I hope you've brought this to the Matinenance and Repair forum as well, golf. People see VCM as a topic in general, not just problematic (at least I do).
I'm hopeful that the dialog here will result in more education around the VCM operation primarily what new owners are experiencing in the new 2008 Accord V6 Sedan. That would be in the spirit of how the thread began... As more people buy the car and log miles more user info on the " VCM operation" will migrate here (hopefully). Not so much its intended benefit (i.e fuel economy) I think there is already a thread related to MPG.
I agreed with Honda/Acura King Robertsmx. VCM is strictly related to MPG and Honda actual MPG exceeds EPA's MPG figures. It's just our hand-on experience.
I went back to the dealer today to have them run some additonal test on the car and they are still finding the vibration. Also the VCM is still acting up.. again it remains noticable. stay tuned...
Because of the mention of vibrations and surging of the 2008 V6 with VCM I test drove a 2008 V^ last week about 25 to 30 miles at highway speeds of 50 to 60 MPH with the cruise control on and did not notice the slightest vibration or surge. Now the car was brand new with plastic still on the hood, etc which was removed before the test drive.
At what point in your ownership did you notice this problem? In other words how many miles did you put on the car when this problem became evident?
Has anyone else experienced this problem? If so when and at how many miles?
Also have you or anyone else on this board recorded the MPG for the V6, especially on interstate trips?
Wife has over 3000 miles on her 08 EXL V6. No interstates but tank to tank mileage is running 24 to 28 depending on urban/rural mix. About the same as her 04 EX V6. I put a couple hundred highway miles on it, rolling terrain with lots of ECO cycles, cruise on and off, 50's to 100+ and there is no noticeable vibration or surging. I drove two demos before buying and they didn't vibrate or surge either. Nice car, I just wish they hadn't deleted so many user friendly features.
Deletions from the 04: Trunk key lock, trunk hook, tail light bulb access covers, separate jack compartment, package shelf key lock for the folding seat, manual crank for the moon roof, red reflectors on rear doors, coin slots and spring loaded cup holders. Nothing major but I think the cost cutters went a little too far.
I test drove 2 similar model cars '08 EXL V6. No vibration or surge. They accelerated and ran firm and strong. The rear windshield is smaller than that of Accord '02 or '05 V6. Cost cutting? But from exterior it looks much bigger than the '07 V6. It looks really beautiful. The 2 fog lamps are useful. Front grill looks sportier than that of the I4. The 4 big chrome door handles look great.
To be fair, I don't believe my 2006 has the taillamp covers, and I know it doesn't have the trunk keyhole. All Accords from 2006 onward have keyless entry. The cupholders are different? I missed that when I rode in a 2.4L EX-L... I love them in my 2006 Accord!
That's a good really question. My VCM is still just as seamless and flawless as it was during my test drive, but then I only have 1700 miles on it so far. I haven't done any extended freeway trips yet, but average 23-24 mpg in combination city/highway driving.
Pure interstate, fill up before entering & fillup when exiting, 29MPG and my V6 08 was loaded with four plus size passengers with luggage for a 3 day weekend. Highway speeds between 70 & 80 MPH. VCM, while not seamless, does not surge or vibrate.
.....with a full pax load + 70 to 80 MPH, that's decent MPG.
...... a long way from the near 40 (I-10W near Yuma; I-5N LA-SAC) I've calc'd...
.....but I was solo; tach indicating circa 2150 in 6th OD, no a/c..........
Some of the clueless with places to go, a large fuel budget and not enough time seemed to resent my pace..................several birds noticed as they roared past.
I am hearing that there may be an option to deactivate the VCM and run it as a straight 6 cylinder... anyone hearing this? Vibration remains and I think its from the 3 cylnd operation as its more pronounced when the ECO light engages at higher speeds (highway mostly). Took a buddy to a dealer today to test drive an 08 V6 and he could not stand the VCM operation as well (at least I am not alone) its WAY to hyperactive as other posters have pointed out. Honda needs an override option for this car.
Apparently it is not noticeable on all V6's. I had 3 test drives before buying one and did not notice it on the freeway. I have not had a chance to drive mine yet since it is in the service department to get the rear-view camera installed. Will get it out Friday and post results.
I am interested as well in how you feel the VCM operation at 45-50 mph but most importantly on the highway at cruising speeds for a longer duration 10-20 miles min and between 60-70mph. You may notice (at times) just after the "ECO" light illuminates a drop, hesitation and or downshift feeling. My new V6 Sedan and the 2 others I have tested all demonstrate a hyperactivity with the ECO sensor and VCM operation.. like a relatively frequent "surging" or shifting feel. Once you have done this. then put the car in Cruise Control on the highway ( I followed others posts on this issue to see if I was crazy) sure enough, you may find that as much as 80%+ of this activity is diminished. I too have found this to be consistent with other posters and have been monitoring the dialog for user experience. My car has a great deal of road noise as well. its not too bad if I turn up the stereo but does seem much louder than other brands I tested prior to purchase. Is there a "patch" for this or anyway to shut the VCM off??
my 1st honda after 6 maximas since 1985 2008 Honda Accord 6cy ex-l w/navi and have been satisfied so far
but..
I notice a "clicking noise" which kinda sounds like valves clicking and/or a little like a diesel clicking coming from deep in the engine. Not the clicking from the compressor or fans or timing belt pulleys either. Nope I did not pay off anyone for the new diesel either!
Anyone have similar noises?
The service rep had not heard this on another 2008 vcm engine (no other complaints) yet and suggested to monitor the "check engine lights" as if there is an issue these sensors would pick it up. The "clicking: seems to be more noticable after 75+ mph & 30+ minute trips. It is annoying when coming to idle and hearing it do these inside the cabin????
ideas??
speaking of service rep and timing "belt" I bought this top of the line Honda "assuming" it was a CHAIN timing belt only to find out at the "clicking" noise inspection it is a timing BELT ~$700 service at 110,000 :mad:
Now WHY would Honda revert back to the HIGH MAINTANENCE costs of a belt??
My last 2 Maximas('96 & '01) had CHAINS and being a high mileage driver that made me
also I've not had any noticeable issues w/ the vcm. Pretty smooth operating so far. ~1250 miles
Having a timing chain, instead of a belt, is not always a good thing. The timing chain tensioners are problematic on many timing chain vehicles. I changed the timing chain on my truck, only because I had to go through all the trouble of changing the tensioner anyway. That was less than 10k miles ago, and it is starting to make the loud ticking sound again. It would probably last another 10 - 20k miles, but I would still have to listen to the constant, and ever louder ticking. At least I know my timing belt will last 100k miles. Even if the tensioner on the Chevy truck would last 100k miles, I can only imagine how loud and irritating it would be by then.
Have been driving it for awhile now. Both freeway and surface streets. I drove over 100 miles from San Jose to Sacto, varying speeds, if it were not for the ECO light, I would not even notice something was happening. I watched the DVD that comes with the owner's manual, it too says the VCM should be un-noticeable to the driver. I, myself am a picky driver and notice minor things, but at least on mine I have not noticed nothing yet. I have about 300 miles on the car so far. Could it be that it may surface after you've put some miles on the car? Otherwise, I would hopt that Honda comes out with a solution for the ones that are noticing it and are bothered by it. I will keep you posted.
Also see my previous post. I did try your suggestions as far as the varying speed, cruise control, etc. have not noticed nothing yet. I wouldn't recommend finding a way to turn it off. It is a new technology and if it works fine it should be reat. Besides that, you have paid for it as part of the car price so if it is not working like it should Honda should fix it. It is interesting that the other two you drove had similar characteristics. The 2 that I test drove before buying this one did not show any either but I only drove them for a short period. I now have driven this for about 300 miles. I will put more miles on it and keeo an eye on the ECO and VCM and let you know if I notice something.
Honda VCM technology has been put in Ody, Accord hybrid '05, 06, 07 for years now. V6 08's VCM has been refined with 4 cyclinders working at time besides the 3 or 6 cylinders.
My Accord hybrid '05 gets 37K miles with absolutely NO NOTICE on VCM mechanism. My '08 EX-L V6 w/ Nav. gets only 24 miles in my garage under a thick extra large car cover now while I drive my 95 @ 252K miles and '02, '03, '05 Accord V6.
In fact, when my wife and I took delivery of my '08 EX-L V6 w/ Nav. she asked the internet manager to let me test drive it before we signed the contract. I did not test drive it but just drove it home because it's flawless and I can bring it back to the dealer any time before 36K miles/ 3 years if there is any problem. At several ocsasions, my wife got upset with me because I have obsessed with Honda technology and been doing lot of talk about Honda technology with her.
Accord is a true star model of Honda. Why wastes $45K+ on European cars with same or less value/ specifications. I do not think similar class European/ American cars can match with the Accord. The internet sale manager told me Honda made the '08 V6 EX Accord so people will only Accord and forget about MB or BMW, etc.
BTW, somebody may want to ask Golf to scan your sale contract with Honda & post it in this forum to prove he does own the car with VCM issue as he states.
I have several extra Accords at top working conditions to drive around so I want to take my time before driving much on my new one '08. One of my acquaintances bought a $60K+ sport MB and he let it stay in his garage for years without driving it much. I told his wife even without driving it much her husband's new MB will depreciate over time when new models come out and the engine & other parts in that car are still in the process of rusting. However, at low mileage the car is still better. That's similar with my Accord V6 EX '02 @ 61K mile. It still runs like brand new @ day one.
I told my wife that one folk in Edmunds forum tested the VSA of the Accord on highly snowy roads and its VSA worked "awesome". I said thanks to that folk because (1) I have never got a chance to test the VSA of my new car on snowy roads, (2) I am much more confident with Accord VSA and other safety features, (3) I get a chance to convince my wife that the new Accord has VSA that is truly needed when the drivers drive it on snowy roads and told her that I was right to buy a new Accord with extra safety features because my '05 Accord hybrid does not have VSA. I want to sooth her off that buying a new car is not always "luxury & unnecessary thing" when we still have "oldie cars" and they still run in "awesome" condition because I have "pampered and put fragrance on them when they get sick or need periodic maintenance". In NYC, there was a real story of an Accord owner that the thieves repeatedly stole goodie stuff in his Accord. And the last time they stole his whole Accord. There were several Volvo near that Accord but thieves did not steal or touch the Volvo. Thieves did steal my cousin's Accord in Canada. In Sacramento, thieves also stole old Accord. So, Accord owners, please be aware, .
Other car manufacturers may claim their cars have ABS, VSA, cruise control, brake assist, navi, etc...but it does not necessarily those features work at top conditions. But, with Honda when they claim their cars have specific features I am confident that those features work at top conditions because I have owned Honda motor bikes and cars for more than 40 years and been a loyal customers to Honda due to its excellence and its leadership in new technology.
As to Golf, the readers, especially Honda engineers and other engineers, may want to kindly ask him to scan his sale contract with Honda and post it here to prove his purchase of a new '08 Accord. His real name does not need to be revealed to protect his privacy. Mcpdjohn mentioned some bad guys even gave out badly low scores to nice Accord '08 to bring down its average score. If a buyer gives a Honda salesman under perfect score (less than 5) that review will be considered bad. Honda only counts the excellent score (5). So many Honda salesmen told me same thing.
Thanks for checking on...,me, Mcpdjohn. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to you and yours.
I did not test drive it but just drove it home because it's flawless and I can bring it back to the dealer any time before 36K miles/ 3 years if there is any problem.
My powertrain warranty is 5 years/60,000 miles on my 2006 Accord. Your VCM should be covered under that, not just the 3/36k plan.
Thanks for keeping me posted. It may be only affecting some cars. Perhaps the motor mounts are bad in some of them causing more noticable vibration and or VCM enagagement. Eitehr way its noticable to me and at certain speeds hyperactive for sure.
yea sure I will scan my personal purchase agreement and probably break some laws and spread my info on the internet,,, not. why would I waste my time creating a constructive forum on the issue? i am sure there are competitors that have that kind of time to disparage but i do not...be real. I have NEVER said anything negative about Honda "in fact" I am a HUGE supporter of HONDA and probably have a longer track record of customer loyalty than most (let me equate this for you, 6 accords in a row an LX Purchase for my mother in 2005 and a reference for my sister who ended up buying a Pilot.
Have been driving it for awhile now. Both freeway and surface streets. I drove over 100 miles from San Jose to Sacto, varying speeds, if it were not for the ECO light, I would not even notice something was happening. I watched the DVD that comes with the owner's manual, it too says the VCM should be un-noticeable to the driver. I, myself am a picky driver and notice minor things, but at least on mine I have not noticed nothing yet. I have about 300 miles on the car so far. Could it be that it may surface after you've put some miles on the car? Otherwise, I would hopt that Honda comes out with a solution for the ones that are noticing it and are bothered by it. I will keep you posted.
I think we should all have to get fingerprinted before being allowed to post messages on these forums. Might even be a good idea to have a government censor look at all Edmunds'/Insideline's content before releasing it on the internet. . . . This is no place for ideas and opinions --- hard facts and proof only.
We have a discussion here about VCM issues. The topic is welcome and those who want to discuss the topic are welcome to talk about it here. Those who don't feel it is a problem don't need to participate.
Let's drop the sarcasm and let the conversation take place between those who are interested, please.
The rest of you can move along - apparently there's nothing for you to see here.
Quote: "VCM has VTEC. Diesel has high pressure turbo and intercooling system. So, complexity can't be avoided."
A high-pressure turbo and an intercooler may be a complex system, but a tried and true system as SAAB initially used this system in the early '80s SAAB 900 Turbo. It's a very reliable design, and a high-pressure turbo will easily reach 150K miles without a failure if one changes oil regularly and uses a quality oil in the first place - and, not shut the engine down immediately after high-speed operation, so that you don't cook the oil out of the turbo's bearings.
Diesels, especially those used in over the road trucks, have been using this design for many years, and it's truly a reliable solution. I think some are just concerned with the long-term reliability question of the VCM system.
****************************************************************************** Don't be offended, but I've read enough at this point and feel several of you need a dose of common sense.
I'm plenty experienced enough to realize that what I have to say won't register properly with most of you younger guys, but it will register with a few who are wise beyond their years.
Sure, it's nice to be green and add a few MPG and save a few hundred bucks a year in gas. However, it usually ends up costing you in other ways - especially long term.
I find things like turbos and VCM to be too complex and too annoying when working properly. There's no guarantee they will continue to work properly - even during the warranty period. I'd especially be afraid to own a vehicle long term with either setup.
For decades, reliability has been important to me. Fortunately, I've found that in my last 3 Japanese vehicles. I came to realize that added complexity often leads to additional trips to a dealer service department (if under warranty) and additional costs once warranty expires.
I expected to find complaints about Honda's newest (more complex) VCM system and here they are! Beyond the current complaints, I can't help but wonder how well VCM will work at 100k miles and beyond. Will the cylinders that are active at all times wear prematurely? Will vibration gradually increase as a result? Will the complaints be numerous enough to land Accords with VCM on the "do not buy" list? That would hurt resale value.
Given the motivation, I'd go for the 4-banger or non-VCM V6/6MT. However, nothing in 11 years has been able to "motivate" me out of my 1997 Maxima GXE V6/5MT. It's quiet, comfortable, very reliable, and gets great gas mileage, thanks to a smaller V6 and a curb weight of less than 3100 pounds. It's still very quick and torquey by today's V6 standards, which are installed in cars of similar size that have gained at least 350 pounds.
Perhaps it's my age, but there isn't a midsize sedan or coupe that makes my old Maxima seem ancient. My Maxima is quieter on the highway than the new Accord (What's Honda's excuse?), gets similar gas mileage, rides and handles almost as well, has comfortable cloth seats, etc. I travel 1350 miles to Florida and back every year in reasonable comfort and without worrying about a breakdown. At 140k miles, it's still in great shape!
As much as I like Honda and a few other Japanese makes, they're going down the wrong road, as far as I'm concerned. The only big plus in newer models is increased safety. Make me a slightly larger Civic that rivals my Maxima in quickness (with a larger I4 or small V6 engine), comfort, smoothness, quietness, roominess, and I'll ditch my Maxima. The new Accord has grown a bit too large and complex for me.
Perhaps the 2009 Mazda3 or 2009 Corolla will be adequate for a few years or until someone makes an inexpensive sedan that meets my criteria for simplicity and comfort.
Your points are well taken and have merit. But improvement comes with taking chances and trying new things, hoping you won't have to pay for it more than you signed up for it!
I too did think about the wear on the cylinders but my conclusion was not that there will be pre-mature failure of the cylinders that work all the time (they would work anyway), I think the other cylinders would stay newer since don't get used as much.
As for longetivity, I think I read somewhere here that another forum poster, Viet, has had a relatively older Honda w/ VCM and it works fine. Apparently, VCM is not that new to Honda.
The cylinders and piston rings will wear from the friction of the pistons going up and down, which they are all doing, weather the plug is firing or not (VCM active or not). VCM will not cause the cylinders or piston rings to wear any faster than normal. Actually, the pistons in the V6 engine will go up and down less times than the 4 cylinder pistons will over time (less rpm).
Today's cars are more complex than cars of 20 years ago. Car makers also have more knowledge about how to build them, and refine them, than 20 years ago. As complex as today's cars are, I think they are at least as reliable as they were 20 years ago. A lot has been learned (about how to make cars more reliable) over the past 20 years. At least those companies that believe in R & D (Research and Developement) as an investment have. As reliable as my 92 Accord was, my 03 Accord has been at least as reliable ($0 on repairs at 51k miles) so far.
VCM and the 30+ MPG will be federally mandatory on all car models in the US in the next few years to conserve fuel. Honda has led the car industry in VCM.
Very honestly the only minor issue I have with my Accord hybird '05 is the occasional "very tiny humming noise" when it switches between the electric & gas engine or vice versa when the car slows down on the freeway ramps... Otherwise, the car runs very strong, like a big cruising ship. Car "glues" on sharp narrow small winding roads very impressively. Its 255 HP runs impressively & effortlessly on all hills with 30/ 37+ MPG. When I start the engine it "VROOOOOM" to show its strong muscles. When it cruises the hybrid components generates a tiny sound "EEER EEER" very intetrestingly. Many drivers gets addicted to that tiny sound. In '06 & '07 Accord hybrid that "tiny humming noise" issue has been much refined. I have not heard any complains about same issue with Civic hybrid. In all hyrbrids, Civic is rated number one. Accord hybrid is rated number 10.
The '08 top Accord (VCM, ACE, VSA, ABS...) gets top 5 stars on reliability, engineering, overall value,etc, by automobile critics. The '08 top Accord I bought 3 weeks ago is my sixth Accord on the row excluding my 1986 Civic and many Honda motor bikes.
Every products have gone through process of inventions and refinements. As far as to the VCM of the Accord, it is unnoticeable.
I would venture a guess that I'm on the young side of the posters on this forum -- but I agree with your assessment. You sound like you have a sweet deal in your Maxima . . . a strong running, older-but-still-stylish car that is paying dividends 10 years after you bought it! Indeed, you'd be dumb to trade that thing in at this point -- its the perfect, sensible vehicle.
At some point, however, the Maxima is not going to run like you want it to - and you will be forced to replacing it. And when you do, don't fret. . . I believe you are already in the place you fear. . . . just like the 08 Accords, you can't simply tweak the carborator in your 97 Maxima to tune the engine . . the timing is no longer adjusted with a timing gun and a wrench. The days of "simple" automobiles are LONG past and your 97 Maxima, in its day, likely was more complex that the new 08 Accords. We're all stuck in this age of incessent refinement and the skyrocketing price of gasoline is only going to make the problem worse. When it does come time to replace your Maxima, all you can do is learn about the options and pick the lesser of all the evils.
Rest assured, manufacturers like Honda and Toyota are going to use technology that is tried and tested. They sell too many cars to risk any major failures. They are not at the forefront of anything and their ability to "push the envelope" is limited by their own success. Leave the true risk-taking to those who have less to loose or those who want to try to take a stab at gaining on the kings of market share.
Unnoticeable by you elroy but such a blanket statement is not fair . It is VERY noticeable to me as well as many others.. I have had 4 accords and this 08 V6 is nothing like the other this is true. the car lurches, surges and runs rough bottom line.. there is a low vibration as well. I think it was Golfrski that first brought this to the forums attention and I have followed his experience,and all I can say is i have been and am, experiencing the same concerns still.
Rest assured, manufacturers like Honda and Toyota are going to use technology that is tried and tested. They sell too many cars to risk any major failures. They are not at the forefront of anything and their ability to "push the envelope" is limited by their own success
You clearly do not understand how the auto industry works nor the history behind many manufacturing issues with both these automakers and "certain" prts and or components from time to time Noone is perfect. Now what i will say is its not so much the makers ability to be first to market or have a defective design more then it is their ability to correct.. which they both do well usually in the end
Comments
Golf-
At what point in your ownership did you notice this problem? In other words how many miles did you put on the car when this problem became evident?
Has anyone else experienced this problem? If so when and at how many miles?
Also have you or anyone else on this board recorded the MPG for the V6, especially on interstate trips?
Such as? I'm curious now...
I test drove 2 similar model cars '08 EXL V6. No vibration or surge. They accelerated and ran firm and strong. The rear windshield is smaller than that of Accord '02 or '05 V6. Cost cutting? But from exterior it looks much bigger than the '07 V6. It looks really beautiful. The 2 fog lamps are useful. Front grill looks sportier than that of the I4. The 4 big chrome door handles look great.
That's your "lead foot" like my son's. It's not the car. If I drive it I will be able to achieve better MPG.
I agree. The power is so choice, I just can't seem to go easy on the gas pedal. Driving is fun again.
...... a long way from the near 40 (I-10W near Yuma; I-5N LA-SAC) I've calc'd...
.....but I was solo; tach indicating circa 2150 in 6th OD, no a/c..........
Some of the clueless with places to go, a large fuel budget and not enough time seemed to resent my pace..................several birds noticed as they roared past.
....best, ez....
my 1st honda after 6 maximas since 1985
2008 Honda Accord 6cy ex-l w/navi and have been satisfied so far
but..
I notice a "clicking noise" which kinda sounds like valves clicking and/or a little like a diesel clicking coming from deep in the engine. Not the clicking from the compressor or fans or timing belt pulleys either. Nope I did not pay off anyone for the new diesel either!
Anyone have similar noises?
The service rep had not heard this on another 2008 vcm engine (no other complaints) yet and suggested to monitor the "check engine lights" as if there is an issue these sensors would pick it up. The "clicking: seems to be more noticable after 75+ mph & 30+ minute trips. It is annoying when coming to idle and hearing it do these inside the cabin????
ideas??
speaking of service rep and timing "belt" I bought this top of the line Honda "assuming" it was a CHAIN timing belt only to find out at the "clicking" noise inspection it is a timing BELT
~$700 service at 110,000 :mad:
Now WHY would Honda revert back to the HIGH MAINTANENCE costs of a belt??
My last 2 Maximas('96 & '01) had CHAINS and being a high mileage driver that made me
also I've not had any noticeable issues w/ the vcm. Pretty smooth operating so far. ~1250 miles
....thoughts?
My Accord hybrid '05 gets 37K miles with absolutely NO NOTICE on VCM mechanism. My '08 EX-L V6 w/ Nav. gets only 24 miles in my garage under a thick extra large car cover now while I drive my 95 @ 252K miles and '02, '03, '05 Accord V6.
In fact, when my wife and I took delivery of my '08 EX-L V6 w/ Nav. she asked the internet manager to let me test drive it before we signed the contract. I did not test drive it but just drove it home because it's flawless and I can bring it back to the dealer any time before 36K miles/ 3 years if there is any problem. At several ocsasions, my wife got upset with me because I have obsessed with Honda technology and been doing lot of talk about Honda technology with her.
Accord is a true star model of Honda. Why wastes $45K+ on European cars with same or less value/ specifications. I do not think similar class European/ American cars can match with the Accord. The internet sale manager told me Honda made the '08 V6 EX Accord so people will only Accord and forget about MB or BMW, etc.
BTW, somebody may want to ask Golf to scan your sale contract with Honda & post it in this forum to prove he does own the car with VCM issue as he states.
I have several extra Accords at top working conditions to drive around so I want to take my time before driving much on my new one '08. One of my acquaintances bought a $60K+ sport MB and he let it stay in his garage for years without driving it much. I told his wife even without driving it much her husband's new MB will depreciate over time when new models come out and the engine & other parts in that car are still in the process of rusting. However, at low mileage the car is still better. That's similar with my Accord V6 EX '02 @ 61K mile. It still runs like brand new @ day one.
I told my wife that one folk in Edmunds forum tested the VSA of the Accord on highly snowy roads and its VSA worked "awesome". I said thanks to that folk because (1) I have never got a chance to test the VSA of my new car on snowy roads, (2) I am much more confident with Accord VSA and other safety features, (3) I get a chance to convince my wife that the new Accord has VSA that is truly needed when the drivers drive it on snowy roads and told her that I was right to buy a new Accord with extra safety features because my '05 Accord hybrid does not have VSA. I want to sooth her off that buying a new car is not always "luxury & unnecessary thing" when we still have "oldie cars" and they still run in "awesome" condition because I have "pampered and put fragrance on them when they get sick or need periodic maintenance". In NYC, there was a real story of an Accord owner that the thieves repeatedly stole goodie stuff in his Accord. And the last time they stole his whole Accord. There were several Volvo near that Accord but thieves did not steal or touch the Volvo. Thieves did steal my cousin's Accord in Canada. In Sacramento, thieves also stole old Accord. So, Accord owners, please be aware, .
Other car manufacturers may claim their cars have ABS, VSA, cruise control, brake assist, navi, etc...but it does not necessarily those features work at top conditions. But, with Honda when they claim their cars have specific features I am confident that those features work at top conditions because I have owned Honda motor bikes and cars for more than 40 years and been a loyal customers to Honda due to its excellence and its leadership in new technology.
As to Golf, the readers, especially Honda engineers and other engineers, may want to kindly ask him to scan his sale contract with Honda and post it here to prove his purchase of a new '08 Accord. His real name does not need to be revealed to protect his privacy. Mcpdjohn mentioned some bad guys even gave out badly low scores to nice Accord '08 to bring down its average score. If a buyer gives a Honda salesman under perfect score (less than 5) that review will be considered bad. Honda only counts the excellent score (5). So many Honda salesmen told me same thing.
Thanks for checking on...,me, Mcpdjohn. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to you and yours.
My powertrain warranty is 5 years/60,000 miles on my 2006 Accord. Your VCM should be covered under that, not just the 3/36k plan.
......probability for bottom line rectification of perceived VCM grief remains high.
..hang in there, 'ski.....it will all work out.
Season's best, ez....
Sure it is. If you take it for more than that you really shouldn't. Maybe we should all swear on a stack of bibles too. :surprise:
Let's drop the sarcasm and let the conversation take place between those who are interested, please.
The rest of you can move along - apparently there's nothing for you to see here.
A high-pressure turbo and an intercooler may be a complex system, but a tried and true system as SAAB initially used this system in the early '80s SAAB 900 Turbo. It's a very reliable design, and a high-pressure turbo will easily reach 150K miles without a failure if one changes oil regularly and uses a quality oil in the first place - and, not shut the engine down immediately after high-speed operation, so that you don't cook the oil out of the turbo's bearings.
Diesels, especially those used in over the road trucks, have been using this design for many years, and it's truly a reliable solution. I think some are just concerned with the long-term reliability question of the VCM system.
******************************************************************************
Don't be offended, but I've read enough at this point and feel several of you need a dose of common sense.
I'm plenty experienced enough to realize that what I have to say won't register properly with most of you younger guys, but it will register with a few who are wise beyond their years.
Sure, it's nice to be green and add a few MPG and save a few hundred bucks a year in gas. However, it usually ends up costing you in other ways - especially long term.
I find things like turbos and VCM to be too complex and too annoying when working properly. There's no guarantee they will continue to work properly - even during the warranty period. I'd especially be afraid to own a vehicle long term with either setup.
For decades, reliability has been important to me. Fortunately, I've found that in my last 3 Japanese vehicles. I came to realize that added complexity often leads to additional trips to a dealer service department (if under warranty) and additional costs once warranty expires.
I expected to find complaints about Honda's newest (more complex) VCM system and here they are! Beyond the current complaints, I can't help but wonder how well VCM will work at 100k miles and beyond. Will the cylinders that are active at all times wear prematurely? Will vibration gradually increase as a result? Will the complaints be numerous enough to land Accords with VCM on the "do not buy" list? That would hurt resale value.
Given the motivation, I'd go for the 4-banger or non-VCM V6/6MT. However, nothing in 11 years has been able to "motivate" me out of my 1997 Maxima GXE V6/5MT. It's quiet, comfortable, very reliable, and gets great gas mileage, thanks to a smaller V6 and a curb weight of less than 3100 pounds. It's still very quick and torquey by today's V6 standards, which are installed in cars of similar size that have gained at least 350 pounds.
Perhaps it's my age, but there isn't a midsize sedan or coupe that makes my old Maxima seem ancient. My Maxima is quieter on the highway than the new Accord (What's Honda's excuse?), gets similar gas mileage, rides and handles almost as well, has comfortable cloth seats, etc. I travel 1350 miles to Florida and back every year in reasonable comfort and without worrying about a breakdown. At 140k miles, it's still in great shape!
As much as I like Honda and a few other Japanese makes, they're going down the wrong road, as far as I'm concerned. The only big plus in newer models is increased safety. Make me a slightly larger Civic that rivals my Maxima in quickness (with a larger I4 or small V6 engine), comfort, smoothness, quietness, roominess, and I'll ditch my Maxima. The new Accord has grown a bit too large and complex for me.
Perhaps the 2009 Mazda3 or 2009 Corolla will be adequate for a few years or until someone makes an inexpensive sedan that meets my criteria for simplicity and comfort.
I too did think about the wear on the cylinders but my conclusion was not that there will be pre-mature failure of the cylinders that work all the time (they would work anyway), I think the other cylinders would stay newer since don't get used as much.
As for longetivity, I think I read somewhere here that another forum poster, Viet, has had a relatively older Honda w/ VCM and it works fine. Apparently, VCM is not that new to Honda.
Won't this apply to any car? As in case of your Maxima, all cylinders are active at all times. The result... they should all wear out prematurely. :P
Today's cars are more complex than cars of 20 years ago. Car makers also have more knowledge about how to build them, and refine them, than 20 years ago. As complex as today's cars are, I think they are at least as reliable as they were 20 years ago. A lot has been learned (about how to make cars more reliable) over the past 20 years. At least those companies that believe in R & D (Research and Developement) as an investment have. As reliable as my 92 Accord was, my 03 Accord has been at least as reliable ($0 on repairs at 51k miles) so far.
Very honestly the only minor issue I have with my Accord hybird '05 is the occasional "very tiny humming noise" when it switches between the electric & gas engine or vice versa when the car slows down on the freeway ramps... Otherwise, the car runs very strong, like a big cruising ship. Car "glues" on sharp narrow small winding roads very impressively. Its 255 HP runs impressively & effortlessly on all hills with 30/ 37+ MPG. When I start the engine it "VROOOOOM" to show its strong muscles. When it cruises the hybrid components generates a tiny sound "EEER EEER" very intetrestingly. Many drivers gets addicted to that tiny sound. In '06 & '07 Accord hybrid that "tiny humming noise" issue has been much refined. I have not heard any complains about same issue with Civic hybrid. In all hyrbrids, Civic is rated number one. Accord hybrid is rated number 10.
The '08 top Accord (VCM, ACE, VSA, ABS...) gets top 5 stars on reliability, engineering, overall value,etc, by automobile critics. The '08 top Accord I bought 3 weeks ago is my sixth Accord on the row excluding my 1986 Civic and many Honda motor bikes.
Every products have gone through process of inventions and refinements. As far as to the VCM of the Accord, it is unnoticeable.
At some point, however, the Maxima is not going to run like you want it to - and you will be forced to replacing it. And when you do, don't fret. . . I believe you are already in the place you fear. . . . just like the 08 Accords, you can't simply tweak the carborator in your 97 Maxima to tune the engine . . the timing is no longer adjusted with a timing gun and a wrench. The days of "simple" automobiles are LONG past and your 97 Maxima, in its day, likely was more complex that the new 08 Accords. We're all stuck in this age of incessent refinement and the skyrocketing price of gasoline is only going to make the problem worse. When it does come time to replace your Maxima, all you can do is learn about the options and pick the lesser of all the evils.
Rest assured, manufacturers like Honda and Toyota are going to use technology that is tried and tested. They sell too many cars to risk any major failures. They are not at the forefront of anything and their ability to "push the envelope" is limited by their own success. Leave the true risk-taking to those who have less to loose or those who want to try to take a stab at gaining on the kings of market share.
the advertising is misleading in my opinion.
You clearly do not understand how the auto industry works nor the history behind many manufacturing issues with both these automakers and "certain" prts and or components from time to time Noone is perfect. Now what i will say is its not so much the makers ability to be first to market or have a defective design more then it is their ability to correct.. which they both do well usually in the end