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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....My '79 Monte Carlo had a Buick 3.8."

    Are you sure it was the Buick 3.8 (231 cu in) and not the Chevy 3.8 (229 cu in)??
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    What happened to the timing chain?
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    I'm sure.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    came out after work with 157k on it. Went to start it and all the plastic teeth stripped off the cam gear. I changed to a noisier steel cam gear and new chain and crank gear too. Never bothered to fish any of the plastic teeth out of the oil pan.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    Did GM get rid of all the parts divisions? Is Powertrain still a separate division? Allison transmissions? Packard went to Delphi?
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Unfortunately I have no detailed information on that matter. I'm just listing the brands under GM to give an idea on how overcomplicated GM is, not to mention most it's lineups are stodgy as some others pointed out.

    Goodluck finding the equivalent of stodgy for 8 makes? Try 12, Steve. I'm not sure even a thesaurus can handle it. :P :P
  • fordexpofordexpo Member Posts: 11
    For all of the people trashing GM and Ford it is not so. The vehicles are built as good as my new Honda. No one more than me would love to trash these companies but they do make quality built vehicles. Notice that I did not say anything about Chrysler? his is junk and will always be junk. I only switched to Honda because I will not stand behind the UAW anymore. My family purchases one new car a year but I can not support the big mouth UAW for GM or Ford. I will not miss GM. They will be gone like Montgomery Wards in a few months as the economey continues to free fall with millions more people unemployed. Credit has ruined america.....
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Credit has ruined america..

    Welcome to the forum. I think you are spot on. The UAW would rather bury GM than to cut their wages and benefits. Let em die. We have lived on cheap credit for too long and now we will have to pay. It will be brutal for many people to face the reality of their wasteful ways.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I just flipped on the 24 Hours of Daytona, and happened to see some some Corvettes and at least 1 Pontiac prototype racing. Since the Pontiac was prominently displayed across the windshield I believe it is a factory team.

    Does anyone get a little upset that GM needed loan money to keep the doors open, and meanwhile probably are dropping a few million paying for drivers, cars, pit-teams, and expenses to race?

    Everything I see including sponsoring football games is that it's business as usual with GM, when I would think they would be in crisis mode, with little accomplished 1/2 way thru their time-limit to keep their loans. :confuse:
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Ok, try this...person buys the Pontiac, then wants to move up to a sporty premium vehicle. His Pontiac dealer will try to sell him a Buick, and the dealer across the street will try to sell him a Caddy. They undercut each other until one of the dealers makes $1.95 on the sale, before taxes. This is bad for resale value, and bad for the dealers because they're making rotten profits, right? But hey, that's all right because at least GM managed to keep that manufacturer loyalty rate high, right?

    Market share isn't everything, and as a matter of fact, many of the things GM has done to grab and retain market share have actually HURT profitability in exchange. That, to put it frankly, is stupid.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Montgomery Ward, believe it or not, is still around. :shades:

    So maybe you shouldn't count GM out too soon.
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    What happens when you are running short of time and you still use words like 'could' or 'may'. ?

    GM: Saturn could survive; Chrysler: We'll be viable by spring
    Robert Snell / The Detroit News
    NEW ORLEANS -- General Motors Corp. said today the Saturn brand could survive a broad restructuring plan being developed that involves selling, shrinking or killing half of its eight brands.

    All possibilities are being considered but the options will be narrowed next month when the cash-strapped automaker submits a restructuring plan to Congress, said Mark LaNeve, GM's vice president for North America sales, service and marketing, while talking to reporters during the National Automobile Dealers Association convention here.

    "If we just wanted to shut it down, we could have announced that," he said. "Saturn may very well have a place" within GM.

    Meanwhile, a decision on a possible sale of the Hummer brand could be announced this quarter. The automaker's restructuring plan must be developed under requirements of a $17.4 billion federal loan package that is keeping GM and Chrysler LLC afloat during an industry-wide sales slump caused by soaring gas prices, low consumer confidence and a credit crunch that ushered in a market downturn described as possibly the worst since the Great Depression.

    Last year, U.S. car and light truck sales plunged 18 percent to 13.24 million vehicles, while GM's sales fell 31.2 percent last month and 22.7 percent for the year.

    Detroit's automakers are all restructuring their businesses to better match production with demand, but they also need the economy to improve so consumers can buy cars and trucks again.

    "Our collective goal has to be to turn this economy around and profitable growth for all of us," Ford Motor Co. CEO Alan Mulally told dealers during a. speech today.

    Ford is not seeking government aid. GM and Chrysler, which both got loans, must file the plans by Feb. 17 and show significant progress in becoming viable companies by March 31 or the U.S. Treasury Department could recall the loans.

    "We'd like to have clarity and narrow our options in February," LaNeve said. "We don't want it to drag on forever."

    Saturn dealers have complained that sales have stalled since GM said the brand was under review. "When the industry declines 40 percent, that messes with them more than anything we've done," LaNeve said. "There is nothing I can say that is going to calm dealers down now."

    The possibility Saturn could survive, however, offers a sliver of hope for the brand's roughly 400 dealers.

    "It would be nice if they realized the strength of Saturn," said Dan Jonuska, a Scottsdale dealer who is a member of Saturn's Franchise Operating Team, which is in talks with GM about the brand's future. "It's a strong brand without a lot of dealers. We know how to sell small cars, which are perceived as green," or more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly.

    "Maybe there will be a little groundswell with our brand," Jonuska said.

    GM executives are scheduled to meet with dealers tomorrow afternoon during the convention.

    GM has about 6,400 U.S. dealers and hopes to dramatically slash that number as a way to cut costs and return to profitability.

    GM wants to eliminate 1,750 dealers within three years. Chrysler and Ford are also working to shrink their U.S. dealer networks.

    The number of dealer cuts is not as important as shaping the profitability of the dealers that remain, executives said today.

    GM wants to have the right number of dealers in the right areas generating enough sales to compete with foreign rivals.

    "Dealers are not the problem," LaNeve said "It doesn't help in the short term to take them out. If I could have half the number of dealers tomorrow, I wouldn't want to do it.

    "We have an obligation to manage the business and make sure we end up with the right dealers in the right location."

    GM wants the average sales of Chevrolet to match Toyota Motor Corp. Cadillac sales should be competitive with Mercedes and BMW and dealers who sell Buick, Pontiac and GMC brands need to compete with Nissan dealers. Saturn, meanwhile, should generate sales that fall somewhere between Honda Motor Co. and Volkswagen.

    http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090124/AUTO01/901240422/1148
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    GM-speak: "If we just wanted to shut it down, we could have announced that," he said. "Saturn may very well have a place" within GM.


    Plain English Translation: "We have trouble admitting we are too complicated. We led you to believe we would shut Saturn down but now that we have the money we don't really want to face that. Maybe we can find a way not to change that much and we will wake up in six months with a strong economy and everything will be OK".
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    GM-speak: "If we just wanted to shut it down, we could have announced that," he said. "Saturn may very well have a place" within GM.

    English: Even with bailout money in our hands we still don't have enough to shut down Saturn. Plus if we say we're keeping Saturn it'd look like we're getting better and consumer confidence will rise back, so more customers will be fooled easily to buy GM.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    so more customers will be fooled easily to buy GM.

    Wrongo, I would not touch a GM or Chrysler product with a 10' pole, even if they had something I wanted. Well, maybe a heck of a deal on a Corvette or a Jeep Wrangler. They would have to be fire sale priced so I could resell and not lose money. Like half price.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Well, that's the propaganda, hope noone's fooled by it.

    I was thinking of something like, well, more like the buy 1 get 1 free at least. ;)
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Steve, actually Montgomery Ward is back from the dead. The current company ahs nothing to do with the old company. They just bought up the name and such after Monkey Wards went bankrupt in 2001.

    My dad worked for them for a few years in maybe the late 60s. They had everything Sears did. Their equivalent of Kenmore was Airline. For a while we had tons of that stuff.

    Maybe this is what happens to GM or Chrysler - they go bankrupt and someone buys up the intellectual property.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    GM wants the average sales of Chevrolet to match Toyota Motor Corp. Cadillac sales should be competitive with Mercedes and BMW and dealers who sell Buick, Pontiac and GMC brands need to compete with Nissan dealers. Saturn, meanwhile, should generate sales that fall somewhere between Honda Motor Co. and Volkswagen.

    Nice Dream. No chance.

    I hope Obama's Car Czar isn't an idiot. I count six brands that will survive. Where are the cuts?????? :mad:

    Unbelievable!! Get ready for the next round of bailouts in March. They either file C11 or this ride becomes the laughing stock of industrial manufacturing history and the US Government.

    Ridiculous. :P

    Regards,
    OW
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Next you'll be telling me that Packard Bell wasn't always a computer company. Until they folded too. Or did they? :P

    I could see a Korean company buying some of GM's intellectual property. Try this logo on for size:

    Genesis - the Cadillac of Hyundais.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Genesis - the Cadillac of Hyundais.

    I love it! Plus, if you loose your income in a year after purchase, they'll take the car back! What's not to love?? :blush:

    Regards,
    OW
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    1983 Renault Alliance: Car and Driver 10 Best Cars
    2002 Ford Thunderbird: Motor Trend Car of the Year
    1971 Chevrolet Vega: Motor Trend Car of the Year
    1997 Cadillac Catera: Automobile All-Stars
    1985 Merkur XR4Ti: Car and Driver 10 Best Cars
    1997 Chevrolet Malibu: Motor Trend Car of the Year
    1990 Lincoln Town Car: Motor Trend Car of the Year
    1980 Chevrolet Citation: Motor Trend Car of the Year
    1974 Ford Mustang II: Motor Trend Car of the Year
    1995 Ford Contour/Mercury Mystique: Car and Driver 10 Best Cars

    http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/846/dishonorable-men- tion-the-10-most-embarrassing-award-winners-in-automotive-history
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    GM wants the average sales of Chevrolet to match Toyota Motor Corp. Cadillac sales should be competitive with Mercedes and BMW and dealers who sell Buick, Pontiac and GMC brands need to compete with Nissan dealers. Saturn, meanwhile, should generate sales that fall somewhere between Honda Motor Co. and Volkswagen.

    Nice Dream. No chance.

    I hope Obama's Car Czar isn't an idiot. I count six brands that will survive. Where are the cuts??????


    There are no cuts unless you count Hummer and Saab, two brands that are so insignificant as far as sales and size that no one would really notice if they went away anyway. You could see this coming a mile away...at first they were going to cut and shrink, but now they somehow think sales should be equivalent to Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, AND Nissan combined?? Based on WHAT pray tell? The sheer arrogance is astounding: they've been losing sales for the past decade and now all of a sudden their sales "should" be at that level? What have they done to EARN that level of sales? No to mention they're once again talking market share rather than profitability, which is a mistake they always make.

    It sounds like they'd rather stay big and unprofitable rather than cut and make money. If their first priority isn't profitability, then let them have the same destiny as any other unprofitable company: bankruptcy and liquidation. Now I'm REALLY mad at GM, and would never even CONSIDER one of their products. Ever.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    From what I read this was sales per dealer were supposed to be at the level of Toyota dealers etc. This doesn't mean they expect their total sales to be that high, it just means they need to cut dealers until they get to this sales level per dealer so the dealers can stay in business (now whether that is realistic or not is another question all together).
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    From what I read this was sales per dealer were supposed to be at the level of Toyota dealers etc. This doesn't mean they expect their total sales to be that high, it just means they need to cut dealers until they get to this sales level per dealer so the dealers can stay in business (now whether that is realistic or not is another question all together).

    Of course it's not realistic, because they'd have to get somewhere below a 1:1 ratio of dealers for it to be. Even if they get a 1:1 ratio of dealers, those numbers still equal to Chevy getting more sales than Toyota, etc etc like I said above. And does anyone thing they can EVER shut down enough dealers to even get down to a 1:1 ratio?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    The Chevy 229 didn't come out until 1980. In 1978-79, Chevy had a 200 (3.3) V-6. It was standard in the Malibu sedan/coupe, but I think the wagon had a Buick 231 standard. I want to say the 231 was standard in the Monte as well, but it's possible the 200 was standard and the 231 a step-up option.

    For 1980, when the 229 came out, it replaced the 200 and was standard in the Monte Carlo and all Malibus. The old 4.1 inline-6 was dropped for that year as well, and the 229 became the standard engine in the Camaro, Impala, and Caprice as well.

    I had a 1980 Malibu with the 229 V-6, and it seemed a decent engine for the time. I'd probably hate driving something that slow nowadays, but back in high school, and this is almost embarrassing to admit, but compared to most of my friends' cars, my Malibu was the "muscle car" of the bunch! :blush:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The sheer arrogance is astounding

    I look at it as sheer ignorance on the part of Wagoner and the GM board of directors. I don't think they can afford to cut brands without filing for C11. They don't have the money and who is going to lend them any to buy out all the dealers. I think they feel they can outlast the weak dealerships. There by lessening the cost to buy out those contracts. Why not just file for bankruptcy and toss it all on the courts to decide who gets what? I just wonder how much of our tax dollars will be wasted before the inevitable failure will occur?
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Member Posts: 1,724
    Fordexpo-

    I totally agree with you! I used to drive an 06 Accord, it was leases, LOVED IT!!
    I was pretty much forced to choose a GM product, so I had to give up my Accord and get an 08 GM car. I was so disappointed. Though the car was loaded with all the options. I never thought I would be driving the car. I never even looked at them. I chose the Pontiac G6, 4cyl, leather, roof.

    But..... I have grown to actually love it! It really is a nicely built car, and to be honest the car is more quiet on the inside than my accord. Has no rattles like my accord had. At first it was hard to get used to the suspension, they are much different, the turning radius really bugs me, its not sharp enough. But, I do have a new perspective on GM.

    Now, do I want to keep the car, is this the car I want? NO. I lease this car, I will have it for 1yr this coming spring. I will walk away when its more practical to do so. Pay off versus my trade values much be better.

    I am a little offended that they have our bail out money, then they get their jet back, the are still putting out yet another SUV, We do not need another SUV. Why is it they throw Honda into the commercial? lol? I am not sure what their new plan is, but seems to me they are not hitting the ground running, Not spending our money wisely. They need to downsize, then slowly work their way back up to snuff. Putting several SUV's out that are on the same plateform, the same thing is not a good way to spend. I am referring to the NEW Traverse SUV, which is also known as the Acadia, outlook, ect.... I am sure I am missing some. The Caddy Escallade Hybrid? Joking right? When are you going to see its pay off? I'll dump it before I ever see the pay off.

    Anyway, just a few examples. They don't make bad products, but are they on par with its competitors? No, even the new malibu, though catches my eye, still not an Accord, the new mazda, Acura. I will enjoy my GM car until I can get either an Acura or Honda back. I also feel I don't want to support GM anymore!
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    GM still needs to advertise its products to attract customers. Their marketting professionals should know what is best bang for buck spent. Does an expensive Super Bowl ad bring in most customers per dollar spent? Does GM support for NASCAR bring in more customers per dollar spent than other forms of advertising or not? Do NASCAR fans make theri car/truck buying decisions irrespective of GM involvement in racing?

    Would agree that GM, as well as Ford and Chrysler, totally drop their racing programs until and when they are sound profit making companies. Let NASCAR and other racing entities revise their series to make do without GM support.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    GM needs to buy more ads at Edmunds naturally. :shades:

    NASCAR is all about the drivers anymore, not the cars. Win Sunday, buy Monday is meaningless these days. Broadcast TV is going the way of newspapers. And then there was that tone-deaf GM robot commercial a few Super Bowls back. Word of mouth is where it's at I think, and that means people talking about their cars. Lemco has probably sold more big iron this year than Tiger Woods.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree that Internet, friends and neighbors can have more influence on car buying than TV or sponsoring sports. Lemko almost has me convinced I need a new Buick. I can tell you I would buy a new Buick before another Lexus. I think Lexus are WAY over priced for what you get.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    What I don't understand about Saturn is that here is a brand that is quite attractive to the right foreign buyer, I am thinking either a Chinese company looking for a way into the U.S. market, or even better a European company looking for a way BACK into our market.

    The European companies could sell their own small and smaller cars through the Saturn network, partner with Opel for the larger models at first, perhaps even buy a North American plant from GM as part of the deal to build some of their volume models right here and avoid the Euro exchange rate problem.

    I am assuming the Chinese could just start wholesaling their own models through the Saturn network and it wouldn't be a profitability problem for them all to be manufactured in China and exported to us.

    I know that the global economy is down, and the glib explanation offered that no-one wants to buy the Saturn brand is that no-one can raise the cash right now, but I can't believe that is all there is to it. GM ought to be trying a lot harder than it is to sell the Saturn brand and get that overhead out of their books.

    And even then, it still seems they are betraying their promises of only a few weeks ago, to have such bold plans for the Pontiac brand. As an offshoot of Holden with annual sales of around 100K, focusing on per-unit profit rather than volume, I could call it a niche brand. But not with the recently announced plans for it....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >GM needs to buy more ads at Edmunds naturally.

    But the ads are negated by the continual drumbeat of how awful GM cars are in the topics. This is despite signs from rating services that the trend has changed and the number of problems in the inital ownership is the same as the popular brands thought to be the ultimate.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I know that the global economy is down, and the glib explanation offered that no-one wants to buy the Saturn brand is that no-one can raise the cash right now, but I can't believe that is all there is to it.

    The simple fact is that almost anything can be sold at any time, if the Seller is willing to take what it is worth. What it is worth = the highest amount anyone offers at the time. For example GM stock was worth $30/share two years ago, now its worth $4. Saturn was worth $X 2 years ago, now it's worth Y. The problem is GM is unwilling to sell at Y, but they certainly could. There are individuals and companies that would be willing to offer GM $50M or so, for Saturn assets.

    Similarly Cerberus could sell Chrysler tomorrow.

    Why don't GM and Cerberus sell? Because they have a better deal from Uncle Sam. We and the government have the chance to call their bluff and make GM and Cerberus sell, and recreate these car companies under capable management.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Pontiac and Saturn have just sponsored a youth baseball and soccer tournament in my area. If this is what they're gonna do with the rest of the bailout money, might as well send them to the grave now.
    Ch.11, please.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Nascar top series has cars that all share same body/frame/safety design. Only front and rear end fascias have elements that mimic styling of car sponsor (Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Toyota). If GM and Ford, Chrysler pulled all sponsorship, then racing teams could use generic styles on front/rear ends just like amusement park cars. Without auto mfr funding NASCAR racing could be like HHRA dragsters. There is no auto brand identity with these racers. Dragster engines are very special design and not from an American auto mfr.

    Somone should find way for GM to discover Lemko; to sell its big cars. This would be like that guy who ate nothing but subway sandwiches for 10 years, lost weight and then became a subway spokesman. The ads GM could do with Lemko would be about a real person with decades of great experiences with many GM cars.

    In these days of pragmatics, shoppers for new cars/vehicles could relate more to Lemko than to stupid and extravagent commercials. Such as one in recent years of a GM car racing to get on a moving car transporter. Maybe GM marektting could even do a comercial of a 10 year old Lemko desiring the finer things in llife, such as GM, at an early age. This would be like the Lexus Christmas commercial of a 30ish young lady getting a new RX350 reminiscing about when as a child she got a pony for Christmas.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    When we talk about "selling the Saturn brand", what exactly would someone get for the money?

    There are no "Saturn specific" manufacturing plants - Aura shares the line with the G6 and Malibu, the Outlook with the Traverse, Enclave and Acadia, the Sky with the Solstice and Vauxhall/Opel GT and the Astra is built in Europe.

    I think that the plant in Mexico that makes the VUE doesn't build anything else - yet.

    Are you suggesting that if a foreign automaker bought the brand they could sell their cars under the Saturn brand name?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043

    Pontiac and Saturn have just sponsored a youth baseball and soccer tournament in my area.


    It would not be corporate GM sponsoring a local youth baseball / soccer tournament. Sure it was not local dealers?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    They would get the Saturn name and dealer franchise and that is about it. They could also, if they want, continue to have GM supply product until they have their own product available (assume whoever it is is from China or somewhere else and have their own cars to ship). Also could get a couple plants if they want but I doubt any one would.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Even if it was corporate, and not just a local dealer, isn't that still a nice public outreach thing? You know, good will to the public, giving back to the community, and so on?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    You know, good will to the public, giving back to the community, and so on?

    So they're taking the money that they got from the community (and that the community did NOT want to give them) and giving some of it back? Well, isn't that sweet....NOT! :mad:
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I would think you would get the plant in TN, the machinery in the plant, the existing inventory of Saturn parts, the inventory of completed and semi-completed vehicles and the molds for Saturn specific models for starters.

    You would also get the assembly instructions and such. Maybe part of the deal is a contract to purchase the shared parts from GM, for a set amount.

    If Saturn loses $ for GM each year, it would be far better for GM to sell it for whatever it can get, rather than continue to lose each year.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Funny you should bring that up. I was with my girlfriend at the car wash and we spotted a new black Lexus LS coming out of the automatic car wash waiting to be dried by the attendants, (I feel bad for these guys doing this thankless job in the frigid weather). I commented that I test drove one of them some time back and that it felt just like driving a Park Avenue.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I was leafing through the new Consumer Reports car guide just to see how bad they slammed my Cadillac DTS and suprise, suprise, suprise! They have it as one of their recommended buys. Shoot, if THESE people at C/R think GM is a good buy it should convince you import fanboys that things have changed over at the General's.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    But the ads are negated by the continual drumbeat of how awful GM cars are in the topics.

    Name just about any car and I can find you some negative posts in the topics. (Weren't you and I talking not that long ago about those ~5,000 Toyota gel/sludge comments?). People are pretty grumpy in general aren't they? Or too lazy to write about how painless their car experience has been (another attaboy for Lemko). But most people know to take posts and personal stories with a grain of salt too.

    I suppose you have to have the ads to get people talking about the cars in the first place.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    As I told Rocky, Saturn will not be replacing any models. Saturn is history. What they do with the dealers is the question. 400 dealers is about $2 billion in franchise buy out cost.

    General Motors’ Saturn brand isn’t expected to be included in the company’s viability plan — set to be handed into the U.S. government next month — but that doesn’t mean GM’s youngest brand will be going away overnight.

    In fact, the Saturn brand won’t be going anywhere for at least four years. At a recent Saturn dealer meeting, GM revealed that it has allocated enough cash to keep Saturn vehicles in production until 2012, with some models guaranteed through 2013.

    However, Saturn’s existence beyond 2013 is uncertain at best. “We’re working all the options,” GM sales and marketing head Mark LaNeve told Automotive News. “We’d love to find a way to continue the brand, but there’s nothing definitive I can tell you today.” A decision about the future of the Saturn brand is expected to be made next month.

    With most production only guaranteed until 2012, Saturn’s future outlook is looking bleaker than ever. If the brand is in fact a lame duck, GM will spend little in the way of new product offerings. That means Saturn could finish in 2013 with an unspectacular lineup of 6-year-old vehicles.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    (I feel bad for these guys doing this thankless job in the frigid weather)

    I always thank them and give them a nice tip!

    As for a Park Ave driving as nice as an LS series Lexus, whatever. Talk about overpriced crap (at least from '97-05). At least you won't find the the LS's powertrain in a $20/day fleet queen as you do with the wheeze box powering the Park Ave in every other mediocre GM W body. Nor do you hear about blown head gaskets, bad intake manifolds, misaligned body panels, and electrical gremlins etc. I've been around enough Park Ave's to know that those cars are far from well built (grandpa had a '97 and a '00 that were both junk). They do make perfect hoopty cars though.

    You must have an acquired taste for those cars, kinda like how my grandpa liked his Park Ave and Milwaukee's Best. How you can drive your old Park Ave after driving the DTS is beyond me. I know I couldn't and wouldn't do it. I haven't driven a Park Ave since having to drive my grandpa's '00 PA from Tampa to Ohio back in 03. I think I made up new words to describe that car during that trip. I almost floated off the road trying to navigate I-77 through WV and almost driven insane by the windshield wipers that turned off and on on their own for a 1000 miles regardless if I had them on or off.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Advertising rates/cost is down everywhere. Nascar cost has dropped tremendously this year.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Shoot, if THESE people at C/R think GM is a good buy it should convince you import fanboys that things have changed over at the General's.

    Nope, can't be based on data, they are now biased against the imports. At least that's what the GM faithful always said when CR reported poor quality and performance regarding the domestics;)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I would think you would get the plant in TN, the machinery in the plant

    Why would they get the plant that builds the Traverse? Makes no sense to me.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Does GM have an obligation to provide new product lines to the Saturn dealers? What if they just keep what they have and sales slow down and disappear? Something along the lines of Sanyo Computer dealers? What I'm asking is do they have to buy them out or can the business for that line just dwindle away and the dealers switch to Honda or Toyota or whatever they like or just close.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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