Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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I could probably make myself happy if the feds wanted to buy me a GM vehicle. There's some stuff there. Chrysler is another story. Ugh.
Yeah, a 2010 Fusion - particularly the hybrid - could make me a happy camper.
Saturn must go. Hummer must go. Saab must go. Pontiac and Chevy need to merge models and become one brand. Let GMC make the trucks and have 3 SUVs, small, medium and large corresponding to Chevy, Buick and Cadillac so divisions don't compete with each other.
Need money? Sell some cars. 60% of MRSP is better than nothing unless you can get a gullible government to floorplan the whole company which is what we are being asked to do.
If we comply with their "demands", the demands will never stop.
GM isn't *worth* that much. I say the government buys them outright and saves some money(you know GM's pension fund is going to be taken over by the government in any case.
At least this way we could kick out all of their board of directors.
Oh, and buy out Chrysler. Merge them together. Have them do nothing but make government and fleet vehicles at cost. Save the taxpayers billions in the process every year replacing aging vehicles.
You can play the bailout game and in the end it still bay come to capitulation under C11 and then it might be too late for anything to emerge from the ashes.
Regards,
OW
This kind of tied into my thinking yesterday while watching Wagoner, Young and Henderson during the press conference. The plan is to come out of this with Chevy, Buick, Caddy and GMC as core brands, with Pontiac being a niche brand. Also, they backed off their 2011 turn-around to 2012, as well as starting to look to Brazil again, which is scary (though not as scary as the Chrysler/Fiat tie-up). Lastly they seem to be falling into the "cut employees to become profitable" trap. Overall appears they are doing a Chapter 11 restructuring without going into Chapter 11.
What is GMC other than rebadged Chevrolets (not counting the Class 4/5/6 trucks)? If they are going to keep GMC, does this mean Chevy just produces cars? I would have preferred they keep Saturn, this could be their "green" division, you know, kind of keep that "a different kind of car company / division" philosophy. They could have regular, Red Line for performance and Green Line for green, i.e. gas-misers, hybrids, plug-ins. This could also be their Opel import line as it is now.
Pontiac could be kept niche or better yet folded into Chevy and perhaps Buick - these can be the SS models for Chevrolet, GS / T-Type for Buick. GMC could be treated the same way. Chevy could have "Professional Grade" options on trucks & SUVs, with Buick getting the CUVs. This help eliminates the overlaps they now have.
Saab is pretty much history, Hummer is the big ??
And now GM wants HOW many more BILLIONS???? Time for the government restructuring.
I think Ford has been very smart in mortgaging everything to the hilt so as not to take taxpayer bailout money.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
unfortunately leads to
And now GM wants HOW many more BILLIONS????
They didn't get the money one way, so they figure they're entitled to it this way. And between CEOs padding Republican pockets, and the UAW padding Democrat pockets, they'll probably get it no matter who we elect.
You're right about Ford being smart, they're earning all kinds of goodwill that will lead to future profits. I don't think GM is noticing how angry they're making the customer base that they supposedly want buying their cars.
Mine (Saturn) is ... wonder what will happen after 2012?
Will my dealer still be around?
Where will I go with my three Saturns ('08 Vue, '06 ION & '03 L300) for service?
Ah, well.
Not with the Ion, of course. But your local Chevy dealer will probably be able to work on that one for you.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
There are opportunities here for Saturn service managers and/or mechanics who have entrepreneur capabilities to open new service businesses that would include Saturn.
I am very mad, I want out so bad!!
I will not be back to GM. I never wanted this GM car. (long story).
I suspect that the Chevy dealer could also work on the VUE, since it has the 3.6L V6 and 6-speed transmission. The ION is, for all intents and purposes, a Chevy Cobalt (2.2L 4-banger with the 4-speed auto).
That is assuming, of course, that I even have a local dealer. There is a Chevy dealer in the town I live in, but, with the contraction of dealers going on, it wouldn't surprise me if it ultimately closed. The next closest dealer is about 10-12 miles away.
It's the L300 that I'm worried about ... it's got 78K on it and has the 3.0L 54-degree V6 from Europe. I'm hoping to get a couple more years out of it before I look for a new car, so perhaps a 2012 fold date would work OK for me ....
But you bring up a good point. I think GM will have more details in March.
Stand-alone Plymouth dealerships were always rare, and probably almost non-existent since Chrysler restructured in 1960 to form Dodge and Chrysler-Plymouth divisions. Before 1960, Plymouths were usually sold through Dodge dealerships, DeSoto dealerships, or Chrysler/Imperial dealerships. So even though Plymouth folded, the Chrysler-Plymouth dealerships were still there.
Also towards the end, most Plymouths were just clones of other cars anyway. The Plymouth and Dodge Neons were identical. The Plymouth Voyager became the Chrysler Voyager, and was sold for another year or two, before being dropped. The Plymouth Prowler became the Chrysler Prowler. And the Plymouth Breeze was dropped when the "cloud cars" redesigned for 2001.
I imagine Olds and Saturn might be a bit more difficult though, as they're a bit unique compared to the other GM divisions.
Regards,
OW
yes, that's what I was thinking. And of course I had forgotten that the new Equinox is essentially a rebadged Vue, so of course the Chevy dealer will have that one well in hand.
As for the L, well you get at least 2 more full years of factory service, and it's a good heads-up to go back to Ford when you replace it. Or try out Hyundai or Chevy next time around....
Even with Saturn gone and Hummer and Saab all but gone, GM is still too big with too many brands....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I was wrong. Chrysler paid back the loan ahead of schedule and I think we'd have certainly missed their products and innovations in the last quarter century.
Now we're looking at another round of government intervention and it appears rather small in light of the staggering numbers that have been thrown around in recent months, but the numbers aren't really small. If you have a million dollars in a pile of bills a foot tall, a billion dollars will be 1000 feet high, roughly a 100 story skyscraper. GM is asking for 15 of these. But, that's actually only $50 apiece for every man, woman and child in the US. For my immediate household, that would be $250. I say we go ahead and help the General and Mrs. Motors. After all, the oil companies, banks, 401k and insurance companies rip that from me every few days. At least Generous Motors gives you a choice to buy their product or not.
The fact that all 3 of the GM vehicles in my household turn 10 this year, not rusty, running and affordably repairable shows me they must be doing something right.
The media seems to grope for bad news and lately can only seem to find one spokesman for the entire industry, former GM Chairman Ed Cole's son David. Well, David, since they're all coming to you, tell 'em we all love cars and at one time or another have crossed all company lines to admire if not to buy. You can also tell them that the day I worry about General Motors is the day I can't even buy a life of my own.
I know that the only people who'd have missed Chrysler's products and innovations (a misnomer if there ever was one) in the last quarter century would be all the repair, service, and maintenance shops that got rich off of Chrysler clunkers and :lemon: 's. Also, the tow truck drivers getting rich off of hooking up Chrysler's every day would certainly have missed the last 25 years of Chryslers.
But other than service managers, repair shop owners, and tow truck company owners and drivers, I can't imagine ANYONE not regretting the decision to bailout Chrysler before, when they darn well knew it would have to be done again in the near future (December 2008 to be exact), and a third time in March of 2009.
I for one, would certainly be a much happier and richer (financially) person had I bought a used Civic instead of that money pit of what Chrysler called the "new" Dodge in the mid-Nineties! :mad: :sick:
Certainly you are welcome to your opinion, and to donate as much as you want to whomever you want; just don't try and force the rest of us to. And your numbers are only a small part of what GM will need. They will need $15B several times a year for the next few years. And there are 50 other industries - homebuilders, hospitals, drug companies, consumer goods, electronics, computers, that all similarly deserve money. Do you propose giving each industry the same bailout deal as autos?
Understand this -there is $5,000 billion of bad debt in this economy right now. There is no way the government which is $11+T in debt is going to be able to address this and bailout every industry. The government can not infinitely print money and there is no consequence.
Anyway if you want to help GM buy some of their stock. Let us know later tomorrow how much you bought. Maybe mortgage your house and buy a lot? :P
This is like the government bailing out one of Donald Trump's businesses, when Donald is sitting back with his hundreds of millions unwilling to put any of his own money into his failing business.
Why should the U.S. taxpayer be putting money into Chrysler when the owners of Chrysler aren't willing to do so? Or the owners of Chrysler should sell it, if they don't think it's ever going to make a profit. Or they can shut Chrysler down, and Chrysler's customers would go to helping GM and Ford stay in business.
No one in favor of the loans, which is very few will ever address why Cerberus shouldn't put their last dimes into Chrysler, before the 1st taxpayer $ ever goes to Chrysler.
While it's true that a very high percentage of all the people I know who have bought mopars in the last 20 years have various horror stories, I can't seem to forget their glory days. If you weren't beaten by a mopar, you never drag raced. If you didn't notice all the guys in h.s. auto shop gravitating toward mopar, you never got out of English Lit. Once the word, "hemi" re-entered the language, I started looking at fenders again. Remember when flags and numbers changed bottom-of-the-line familymobiles into a awesome street rulers?
News types are getting some attention writing Chrysler's epitaph, saying stuff like, "All the talent has already left the building." I think the cell-phone generation will decide for themselves. I can help. A new GM car will break your budget, a Ford will never be quite right and will lesson your joy of driving, a Chrysler will have one or more very expensive repairs, scaring you into another car, and Honda and Toyota will run like sewing machines for hundreds of thousands of miles until you can stick your foot right out to the pavement, but sewing machines aren't that thrilling and besides the nece$$ary maintenance intervals, repairs are unpredictably expensive.
My solution? Keep the oil changed and don't trust repair shops even before they burn you. "Honest" and "mechanic" are two words that should be separated by at least a day.
While there is certainly merit in this idea, my meager portfolio is on cruise-control. I merely adjust the risk and the fund managers take it from there. Yeah, I know the risk adjustment is a dummy knob, but it simulates the feeling of control.
I would rather help GM by buying a car and going broke than buying their stock and risk going broke in the dark. I just don't understand how the game works. How can a company, or better, an entrenched management team, steal a company away from the real owners, the stockholders? Isn't that what happened with K-mart?
There was not an exact bodystyle match that I can recall that year, indeed there's slight headlamp and taillight differences between them, yes.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Originally, that fastback style was supposed to be a Plymouth-only offering, meant to fill the void left by the departure of the small, Valiant-based Barracuda, and also to compete with the Maverick. Dodge dealers wanted a version though, so that's how the Demon was spawned. To return the favor, the Valiant hardtop was reinstated. It had been canceled for 1967, to eliminate competition for the Barracuda, similar to the way Ford dropped the hardtop/convertible Falcons for 1966 to avoid competition to the Mustang, and Chevy did the same in 1968 to the Chevy II/Nova, to clear room for the Camaro.
When the Valiant hardtop returned, it was called the Scamp, which is kind of a nasty sounding name. Especially if you grew up listening to the Greaseman on the radio!
When my cousin ordered a 1970 Dodge Charger he chose the color, "Plum Crazy" with a black vinyl top and black interior. The salesman told him that the color was originally to be called, "Statutory Grape." Sounds a little unlikely now, but we had no reason to doubt it at the time. It all became academic when the car was delivered white, with a white vinyl top and white interior. My cousin didn't take it and it went back to "the Dodge Boys, the good guys in the white hats."
A Chrysler will have one or more very expensive repairs, scaring you into another car? Heck, one of the best cars I ever owned was a 1985 Chrysler Fifth Avenue. I sold it to my brother back in 1993 and he's still driving it! I'd buy another M-body in a New York second if I can find one in decent condition.
Dunno...my grandparents on my Dad's side of the family had a '75 Swinger. They never seemed the type to do something like that, although I've heard that Grandmom could be a bit of a flirt back in the day. :shades:
Dunno how true this is, but I heard that when it was in its planning stages, Mopar marketing was actually thinking about calling the Demon the Beaver! And they even had a little cartoon character worked up for it!
I can just imagine all the double entendres a name like that would have created. "Hey, I just got a new Beaver! Want to go for a ride with me?" :surprise:
Time will tell how my Expedition holds up, but so far it has exceeded my expectations, not something I can say for any GM vehicle I've had the displeasure to drive.
I don't think all GM vehicles are junk, but seems there are more losers than winners.
Tradition and Rose colored glasses? :shades:
I had good luck with GM until I bought a 2005 GMC PU Truck. Maybe the cars have gained ground. The trucks have gone down hill since peaking in the 1990s. All prior ones were built in Mexico and Canada, that could be the reason also.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-02-18-new-car-truck-sales-sink_N.htm
GM's plan should be for a market of 8-8.5M vehicles this year, and no more than 9M next year. They need to size themselves (at normal operations) for that NOW, not 4 months from now; certainly not wait until next year. If the market is slightly better they can work a little OT.
Regards,
OW
My first car - a 1968 Buick was purchased by myself in 1981 and was still in the family in late 1992.
I had a 1979 Buick Park Avenue which I totalled in an accident in May 1989.
A 1979 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency that went 148K miles but was destroyed by a careless driver in a box truck in 1991.
A 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille I sold to a friend of my Dad's in May 1993.
A 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic from which I traded-up to my 1989 Cadillac Brougham.
I had a 1994 Cadillac DeVille purchased new which I traded for a new 2002 Cadillac Seville STS which in turn I traded for a new 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance.
You'll have to forgive me but I assumed these guys were professional. I would have used 9.5 MM SAAR and 10.0 for next year. That pegs any possible payback well into the future. This bailout is going to get quite sticky, indeed.
There is no viability as far as I'm concerned, just a bailout-addicted system that we've signed on to. Remember these last words...there is nothing too big to fail. Roman Empire, anyone? Hitler?
Regards,
OW
The current Yukon Denali is another load of junk. Sort of like the manufacturer these days...worthless! :sick:
Regards,
OW