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http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=444
I was amazed that Dodge would release a brand new Ram that would do so poorly in crash tests in this day and age. Even GM with the Silverado/Sierra is remiss here, given that the current model was released so recently (relatively speaking).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I will be interested to see the report to Congress next week showing the Worst Case Scenario. If they do not revise it down, It will be no surprise to me. They have bigger fish to fry.
GM spokesman Greg Martin said the plan will be submitted to the Treasury Department on Tuesday afternoon with a press conference to follow. He declined to comment on the specific issues that remain to be hashed out, other than to say GM is on track.
"Our sleeves are rolled up and we're working on it," Martin said, "We're confident that we'll deliver a good, solid plan that shows a roadmap to viability."
Still, the flexibility of bondholders and the United Auto Workers continues to be seen as a major sticking point. According to J.P. Morgan analyst Himanshu Patel, a bankruptcy filing could be the eventual outcome if GM fails to hammer out the necessary concessions.
In fact, GM bondholders are threatening to push the company into bankruptcy if they don't get more money in exchange for forgiving debt, the Detroit News reported Thursday.
GM is working on a debt exchange that would slash its unsecured debt by two- thirds to $9.2 billion. The company is seeking to halve its $62 billion in total debt under the terms of the $13.4-billion loan package, with bondholders required to accept about 30 cents on the dollar.
But creditors are looking for 50 cents on the dollar, which they say mirrors the value of concessions being negotiated with the United Auto Workers, the Detroit News said.
In the meantime, the pace of the industry deterioration has not slowed. GM's January U.S. vehicle sales plunged 49% to headline the worst sales month in decades. Chrysler's results were even worse, down 55% as none of the major automakers were spared.
GM's stock price has shown no sign of a rebound, either, having lost 19% since the start of 2009. The spiraling Dow component has shed more than 90% of its value in the past year.
On the jobs front, the carnage is piling up. GM is currently offering buyouts to its entire hourly workforce and also said earlier this week that it will cut 10,000 salaried positions.
Bankruptcy is no foregone conclusion, however, considering the Obama administration's apparent willingness to keep the ailing industry on life support and to avoid putting further pressure on an economy that has already seen the loss of almost 3 million jobs.
"I honestly don't think bankruptcy is on the table any more," auto industry analyst Erich Merkle said. "In the end, if the White House allows GM to go into bankruptcy, the government could eventually end up owning the whole company. We don't want that."
He added that there is still a lot of work to be done to get creditors and the union on board, and that "we're not going to see concessions fall from the sky."
"This is a game of chicken and my gut says we're going right down to the wire, " Merkle said, alluding to March 31 -- the final deadline for GM and Chrysler to prove their painful restructuring and cost-cutting measures have put them on the road to viability.
Regards,
OW
see cnn.money.com
I linked directly to the Tundra photo on the iihs web site.
I'll trust them over CNN, thanks.
I think you are off a little on your price. A 17 KW genset $4,000:
http://zillerelectric.com/Kohler_Generators/Kohler_Generator_17RES.html
OTOH it's interesting how Buick has improved over the years up to a true near luxo player. Though I still think they're lacking in the engineering and design side I agree that the reliability is improving rapidly.
Avalon, ah yes, I have to disagree with nvbanker on this one. Not sure about reliability but IMO the build quality is a joke compared to a LaCrosse (albeit the situation changes when we're talking technology). Which honestly shows how much Toyota has degraded itself over the past few years...
I still think the same, upgrade Buick and merge it with Cadillac to add somekind of a value line to the brand. It'll give GM a better chance to compete with Lexus. Lets see... a Cadillac styled LaCrosse or a Lexus ES (Lexus-Camry to be exact) .... dumb question, I'll take the Cadillac Lacrosse. :shades:
I have to agree that GM technology in both audio and climate control surpasses Toyota. My 2005 GMC PU with Bose system was head and shoulders above the JBL system in my Sequoia Limited. The individual climate control in the GMC was also better than the 2007 Sequoia. However the fit and finish of the Sequoia is far, far better than the GMC. Both built by Hoosiers. I looked at the 2008 Sequoia and don't think it compares to the 2007 in fit and finish. They are cutting corners at Toyota to come down to the D3 level.
Where is 62? Used cars selling briskly?
Auto Prices About To Crash
With unsold cars stacking up by the day, demand falling faster, and bailout silliness getting sillier, I have three easy to make predictions.
1) Hundreds of dealerships are headed for bankruptcy in 2009
2) The Fed Is Destined To Become World's Largest Auto Dealership
3) Cars are going to get cheaper, much cheaper. Auto prices will crash. Liquidation sales later this year after the 2010 models come out are going to be fabulous.
It makes no sense to buy a car now, no matter how good the deal looks. The deals will get progressively better as the year rolls on.
Regards,
OW
Prius $23k gets 45 miles per gallon hwy
Malibu $19k gets 29 miles per gallon hwy
At today's $1.83 gas, the Malibu is the money saver
You can drive it 63,387 miles on the $4k less that you pay for it. Thats the next 9 years of my commute to work. 4 1/2 years if gas doubles tomorrow.
Anyone heard a way of translating that in to electrical miles per gallon, or perhaps cost to the consumer then? Like $10.00 of gas will ignite the generators for another 300 electrically-driven miles, for a total of 340 miles driven, at a consumer-cost of the $10.00 gas + $2.00 from kilowatt hours at home from his/her overnight charge-up, for a total of $12.00 for 340 miles driven. This is all a bad guess, but you get my drift, right? You have to take kilowatt-per hour costs from his/her charge-up earlier that night and morning at home and the cost of the gasoline for his/her ICE engine in to account.
Are we still in the speculation stage for all of this, or is there anything more detailed released by GM on it, regarding the ICE charge-up the electrical generator travel-time for the new Volt? Is it possible to finely-hone any of this data at this point? Or is this technology too new to estimate cost-per-mile-driven right now?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Anyone else have anything to add here that would properly edumacate us, it would be most appreciated.
BTW-if a combined energy expenditure estimate of 50 mpg is fairly accurate for the Volt, I don't find that that would be saving me enough to justify spending $40,000 on a new Volt in 2010. Or even $32,500 after the $7,500 Obama rebate. How 'bout you'all, what'd ya think? It would not be enough money savings to get something like 50mpg driving a new Volt, if one has to spend $32,500 for the new tech car. Agreed?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
PRESS RELEASE:
Progressive Insurance Automotive X PRIZE Commends GM on Progress With Chevy Volt; Recommends More Accurate Standard of Measure for Alternative Energy Vehicles
SANTA MONICA, CA--(Marketwire - September 26, 2008) - Today, the Progressive Insurance Automotive X PRIZE released a statement in response to the proposed 100MPG rating for the Chevy Volt:
The Progressive Automotive X PRIZE -- a multimillion dollar competition designed to inspire a new generation of viable, super-efficient vehicles -- commends GM for its work in significantly improving fuel economy with the recent unveiling of its Chevy Volt, and we are pleased to see so many other auto manufacturers planning to introduce their own fuel efficient options into the market in the near future.
"With an increased focus on fuel economy and environmental impact, the U.S. consumer is now looking to a high fuel economy standard, and we believe it is an achievable goal in the near term," noted Don Foley, Executive Director of the Progressive Automotive X PRIZE. "Reliance on an MPG standard alone will soon be outdated and will not accurately reflect the need for higher fuel efficiency."
The Progressive Automotive X PRIZE is a way for all vehicle makers to compete in real world driving conditions, and with our proposed unit of measure, MPGe -- miles per gallon or energy equivalent -- we believe we've found a way to test alternative fuels on a level playing field. Miles-per-gallon equivalent (MPGe) is a measure that expresses fuel economy in terms of the energy content of a gallon of petroleum-based gasoline. Basically we ask: how much energy was delivered to the vehicle, and how far did it go? We convert the energy to the number of gallons of gasoline containing equivalent energy, and we express the result as miles per gallon. Our goal goes beyond conserving gasoline, but also conserving energy of all types.
We're pleased that the EPA is looking at how best to gauge the fuel economy of cars like the Volt and recommend that they consider adopting MPGe as a unit of measure that would more accurately reflect fuel consumption of alternative energy vehicles, and we welcome further discussions with them on this topic, just as we invite all automakers' participation in the Progressive Automotive X PRIZE.
I feel I know a bunch more about what can be expected of the new Chevy Volt's energy consumption now. And it has done about what I thought it would-point me right back towards the 2010 Pininfarina-Bollore B-Zero's zero-output pollution. And it's 153 mile range on one charge, it's 80 mph electronically-limited top speed, and it's estimated $17,500 USD cost(after your $7,500 Obama alternative-energy rebate is applied). That remains a mystery right now, though. Pininfarina-Bollore have not released a U.S. price(I've garnered that information from searching the net for literally dozens of hours and finding some comp.'s from Pininfarina-Bollore's LeBlue all-electric cars that used these same Lithium-Polymer steel-encased battery packs that the B-Zero is going to use).
That price for the LeBlue cars was going to be $23,000USD. I have some reason to believe that the B-Zero's will cost more-but not by much. I'm estimating about $25,000USD. Subtract the $7,500 and you're left with a purchase price of $17,500. Only the rebate applies to batteries that are 16KWH. The rebate drops if the batteries are less powerful. So there is some more research needed on these small all-electric Italian-French collaboratives, as of right now.
But it's no more being in the dark on the B-Zero's as it is trying to find out information on the 2010 Chevy Volt. Oh, well. These are 2010 alternative-energy rigs, now, why would we expect more in early 2009? Unless we're total car geeks of some generation, eh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
But that is just what they want, plekto, us consumers buying these alternative-energy rigs "in an instant". It looks like the Obama Administration is down with it, too, offering the $7,500 alternative energy vehicle purchase rebate for U.S. consumers. That is saying a lot to offer that much of a purchase discount on a new car, from the Fed. Guv-Mint, too. That is truly an incentive to lead someone to buy who might be "on the fence" on buying a hybrid or all-electric.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Edmund's posted this:
The 2010 Mitsubishi i MIEV is expected to go on sale by the end of 2009 for around 2.5 million yen ($24,000), although Japanese government subsidies for zero-emissions cars reduce this price by 50 percent.
Does that mean Japan gets them all or will the USA get some? With Japan putting $12k on the hood it will make it tough to get any for US consumers. 100 miles would easy get me anywhere I want to drive and back around SD County.
CNG Civic.
200 mile range and qualifies for the credit. $18K after the rebate, in fact. That easily pays for the $3K for the home fueling device. Yes, to those who are reading about this car for the first time, you can get a fueling device the size of a small water heater in your garage that allows you to fill your car in your own garage.
The air that comes out of the tailpipe is actually cleaner than the air that went in if you're living in any medium sized city or larger. And it also get the carpool access and other goodies. Even after they stop issuing the stickers to hybrids. Because it's not a Hybrid.
Fuel cost is roughly $1 a gallon equivalent as well if you fill from home. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that at $1 a gallon and 24/36 mpg, you're instantly in the 50+mpg compared to anything else range. And if petroleum based fuels spike back up to $4 or $5 a gallon, the efficiency jumps upwards of 100mpg.
There are far more fuel stations for CNG in the U.S. as well than all of the other alternative forms combined, since all municipalities that use CNG in their fleets are required to allow the public to buy from them.(usually it's about $2 a gallon though - it pays to fill at home).
The only cost to all of this? You lose about 1/3 of your total trunk space. Otherwise it's an absolutely normal Civic.
Here's an excerpt from a comment I made at least a year ago on Edmunds' 2010 Mitsubishi i-MiEV thread:
For those of us who live in rural towns and areas, I wonder if the distance might limit them. I mean, in my case, if this was my only car, my wife and I would drive it to Tucson, which is 80 miles away. If it's range is 120 miles we'd have to look for a re-charge spot. And if that is the case, I would want the re-charge process to be a bit quicker than it is.
But for those people who want to go grocery shopping in the burbs or shopping in the city, this car would work, because they're not going to need to drive 25+ miles before they shop. I'm really interested in what Mitsubishi might next develop in an all-EV. One that they would consider exporting to the U.S. I really like the idea of all-EV's and I think this is the direction we need to go. Get away from fossil fuels completely.
And I am really starting to admire Mitsubishi as a competent and exciting carmaker. This little all-electric squirtplug they're making is evidence of that.
gagrice-I'm all eyes and ears with regard to this little squirtplug, but, believe it or not, I haven't crossed the 2010 Chevy Volt off my list yet, nor the 2010 Pininfarina-Bollore B-Zero, nor even the BYD(China)e6 all-electric car.
The front-runner is the 2010 Pininfarina-Bollore and the 2010 Mitsubishi i-MiEV. And we may not trade in for another 4 or 5 years, though that's gonna prove to be a real challenge for me, not my wife.
Incidentally, Mitsubishi announced many months ago that they now are offering a "quick-charger" for you to have with your little i-MiEV. You can get an 80% "re-charge" in as little as 30 minutes! Needless to say, I will buy one of those as an "option" for my i-MiEV. I really need one of those to go to Tucson with me, next it's the fun of finding someone's electrical outlet to kype...ummm....I mean "borrow" electrical energy from. Just kidding, and this is why I'm leaning towards the 153-mile range B-Zero, it has a "quick charge" unit for sale with it, too. But 153 miles is a lot better range than the i-MiEV's 110-some miles. And the B-Zero has solar panels on it's roof and front grille to garner extra charging energy from. So we might be able to "stretch" the 80 mile one-way trip to Tucson in with this car. Or maybe not. :confuse:
The cars are neck and neck in the race right now with this padre. Another option is to pay off the Lancer GTS and keep it for long trips. And buy an i-MiEV or a B-Zero to play in more locally.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
They are fools who don't understand that CNG has almost half the energy in it of gasoline per liquid gallon. 33mpg and a tiny cost per said gallon is astounding. But I guess they don't understand that paying $10 a week for fuel is somehow less than $30.
Oh - another good thing. Despite the quirks and issues with any new technology, you don't ever need to get a smog check on it! It pollutes as much driving 2000 miles as a typical SUV does in about ten miles. Slightly lower registration fees as well as a result, since it's considered to not pollute at all in most states.
Bingo - that's my #1 reason (there are a few more) for not buying anybody's Hybrid - one of the great frauds yet to be perpetrated upon the American people.
Ford used to offer some propane powered cars back in the 1980's. They converted a 2.3 4-cyl...the old Pinto engine, I believe. It was available in the small LTD/Marquis, and I'm sure a few other cars.
I wonder how economical propane would be? I know it costs about $20 to refill the propane tank that attaches to my barbecue grille. I can't remember how big it is, but I think it's a fairly standard size. I wonder how many miles you could get out of $20 worth of propane?
Oh, BTW large natural gas pipelines make wonderful terrorist targets. Pipelines are hard to guard, would make a great fire, and the destruction of a pipeline even for a few days, would shutdown an entire area.
Even if you DO have natural gas to the home, your provider has to determine if you have enough flow to feed the PHILL unit. If you have a long commute say 35-75 miles. Mostly freeway with HOV lanes. And you have a good supply of NG. The Civic GX with a Phill unit in your garage is a very good vehicle. One of the better options IMO.
General Motors Corp, nearing a Tuesday deadline to present a viability plan to the U.
S. government, is considering as one option a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing that would create a new company, the Wall Street Journal said in its Saturday edition.
"One plan includes a Chapter 11 filing that would assemble all of GM's viable assets, including some U.S. brands and international operations, into a new company," the newspaper said. "The undesirable assets would be liquidated or sold under protection of a bankruptcy court. Contracts with bondholders, unions, dealers and suppliers would also be reworked."
Interesting.
Regards,
OW
http://www.rasertech.com/media/pdfs/Series_PHEV_Drive_System_Flyer_07.pdf
http://www.rasertech.com/media/pdfs/100_MPG_PHEV_02.pdf
Bill
BTW, Raser is putting on-line a 10 MW geothermal generation facility..so that could generate the plug-in power to charge overnight.
More geothermal is needed. Once you get past all the weirdos trying to block them.
Propane is a strange animal. We make it (as well as ethane, butane and all those tane's) by a fractionate processing of the heavy hydrocarbons from the natural gas stream we transport in our pipelines. Unfortunately in the north east at least, it tracks fuel oil in pricing. Additionally, until recently it is heavily hedged in pricing. With all the new drilling in Appalachia with the new Marcellus shale play there will be a surplus of propane available if there were fractionation capacity available.
I think though propane would be somewhat dangerous. You have to keep it pressurized to keep it in liguid form. If it leaks out you will have a highly flamable vapor cloud that is heavier than air. I wouldn't want one in my garage.
CNG though can be stored in cylinders much like what welders use. It is stored at very high pressure, thus the range from a relatively small cylinder.
CNG was a big thing around here for a while. The tax credits available on a state and federal level would actually make you a positive investment, but still not many people took the offer. Our distribution company converted some, but you have to wonder about the viability when the gas company doesn't convert.
I have not seen the comparisons lately but when natural gas hit $13/mcf I'm guessing it would have lost its appeal. Now that natural gas is dropping back down in the $6 range it may be attractive.
I never saw any data on how dependable and cheap to maintain the compressor would be if you wanted to actually pump from your own house overnight from your distribution line. I know they were fairly expensive. The local stations never caught on. I believe a plug in electric car is alot more convenient.
“It would be a mistake to assume that this ‘10 million market’ is an aberration. Instead, we need to accept and come to grips with it,” he said today at the Economic Club of Chicago.
10MM SAAR
That, also, might be a tad too high for 2009.
Regards,
OW
This is not surprising. They are tracking nicely to our prediction of $100B.
From the article:
In response to signs of a prolonged slump in demand for new cars and trucks, the automaker also said it would step up cost-cutting, reducing its global workforce by 47,000 jobs this year and cutting five additional U.S. plants by 2012.
The five plants doesn't seem very aggressive. I think '62 said GM has 47 plants in NA, which would mean they are only cutting 10% of plants over 3 years. The Obama administration will likely expect faster action.
62 - are you out there? We are missing you on the forum. Hope you are doing ok.
Right now your paying close to $2.50/gallon. Let's all figure $4/gallon for realities sake, since it's not always winter.
The estimate is between $75B and $125B from Zandi last December
Last week (Dec. 9th Article), Moody's Economy.com economist Mark Zandi suggested during one of the auto bailout hearings on Capitol Hill that the Big Three could need between $75 billion to $125 billion over the next two years if they are to survive.
I'd go as far as $150 or higher as the Suppliers line up.
Regards,
OW
I'd say the odds are slim to none. I'd say we'd have a better chance of being paid back by the Taliban or Bin Laden than GM or Chrysler.
But hey, what do I know. My credit rating is about 750, loan me the billions! I promise to buy long lasting value oriented vehicles with it!
Then I'll pay you back :P :P