Honda Accord VCM

pat

The thing of it is that this is not a "big picture" discussion. We have a number of those, but this one is specifically about the VCM.

Let's please remember that.

golfrski

This is less about my personal crusade as it is staying on track for the discussion. Its important to share these experiences to find resolution to the issues. Honda and the Dealers are very aware of this issue i assure you its being debated offline as we type. This is a much broader issue and certainly will affect many many more new owners as more owners drive the car and find this and other avenues to share experiences. If this and other forums were simply portals for product and service "love-fests" then no real improvements and or ideas could be shared. Yes the squeaky wheel gets the grease and this is not a unicycle issue... there are many wheels and lots of squeeks.. Honda is a terrific company and I have never said anything less however, with this new VCM design they have illustrated some manufacturing /design short falls as evident by more than a few owners talking about it. This forum represents some users, but there are many many more out there that are doing the same in other forums etc.

I am a Honda loyalist and it is this 20 year loyalty that is fueling my search for not only a personal remediation but also to increase awareness to other loyal Accord owners that they are not alone with this nmew design and the VCM issues that are "known". Honda will hopefully fix this fast and circumvent further displeasure and or issues with "some" Accord owners. The issue is real and one to be educated on, and cautious with .... in my opinion.

blufz1

Hang in there,G. Honda,we don't want no stinkin' VCM.!!!!

blane

Pat,

You wrote "The thing of it is that this is not a "big picture" discussion. We have a number of those, but this one is specifically about the VCM."

When I wrote "I am trying to look at the BIG picture. At this point in time, the numbers of 2008 V6 owners that have reported VCM concerns appear to be miniscule in relation to the numbers of such vehicles in use" I was specifically referring to the overall (i.e. BIG picture), discussion of 2008 Honda Accord VCM, the title of this discussion. If only a very few owners are posting about VCM, the BIG picture seems to imply that the vast majority of V6 VCM owners are happy with the performance of their vehicles' VCM engines.

golfrski

Thanks Bluf.. the concept is cool but its not ready for primetime or at a min, needs tweaks for sure.

elroy5

If I were thinking about purchasing an 08 Accord with VCM, it would be nice to know that some owners are having issues with VCM. I would definitely pay attention to the issues golfrski describes, when test driving the car. I can see how someone without prior knowledge of this issue, might not pay enough attention to VCM operation, to notice these potential issues. I don't think anyone should automatically rule out the VCM equipped Accord, based on this, but knowing of the potential issues beforehand, would be helpful, IMO.

rodiron620

I could not agree more! This may end up being only an issue with "certain" early production cars from "certain" production centers who knows.. all I know is mine is "maddening"................... :mad: :mad: :mad:

Rodi-

phantomv

Well, apparently my ownership of 14 Honda products since 1981 does not overcome the idea that I might be on some personal campaign against Honda.
Too bad some people are so ignorant and jump to false , unsupported in fact, conclusions. As for my car - well my most recent "all around" mileage was 23.5 - with the annoying shifting into and out of ECO.

Trip mileage this weekend? About 28. I have to admit the shifting on the highway was not as bad on this trip as on others. Perhaps it is getting broken in?
It is still noticeable.but I guess I will just sit on the sidelines and see what Honda comes up with. Like I said - I drive it so little. If I had to drive it every day?? I would sell it.

pocolento

(apologies in advance for a naive question) Can someone please explain to me what happens in VCM, ie when a cylinder is 'inactivated'. I assume that the inactivated cylinder (IC) remains coupled to the other (active) cylinders, via the crankshaft, and that the piston in the IC continues to go up and down. But do compression - decompression cycles continue in the IC, and are the valves still opening and closing as before? How do they avoid the need for the active cylinders having to do work to overcome the compression phase in the inactive cylinders? And is it always the same 2, or 3, cylinders that are inactivated, or is there a rotating pattern? Can anyone suggest sources of non-proprietary technical information on how VCM works?

buttdonkey

HI AGAIN, just back from a 300 mile day trip with my accord v/6 .....the vibration at highway speed , wears you out.....hope there is fix coming soon

rodiron620

Call Honda Customer Care 800.999.1009 open a case and report/document it. Do the same with your services dept / dealer. Otherwise your issue will not be addressed properly. The vibration is a result of the 3cyl mode VCM operation and it isnt going to get any better my friend..... stinks I know. I feel your pain,,,, daily,.

pat

Here is a little information from Wikipedia: Variable Cylinder Management. It contains a link to a Canadian Driver article that provides more information.

Hope this helps.

home4sale2

Recently drove the EX-L-V6-auto and I have to say that the ride was exhilirating, the handling was superb. I currently drive an Audi and the ride definitely compares althought the caveat is that I didn't drive this on the highway as the sales guy was worried about putting too many miles on the car. Considering this was my first run and I intended to push the issue further when I was closer to making a purchase, I didn't argue the point with him. As for the VCM, I don't know if this was a mental thing but I felt that the car was a tad sluggish while the VCM sign went off the dashboard and all the horses woke up so to speak to give me the exhiliration that I referred to earlier. The moment the VCM sign went off, this car wanted to go go go. The reason I say this could be a mental thing is because for all we know this could be the auto tranny lag as well. My current Audi's CVT displays no such lag but there is that minute lag due to turbos and that's the best comparison I can make.

I guess it is something I could live with but it has put enough of a doubt in my mind to come here and start looking for other's comments on what I experienced (thus I found this forum). I am also trying to learn from my previous mistakes as I have never bought a car that was not an intro year and therefore have paid in repeated trips to the dealerships to get the problems repaired. Darn it, I wish the new TL was released this year so I could do a good comparison as I need a car soon.

Forget Audis, I am coming back to Honda/Acura regardless.

sunnfun

I would think about trying a different dealer and see if you can get it on the highway. I wish I would have done that rather than local driving. There is a world of difference. If you can get by the VCM issue, it is a good car and does drive nice.

sigp226

I test drove 2 EX V6 the last weekend. Knowing the potential issues on VCM, I intentionally paid attention to ECO light under the tech meter. My objective is to feel or sense the "kick" of the VCM when it goes from 6,4,3 or 3,4,6. I drove 20 miles on car 1, including going on highway at 80mph and local at 40. VCM kicked in on highway whenever I left my foot off the gas pedal and it also kicked in when I was going 40 local. Honestly I could not feel any difference when it is on or off. The engine pull strongly and tranny shifted smoothly.
I test drove car 2 today for about 6 miles. Again I paid special attention to the VCM and hope that I would be able to detect the activation of VCM. And again I could NOT feel anything on the second car. Now I own car 2.
It looks like VCM may be an issue in some cars but it should not be very prevalent. Problems on Camry's are tranny very commun if you look at Yahoo.Do not discount the car just for the oosible issue on VCM. Best avice is to take a test drive yourself. There are road noise but it is well under the accepitable range.
I have had an Acura Intergro, and it had been driven under extremely conditions including hot, humid, short trip and stop and go for 5 years. I never had any problems with it.

mcpdjohn

This is what the majority of us have been saying all along. There are a few people complaining about this, and they are trying to paint it as a design issue. Wrong. One of those people referred to it as "Honda's dirty little secret". Thats funny to me, as I have over 3,700 miles on my V6 Accord and the VCM remains as my favorite feature on a card laden with many great features.

phantomv

You are being dismissive of people with legitimate complaints, including the person who road tested the car for the Wall Street Journal. Does it bother you? NO? Fine - but do not diminish the sensitivities of others. Perhaps we are a bit more sensitive to it - I happen to be a very experienced driver and am very sensitive to a car's workings and responses. Once, years ago, when I had a Corvair I noticed one day that it did not "feel" right on the highway. Got out - sure enough - one of the plug wires was off - it had been only running on 5 cylinders. Might you have noticed it? Perhaps not. I can shift without a clutch and not grind the gears.
It IS a problem for some people - and it may not be the car but the combination of that and individual sensitivities to the machine they are operating. Others may be insensitive and oblivious. How many people do you see riding around on underinflated tires? I would notice that immediately in a car. THERE IS A DESIGN ISSUE AT WORK HERE - WHEN AN ENGINE GOES FROM 6-4-3 CYLINDERS OF OPERATION. Did you know a V-6 is naturally in "balance" when the cylinders are banked 60 degrees? A V-8 90 degrees? When you go from a 60 degree V-6 (or 90 degree V-6 with balance countershafts like GM has in its 3.8 liter V-6) to a V-4, or worse, an in-line three like the Honda VCM V-6, there ARE going to be inherent changes in harmonic balance and vibration. It seems that for the general population this engine may not be an issue - but for the true drivers out there, those who are truly "in tune" with their cars, this engine presents issues. That's what this is all about. I trusted Honda to make this seamless as they say in their advertising. It is not. My mistake. What I am saying now is this - DO NOT BUY THE VCM V-6 UNLESS YOU TEST DRIVE IT EXTENSIVELY. Otherwise you may find yourself a very unhappy camper.

blufz1

Some of us Honda loyalists just prefer to keep things simple which Honda seemed to do so well for so many years. Running a V6 on 1 bank doesn't seem simple to me. The non VCM coupe seems to perform better than the sedan, so something is at work here. I prefer the least fettered,most straightforward driving experience I can get,that's why buy Honda. But....I ain't buyin' no VCM!

phantomv

And if you read my earlier posts you KNOW I am a Honda loyalist - since '81 - 14 Honda/Acura!!!!! That is why I am particularly upset about the VCM's "seamless" claims! I feel betrayed for my loyalty.

whampa65

I've owned over 20 cars in my lifetime and consider myself a car aficionado and really believe this is isolated to certain cars. Believe me, if there was something wrong with this car I would notice it as I'm extremely anal when it comes to my cars and being aware if something unusual is going on. I've got almost 1,000 miles on my car now and I've really tried to come up with something bad to say about the VCM and I can't. I'm sure there are people that are having problems with it and I really am not discounting that. But don't try to say that the people who don't notice it are somehow inferior to the people that do. Since this discussion has begun I've gone out of my way to try to detect anything with the VCM and I haven't.
We'll see what happens down the road and believe me if I feel anything unusual with the VCM I will be the first one to post something on it. I'm sure Honda will come up with a recall if they find out this is a widespread problem, there bread and butter is there reliability and they can't afford to let that slip.

golfrski

TOTALLY AGREE!

phantomv

I was replying to mcpdjohn - not to anything you said. He was being dismissive of those on this board who are experiencing or sensing the shifting into and out of VCM. I was merely saying that some people are insensitive (not inferior in any way) to their cars and others more so - and it is a truthful statement. You say you are a car aficionado and you do not sense it. Fine, I am not arguing with you. But don't dismiss the rest of us who ARE sensing the shifting from 6-4-3. And why is anyone arguing with, or dismissing, those of us who are experiencing the problem anyway? This board is for discussion of the VCM - you aren't having a problem - great! But there are others who are and anyone interested in a 2008 V-6 Accord with auto should know about it. And check out Consumer Reports - they just did a test of family sedans and lowered their rating of the Accord V-6 EXL below an Altima because the fuel economy is WORSE than 2007. :confuse: Good God - what would the "economy" be without the VCM? And for that matter, I have to wonder how much more economical it is for three cylinders to be having to operate a 3600 pound car, AND three dead reciprocating pistons? They should have left the engine alone and put in a 6 speed auto with a tall OD - so MPH/1000RPMs in top gear would be in the 35-40 range. Now THAT would have improved highway mileage. My S2000 4 cylinder only got about 25 highway - 4000 RPM to go 76 MPH in 6th gear?? No wonder.

whampa65

I am a member of Consumer Reports and I did read the article. The Altima beat the Accord by 1 point and that was because of the gas mileage. Consumer Reports didn't say anything negative about the VCM as far as the problems being reported here. Let me repeat, I am in no way discounting anything anyone is experiencing on this forum and I commend everyone for bringing this discussion up. We all paid alot of money for our vehicles and if this is a wide spread problem than Honda should address this since they will be using this technology in more than one vehicle. I can understand why people are frustrated about this problem and I hope each and everyone of you get it fixed so we can put this baby to rest and enjoy our cars.

phantomv

CR specifically referred to the 2008 Accord's gas mileage being worse than the 2007 Accord - without VCM! So, exactly what have we accomplished here with VCM? That said - anyone check out the dash on an Acura RL? Very similar to the 2008 Accord. Wonder if they are built on the same platform - the Accord actually being larger. :confuse:

elroy5

Owners who are having problems with VCM, should not assume every VCM equipped Accord has the same issues. :sick: Owners who are not having issues with VCM, should not assume that issues don't exist. :sick:

Can't we all just get along? (where have I heard that before?)

golfrski

Phantom,

You it the nail on the piston head again. Have you called Honda of America and opened a case for your vehicle. If not its key that you do that not only for your issue but for others as well. Why Honda didnt simply add an on/off OD type option I will never understand, They could have easily advertised the car as fuel economy efficient and meet all the standard targets for EPA etc...

Golf-

pat

Thank you elroy - well said!

golfrski

I agree for sure. This HAS to be isolated to certain cars,, I will say I drove 5 random V6's and ALL of them had the Vibration and Surging, Lurching issues.. BUT I test drove them all around the same time and for the most part at 2 dealers very close to each other. My point being that perhaps they were all built at the same time and at the same plant Marysville vs?

in any event folks, I have 2 buddies that are dealing with the same issue now totally substantiated one lives in S.C and one in Ohio where these are built. Honda I am told, is aware of this concern and working on some sort of fix or resolution.. no real way to confirm that but it came from a very reliable source. They need to solve this somehow though as I am not sure I can stand it much longer, in fact I am thinking about dumping the car at this point. Something after 20 years of Honda Accord ownership i would have NEVER dreamed of saying.. its ashame really... darn shame as everything else about the car is awesome but they way it drives. Unfortunately I dont need a $30,000 lawn ornament.

I started this forum topic back in Oct to find others that were dealing with the same thing.. In the beginning I thought I was crazy, now I know I am both not alone nor headed for a straight jacket.

:sick:

sunnfun

Do you know if the Plant/Date the car was made is located somewhere on the sticker on the door post? (I have not looked so not sure). Maybe the people having issues such as myself can post that info in here. That way we can hopefully narrow down the cars with issues vs non issue cars.

hank119

phantomv and golfrski

I can see how you would be upset with a new car which affects you so negatively. I have not been able to experience any thing adverse while my 2008 EX-L V-6 is operating in the ECO mode. What should I be looking for, specifically. You mention a vibration. Where is this felt ? In the steering wheel ? Does it appear as motor roughness? Do you feel a sudden change in acceleration ? Is it a noise, a rattle or something else. Since reading your postings I've been paying very close attention to my VCM operation I still can't find anything to complain about. Whatever this strange behavior is, it seems to be something specific with your vehicles.

I hope Honda solves your problem. Keep us posted.

parviz

"....So, exactly what have we accomplished here with VCM?..."

Did we not get a bigger engine and more HP for almost the same gas mileage?

phantomv

I would say it is like a shudder going into eco.

phantomv

The road tests I have read show the 2008 V-6 auto SLOWER than the 2007.in acceleration. :sick:

thegraduate

The poster didn't say faster. They said more powerful. Which it is.

Increased size and weight have impeded acceleration, and without the 3.5L, the acceleration would be worse than it is (which is already great).

elroy5

I drove 5 random V6's and ALL of them had the Vibration and Surging,

This is the part that really puzzles me. So if you don't mind, I have a few questions:
Did they all exhibit the exact same issues? Do you consider this issue so apparent that virtually anyone would notice it? If someone test drove the car just around the block, do you think it would be apparent to him/her? Or would it only be noticed at highway speeds?

donegal

Maybe the people having issues such as myself can post that info in here. That way we can hopefully narrow down the cars with issues vs non issue cars.

My car was delivered to the dealer, from the Marysville plant, on Dec. 19 and I drove away with it on Dec. 21. It was returned for VCM problems (outlined in my previous posts) on Dec. 31. My last conversation with the Honda dealership indicated that the problem was identified and documented but a fix hasn't been found. The car is still at the dealership and I am now driving a new loaner car provided by the dealership. I have filed a case with Honda America.

sigp226

Sorry to hear that. Don't forget to check the lemon law of your state. I think (not sure) that in California, if the car is returned to the dealer 3 times for the same problem, the dealer will have to give you a new car or buy it back from you (again I am not sure).

blufz1

The non VCM V6 in the coupes performs better. Check out the road tests. The VCM V6 ran in the low 15's. The non VCM in the coupe ran 14.5.

hank119

>Maybe people having issues can post that info here. That way we can narrow down the cars with issues ...>

My car was manufactured December of '07 according to the label on the driver side door post. The sticker on my car has no dates on it but shows :
Final Assembly at Marysville Ohio
Cuntry of origin of engine USA
Country of origin of transmission USA

I have no problems with my VCM at all. It works as advertised..I have plenty of power and my gas mileage is more than satisfactory.

I noticed Donegal posted his vehicle's ship date as Dec. of '07 as well. But he has had a terrible experience with VCM. These are just two data points but this approach doesn't look promising.

phantomv

You are correct - I was inaccurate and jumped in my thought processes to the next conclusion. Yeah, more powerful, but with the heavier car, slower to accelerate and regardless of VCM, poorer fuel economy. Some progress! :confuse:

buttdonkey

HI,my Accord has a make date of 10/7 OHIO.........this car has the vibration problem at highway speed also.....

golfrski

Ipicked up my car Oct 30th has been to the dealer 6 times, they had it for weeks with a loaner.. its a nightmare. I want out!

golfrski

Have you opened a case with Honda of America about this?

golfrski

Vibration at 40-50MPH ands 65MPH + mostly in the seat, roughness in the motor feels like unbalanced tires.. wont go away even after balancing. Dealer says its not the tires. the Surging and Lurching in and out of ECO/VCM mode is maddening.. just as the WSJ article editor/review outlines.

buttdonkey

HI,i have tryed diffrent cold tire setting ,Honda has 32#front and rear......... i went to 34#front and rear....it seems to cut down on vibration somewhat and surging is less............did it solve the problem no ,but less vibration....and surging.....

buttdonkey

HI, for the fun of it check your tire pres.......frt and rear......when i got mine tire pres was 38#front rear...ride was very hard but no vibration or surging........then when i put right pres.32# front and rear problem of vibration started...............honda ships cars with high pres because they sit on the lots for awhile............maybe people with no problem ,have higher tire pres......just a thought.......

sunnfun

Mine is 10/07 and Marysville Ohio and I have the vibration/VCM/Tranny issue although not as bad as some others here. When I talked to the service dept, they said they had no complaints about the VCM (imagine that!) but she did say they had problems with the dashboard on some cars from Texas. They were loose and needed to be tightened up to take away the vibration noise.

golfrski

Folks this is NOT a tire issue, dont waste a lot of time on it. Honda has already stated to my wife and me that this is a VCM issue. Open a case with Honda and work it that way. You will never eliminate this issue with tire experimentation. Oh and btw, the service dept knows about this issue they juts arent telling you hoping you go away....

buttdonkey

HI,i understand its not a tire problem....as i said it helps ,but did not solve the problem.......one must try diffrent things as we wait for Honda to come out with a fix....try diffrent tire pres.you might find it helps.....

hank119

Donegal
I assumed your vehicle's date of manufacture was 12/07 from your post. You say it was delivered to your dealer on Dec. 19, but what is the manufacture date shown on the driver's side door pillar ? Since the date on my trouble free car is 12/07as well (as shown on the door pillar) I felt there was no correlation. However it might be interesting to know what the official manufacture date of your car was.

Several posters with the VCM problem now say that their cars were manufactured in October. Maybe sunfunn has a point.