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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    It sure sounds like that has been lost already. What's it been 1 or 1.5 months?

    Is Jan. sales any better, especially now that GMAC has financing? Noooooo. "He (President and COO) also said January U.S. sales were looking a lot like December, which was among the worst months in the past quarter-century."

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-01-21-gm-cash_N.htm
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    1) The parties are still talking about changing, instead of already being in the midst of the changes. They don't have a crisis-mentality!

    2) From my previous USA Today link, it sounds like the UAW and management are still not rowing in the same direction.

    3) GM is not planning for a worst-case economy, but merely one that is steady. The economy has a good chance of continuing to fall. I saw an article this morning where Bank of America is looking for another $80B infusion. Every banks' assets continue to decline in value.

    4) GM needs to stop losing $4B per month! I thought I was dreaming, when I saw some football bowl games this year that were sponsored by Pontiac!
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Thanks for the link, Jae.

    Hmm, very interesting. Fiat was in terrible shape before 2004, but ever since 2007 they've been on steady profit. How is it possible that it barely survives all of a sudden? I'm not sure on how that works...
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Remeber that there will some very severe crisis that Obama will have to deal with early in his term. Joe Biden said so back in October. Smooth talking Joe also said that Americans will probably not like Obama's response but to stick with him anyway.

    Might this crisis have something to do with GM or with a middle east nation or what?
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Why keep Chevy? If GM were forced by someone to redo their business and have only one brand, it would be Chevrolet. Chevrolet brand has overall most sales, most name recognition of all GM brands, has some great models currently such as Malibu, Corvette, Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, and decent Impala brand. In contrast, Pontiac and Buick have trashed their heritage model names such as GTO, Lemans, GrandPrix, Bonneville, LeSabre, Park Avenue, Century, Regal, etc. Except for Pontiac Solstice, G8 (Australian), Buick Enclave there are no other notable models in Pontiac and Buick. Solstice, G8 and Enclave could be rebadged to Chevrolet and hardly anyone would shed a tear except associated dealers.

    Think that Buick is still viewed as old person's car, except in China. Maybe Pontiac fading away as Oldsmobile, Plymouth did.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    To add to your post, Buick, Saturn and Pontiac combined for under 600k in total sales last year.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Just went to the auto show. The new LaCrosse interior really blows away the ES350. Much nicer. Will wait and see what the media does in comparisons.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    Yes, Fiat was shaky for awhile. But it seemed like soon after they got the divorce from GM (along with that $2.5B bye-bye cash) they started a slow and steady climb. This tie-up with Fiat was somewhat of a surprise (especially remembering the Lebaron rebadged into the Maserati TC) but then again it wasn't. It seems that Chrysler is slowly turning into a Magna, where they're building other manufacturer's products. They have the Nissan truck, the VW van, now the Fiat tie-up. They used to have Lambo, believe they had a Lotus tie-up if I'm not mistaken, Shelby somewhat with the pocket-rockets & Viper. I wonder if they'll still have the Chery vehicles in the works.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    62,

    Do you think the Camaro will really help with Chevy market share? I think it's no more than a niche and may be a very tiny small blip in terms of sales. Could be wrong (hope so in GM's case).

    Were you able to make it to the "pre-Auto Show" last week in Detroit? Mostly for suppliers and the press previews but was wondering if you had made it. Got to go around and check out some things for a few projects we have going and possible future ones.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Camaro will not be a volume vehicle like the original. If they can sell 10k a month I would think that would be pretty good in this economy(mustang sells 15k). Of course the first year it should be higher but then will level off pretty quick. But every sale helps and it will draw people into the show room. It is darn sharp and with the 300hp V6 gets 26 mpg (2 mpg better than mustang). And it starts at an affordable $22k.

    Did not make it last week but just got back. Every company had some kind of electric car. Toyota hid their pickup truck as did Ford.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Wow! Can't wait to see it. Girlfriend said she would most definitely buy another LaCrosse. She talks about her Buick as others might their Lexus, Mercedes, or BMW.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    We have the old LaCrosse right now. It is a very well put together vehicle with expensive interior materials with tight fits. The only issue is that it is very mundane. The new one really adds a lot of style both inside and out.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    General Motors will go to market with four core brands in the future: Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC. Pontiac will be shrunk "significantly," a senior GM executive told the Automotive News World Congress tonight.
    GM COO Fritz Henderson said that GM is conducting a strategic review of its Saab and Hummer brands and that the "status quo" for the Saturn brand will not work.

    "We need to do something different with the Saturn brand," he said.

    Henderson stopped short of saying GM would outright shutter the brand, but he made it clear that it would not remain in the same capacity and form it is today.

    Likewise, GM is working with the Swedish government on a plan to help the Saab brand.

    "We're engaged with the Swedish government as we speak," Henderson said. "We've talked to investors and we'll see where it goes."

    Three-quarters of Saab sales are in Europe, he said. "Saab is not a U.S. strategy."

    Henderson said the four core brands comprised 83 percent of GM's total sales volume in the United States last year.

    Going forward, the Pontiac brand will "shrink substantially," Henderson said. But the fact that GM is investing heavily in the Buick brand in China will benefit that brand in the United States.

    "When you see the new LaCrosse, it will be very familiar to the one you've seen GM reveal in China," Henderson said.

    If oil prices remain low, GM would be challenged to successfully sell key future vehicles such as the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid sedan, he said. But GM is planning its future business around oil being $130 to $160 a barrel in the next few years. GM is projecting oil will be average about $53 a barrel in 2009, he said.

    During his speech, Henderson outlined the volatile markets that led to GM's cash crisis late last year. He said that if GM does not get the second installment of the $13.4 billion loan the government granted, it will run out of cash before the end of March. GM is expecting a payment of $5.4 billion in the next few days, Henderson said. That payment was originally due last week, but was delayed by the change in administration.

    The government gave GM the first installment of $4 billion on Dec. 31.

    GM is working with its stakeholders to refine the viability plan it submitted to Congress on Dec. 2. In that plan, GM said it would direct most of its marketing and engineering resources toward Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC.

    Henderson said GM's next challenge isn't just streamlining operations and developing advanced technology, it's also fixing its public image.

    "Our job is not only to build vehicles people want to buy," Henderson said. "But to communicate that people want to buy our vehicles."

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Pontiac is a goner. Chevy is their bread an butter.

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    A little off the subject but the newspaper had some facts on the teaming up.

    Chrysler sells 2.1 million cars in '08, Fiat 2.5 million

    C has 51k employees, F 185K

    C has 30 plants, F has 178

    C has 3 brands, F has 6(alfa, fiat, Ferrari, Maserati, Abarth, Lancia)

    F sells most all its vehicles in Europe and South America while Chrysler is only NA. They have little Africa/Asia/Russia sales

    They basically sell the same number of vehicles but F has over 3 x the employees and 6 times the plants.

    This does look like a good merger for both.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    A bit off topic, but:

    They used to have Lambo, believe they had a Lotus tie-up if I'm not mistaken, Shelby somewhat with the pocket-rockets & Viper.

    Yeah they used to have a majority share in Lambo but sold it right away after they sent the company falling off cliff, to the son of former Indonesian dictator (okay, president :P ) in the early 90s.

    I wonder if they'll still have the Chery vehicles in the works.

    Don't count on it. Chery guys never really intended to join forces w/ Chrysler, they intended to buy it. When news in US said Chrysler was going to co-develop cars with Chery, all the talks in China was how Chery was going to take over Chrysler.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Then you're going to see Wagoner and Gettelfinger and the other boys later in the year when things are really bad, say "Well no one foresaw how bad things could get, and we would have been okay in 2009 if Congress and the president did (or didn't) do X ...."

    Kernick! - How could you have known? Are you bugging the GM offices or something? ;);)
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    1) The parties are still talking about changing, instead of already being in the midst of the changes. They don't have a crisis-mentality!

    Why have urgency when you can go to your rich uncle for a bailout?

    2) From my previous USA Today link, it sounds like the UAW and management are still not rowing in the same direction.

    Not surprising. Why should UAW give anything up - they got those benes and salaries from

    4) GM needs to stop losing $4B per month! I thought I was dreaming, when I saw some football bowl games this year that were sponsored by Pontiac!

    Well supposedly the amount of money GM needs is enough for the entire year if sales run at $10.5M (which they probably won't). If they instead need $4B/month then it is $48B through the end of 2009, which is more like all of our predictions 1-2 months ago. If it ends up that way by the end of the year then can we fire GM's financial planners and hire those of us who predicted this? We could all earn their big bucks. Heck, even Obama has frozen salaries of high level staffers in the White House. Has the UAW frozen their salaries?

    You are completely correct that there is not nearly enough sense of urgency here. Goldfinger is whining about how there's not enough time to work on restructuring before late February deadline. Did he work urgently on this through the holidays?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    GM is conducting a strategic review of its Saab and Hummer brands

    Seems that GM has been doing that for months. Isn't this just management-speak for "nobody wants to buy these makes"?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    They have already put that info in the restructuring contract.

    http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/ne- wspublisher/support_file/12-02-2008/38/081202%20Congressional%20Submission%20Fin- al.pdf

    At this moment, based upon near-term industry and sales order conditions, it is probable that this Downside Scenario would unfold for the first quarter of 2009.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    yes
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Well supposedly the amount of money GM needs is enough for the entire year if sales run at $10.5M (which they probably won't). If they instead need $4B/month then it is $48B through the end of 2009, which is more like all of our predictions 1-2 months ago.

    Please see page 13 of the restructuring plan. The reason for the loan is to allow GM time to restructure their business so that they can spend $4 billion / month less. Many of the restructuring strategies in the plan were already in place but would not have happened till later in '09. The agreement is to move these into the first quarter of '09 and do more with the help of the hammer of the government. And yes if things do go below worst case then most likely GM will need more loans to maintain liquidity. It is all spelled out in the plan.

    http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/ne- wspublisher/support_file/12-02-2008/38/081202%20Congressional%20Submission%20Fin- al.pdf
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    A good metric for most companies is revenue per employee. Looks like Fiat is a loser. And, they want 2B from US gov to do the deal.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Where did the 2 billion come from? There was an article that showed that Fiat has been doing very well since GM bought out there put option.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    And yes if things do go below worst case then most likely GM will need more loans to maintain liquidity

    Well if sales do go below worst-case, then the numbers of the WHOLE plan need to be redone. The numbers would be worthless!

    And it is interesting that GM's worst-case is not even as low as Johnson's Control expected 2009 sales of 9.3M. How can GM predict a low which is a high expectation for others in the industry. Do you understand why? Because if GM put a true worst-case in their plan - something around 8M it would show they are not viable. And they would not be viable at 9.3M.

    And why would we loan them more money. GM will be in such a hole, they'd never make enough profit to even pay the interest on the loans!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    General Motors Corp.’s 77-year run as the world’s largest-selling
    automaker has come to an end, beaten by Toyota Motor Corp.

    The Detroit automaker announced today that it sold 8.35 million cars and
    trucks across the globe in 2008 – a 10.8% decline compared with 2007.

    Toyota sold 622,000 more cars and trucks throughout the world. The
    Japanese automaker announced Tuesday that its global sales number was
    8.972 million in 2008 – a 4% decline compared with a year earlier.

    Excluding mini-vehicle maker Daihatsu Motor and truck unit Hino Motors,
    Toyota’s global sales fell 5% to 7.9 million vehicles.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    General Motors, despite the bad press, led all manufacturers by retaining 62.5% of its owners who bought cars in 2008. Silverado pickup retained 32.77% of customers, best among pickups. Chevy Suburban retained 20.42%, best among full-sized SUVs. Corvette led luxury sports cars with 23.9%. Chevy Impala led the full-size car segment with 34%

    Honda led all nameplates with 56.5%.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    http://suvs.about.com/b/2009/01/21/a-one-on-one-interview-with-james-e-taylor-ce- o-of-hummer.htm

    At the North American International Auto Show, I had the opportunity to
    chat one-on-one with James E. Taylor, Chief Executive Officer of HUMMER.

    Jim Taylor has been with General Motors since 1980, working at Saturn,
    Opel, Worldwide Purchasing and GM Truck. His most recent position was as
    General Manager for the Cadillac brand. In mid-October of 2008, Mr.
    Taylor took over as the CEO of HUMMER. He's been charged with the
    present operation of the brand, and with formulating its future
    strategy.

    ABOUT: I'm a fan of the HUMMER brand. My favorite is H3 Alpha. I hope it
    can stay in the market.

    JAMES E. TAYLOR: Staying in the market -- we can get to the key topic
    fast, which is what everybody's wondering about, especially from a
    customer standpoint. And the dealers, too. My role in life right now is
    to make sure that happens and to go out and canvass the investment
    market and find a new mother that wants to invest in the future. You
    can't just sell what you've got, you've got to be hiring, and
    reinventing the next gens of whatever -- H3s, H2s...

    In the world that we're heading toward the big challenge for all HUMMERs
    and all SUVs is to try to comply with the world that Washington has
    elected to describe, non-negotiably, in 2011, '12 and on out to '17, is
    going to make it extremely difficult for all SUV manufacturers to
    comply. It's almost like they've worked themselves backwards to
    pre-decide that customers should not be permitted to buy SUVs. It's a
    bit of an Orwellian state we're headed towards.

    The world of SUVs, the face of the SUV world is going to change
    dramatically in the next four or five years. People who don't pay
    attention to this industry will wake up in four or five years and look
    around and go, "Hey! What happened to my truck?" Oh, you should have
    been paying attention five years ago when your Congressmen were voting
    on a future state that sounded good but is really going to
    premeditatively decide the fate of large trucks. So, that's our
    challenge, to stay in front of that and to make sure that we come up
    with the kind of powertrain solutions that are going to allow us to get
    into that space.

    ABOUT: I assume that you're looking globally as well, beyond North
    America...

    TAYLOR: Yes, absolutely. Even this year, a third of our volume is
    global. People think of HUMMER as an American brand, but as the US
    economy shrank faster this year than the rest of the world, it was
    heading even higher than 30% of our volume. We're looking sales-wise
    more than the US, but also from powertrains. Right now we're gearing up
    for a diesel for the rest of the world that we've finished the
    engineering to implement. Okay, if that became a play, is that something
    that we should bring here, too?


    ABOUT: Any regional specificity on where the interest is coming from? Is
    it the East?

    TAYLOR: No specificity. The answer is yes, it's not an American company.
    The good news is, with this broad footprint, and what's going on the
    rest of the world, I come back to the product and what it does.
    Developing countries are "developing" for a reason; the road
    infrastructures and the driving conditions aren't pretty everywhere.
    You're not just talking about driving around downtown LA. These vehicles
    lend themselves perfectly to those opening-up markets of India, China,
    Russia, all of those kinds of places. Therefore, the investment people
    in those countries are interested too.

    Some investors are just bankers. They are looking to buy a pure return
    on investment. But other investors have a desire for the investment
    they're making to make sense for the country that they live in. Luckily,
    because of the appeal of HUMMER worldwide, the investment community
    that's looking at it is also worldwide.

    ABOUT: Has GM placed any time constraints on you?

    TAYLOR: Yes. Well, Washington has put some constraints on us. As part of
    this loan process, as part of documenting our future state. To grossly
    oversimplify what's going on in Washington, they need proof that we have
    a sustainable business model. End of story.

    ABOUT: You mean GM.

    TAYLOR: GM. As part of that, this mountain of loan documents that have
    to go to them, you're just defending your business case going forward,
    to show that you're a viable financial entity. If you were any bank loan
    officer, you'd want to make sure that you get your money back. So it's
    completely logical that they'd want that in place. So as part of that --
    it's public information -- February, March is when the government's
    going to make its decisions as to how much more they're going to give us
    and whether they'll let us keep what we've got. So, likewise, GM is
    submitting its master business plan of what its approach is going to be.
    HUMMER is a piece of that puzzle. They'll say, okay, here's what we're
    doing with HUMMER. So, the time constraint that's placed on me is we
    have to play our cards out in this first quarter to say we have serious
    buying partners who are interested in buying the brand, or not. That's
    our deadline.

    ABOUT: And if the answer is "or not," is it a restructuring within GM or
    do you think the brand goes away?

    TAYLOR: We've been adamant about calling it a "strategic evaluation" in
    order to keep those doors open. Whether to have to shrink it inside the
    GM system and continue to manage it here, because we have the dealer
    network; or, a wind-down. To be overly honest, those are all
    possibilities. Unfortunately.

    I'm optimistic. I won't make any commitments, because all these internal
    things and all the stuff in Washington. But if you just asked me today,
    do I think we'll find a buyer -- well, I think we will. The brand is
    very well-received by a small group of people. But for those who like
    it, they love it. They're passionate about it. I still think there's a
    volume future. Sometimes when brands go away, there stopped being a
    customer base, and out of necessity you have to make a cold, hard
    decision. But there's a strong customer base for this product.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    Read that earlier '62. I hope GM realizes this shouldn't be their focus right now, but to stay afloat and do what they can to remain afloat.

    Even Toyota down-played it since everyone is seeing sales drop and this recession is getting worse.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    So the only reason GM led all manufacturers is because they have more nameplates than any other manufacturer? :shades:

    I'd like to see GM's loyalty breakdown by nameplate, that would be very interesting as far as how each nameplate stacks up against the other nameplates in the industry. Might also give us a vague idea of how GM's loyalty would fare if they have to drop nameplates.

    Incidentally, what's the competition to the Suburban...I hope they're including the Armada, Land Cruiser, and Expedition at least...actually, maybe at most, since there arent' that many full-size SUVs, and definitely none as full-sized as the Suburban. ;)
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Incidentally, what's the competition to the Suburban...I hope they're including the Armada, Land Cruiser, and Expedition at least...actually, maybe at most, since there arent' that many full-size SUVs, and definitely none as full-sized as the Suburban. ;)

    The Expedition EL is basically the same size as the Suburban and the regular Expedition a bit larger than a Tahoe. I think the Armada will be gone soon. I wouldn't be surprised if the Durango is gone soon either. Unless the EPA does something to make it nearly impossible to build a Suburban, I think the Expedition and Suburban will still have enough demand to continue particularly if some of the competition dies off.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    How big is the Sequoia by comparison? Not big enough to compete with the biggest boys?! I wonder how much of a future the Sequoia has these days, although it was one of the few Toyota models to show a sales increase last year.

    Very interesting to read the interview with the Hummer CEO, thanks 62! I had to chuckle when he expressed his view that we are heading towards an Orwellian society with increasing government regulation of emissions - no surprise there, coming from the Hummer CEO, eh? ;-)

    I don't exactly understand how Honda can have the highest customer retention among individual nameplates, at 56%, if GM's average is 62.5%. Surely that must mean that one of its nameplates had higher than 62.5% retention?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    If the Volt was out now, and the batteries only lasted 2 years, how would GM be raked over the coals????

    IF they were honest with the public and told them the Volt will only last 2 years, then they wouldn't be raked over the coals at all!!! Honesty keeps the customer from being suprised and shocked. They just need to be upfront with the truth and reality.

    If Chrysler was honest with me back in 1994 and told me all their vehicles were designed to be relatively halfway decent up until the 36 month and 36,000 mile mark, at which point they basically self destruct, I wouldn't still be mad at the Big 3 today. All they had to do was be honest and admit they were designed, engineered, and built to be temporary vehicles that would make them a lot of money due to the fact you have to replace every part every 3 years. I regret purchasing so many Mopar parts, I should have driven that car off a cliff when the warranty ended.

    However, if Chrysler was honest with me in 1994, I probably would have opted for a Civic as my first car, so Volt sales might be diminished if GM is truthful.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • robbiegrobbieg Member Posts: 350
    I understand that GM sells more Chevys than anything else but my point is does the brand Chevy really have a positive image. I think of a Chevy as cheap transportation. Don't you think Honda is more upscale than Chevy?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The new Sequoia is pretty big. I believe it's about 3 inches longer than a Tahoe and an inch or two shorter than a standard Expedition. Obviously the Expedition EL and Suburban are both probably 10-12 inches longer than the Sequioa.

    The new Sequoia is a heck of a vehicle. Though expensive with options. But it has a a high tow rating and a very good powertrain, but i don't care for the styling inside and out.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I don't exactly understand how Honda can have the highest customer retention among individual nameplates, at 56%, if GM's average is 62.5%. Surely that must mean that one of its nameplates had higher than 62.5% retention?

    That's why I want to see the figures for GM's individual nameplates. But I'm thinking it's not an average but a total of the average loyalty from each nameplate (Chevy's average loyalty plus Caddy's plus Buick's etc.).
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I'd say Chevy's scores are boosted by trucks and full-size SUVs. I don't know many people who willing suffer through multiple Chevy cars. But trucks and Suburbans have a loyal following.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Absolutely, Honda is more upscale....because GM allowed Chevy to become that way. Until the 2008 'Bu, all the cars were a few ticks down in quality and desirability than Honda.

    The intent of GM going forward should be to concentrate on 2 Divisions. Of course this will never happen because it is too darned difficult....or is it??

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Actually, it's a mute point since GM is continually loosing market share...the loyalty is going elsewhere.

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    http://usa.polk.com/Company/Loyalty/default.htm

    Polk only gives out the winners. You gotta buy the data to get the rest.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    It is the Honda DIVISION that has the highest loyalty rate. Meaning 56% on Honda owners buy another Honda product.

    For GM it is the Marque that has the highest loyalty rate. Meaning 62.5% of GM buyers buy another GM product. My dad bought a Impala to replace his LaCrosse so he loyal to GM but not Buick.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My Grandpop bought nothing but Chevrolets from 1964 on. I understand Cadillac has the greatest customer loyalty of all. Heck, I believe it! I'm on my fifth Cadillac myself! I'm also fiercely loyal to Buick. My girlfriend said she'd definitely buy another Buick.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    My Grandpop bought nothing but Chevrolets from 1964 on. I understand Cadillac has the greatest customer loyalty of all. Heck, I believe it! I'm on my fifth Cadillac myself! I'm also fiercely loyal to Buick. My girlfriend said she'd definitely buy another Buick.

    If you were the typical auto / GM customer, we'd be discussing whether or not GM should be broke up due to being a monopoly.

    My grandpa was a loyal Buick and Olds buyer for decades since Studebaker closed up.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    On other powertrain topics, Stephen said:

    By 2011, about 21 percent of GM's engine output will be turbocharged four-cylinders. GM plans to replace some V-6 engines with direct-injected turbocharged four-cylinders like the engines used in the Pontiac Solstice GXP, which makes 260 hp out of 2.0 liters.


    So in other words, GM is about 6 years behind Audi/VW in using sophisticated high technology engines since the latter has been using DI Turbocharged 4 cylinder engines like the 2.0T since 2005 in their 2006 models.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    How much is the data? Maybe if we all kick in we can get our hands on it.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Honda makes premium vehicles.

    Yes, they are a few pegs up the ladder from Chevy.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The next Astra will ride on GM’s new Delta II platform and will likely share GM’s new turbo 1.4L, which will also see duty in the Chevrolet Volt and Cruze.

    The 2009/2010 Astra will receive heavy influences from the new Insignia – which could show up in the U.S. as the next-generation Saturn Aura – both in styling and technology packages. The most innovative technology that will find its way aboard the Astra will be the Insignia’s Front Camera System. FCS not only acts as a lane departure warning system, but can actually recognize roadside signage, such as speed limit signs.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Member Posts: 1,724
    This is the point all along, you get in a base Honda Civic, then perhaps get in a new 08 Malibu, though quite nice, the new civic still seems to be more upscale, solid, more hefty if you will. You can get a base Honda and still value there, but get in a base GM car and you tend to feel its cheaper feel. The features that GM cars offer are very nice and intuitive to what we want, but without those, it wouldn't be much of a car, just a rental type feel. Point A to Point B kind of car. When you get in a Honda, even though a base model, you still feel good in it. Seems to be more engineered to the drive and build rather using the features to sorta cover it up if they happen to be falling short in that segment, like GM. Though, you cannot get that kind of feel if you are mass producing cars, and if your goal is to get the most out on the road. You'll somehow come up short. We are finding that there are other cars, not just Honda, that can provide that higher end feel. People, are seeming to branch out a bit, see what others have to offer. I think it might be fair to say that a few loyal GM fans could leave the brand for other options that could suit them better in the long run. Many, perhaps might feel a bit uneasy about buying a GM car, now that they are struggling. Though, when it comes to good deals, it might be hard to turn down.

    I wish all the best for GM, but they really need to evaluate what they have going on that is good and bad, then move from their. They obviously need to change. I just hope they don't let us down. They hold the industry up.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    No surprise. They can catch up quick,however, as evidenced by the UPCOMING CTS-V...the old one was a miss, as usual. The new one is a different car altogether.

    After years of cloaked incompetence, it seems like they are starting to produce some winners.

    Regards,
    OW
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    So in other words, GM is about 6 years behind Audi/VW in using sophisticated high technology engines

    Or my '07 Mazdaspeed 6. Maybe in 2015 they'll combine that with AWD. ;)
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