I would like to see performance cars as two-door hardtops, but it's never going to happen in this day and age. The closest we get nowadays is pillared coupes masquerading as hardtops such as the Mustang, Camaro, and Charger. I do like that SS that was mentioned a couple of posts back.
The Impala name has also been diluted since about 2000. My wife's old car should've been called a Bel Air or a Biscayne as it was only a six-cylinder and didn't have the proper six taillights. The Impala name should've been reserved for the V-8 performance versions.
I never really liked the name Polara, either. To me, it conjures up images of something porky.
I actually liked the name Matador. However, Dodge only used it for one year, 1960, and most people today would associate it with AMC, and probably not the best years, either! And, in today's worlds, it's probably politically incorrect!
As for today's Impala, IMO they should have called it Malibu, and reserved the name Impala for a true full-sized car. But, like big muscular coupes, true full-sized cars don't sell anymore.
The current Impala is okay if you want something that's fairly cheap, fairly reliable, and fairly economical, and by today's standards, large. But, I just don't think there's anything special about it...nothing that really makes it competitive. Hopefully the 2014 Impala will change all that.
Don't really care for the current Impala's "Return of the Lumina" styling either. The current car looks like it would meet my needs as an everyday "beater car" like my Grand Marquis, but it's nothing I'd be proud to be seen in like a Cadillac. Back in the day, a 1970 Impala Custom two-door hardtop was so nice, I wouldn't even need to consider something more upscale. Hopefully, the new model will bring back a little of that cachet.
Back in the day, a 1970 Impala Custom two-door hardtop was so nice, I wouldn't even need to consider something more upscale. Hopefully, the new model will bring back a little of that cachet.
Throughout most of those years, even though it started playing second fiddle to the Caprice, I still thought the Impala was a nice enough car for my needs. And I usually preferred the styling of the Impala, as it was often a bit cleaner, and less fussy/pretentious than the Caprice.
I really liked my grandparents' '72 Impala 4-door hardtop a lot. I remember asking Granddad, when I was about 8, to hold onto it so I could have it when I turned 16. Unfortunately, he just laughed and said that the car would be long-since rusted away by that time. This was around 1978, and even then I remember the spring ritual of Granddad slapping Bondo on the lower fenders, and getting out the forest green spraypaint can...
I almost choked when I read this! How stupid is this?
Opel isn't the only bad deal of GM's old management that Akerson is trying to unwind. He says GM's decision to spin off tech firm EDS in 1996 meant, in effect, that it was handing its information technology management to an outsider. He recently described it as one of the worst moves GM has made in the past 30 years, because GM is trying to operate with a 1970s computer system that affects design, engineering, payroll, and dealer relations.
No wonder they act like they're still in the Malaise Era...that's where their infrastructure is! It's probably built into the software...as a "feature." :shades:
"For the second month in a row, a new General Motors product tops the list of fastest-selling vehicles. For July, it was the just-launched Chevrolet Spark minicar; in June, it was the flagship Cadillac XTS sedan."
I don't know... ED'S seems to be a boat anchor to any company that buys them. IIRC, HP is taking a multi-billion $$$$ loss/write-down due to EDS, and they've only owned it since around 2008.
By the definition given there, of the average number of days a vehicle sits on a dealer lot, wouldn't the monthly winner be an MTO (made-to-order) vehicle? Since it is usually a new vehicle, and thus supply is very limited, and there is no minimum required - Mayback would qualify. Wouldn't Maybach win that each month, or are the buyers of those procrastinators; and just let them sit around while enjoying their existing Rolls?
He recently described it as one of the worst moves GM has made in the past 30 years, because GM is trying to operate with a 1970s computer system that affects design, engineering, payroll, and dealer relations.
In 2012, this simply doesn't pass the common-sense test...as a believable statement. I rank it right up with the 'Mitt helped kill my wife' commercial on TV.
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What??? Believe what you like. GM is still a broken brand. :lemon:
General Motors Co. chairman and CEO Dan Akerson has vowed to end company "fiefdoms" as he remakes the automaker's global structure.
"We're a global company that operates as small, little fiefdoms. That's got to stop," Akerson told employees during a recent global town hall meeting. "That contributes to this silo effect or perception."
GM is reshaping the company's long-entrenched focus on regions — North America, Europe and International Operations — dubbed "legal entities" by Akerson. Instead, he wants a structure that allows GM to take advantage of global scale and authority, and many operations would be more centralized, such as marketing, purchasing and global development.
GM is also implementing a new accounting system.
This is the BEST!!
The company needs a new information technology system — the existing one is so bad the automaker, until six months ago, had lost track of some of its 200,000 employees worldwide.
"We didn't know what they were doing," Akerson said.
I think Akerson believes! :P In restructuring GM, Akerson also is looking to simplify the company.
He noted GM has 30 different door latches for its vehicle lineup, while Toyota has five.
GM had 23 data centers; most companies have two to four.
"We can't just rely on vice presidents and executive directors. We need people on the assembly line. We need everybody pulling in the same direction."
Jeremy Anywl, vice chairman of Edmunds.com, said Akerson needs to assess his leadership style. He contrasted it with Ford Motor Co. CEO Alan Mulally.
"No one would argue that the culture doesn't need to change," Anywl said.
"It's not about telling people to do things. It's about inspiring and creating cohesive teamwork and getting everyone working off the same play sheet."
“Everyone knows that the changes need to be made,” said Dennis Virag, president of Automotive Consulting Group Inc. in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
Well, not everyone believes changes need to be made. Particularly those diehards!
Akerson’s efforts are hampered by the company’s size, history, complexity and his own lack of manufacturing experience, he said. The CEO, a Navy veteran, has mostly worked in telecommunications and private equity.
Randy Arickx, a GM spokesman, declined to comment.
Akerson hired Randy Mott as chief information officer in February and tasked him with overhauling the company’s old IT systems. Mott has said he wants to in-source thousands of jobs as part of an effort to give the automaker greater flexibility for innovation.
In 2012, this simply doesn't pass the common-sense test...as a believable statement. I rank it right up with the 'Mitt helped kill my wife' commercial on TV.
Also, the flat statement that GM has a "'70's computer system" to run the company is about as believable as the oft-repeated comment here that "...GM won't do warranty work on pre-bankruptcy vehicles".
Sheesh.
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You haven't worked for one of these old, large companies. I believe it completely. I spent 4 years at IBM and can categorically say they have a 70s computer system. In fact, that may be being generous.
WHAT???? OK, try these statements and let us know what you think:
Akerson also told workers the company is behind competitors on engine and transmission technology.
What say you?
GM has six-speed automatic transmissions when competitors have up to 10 gears, he said. Transmissions with more gears allow engines to do less work, saving fuel.
Also Thursday, Akerson told employees: — GM is hurt by its complexity, saying it has too many parts compared with its competitors.
What do you think about that? :confuse:
For example, he said the company has 30 different door latches while rival Toyota has only five. "It's a big deal," he said. "That's just the tip of the iceberg." — GM has invested in a battery company that has breakthrough technology to take electric cars at least 100 miles on a single charge within two years, and there's better than a 50-50 chance that that the cars will be able to go 200 miles per charge. GM's current electric car, the Chevy Volt, goes about 35 miles (56 kilometers) on a charge and has a small gas motor that generates power to keep the car going after that. Few competitors have electric cars with more than 100 miles (160 kilometers) of range. Tesla Motors' Model S can go up to 300 miles (480 kilometers), but it has a much larger battery and can cost more than twice as much as a Volt.
Sounds like Ackerson is a GM-Basher! What nerve he has!
Follow the leaders that are World Standards. NOT GM.
There is no doubt that GM isn't done being fixed yet. They were by far the biggest, among the oldest, and had the farthest to fall. It won't be an overnight thing.
But I truly think that if somebody doesn't at least look at a GM product when they shop, and compare price (and I mean out-the-door price, not only sticker), warranty, domestic content (and not just cherry-picking this one model or that one model), styling (IMHO), and is able to admit it's more of an American company than the imports, and it employs far more Americans, it's really too bad. Of course, it's your money and everyone has the right to make a purchase as they see fit.
But some of the stuff that poses as fact on this board is absolutely comical. Reminds me of the "Midnight" newspaper that had Janet Reno's head on a twentysomething bikini-clad body, saying that the photo was snapped while the Attorney General was on vacation.
I like not being a "me too"'er. Guess that's why I like GM products now, Studebakers instead of Big Three cars as a hobby vehicle, don't watch sports, and bought Carly Simon records when everybody around me was buying Linda Ronstadt.
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Basically, GM wants to be like everybody else. They need to figure out what they want to be when they grow up.
GM needs to become a leader, not a follower:
Chrysler brings out retro PT Cruiser >> GM brings out retro HHR
Ford strongly revises Mustang >> GM resurrects Camaro
Toyota has success with Prius >> GM goes on a wild hybrid multi $$billion binge, bringing out THREE (mild hybrids, two-mode hybrid, Volt) different hybrid technologies - all of which do much more poorly in the market when compared to Toyota
Ford brings out sync/my Ford touch >> GM expands OnStar to try and capture the same functionality
What, exactly, does GM actually LEAD in, as opposed to follow?
People were insulted some time back when I brought this up. GM has been the Walmart of auto manufacturers - the inexpensive, lower quality store. Go there for downscale items that are cheap and may or may not hold up well.
So now more than two years post-BK, the management of GM has figured out that they shouldn't operate in fiefdoms, and that just perhaps 35 door latches is a few too many. :surprise:
This isn't a company that has enough sense of urgency. Akerson is smart enough to realize the problems, but doesn't have enough leadership skills to rectify them. They need somebody like Steve Jobs (RIP) - bring in somebody like that and kick their [non-permissible content removed]$$ until things change FAST.
Right off hand, I don't know of any "regular" car with ten speed autos, but 8-speed autos are certainly very common in GM price-range vehicles.... Unless one thinks Chryslers aren't in the same price range...
ZF transmissions is building a huge manufacturing plant in the SC upstate to make them.
Newsflash: The Camaro regularly outsells the Mustang, and the magazines are saying the ZL-1 is more bang-for-the-buck than the more-expensive Mustang built to compete with it.
Despite the claims on this board that it was being discounted before it was introduced....
Just sayin'.
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ZF transmissions is building a huge manufacturing plant in the SC upstate to make them.
Another item there - note that NO new manufacturers go anywhere NEAR Michigan. You've got auto transplants from Asia and Europe growing like crazy in the south, Airbus and Boeing building new aircraft manufacturing in the south, etc. Why all in the south? Well that's because the UAW has a stranglehold on the northern midwest, and no new manufacturing ventures are going to touch that with the proverbial ten foot pole.
The Union has driven tons of jobs away from Michigan and other states. Yes, the same union that claims they are for the "working man" and "jobs". And GM could have been RID of this, but due to a flawed BK, no.
Newsflash: The Camaro regularly outsells the Mustang, and the magazines are saying the ZL-1 is more bang-for-the-buck than the more-expensive Mustang built to compete with it.
Valid point. But the original post was pointing out the lack of leadership at GM -- and GM was still a FOLLOWER when it came to deciding they might need a muscle coupe again - after Ford had resurgent success with the Mustang. So my point was still correct.
Re: Camaro's good sales - it's still a niche vehicle. Why doesn't GM lead in the volume areas such as family sedans? Why isn't the new Malibu competitive in this segment? Even you have indicated that the previous model is better in many ways (rear seat legroom). You'd think that if GM had a decent strategy, they would put all their effort into a competitive family sedan, rather than into sports coupes or $40K hybrids. How much money could they be making on the Volt, versus what it cost them to develop? Business strategy FAIL.
UAW: There is a discussion on Edmunds for whining about the UAW. Search for UAW in the Keyword box at the right.
Yes, I know that. We've both posted there, remember? :P
However, my post was ALSO about GM, which is the topic of this board.
You are correct about the government and the BK. So if GM fails again due to union issues, we can say that the government is the reason GM fails? Sort of like "Obamacare" for GM!
South - not just no union shenanigans, but low taxes, low regulation, low cost of living, lots of disguised bribe "incentives"...much of it is kind of second world in terms of amenities and human development indices (hence low taxes), but that can have a charm for many.
Isn't the ATS rear wheel drive? What's its competition?
As for rear wheel drive GM products...
Can you say Buick? Does that compete with the 300? I would guess "yes".
You asked a question, and I answered. If rear wheel drive is so popular, where are the GM products?
Do those competing GM products have 8-speed automatics?
I thought it was not just about meeting the competition, but beating it...setting the "standard of the world". Guess not...
Nothing like "waffling" when you don't get an answer you like. You can't claim to be a 5-star restaurant when your menu mainly consists of burgers and fries, along with the occasional steak...
South - not just no union shenanigans, but low taxes, low regulation, low cost of living, lots of disguised bribe "incentives"...much of it is kind of second world in terms of amenities and human development indices (hence low taxes), but that can have a charm for many.
You're right - I'd take the charms of Charleston or Atlanta over the "charms" of Detroit.
Of course, Gary and Detroit don't really represent the whole of the north or midwest, nor is anyone holding such locations as examples of thriving responsible development. I've been through SC, GA, AL, and there are some developmental lags, to put it nicely. Low taxes, low amenities. It makes sense.
The south is probably better from a cost of living and no harsh winter standpoint, anyway. And it's cheap while at the same time offering many incentives for relocation (some kind of free market "Capitalism", I guess), which is why some manufacturing has gone there. But, it isn't all sunshine and roses.
Just beware...it seemed like a boom when the textile industry moved south...then look what the treacherous 1% did...
ATL seems to be Detroit south, in many areas. Not exactly low crime rates, both property and violent. Like my friend joked the first time I visited him there..."watch where you go, or you'll end up on First 48"... :shades:
But hey, no big union controls (save for public sector, of course), so it must be paradise.
Well, as you so often like to remind all of us here...
This is the GM forum, not the Ford, Honda and Toyota forum.
GM wants to be THE leader, but it's difficult to lead from behind, wouldn't you say?
Just for the record, though, I think GM has finally achieved quality that is on par with the other major manufacturers, after having been in such a downward spiril for years. In fact, I think that the overall quality differences between major carmakers today is just about the same... Some better in areas, not as much elsewhere, but overall the same.
GM was famous for pushing the edge of technology for decades, in cars like the Corvette. That edge disappeared long ago. Competing by using yesterday's achievements only gets one so far...
You profess that GM is behind most everybody else, but hold them to a different standard. Who else offers rear-drive cars with 8-speed transmissions, at a Chevy price point? Not Honda, not Toyota, not Ford. Shame on them .
Also, it could be said for a lot of years that GM started trends and Ford and Chrysler followed. That doesn't mean Ford and Chrysler didn't have cars worth shopping for then.
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And, with all due respect, you're hung up on GM as a "Chevy price point" car provider.
Yet, you ignore all the other markets GM is operating in.... Except, when you want to profess GM's "worldly" prowess. Sorry, you can't have it both ways.
Yes, GM does a pretty good job operating in the lower-mid-range car market. Maybe that's where GM needs to concentrate, instead of trying to be in all the world markets., at all levels.
It does full-size trucks, but Ford does it better, it does mid-sized trucks, but Toyota does it better, it does family sedans, but Nissan and Toyota do it better. It does luxury vehicles, but MB, BMW and others do it better (sales volume-wise).
Looks like you've made an excellent case for GM to concentrate on simply being a mediocre carmaker...
Then, by your yardstick, the same could be said of Ford, Toyota, and Honda for not offering an 8-speed transmission.
Honestly, too, is an 8-speed automatically a superior product? It's sort of like "mine's bigger than yours". The mere fact of two more speeds itself is not a selling point IMHO.
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WHat exactly DOES GM do best? It seems like they're always falling just short. Caddy is making some sharp and smart cars that are competitive, but not quite at the level of BMW. The Malibu is not QUITE competitive with the rest of the class, short on legroom. Cruze? short on HP compared to the entire compact category, including Ford and Dodge. Sonic? Nice car, but can't hit 40 MPG with the automatic, unlike Korea Inc.
GM needs to find a place where they can say they're the best. I confess I do not know where that might be, though if they put some more work into the ATS they've got a shot with it. Maybe instead of taking a heavy cruiser and turning it into a Camaro, maybe they should make a mini Corvette. Something with the handling and body and tuning knowledge of a Vette, but in a smaller, more fuel efficient, and possibly more agile package. That's a place no one else is really going, and it might even be a better ATS than the ATS itself.
But hey, no big union controls (save for public sector, of course), so it must be paradise.
Not paradise....just better. As if anywhere is paradise without its issues.
Keeping this on GM - the biggest problem I see for GM (other than lack of product leadership) is the constraints and costs of being stuck in the unionized states. Ford of course has the same issues. Whereas Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes, VW, etc. can happily build plants *in this country*, GM has to either build in this country, knowing that it will always have the union constraints -- or it can build OUT of this country. Which IMHO is why Ford makes the Fusion in Mexico. GM has more local manufacturing, but that may be more a reflection of their lack of strategy on pretty much anything business related.
It certainly is, as it relates to both engine efficiency (read: fuel economy) and system performance.
That's why a properly designed CVT gives the best performance in a variable-engine-speed situation, because it can be tuned for maximum engine efficiency and engine output. The problem CVTs have is that they have limits on how much power they can accept. That's why they aren't found in high HP vehicles.
Can't have infinite gearing like a CVT? Then, the more gears, the more efficient the transmission. Eight is more efficient than six, which is more efficient than four, ...
Basic physics 101 there. While it may not matter to someone who's chosen brand doesn't offer it's availability, it does make a significant difference.
Comments
How about Polara for the current 4-door Charger?
I never really liked the name Polara, either. To me, it conjures up images of something porky.
I actually liked the name Matador. However, Dodge only used it for one year, 1960, and most people today would associate it with AMC, and probably not the best years, either! And, in today's worlds, it's probably politically incorrect!
As for today's Impala, IMO they should have called it Malibu, and reserved the name Impala for a true full-sized car. But, like big muscular coupes, true full-sized cars don't sell anymore.
The current Impala is okay if you want something that's fairly cheap, fairly reliable, and fairly economical, and by today's standards, large. But, I just don't think there's anything special about it...nothing that really makes it competitive. Hopefully the 2014 Impala will change all that.
Throughout most of those years, even though it started playing second fiddle to the Caprice, I still thought the Impala was a nice enough car for my needs. And I usually preferred the styling of the Impala, as it was often a bit cleaner, and less fussy/pretentious than the Caprice.
I really liked my grandparents' '72 Impala 4-door hardtop a lot. I remember asking Granddad, when I was about 8, to hold onto it so I could have it when I turned 16. Unfortunately, he just laughed and said that the car would be long-since rusted away by that time. This was around 1978, and even then I remember the spring ritual of Granddad slapping Bondo on the lower fenders, and getting out the forest green spraypaint can...
Opel isn't the only bad deal of GM's old management that Akerson is trying to unwind. He says GM's decision to spin off tech firm EDS in 1996 meant, in effect, that it was handing its information technology management to an outsider. He recently described it as one of the worst moves GM has made in the past 30 years, because GM is trying to operate with a 1970s computer system that affects design, engineering, payroll, and dealer relations.
UnF-------believable!! :mad:
New Chevrolet Spark Is Fastest-Selling Vehicle in July (Inside Line)
In 2012, this simply doesn't pass the common-sense test...as a believable statement. I rank it right up with the 'Mitt helped kill my wife' commercial on TV.
General Motors Co. chairman and CEO Dan Akerson has vowed to end company "fiefdoms" as he remakes the automaker's global structure.
"We're a global company that operates as small, little fiefdoms. That's got to stop," Akerson told employees during a recent global town hall meeting. "That contributes to this silo effect or perception."
GM is reshaping the company's long-entrenched focus on regions — North America, Europe and International Operations — dubbed "legal entities" by Akerson. Instead, he wants a structure that allows GM to take advantage of global scale and authority, and many operations would be more centralized, such as marketing, purchasing and global development.
GM is also implementing a new accounting system.
This is the BEST!!
The company needs a new information technology system — the existing one is so bad the automaker, until six months ago, had lost track of some of its 200,000 employees worldwide.
"We didn't know what they were doing," Akerson said.
I think Akerson believes! :P
In restructuring GM, Akerson also is looking to simplify the company.
He noted GM has 30 different door latches for its vehicle lineup, while Toyota has five.
GM had 23 data centers; most companies have two to four.
"We can't just rely on vice presidents and executive directors. We need people on the assembly line. We need everybody pulling in the same direction."
Jeremy Anywl, vice chairman of Edmunds.com, said Akerson needs to assess his leadership style. He contrasted it with Ford Motor Co. CEO Alan Mulally.
"No one would argue that the culture doesn't need to change," Anywl said.
"It's not about telling people to do things. It's about inspiring and creating cohesive teamwork and getting everyone working off the same play sheet."
Standard of the World, anyone?
Regards,
OW
Well, not everyone believes changes need to be made. Particularly those diehards!
Akerson’s efforts are hampered by the company’s size, history, complexity and his own lack of manufacturing experience, he said. The CEO, a Navy veteran, has mostly worked in telecommunications and private equity.
Randy Arickx, a GM spokesman, declined to comment.
Akerson hired Randy Mott as chief information officer in February and tasked him with overhauling the company’s old IT systems. Mott has said he wants to in-source thousands of jobs as part of an effort to give the automaker greater flexibility for innovation.
Still following, as usual.
Regards,
OW
Also, the flat statement that GM has a "'70's computer system" to run the company is about as believable as the oft-repeated comment here that "...GM won't do warranty work on pre-bankruptcy vehicles".
Sheesh.
Akerson also told workers the company is behind competitors on engine and transmission technology.
What say you?
GM has six-speed automatic transmissions when competitors have up to 10 gears, he said. Transmissions with more gears allow engines to do less work, saving fuel.
Also Thursday, Akerson told employees: — GM is hurt by its complexity, saying it has too many parts compared with its competitors.
What do you think about that? :confuse:
For example, he said the company has 30 different door latches while rival Toyota has only five. "It's a big deal," he said. "That's just the tip of the iceberg." — GM has invested in a battery company that has breakthrough technology to take electric cars at least 100 miles on a single charge within two years, and there's better than a 50-50 chance that that the cars will be able to go 200 miles per charge. GM's current electric car, the Chevy Volt, goes about 35 miles (56 kilometers) on a charge and has a small gas motor that generates power to keep the car going after that. Few competitors have electric cars with more than 100 miles (160 kilometers) of range. Tesla Motors' Model S can go up to 300 miles (480 kilometers), but it has a much larger battery and can cost more than twice as much as a Volt.
Sounds like Ackerson is a GM-Basher! What nerve he has!
Follow the leaders that are World Standards. NOT GM.
Regards,
OW
There is no doubt that GM isn't done being fixed yet. They were by far the biggest, among the oldest, and had the farthest to fall. It won't be an overnight thing.
But I truly think that if somebody doesn't at least look at a GM product when they shop, and compare price (and I mean out-the-door price, not only sticker), warranty, domestic content (and not just cherry-picking this one model or that one model), styling (IMHO), and is able to admit it's more of an American company than the imports, and it employs far more Americans, it's really too bad. Of course, it's your money and everyone has the right to make a purchase as they see fit.
But some of the stuff that poses as fact on this board is absolutely comical. Reminds me of the "Midnight" newspaper that had Janet Reno's head on a twentysomething bikini-clad body, saying that the photo was snapped while the Attorney General was on vacation.
I like not being a "me too"'er. Guess that's why I like GM products now, Studebakers instead of Big Three cars as a hobby vehicle, don't watch sports, and bought Carly Simon records when everybody around me was buying Linda Ronstadt.
Basically, GM wants to be like everybody else. They need to figure out what they want to be when they grow up.
GM needs to become a leader, not a follower:
- Ford brings out sync/my Ford touch >> GM expands OnStar to try and capture the same functionality
What, exactly, does GM actually LEAD in, as opposed to follow?People were insulted some time back when I brought this up. GM has been the Walmart of auto manufacturers - the inexpensive, lower quality store. Go there for downscale items that are cheap and may or may not hold up well.
So now more than two years post-BK, the management of GM has figured out that they shouldn't operate in fiefdoms, and that just perhaps 35 door latches is a few too many. :surprise:
This isn't a company that has enough sense of urgency. Akerson is smart enough to realize the problems, but doesn't have enough leadership skills to rectify them. They need somebody like Steve Jobs (RIP) - bring in somebody like that and kick their [non-permissible content removed]$$ until things change FAST.
ZF transmissions is building a huge manufacturing plant in the SC upstate to make them.
Isn't the new ATS only auto option a 6-speed?
Also...
•Ford strongly revises Mustang >> GM revises Camaro
Newsflash: The Camaro regularly outsells the Mustang, and the magazines are saying the ZL-1 is more bang-for-the-buck than the more-expensive Mustang built to compete with it.
Despite the claims on this board that it was being discounted before it was introduced....
Just sayin'.
You're absolutely correct. You don't buy the same things at Walmart that you buy at Macy's.
Is GM Walmart? :P
Another item there - note that NO new manufacturers go anywhere NEAR Michigan. You've got auto transplants from Asia and Europe growing like crazy in the south, Airbus and Boeing building new aircraft manufacturing in the south, etc. Why all in the south? Well that's because the UAW has a stranglehold on the northern midwest, and no new manufacturing ventures are going to touch that with the proverbial ten foot pole.
The Union has driven tons of jobs away from Michigan and other states. Yes, the same union that claims they are for the "working man" and "jobs". And GM could have been RID of this, but due to a flawed BK, no.
Camaro = 56,623
Really close now.
There currently are rebates on Camaro.
Camaro Rebates
Regards,
OW
It also wants to be Macy's, and no doubt has that potential.
It isn't going to get there competing against the competition as an "also-ran".
An ATS 6-speed auto isn't going to threaten BMW's 3-series 8-speed auto very much, IMO.
Valid point. But the original post was pointing out the lack of leadership at GM -- and GM was still a FOLLOWER when it came to deciding they might need a muscle coupe again - after Ford had resurgent success with the Mustang. So my point was still correct.
Re: Camaro's good sales - it's still a niche vehicle. Why doesn't GM lead in the volume areas such as family sedans? Why isn't the new Malibu competitive in this segment? Even you have indicated that the previous model is better in many ways (rear seat legroom). You'd think that if GM had a decent strategy, they would put all their effort into a competitive family sedan, rather than into sports coupes or $40K hybrids. How much money could they be making on the Volt, versus what it cost them to develop? Business strategy FAIL.
Bankruptcy, flawed: contact your local government party or their people in DC.
UAW: There is a discussion on Edmunds for whining about the UAW. Search for UAW in the Keyword box at the right.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes, I know that. We've both posted there, remember? :P
However, my post was ALSO about GM, which is the topic of this board.
You are correct about the government and the BK. So if GM fails again due to union issues, we can say that the government is the reason GM fails? Sort of like "Obamacare" for GM!
I'd still choose the new Malibu over a Kia or Hyundai near it in price, BTW...despite the reduced rear-seat legroom.
In the end, the South may actually come out better, or at a minimum, no worse. Been to downtown Detroit or Gary, IN recently?
Is there that much of a difference?
Regarding taxes and regulations, there are many in then South that would tell you both are overwhelming... It's all from one's perspective, I guess...
As for rear wheel drive GM products...
Can you say Buick? Does that compete with the 300? I would guess "yes".
You asked a question, and I answered. If rear wheel drive is so popular, where are the GM products?
Do those competing GM products have 8-speed automatics?
I thought it was not just about meeting the competition, but beating it...setting the "standard of the world". Guess not...
Nothing like "waffling" when you don't get an answer you like. You can't claim to be a 5-star restaurant when your menu mainly consists of burgers and fries, along with the occasional steak...
You're right - I'd take the charms of Charleston or Atlanta over the "charms" of Detroit.
The south is probably better from a cost of living and no harsh winter standpoint, anyway. And it's cheap while at the same time offering many incentives for relocation (some kind of free market "Capitalism", I guess), which is why some manufacturing has gone there. But, it isn't all sunshine and roses.
Just beware...it seemed like a boom when the textile industry moved south...then look what the treacherous 1% did...
But hey, no big union controls (save for public sector, of course), so it must be paradise.
This is the GM forum, not the Ford, Honda and Toyota forum.
GM wants to be THE leader, but it's difficult to lead from behind, wouldn't you say?
Just for the record, though, I think GM has finally achieved quality that is on par with the other major manufacturers, after having been in such a downward spiril for years. In fact, I think that the overall quality differences between major carmakers today is just about the same... Some better in areas, not as much elsewhere, but overall the same.
GM was famous for pushing the edge of technology for decades, in cars like the Corvette. That edge disappeared long ago. Competing by using yesterday's achievements only gets one so far...
And, it's got a very large problem... It's running out of water.
Textiles moved from the North to the South, and now car making is doing the same thing.
Dang! Everything we get is second-hand!!!
Also, it could be said for a lot of years that GM started trends and Ford and Chrysler followed. That doesn't mean Ford and Chrysler didn't have cars worth shopping for then.
Yet, you ignore all the other markets GM is operating in.... Except, when you want to profess GM's "worldly" prowess. Sorry, you can't have it both ways.
Yes, GM does a pretty good job operating in the lower-mid-range car market. Maybe that's where GM needs to concentrate, instead of trying to be in all the world markets., at all levels.
It does full-size trucks, but Ford does it better, it does mid-sized trucks, but Toyota does it better, it does family sedans, but Nissan and Toyota do it better. It does luxury vehicles, but MB, BMW and others do it better (sales volume-wise).
Looks like you've made an excellent case for GM to concentrate on simply being a mediocre carmaker...
Honestly, too, is an 8-speed automatically a superior product? It's sort of like "mine's bigger than yours". The mere fact of two more speeds itself is not a selling point IMHO.
GM needs to find a place where they can say they're the best. I confess I do not know where that might be, though if they put some more work into the ATS they've got a shot with it. Maybe instead of taking a heavy cruiser and turning it into a Camaro, maybe they should make a mini Corvette. Something with the handling and body and tuning knowledge of a Vette, but in a smaller, more fuel efficient, and possibly more agile package. That's a place no one else is really going, and it might even be a better ATS than the ATS itself.
Not paradise....just better. As if anywhere is paradise without its issues.
Keeping this on GM - the biggest problem I see for GM (other than lack of product leadership) is the constraints and costs of being stuck in the unionized states. Ford of course has the same issues. Whereas Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes, VW, etc. can happily build plants *in this country*, GM has to either build in this country, knowing that it will always have the union constraints -- or it can build OUT of this country. Which IMHO is why Ford makes the Fusion in Mexico. GM has more local manufacturing, but that may be more a reflection of their lack of strategy on pretty much anything business related.
That's why a properly designed CVT gives the best performance in a variable-engine-speed situation, because it can be tuned for maximum engine efficiency and engine output. The problem CVTs have is that they have limits on how much power they can accept. That's why they aren't found in high HP vehicles.
Can't have infinite gearing like a CVT? Then, the more gears, the more efficient the transmission. Eight is more efficient than six, which is more efficient than four, ...
Basic physics 101 there. While it may not matter to someone who's chosen brand doesn't offer it's availability, it does make a significant difference.