CEO and other senior leaders [was accepted ] as infallible gospel"); and a tendency to stifle debate and put off decisions until they were studied to death.
Lutz also helped free GM from its lowest common denominator approach to product development. Made public here for the first time is the "hider" technique that GM used on interiors, where the corners of adjacent plastic pieces were rounded off so customers wouldn't notice if they were misaligned. So is the specification that GM paint be purposely dulled down so it wouldn't show dust in the finish and other defects. Lutz also consigned to oblivion obsolete designs standards like ashtrays that functioned at 40 degrees below zero but couldn't be opened with a brick. Or the rule that called for wheels tucked under the body to reduce damage to the paint when driving on gravel roads. "That might have been a major issue in the 1930s, but it was easily solved by applying anti-stone chip primer. It's universally used, and it's not rocket science."
Car Guys vs. Bean Counters
And you wonder why the competition helped bury the walking-dead GM. Now we will see if the diseases have been eliminated or are only hybrinating!
Regards,
OW
So you like it then :P
Just because you can stamp metal into all those distorted shapes doesn't mean you should.
The Civic is the one I really don't care for inside and out. I don't know what's going on at Honda. Seems they are lost in the styling department.
The Mazda 3 doesn't look too bad, but I don't care for the hatchback configuration.
But I learned in Art Appreciation class required in college that items should look like what they are. No hula girls shapes with rotating hips with little grass skirts on the base of the lamp--instead it should look like a lamp. The Sonata is a hula lamp.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
link title
I too think the Elantra wears the swoopy for the sake of swoopy style better than the overdone Sonata. If you want it really odd, find a Sonata hybrid - styled at a Braille school.
Everyone's jellybean looks the same because they are all taught the same things. The kids don't think any more. They got through school largely on their ability to memorize and take tests, and not on their creativity. So when they get to design school, they do exactly what is required, believe what is told to them by the same mere handful of professors (as to what is correct and "proper" to do in art, almost as if it is engineering or math) and you get this as the end result. Cookie-cutter educations and cookie-cutter designs.
The Cruze makes it look cheap.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
AFAIC, Lutz was the best thing that happened to GM. He doesn't BS around, he did wonders to bring back Chrysler around in the early '90s, and without him, the Viper wouldn't have gone into production. At GM, he's largely responsible for some of their best products in years (Malibu, Equinox, CTS), as well as sportier offerings (G8, Solstice, CTS-V, Camaro).
He's a true car guy, and IMO that's what's needed to have a good car company.
I'm sure it spent time in a wind tunnel and has less aero drag than its predecessor.
Nowadays the headlights and front fenders direct wind around the side mirrors to reduce wind noise.
The creases on the doors make the doors stronger.
Etc.
I'm sure there's plenty of function in the style, and BTW I think it looks fine for it class, essentially a bunch of dull small sedans.
Personally I think the Cruze looks OK, but others call it the Snooze. GM certainly didn't take many risks.
Optima should be every bit a success as the Sonata - especially with how much better it looks.
Out of the top 10 highest models for fatalities, GM and Nissan have 4 each! Yikes, at least a few of those models have been replaced. I wonder if that will change the results down the road.
Or maybe drivers of Nissan and GM vehicles can't drive?
Both the Lucerne and Lacrosse are on the highest death list. But that could be due to the fact that from 06-09 the average buyer of these vehicles were a heart beat away from dying of old age.
I had an accident last year where I got T-Boned; an 84 year old woman in a Chevy Cavalier. I'm not surprised that despite the Buick's size that they made the list. The stereotypes do fit, in those cases.
Gee, I thought it was drivers of Toyota vehicles that couldn't drive. Toyota itself said so. Those incidents of uninteneded acceleration weren't their fault!
I'm sure this is sheer coincidence, but the ones complaining about runaway Toyotas tended to be up there in age, too.
OK, enough picking on grandpa, if we're lucky we'll all reach that point some day. Just remind me to buy non-slip soles.
I thought most Toyota drivers were GM customers at one time;) So I guess your right;)
Then Japan says it wants to close a US military base.
All hell breaks loose. NHTSA leader tells people to park their Toyotas, even though his daughter drives one.
Oops, Japan is sorry, you can keep the military base open.
Complaints plunge 96% per CR May 2011, p. 16. NHTSA chief calls Toyotas "safe to drive".
Edmunds.com offers one million dollars for any proof that SUA was caused by electronics, no takers, offer expires a year later.
That sums it up nicely.
This is a GM thread so let's keep Toyota out of it from now on.
I find Hyundai-Kia's styling as designs from emotionally disturbed space aliens who are smoking crack rocks the size of boulders and blunts and big as telephone poles.
Elantra #1 and #2 on movers list:
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2011/06/movers-and-losers-may-2011.html?utm_s- - ource=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+cars%2Fkickingtires+%28Kic- - king+Tires%29
Goes to show everyone has their own opinion, but people are lining up to disagree with you.
Sonata Hybrid is #4.
Camaro leads GM models at #16, so still hot.
Way to go Chevy! Chevy runs deep alright...6 feet under deep!
Ya make junk, you die by junk. At least Caddy wasn't on the list!
But I was surprised that 2 Buicks showed up. Perhaps GM should add more air bags?? :confuse:
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
The Cobalt was discontinued. Malibu Classic? Is that in Canada or something?
Colorado is half Isuzu leftovers, sort of.
You said it, though, the Buicks are the surprises.
Any how, I disagree, it's a stand out in a boring segment, and buyers have noticed and are lining up.
I guess in the case of the overstyled Hyundais, they are loud enough to get noticed, but not hated.
One is boring and one is not. Let's call the rest equal. Interesting how GM all of a sudden has winner, however. It sure cost a lot of money and a record-breaking natural disaster to help the Old General, didn't it? :surprise:
Regards,
OW
I don't know if I would call an Elantra "not boring"...I can call it "different", but in the end, it's still a blandbox, just covered with pointless swoops.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/08/buick-lacrosse-with-eassist-priced-from-29-96- 0/
It'll be interesting to see which ones consumers tend towards. I think I'd go for the 303hp...
Lots of high selling cars of the past weren't exactly pretty.
So, buyers will have the option of significantly improved fuel economy or horsepower – two highly desirable traits. Of course, there's a catch. Last year's base LaCrosse, which carried with it an MSRP of $26,995, is no longer available. That means the least expensive LaCrosse for 2012 is about $3,000 more than it was in 2011
Besides, GM is going to price itself to lower sales in the US anyway.
Regards,
OW
Let's see how the segment shakes out. I like the idea of the Cruze Eco offering decent room and 42mpg (wow), but I wonder if limiting that to one expensive model will hurt Chevy in the long-run.
Not interested in sedans. At all. Equinox, Spark, Camaro Convertible would be more likely to make my test drive list.
Cars w/ the lowest and highest death rates. Would these change your car-shopping list? (via @IIHS_autosafety) http://edmu.in/mmFuAI (pdf file).
Some posters love grasping at any straws just to make GM look bad. If they're such fanboys of imports, why don't they create their own topic like "Hyundai Is God" instead of trolling in here? It really makes it unpleasant for those who are looking for genuine GM news just to see a few misguided posters bashing them at every turn. You don't see me or some of the other domestic fans in here in the import forums calling them junk.
I was just posting some news I found interesting which pertained to GM. I didn't selectively pick on GM, I also included Nissan.