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Comments
Saturday isn't free.
Yeah, I meant we couldn't have access to the pickups. Or the 2014 Forester for that matter.
A small Chevy dealer about ten miles from here is putting in bold letters in their Impala ads, "Last Year for Bench Seat!".
I have a friend who has 4 kids, though nowadays those folks get 3 row crossovers or minivans.
Most likely those buying are the type who don't care what they drive as long as it can be had cheap.
Actually looking at a history of Impala sales numbers, they spike few months. I know my wife's employer orders cars about 4 times per year so that makes since. That 14k unit sales in January is likely 80+% fleet.
Or who like their dealer or who liked their last Impala.
I have a buddy, and he's a car guy, 66 years old, who has an '08 that they like and he'd buy a '12 or '13 he said if he could get the beige interior without the black everything else inside.
Well, to some here, the possibility of GM or any of the big 3 going under and bankrupt was an impossibility as little as a few months before it actually happened.
To some here, I'm sure GM's were always as good as the best Toyota's and Honda's in any year. CR just cooked the books for years according to some here.
Some say only an ill-maintained Big 3 car would be unreliable (I know that's not true). Some say only a "hard" driven Big 3 car would be unreliable (Not sure on this one, but if it can't be driven hard, I don't want it anyway).
I think that a lot of bad experiences aren't reported online in reviews or forums either. There are a lot of passive people out there, willing to accept just about anything without speaking up, and either assume it's the norm or simply aren't too bothered by excruciatingly bad quality. Passive, patsy, shy, timid, whatever.
That's my sentiment, as well. I'll profess that I miss cars like the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Town Car, DTS, Lucerne, etc, but let's face it...if the market was there, they'd keep building them. I've heard some excuses, such as impending safety requirements have doomed some of these cars. For instance, that was one reason cited for the demise of GM's B-body after 1996. Those cars had big windows and low window sills, and the bodies really hung out far over the frame rails, to make them extra roomy inside. But, there were new side impact standards going in for 1997, and it would have made it hard to re-fit those cars to make them comply. And, GM was finding that full-sized SUVs were a lot more profitable, so that was just one more excuse to dump them.
I've heard that there were some new regulations coming down the pike that would have made it hard for the Ford Panthers to comply, as well. But still, if there was enough demand for these types of cars, the manufacturers would have found a way.
I think it's interesting that Chrysler, who was the first to abandon big cars completely, midway through 1980, is the only one of the domestics that still offers a fairly large car in the old school tradition...long wheelbase, RWD, V-8 availability, etc.
The sales are nearly amazing for a car that old, fleet and/or otherwise.
My wife wouldn't even walk over to one when we bought her Malibu.
:shades:
Come on, these are regular-production Chevys according to one or two guys here!
Ford sold nearly 47k Crown Vics in 2011 which nearly all likely went fleet.
The Taurus doesn't sell much more than that now, though I'd guess the average transaction price is quite a bit higher.
Where I live, I could not tell you when I last saw a Crown Vic or Impala police car.
Still lots of Crown Vic and Impala police cars around here.
what are they using these days out your way, Uplander? Here in Maryland, most of the State Troopers still seem to be driving Crown Vics. On the county level, I'm seeing a mix of Crown Vics and Impalas...even an occasional 2005 or earlier Impala!
In DC, I'm mainly seeing the new Tauruses and Explorers these days.
Going down into Virginia, I remember seeing Charger police cars fairly often.
I meant to add to my earlier post too, that apparently Impalas are considerably outselling Crown Vics in their last year based on this month's sales versus the annual number for 'Vics that dieselone posted.
I work at home most of the time now, but was in Pittsburgh last week and will be in Harrisburg in a few weeks. Last week I don't remember seeing a single police car, but it could be that Crown Vics are so buried in my subconscious by this time they they were out and about and being used and I just don't remember them.
I think the new Impala should be okay, as it's really not all *that* new. The 3.6 has been out for a few years now, as has the 6-speed. And the platform has been out as the LaCrosse since 2010. So, it shouldn't be a bold, daring foray into uncharted waters here. Although I do question them putting in a 4-cyl as the standard engine for something that big. But then, the LaCrosse offered a 4-cyl for awhile, as well.
60%so I doubt it's closer to 90% yet, but maybe... (Edit: make that 75%)Automotive Fleets
...and I'll counter with my own focus group of 1 - my 2011 Explorer has not spent one day in the shop in 2 years for any issues other than routine maintenance. Hence I can extrapolate that the local PD will have perfect Explorers.
I was a former owner of a 1997 Explorer Sport that I bought brand new. At the time I knew people who had total lemons and warned me not to buy one, and I had people who had 200 - 300k miles on them and narry a wimper.
But I took a chance, bought a Forest Green 2-Door Sport with the Eddie Bauer package, loaded. Even managed to get one with a manual which was a rarity. Mine needed an o2 sensor about 3 months after I bought it and then in it's first winter (8 months after I bought it) I found out that the locking hubs never fully engaged/disengaged which would cause the car to slam and shutter like crazy when I took left turns with the 4WD switched on... :lemon:
10 months later and 4 service visits I traded it on my first Honda Accord
We'll just have to be patient for a while longer.
"Fans of 21st century Detroit muscle, rejoice: The Pontiac G8 is back -- in spirit if not in sheet metal, anyway. The beloved G8 only lasted two years before Pontiac closed its doors, dashing enthusiast hopes for stealthy rear-wheel-drive V8 power most could afford and use every day. The 2014 Chevrolet SS looks to reignite those hopes.
The 2014 SS will also serve as the base car for Chevrolet's 2013 NASCAR Sprint Cup campaign, with a likely debut at the Daytona 500 in February. The production SS is expected at dealers in late 2013." (link)
Either that, or we can pool our focus groups together and come up with the conclusion that half of them will be fine, and half will be turds! :P
Glad to hear yours has been good, though. My office-mate said that, despite all the problems, she still likes it a lot. Nice looking rig, too. Hers is an attractive midnight blue color.
He is a really anal-retentive guy about keeping his cars looking nice, and after 165K miles, it still looked nearly new (just some surface rust on the steps on the side). We carpooled daily then and I never knew him to have a lick of problem with it.
Now that I think about it, it might have been a '95. He traded it on an '02 Escape which he just traded a few months back for a '13 Escape.
Yeah, but I think there are a few reasons for that. IIRC, the last year the CV was in production they were primarily fleet only. Also, Ford had a few other vehicles to sell to fleets, the Fusion and Taurus. Currently, the Impala is GM's volume fleet car to rental companies, which is good as that is what destroys resale values the quickest as rental fleets turn over their inventory far sooner than most non-rental fleets.
I read nearly 80% of Impala fleet sales go to rental companies and few companies would want to use a gas hog like a Crown Vic for their employees who drive a lot.
Can add two more words: Loyal and Fan.
With some American brands, perhaps GM, people continue to buy just "because". Because that is the first brand they bought as a youth and have never switched. Or, their parents and grandparents bought GM and they "blindingly" followed suit.
Can compare this with Chicago Cubs fans. Most generally, this club has delivered an inferior performance year after year - some exceptions such as 2003 - decade after decade, maybe 100 years after 100 years, and Cubs fans are such because their parents, grandparents, greatgrandparents were Cubs fans.
Year after year of mediocrity or worse and the Cubs fans keep going back for more. Is there a parallel in selecting, buying autos? With GM, or other American brands?
Impala.
So, what is that attributable to? Low information car buyers? People blindingly loyal to GM/Chevrolet, just like Cubs fans?
Maybe the 2014 Impala will be a breakthrough and will unseat the Honda Accord which has reigned supreme over the last couple decades or more. We will find out in the next 6-12 months.
It's a personal taste thing.
And I really did like it while I had it, the thing was nearly unstoppable in the snow. I used to try and get it stuck! Going off some trail in the woods that had been untouched by a plow. I remember having a blizzard with like 16 inches of snow and I seriously trudged down this access road at my old high school like it was 2 inches. Those big (Michelin maybe) tires (mounted on kinda ugly rims IMO) probably helped as well. I think that thing might have even had traction control...
LOL, you make it sound like the Impala has a huge following. The majority of Impala owners bought them used on the cheap. No different than the previous Ford Taurus. It also became an also ran and a few people still bought them. Over 170k of them sold in '06 and by then it was a horribly outclassed car. Just like the Impala, the vast majority were fleets and a few retail sales to those who just wanted a cheap new car and a very cheap low mileage used car.
Personally, I don't like buying the same vehicle over and over. I've never owned the same twice. Though that might happen when I get rid of the Expedition. It just fits my needs the best for the money, it has nothing to do with what I'd want (that would require spending at least 2x the money).
Nothing more of a turnoff that to listen somebody who feels they are 'enlightened' push their opinion on somebody else (not you, BTW).
I think many of us have been guilty of that.
Quite often the most rational choice is the most boring one.
True car has a target price of $44,607 for a Corvette. A loaded Odyssey Touring Elite costs about the same.
We all know which one sells better but in a way we are all at least a little jealous of the guy who made the irrational choice.
Just drive a minivan for a few years and those comments from the great unwashed will just amuse you.
Well I can relate, those of us who choose to drive full size SUVs and/or pickups have been on the receiving end of all kinds comments over the past several years. I've heard everything from supporting terrorists to having to compensate for the something. Whatever, I guess if we all saw things the same way, these forums would get boring fast;)
Well I won't comment about the Parisienne, but a G8 would be a cool car to have.
Well, on Korean, not Japanese brands, a senior citizen couple in my neighborhood only owned American branded cars all their lives. A few years back, when they were ready to replace their Dodge, they had an open mind. Went out and tested and looked at every sedan in their price range - American, Japanese and Korean. They said the Hyundai was the best and they purchased it. They had open minds.
On Impala, the Edmunds Review of the 2013 Impala gives an objective view. Here are some of their comments:
"Cheap interior materials and construction; lackluster handling; bland styling; generally outpaced by the competition in most respects."
"While this year's Impala still offers a roomy interior and good reliability, the full-size sedan segment is crowded with competing models that best this long-in-the-tooth model in terms of styling, performance, quality and refinement."
"Instead we strongly suggest full-size sedan shoppers have a look at more up-to-date competitors including the Buick LaCrosse, Chrysler 300, Ford Taurus and Hyundai Azera. Each is better to drive, more refined, nicer inside and generally more modern."
"The cabin's design is also outdated compared to most of its competitors, while the materials don't measure up to those found in many of GM's more recent models. One glimpse at the upcoming all-new Impala will reveal just how behind the times the current model is."
"Ride comfort is quite good, but the car's handling is mediocre at best. Though some buyers will find this trade-off acceptable, we think you'll be happier with the more refined level of ride and handling offered by many of the Impala's competitors."
Past CR April issues showing reliability indicate Impala trailing Honda and Toyota. The last full test of the Impala done by CR said:
"Highs - Trunk space"
"Lows - Agility, unsettled ride, rear-seat comfort, rear access, fit and finish"
Per Edmunds, CR and car magazines, the current generation of the Impala is clearly deficient in many attributes compared to its competition.
Yes, we are in America. People, consumers, buy what they want. Whether brand of refrigerator, bread toaster, dish washer, or car.
Smart consumers seek out as much information as possible before making a purchase. That includes keeping an open mind AND a willingness to buy something from a manufacturer they had not previously had experience with when the information and facts show a superior product. Loyalty has no place with being a well informed and logical consumer.
The new Impala won't have a bench will it? I was talking to a friend of mine who has been selling chevy trucks for 20 years. I asked him about the bench seat option and told me to not buy or order a crew cab with a front bench. His reason is it would be hard to sell and I'd take a bigger hit at trade in time. He told me when they get one on the lot it sits for a long time.
I know when I was looking at f150's they had one SuperCrew with a front split bench. The salesman told me they don't get them in very often as most people prefer front buckets.
That center seating spot in most new trucks is useless, anyway. Even though they have the shoulder room for 3 across seating, the floor is raised considerably in the middle, and the dashboards tend to jut out, so the center passenger has to sit in a fetal position, with their legs in the HVAC controls.
At least, it's that bad on my Ram, and was just as bad in a Silverado I sat in at the DC auto show. I didn't see an F-150 with a bench seat, to compare, but I'm sure it's just as bad.
My old '85 Silverado is actually better at 3 across seating than the new trucks. It's not quite as wide inside, but the dash doesn't jut out as much. And, while the center spot in the floor is raised there, it's not as extreme as my Ram or that Silverado.
Still, I'm glad my Ram has a bench seat, so that, in an emergency, it can seat three people if it really has to. I hate the idea of having something that big, and it just be a 2-seater!
I don't think they're going to offer a bench on the new Impala, but I could be wrong.
If Impala gets rave reviews, lots of showroom traffic, wonder if dealers will be loading them up with dealer installed stuff and adding to MSRP and then even putting on a mark-up?
Absolutely, positively.
For something like fifteen or sixteen years straight ('59-'74 or so), the Impala was the best-selling car in America, year in, year out. It lost the title to the Cutlass Supreme in '75 for a couple years I think, but when the excellently-engineered and handsome '77 full-size Chevys came out, they regained the sales crown.
Lots of choice in body styles and options, largest (and some would say best) dealer organization, and best resale value in its class were all things that kept Impala owners, owners. Of the five guys I ran around most with in high school, only one's parents didn't own an Impala. They had a Dodge Royal Monaco, which was clearly influenced, style-wise, by the '71 and later big Chevys.
I might add, the Chevrolet Caprice (an Impala with better trim) was voted among the "Ten Best Cars in the World" in 1983 by Car and Driver--in the seventh year of the platform.
I actually think the current Impala, even though old, is still handsome when one avoids the rear spoiler and gets the aluminum wheels that were part of the LTZ package five or so years ago.
I agree, the new one looks great, but I have only seen pictures of the ones with all the candy and big rims. Still, I find it probably the most original looking exterior design since the 2000 model with the Airport landing lights at the back.
But sources are saying the price is going to crest into the 40 grand range and lower models are going to be 4-cylinder powered so we'll have to wait and see how well those risks pan out. I still think they should carry the current one on a few years as a "Classic", dedicated to fleets only to save the new one from the Rental lots.
Absolutely, positively.
And that means what today? Nothing to most buyers. When I was a kid the Taurus was a game changer in 1986. Big deal, that was then. It means nothing today as the current Taurus certainly isn't the leader in the market like the original and I certainly don't like the current Taurus any more or less because of how successful it was back in the 80's.
My dad had a '79 Caprice and my grandpa had an '87. Nice cars for their time, but I don't miss them.
I didn't notice that issue with the F150 Supercrew I test drove. But I wasn't looking for an adult to sit there. My 10 year old daughter sat in the front seat between my wife and I with plenty of room for all of us.
It's not uncommon for me to have two extra girls riding along with us, so being able to seat 6 would be nice. But in the end I'll probably go with another SUV. Interested in seeing the new Suburban to see what improvements have been made.
I was simply answering the guy's question.
True, the 80's seemed to have a lot of change in what was popular with many buyers rushing to buy smaller fuel efficient vehicles. I think the lowly Escort was the best selling car for a few years. That has to say something regarding how bad the early 80's were;)