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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "General Motors Co. is back in the driver's seat on Wall Street. More than three years after the auto maker filed for bankruptcy protection, investment banks are jockeying for GM's business, wooing the company's top executives in anticipation that the once-moribund car maker will soon be a busy banking customer.

    The pursuit of GM marks a notable turnaround from a few years ago when the company had to be rescued by the U.S. government.

    Especially attractive to banks is the prospect of helping GM increase its burgeoning in-house finance arm, GM Financial. GM is bidding for parts of Ally Financial Inc.'s international auto-financing business, GM has disclosed. "

    Banks Put GM's Woes in Rearview Mirror (WSJ)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Durango - I thought you were a Ford guy and would choose Explorer?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited October 2012
    I thought you were a Ford guy and would choose Explorer?

    I am a Ford fan, but the Explorer does little for me. I'd rather have an ecoboost powered Flex. Plus I could tow my boat with a Grand Cherokee/Durango, none of the fwd based SUV/CUVs can.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Flex is not a commercial success, but I like it too.

    It's part Range Rover, part Mini Cooper, lowered and chopped. They look so long, too. 2 friends own them.

    Spotted a C-Max in the flesh for the first time, that's a good looking ride.

    Back to GM, wonder why they never brought the Zafira over here?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Back to GM, wonder why they never brought the Zafira over here?

    Because outside of the 83 Mazda5 buyers, there's little interest in a little people mover.

    Ford IMHO is doing it right by offer the C-Max in alternate power versions only. It's a Prius fighter. Maybe GM could bring it here with the same goal. But of course they'd have to have a proper hybrid power plant. Perhaps the Volt technology could be implemented in the Zafira C - call it a Volt MPV.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    At $4+ a gallon, no one wants a small, fuel efficient people mover. Well, I'm sure GM is using it's usual wisdom, as always. People also are not interested in hatchbacks. Nor are they interested in minivans.

    Of course, companies not named GM appear able to build and sell these contraptions that no one is interested in. So perhaps the problem is that no one is interested in GM hatchbacks, minivans, or small people-movers?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Let's not be too critical of GM here.

    Ford has yet to prove the C-Max will sell here. They are taking a gamble. Further the Mazda 5 can hardly create a business case for a small people mover either.

    If GM tried to trail blaze and offer the Zafira here, all the GM critics would say it's such a waste.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    outside of the 83 Mazda5 buyers

    With more competitors that could easily expand to 100 or so. :D

    Volt MPV is a neat idea but they would have to keep pricing very close to where the Volt is now, maybe a couple grand higher.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    bought a new Chevy Volt yet?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited October 2012
    bought a new Chevy Volt yet?

    I'd buy one through Lemko or Uplander ONLY! Their purchases of GM are perfect!

    Regards,
    OW
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Now Mullaly says a GM failure would have led to a Ford collapse because of the vendor implications. This whole auto situation several years back was much more dimensional and complex than many will ever admit. Whether Ford survived or not, a GM shut down would have driven consumer prices up considerably and I still seriously doubt someone else would have bought out the old GM facilities in heavily union areas like some believe.

    However, down the road as Asia and Latin American economies continue to grow, I think US transplants will continue to increase and that may change the US market calculus in the next decade. In fact, I could also see a shake up of brands by then too. Mitsu seems pretty much already gone, as does Suzuki. Mazda has a few interesting products, but I wonder about them long term in the US. Is Scion only still here because of Toyota's big pockets? Acura and Infiniti appear to still be very small factors here. In Detroit, how about Buick, Lincoln and will there still be both Dodge and Chrysler, or does one fade away?

    I don't think the restructuring is anywhere near over, even if the BK's are.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2012
    Here's one link to the story:

    Ford Would Have Shut Without Auto Bailouts, Rattner Says (Business Week)

    As I recall, Mulally testified that the suppliers would have been in trouble if GM and Chrysler had failed, but I don't recall him saying that Ford would have gone under as a result. Interesting.

    Hopefully any more restructuring will involve foreign governments (not including Canada, which contributed to the last bailout), since most of the current problems involve falling sales in the EU and Asia due to their economic woes.

    Dodgeman07, didn't follow up to see if you were quoted last month by Bill Vlasic after you talked to him on the phone; he's got a new car book out (Once Upon a Car).

    More in On the Road to Detroit’s Big Pileup (NY Times)
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Ford IMHO is doing it right by offer the C-Max in alternate power versions only. It's a Prius fighter. Maybe GM could bring it here with the same goal.

    That's not like GM unless Ford is wildly successful. Then GM will belatedly bring it over. Right now they'd rather build great niche vehicles that aren't going to go against the volume sedans in the market.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Remember Mazda's not looking to grow all that much. They just want to serve a niche profitably. Mitsu and Suzuki, what hurt them was trying to be little miniature GMs or Toyotas, but nothing really differentiated them (except Mitsu's EVO).

    Scion is supposedly Toyota's youth brand, but I'm not sure how well that's working because now they're marketing Corolla and Camry to youth (Coach T and all). So Scion might just be a petrie dish right now. Acura, Infinit, and Lexus are doing fine though. Frankly so is Caddy, that's the one GM brand that actually seems to have most of an identity.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,932
    http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/camaro-owner-records-mechanics-abusing-ca- r-scheming-damages-152707580.html

    What's lost in the article, is that the guy needed transmission work on his low mileage low-use Camaro SS. He didn't take it to be fixed for no reason, but the dealerships didn't help matters.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    bought a new Chevy Volt yet?

    I'd buy one through Lemko or Uplander ONLY! Their purchases of GM are perfect!


    Guys of your ilk are quick to listen to CR. They said the Volt had the fewest problems reported of any new car in their last survey.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The Volt is still a GM. You would need to buy one for me. All of your GM's were First Class!

    In other news:

    Toyota recalls 7.43 million cars

    Balance. Toyota is catching up with GM but FAST! :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    The current king of recalls, Toyota. We're not talking 1971 here, we're talking 2012.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Member Posts: 181
    andre1969: Back in the summer of '09, my '76 LeMans left me stranded at the liquor store on a hot summer day. I had to leave it and come back after dark, about 4 hours later.

    The dead battery gave you an excuse to make a return trip!
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Guys of your ilk are quick to listen to CR. They said the Volt had the fewest problems reported of any new car in their last survey.


    ...now if GM could only do something about that lofty price, they could have a winner.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2012
    That's a huuuuge one!

    I actually hope they recall my Sienna. When I had the spare tire chain recall they washed it for free.

    That's the last time it was washed! :D

    That's not even Toyota's biggest concern right now, China is. They burned down some Toyota dealerships. Production was cut by half.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    That's a huuuuge one!

    I keep saying Toyota has GM disease...now it is in full progression mode! ;)

    I hope you get that car wash!

    Go HyunKia...who has the "GM-Toy" pre-disease conditions lurking in the skyrocketing sales...

    Regards,
    OW
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I have to wonder if it's related to this story earlier in the year:

    NHTSA Investigates GM, Toyota Vehicles for Door Fires (cars.com)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Too-quick growth is a major factor.

    I wonder if anyone has ever compared busy plants that run three 8-hour shifts 24 hours a day, to see if the night shift cars are even in quality?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My wife's former roommate has a TrailBlazer. I'll call and say if the switch feels sticky to complain to the ODI at NHTSA.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    Mitsu seems pretty much already gone, as does Suzuki. Mazda has a few interesting products, but I wonder about them long term in the US. Is Scion only still here because of Toyota's big pockets? Acura and Infiniti appear to still be very small factors here. In Detroit, how about Buick, Lincoln and will there still be both Dodge and Chrysler, or does one fade away?

    No New Taxes. Read my lips. Just kidding.

    Mitsubishi's Japanese CEO has stated many times that Mitsu is not pulling out of the U.S. come hell or high water. They won't.

    I love my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS and wouldn't want any other car on the road. No kidding. It's a great sports sedan that handles well, accelerates well, looks great and...is almost paid off.

    Ya gotta love Mitsubishi. Remember, everyone forgets that Papa Mitsubishi, with their successful electronics, HVAC and shipping ventures, dictate their automotive sales everywhere.

    Daddy Mitsu CEO says they're staying in the U.S. and I believe him.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Daddy Mitsu CEO says they're staying in the U.S. and I believe him.

    Him AND you are as deluded as the GM fanbois. :shades: Mitsu is done, they're not quite as done as Suzuki, but they're done. They're not making any sort of mark in the market, and they're not profitable right now.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Didn't Isuzu also go down swinging? The leaders never admit they're closing up shop.

    Hate to lose the EVO but Mitsu doesn't seem to have a single volume seller. I can't believe the Juke outsells the Outlander Sport.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Interesting....I'd say it is related.

    Toyota = GM regarding CURRENT recalls...but GM is the "Champion of ALL-TIME". :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2012
    Similar deal with Honda too; water can get into the power window switch. May have to go back to crank windows!

    2002-'06 Honda CR-V Recalled for Fire Risk (Inside Line)
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Wow! Is there no end to GM-Disease?? :confuse:

    Regards,
    OW
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2012
    Nice try but it's not just GMs that break.

    In fact, a few years ago my Nissan power window master switch carboned up and quit working. I mechanically scraped it out and it's still working. Now I wonder if it's going to catch on fire though. That switch was made by ALPS. Factories and engineering are all over, but the home office is in Tokyo. Same company makes a bunch of touchpads and Apple keyboards (or did), and Alpine car stereos. I used one of their Cirque touchpads for a few years when my mouse hand started bothering me.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,932
    is ripe for a takeover from who other, than GM.

    I think Mitsu is still reeling from being tied up with Chrysler a long time ago.

    Wasn't it the Dodge Stealth = 3000GT?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think the market is just getting too crowded. You have to have some minimum volume for a factory or dealership to cover fixed costs.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    True but beyond that you only need enough volume to be profitable, and secure a niche. Subaru managed to carve one out. Mazda carved one out. Volkswagen's got one, it's a little fuzzier but they have one (they may lose it in a quest to be #1 though). Jeep has the ultimate one when you get down to it. Ford had one, but they seem to be developing a new one.

    Of course, the manufacturers that are looking for world domination rather than serving a loyal customer base can leave less for the niche players.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Sound familiar?

    Safety advocate Sean Kane says he doubts that the problems occurred after manufacture. "There is a lot of smoke around this one," he says. And, he notes, the switch issue has been swirling for a while.

    The recall comes as Toyota seemed to have largely put behind it the self-inflicted wounds from the 2009 and 2010 recalls of millions of vehicles over sticky gas pedals and floor mats that could trap the gas pedal.

    In fact, many of the vehicles and model years in the latest recall also were involved in those earlier recalls. Toyota executives said at that time that the company's concentration on quality wavered in those years as it rushed to become the world's largest auto seller.

    "The recall is another blemish on Toyota's reputation for quality," says Clarence Ditlow. "Toyota cut back on quality control from 2000 to 2010 in order to be the world's largest auto seller."


    Just insert GM for Toyota. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Same with Ford. I had to replace the power window master switch on my Mercury Grand Marquis last year.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2012
    Figures, since my Quest was built by Ford when they had the joint venture with Nissan to do the Villager and some of the obvious interior parts, like the arm rests, were an exact match for my buddy's older F-150 back in Boise. Parts is parts.

    "General Motors' flagship brand is set to introduce 13 all-new, redesigned or significantly refreshed vehicles next year, executives said Wednesday."

    2013 to be crucial year for Chevrolet (Detroit Free Press)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    May have to go back to crank windows!

    Hysterical.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wasn't it the Dodge Stealth = 3000GT?

    Yup, basically clones.

    Many others were related, too:

    Colt & Mirage, Eclipse & Laser and even Avenger (LWB), Mitsu got a Dodge pickup clone. Chrysler used the 3l V6 from Mitsu in a whole bunch of vehicles.

    Now that they "broke up" they use the Pentastar in just about everything, and Fiat for their small engines and platforms. Seems to be working, actually, but let's see if the european crisis changes that.

    Most partnerships like that ended up not working out long-term (Ford-Mazda, Daimler-Chrysler, GM-Isuzu & Suzuki & Subaru), a notable exception being Nissan and Renault.

    Who would have thought? Renault? Nobody called that one. Good leadership, I think.

    Trial marriages include Toyota-Subaru. FT86 is a hit, but now what? One is huge and the other is niche-oriented, Subaru could lose focus if they're not careful.

    Of course GM is trying again with PSA, but I doubt they'll have the success that Renault did.

    It can make sense to partner up when you have synergies. GM needs small car expertise, and in reality it's the remnants of Daewoo that gave us the Sonic and Spark.

    So why PSA? Bizarre.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Back seat, at least:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/10/gm-announces-new-entertainment-package-for-20- 13-cadillac-srx/

    Twin 8" screens, BluRay, plus tons of input options, for $1600.

    This may be the leading rear seat entertainment package right now, at least OEM built-in.
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Member Posts: 181
    edited October 2012
    The new Impala looks to be a huge improvement over the current one, which is one of the oldest cars on the market. The new one can't get here soon enough.

    I wonder if the new Silverado will continue the trend towards more massive pickups.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They sell bunches of them, though many are to fleets.

    Let's see if with the new one they sell to more individuals.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I don't see the new Silverado being smaller in size, I do think it might start a trend towards lower weight.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    That's certainly the idea anyway.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Member Posts: 181
    edited October 2012
    Based on improved looks alone it should sell better to retail customers.

    The interesting part is that, of the three cars based on this platform - the Chevrolet Impala, Buick LaCross and Cadillac XTS - the Chevrolet version is the best-looking one. Even though it's supposed to be the least expensive one.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I just checked some numbers, and currently it seems the Silverado is the runt of the bunch. The regular cab, 8-foot bed model is 224.5" long. In comparison, the Ram is 231" long and the F-150 is a touch longer, at 231.9".

    Doesn't the Silverado tend to get criticized for lack of storage behind the seat? My Ram actually has a good deal of room back there, and I'd imagine the F-150 is similar? That lack of storage might be a result of the Silverado's shorter length.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like the LaCrosse. Maybe when I retire I'll get one. ;)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    edited October 2012
    I'm in the GM News thread, must've got lost. Now I understand the harsh attitude toward Mitsubishi. When you build such utter junk like GM has for decades the feelings towards a Japanese automaker that builds great powertrains like Mitsubishi can get a little...terse.

    No problem, Mitsubishi will still be here in a year and you guys will be typing the same intelligensia you are now about them, "I can't believe they're still here!"

    Closeout sale! Fire sale! Last chance! Get your incredible deals on Mitsus now 'cause they're gonna be gone, and, when they're gone, they're gone! Hurry! Don't wait!

    Glad I got it. Carry on.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

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