Around Xmas I posted same problem for my Accord 2000, V6, 60,000 mi: stalls on starting: after 35+ minutes driving,turned off for 30 minutes or so, then re starting--stalls out. Dealer replaced EGR kit, cleaned jets. Problem has reappeared with regularity.(I believe same commentators replied to my posting.) I prematurely complimented the dealer and Honda, as a search over the past months reveals similar complaints. Initially, this problem impacted my state inspection.
I had a great experience this morning at the dealer service center (O'Hare Honda): They installed my Silverstar headlight bulbs in my '03 V6 Coupe at no charge. AND they washed my car. Amazing. The customer waiting area had coffee, TV, a free phone for customers, AND a computer connected to the internet for customer use. They'll be getting my business going forward for sure...
Was not suggesting that you take warranty work anywhere other than the dealer. As it was mentioned, that work is included in your warranty. But for other work, don't sell the abilities of the experienced independents short. I've been going to the one that I mentioned earlier for a variety of non-warranty work and I've never had an issue with anything they've done.
Whereas one local dealer replaced the transmission on my 2000 EX V6 and left the filler cap off of the remanufactured tranny. I didn't find out about it until the car was in an accident and the repair shop told me about it. By the way, that repair shop was an independent recommended by the dealership.
So I contend that it's stereotyping to assume that the dealer service department will always provide better quality work, and that an independent will always provide inferior work. It depends on the dealer and on the independent... there are good and "not so good" in both groups.
Just make the choice that feels best to you. There's no need to make disparaging remarks about the quality of either type of mechanic or shop. As I said, that's just stereotyping.
Thanks Lenny 20. Am I correct in understanding your situation is exactly like mine. That after replacing the EGR and cleaning the injectors ( did they take them apart or just flush them ?) that your car will still not start at times ? Does it appear to be caused by abnormal carbon builup? In regards to replacing the EGR, why did they do that, did you get a code ? I have not come across any one else with this problem, what year Accords do you know of having this problem ? What is your next step?
If you had a major medical problem, would you go to a "specialist" of just a regular MD?-------- Honda dealers know Honda vehicles.---- Why? ---- Because that is all that they work on, and they use original equipment parts!
Blanket statements such as these have no bearing on the individual situation. A dealership doesn't have a monopoly on knowledge about Hondas. Nor do they have exclusive access to Honda parts.
And your very qualified and knowledgeable independent repair shop doesn't have to charge the often highly padded prices necessary to offset the marginally profitable activities of the rest of the dealership.
As I said, do what seems best to you. Regardless of what you insist is the only way to go, there are always very reasonable alternatives.
I'd like to add though that dealer techs, as employees of a business, run the range of marginal to exceptional in terms of competence.
If a "marginal" tech attends to the car, one probably gets marginal quality as well. Case in point - when dealer changed the run channel to correct (unsuccesfully) our 03 Accord's window noise, the tech created a "pimple" (ding from the inside) while working on the driver's door.
2 points against dealer on that one.
Challenge with dealer service is that one doesn't get to know, or specify, the tech.
A private tech, on the other hand, is essentially an entrepreneur who's out to create a reputation and thus has strong motivation to do a good job. If he/she has an official Honda repair manual, and solid references, I'd probably prefer him/her over the dealer tech, especially for out-of-warranty work.
Excellent points. I too have experienced enough marginal to poor service at the hands of a dealership's service department to know that if you assume that you're guaranteed high quality service at a dealership, your confidence may be misplaced.
Many dealerships provide high quality service overall. Others do not. The same can be said of independents. If you want the best service for your car, you owe it to yourself to do the research and find the most qualified and knowledgeable mechanics, rather than assuming that dealerships have a monopoly on such mechanics. As you said, in many cases the best mechanics cut their teeth at a dealership and then use their skills and growing reputation to start their own businesses.
I have a private mechanic that specializes in Honda/Toyota/Mazda. I had been using him for years for my '89 MR2 and my wife's '92 Civic. We got rid of both those cars and I started taking my new '03 Accord to the dealer for all services while it was under warrantee. I figured that, even though they overcharge, at least if something happens to my new car they will not be able to say I did not have it serviced properly.
Well at my last oil change the "technician" that worked on my car did not tighten the oil plug. There was a big puddle of oil on my garage floor after I left it sit for a week.
My mechanic would have never been so absent minded. So as talon95 said - do whatever you feel most comfortable doing and what has worked best for you in the past. I will be going to my usual mechanic for my 20K service. I am confident he will do a better job for less money than the dealer.
It is ridiculous to say that dealers are in any way, shape or form better than private repair shops. Like everything else in life, it depends on who does the work. (BTW Greg - the same goes for doctors!)
If you haven't tried your dealer's service department, please give them a chance.
I have heard of people having terrible experiences with their dealership's service, and I scrutinize dealer services myself. However, I have had nothing but TOP NOTCH service from my dealership.
From the way they open the glass door and I drive right inside the building (great for inclement weather) to the way they are very communicative throughout the experience, my dealership (Scholfield of Wichita KS) is absolutely amazing. They treat me as though I purchased an $80K++ exclusive automobile, and have done incredible service work for me. They even went out of their way with diagnostic inspection after my car was stolen after only 6 mos of ownership. I can't say enough good things about them, and their prices are FAIR. As far as I can tell, they also go by established labor standards, and even charge for fewer hours if the condition exists.
I realize my experiences may differ from the norm, but I encourage others to give them a chance. I can't tell you how comfortable my service staff makes the whole experience. Including how they always give me a free rental car whenever I visit, and I'm always in and out in my new premium rental within 20 minutes.
So, to combat blanket statements, please give them a chance--if for nothing more than a quote/diagnostic.
The most important thing in the "world of automobile ownership" is the process of "selecting a dealer". Most people go to a dealer that sells a vehicle at the lowest possible price. "Price" is not everything! A dealership is a business. For a business to survive, it must generate money. If they are not making enough money on the front end of the business, they will save money on the back end of the business, and that translates into poor "paid" and "warranty" service, (especially the warranty service). If you purchase a vehicle from a dealership that sells a very large number of vehicles per year, right from the start, you know that their service department cannot support the number of vehilces that are on the road with their name plate on the back, and warranty work will be a bad dream. Years ago I worked for a new car dealership that sold cars for a VERY LOW price. (A HIGH VOLUMN DEALER). The people got what they paid for with that price. The vehicle was washed and delivered. Nothing more and nothing less. I have a great dealer, and they have some great mechanics. I have never been disappointed with the qulity of their work. They are a very small dealship, and they depend on repeat customers for sales and service.----- There is a highway dealer closer to our home, that we avoid. In 1997 when we were in the market for our first Honda Accord, we stoped at this dealership, and they tried to "manipulate us" into making a purchase. One half hour with these people, and you could get a picture of their service department from their "front end attitude". Yes, making a "dealer selection" is the most important part of vehicle ownership, and "price" should not be the only standard for that judgement! When we bring our vehicles in for service, we make it a point to recognize the mechanic that gets our job, in some small way. Yes, we leave a "small cash tip",($5.00), with the Repair Order. During the Holidays we make it a point to recognize the Service Writer and the Service Manager in some small way for the service, concern and professionalism that they have extended to us during the year.(We give them a bottle of cheer). We treat these people like valued human beings, and they return that treatment with excellent careing service.--- When we have our boat serviced by the marina, I always make it a point to recognize the mechanic in some small way. (We give him the price of a lunch in the area). During the season, I will drop off a case of "liquid refreshments", (every couple of weeks), for the staff to be used after work. In life what goes around does come around. Show your appreciation to someone and you will see the whole picture change! I don't believe in "organized religion", but I believe in human beings. If we were all respected and appreciated one another, life would be more enjoyable! Remember you only pass this way once. Go to a nursing home or an assisted living home and look at these people. When you come down to it, "money" is not all that important! ---Greg
That's all very nice... it doesn't seem to address the topic at hand, but it's very nice.
I guess I feel fortunate that I have a solid business relationship with my independent that includes mutual respect and appreciation. They are dedicated professionals, so gifts are not required to ensure their best quality. We are perfectly capable of expressing appreciation to each other in non-monetary ways.
I disagree that the most important thing in the world of automobile ownership is the process of selecting a dealer. Here in Madison we only have one dealership for Honda, that's not much of a choice. Personally, I've never felt that they give great service or prices, however my good friend swears by them. I will be do my service there until my car is out of warranty, but will be taking it to an independent shop after that because they have given me excellent vehicle service with supreme customer service. They aren't that much cheaper than the dealer, but they treat me humanely and I never feel there is something shady going on. If I had more than one dealership to choose from I may be telling a different story, but I doubt it. My mechanic has been more patient and understanding than ANY dealership has been. In my opinion the world of automotive ownership isn't as SIMPLE as finding a dealer. I break up my automotive ownership into different areas: purchase, maintenance and repairs. I shopped around and saved about $4k on my car by driving 90 miles to Milwaukee, but I don't really considered doing my maintenance or repairs there.
Porknbeans
Grand High Poobah The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Being Honda product owners, it's probably fair to say we selected Honda because their products were made right to start with.
That said, at least in my case, I expect to have minimal post-sale interaction with the dealer.
Creating and building relationships with dealers may be an acceptable tradeoff for buying a low-priced, marginally engineered car (or a high-maintenance aspiration car).
But a premium-priced mainstream car like an Accord ? I think not.
Let me understand your position on "dealer service". You live in Madison, where there is one Honda dealer, and you go 90 miles to Milwaukee to purchase your new vehicle, and you expect the local dealer,(in Madison), to treat you like a "valued customer"???????? ----Why didn't you go to the local dealer and make the best possible deal? You would then be his / her customer. Now you would get the type of personal attention that you expect.---- The way you purchased your vehicle, you are not a customer of either dealer! The dealer in Milwaukee knows that you will never be back for service, and you are only interested in bottom line price. The local dealer knows that you made a "great deal" on the purchase price, and now you want to use them for warranty service. Why would they want to deal with you? I don't think this is fair to the local dealer! If I was the local dealer, I would never sevice your vehicle! If you insisted on service, I would make you wait 30 days for a service appointment. I would take care of my customers first!
Oh please! Like the local dealer doesn't make most of his profit on service, warranty or otherwise? I agree that the front end and back end of the dealer experience are separable because the Accord is a commodity product with any number of sales and service options. Honda customers usually have several choices where to buy and where to go for service. Saavy owners will explore and exploit those options.
"Why didn't you go to the local dealer and make the best possible deal?"
Hey, it's called free market. When the company doesn't allow competitive dealerships, then you have to go to one who will compete for the business.
The warranty work is paid by the company. The dealer is required to do that work. If they want to mistreat you as a customer, you certainly won't buy there the next time. And I will complain to Honda about the dealer's service.
In New Jersey there may be lots of competition among Honda dealers, but in some areas the monopoly system still is in place.
Please explain why my posting #7178 does not address the topic at hand. It deals with vehicle service and Honda dealers. It deals with my position on this subject of getting quality service from my selling dealer. Kindly explain you position! -----Greg
Complaining to Honda about a dealer, will not get you anywhere with the dealer. You cannot force a dealer to do your warranty work. There are any number of excuses that they can use not to take your work. You state that you would not purchase from a dealer, who did not accept warranty work on a vehicle, purchase at another dealer. Question: ----What would he be loosing? You did not purchase the car from him originally. Are you talking about a potential sale down the road? ----From the dealer's point of view, you are either a customer, or you are not a customer.
Your whole theory of dealers wanting sale and service just does not hold a lot of water. People move, buy used Honda's and dealerships are always happy to perform work on them if a decent service department. Your ploy on denying warranty service since vehicle not purchased there makes little sense also. If they deny you service (reimbursable to them by Honda) you can go elsewhere and they lose you as a customer likely permanenently. Doing warranty work makes you a happy customer and happy customers come back for more service and potentially new Honda's.....
My girlfriend took her 9 year old 140k mile Civic to a dealership for the first time ever since brand new with a check engine light and stalling after high speed. They stated good news mentioned $1500 (cat and two O2 sensors) but then stated all under an extended warranty. She picked the car up for $50 for various parts not covered by warranty and drove away smiling. She has returned for major services at 30k interval.
No, it's not part of an ideal world. It's mandated in their dealership agreement. And it's smart business, if the owners have one iota of business savvy.
Thanks Lenny 20. Am I correct in understanding that after changing the EGR completely and cleaning the injectors ( was it a flush or did they take them apart ?), that you still currently have the same problem as I do ? If so, then what the dealership did for you was not the solution at all ? Why did the dealership replace the EGR, did you get a code ? Did you have excessive carbon build up ? You mention that you have found others with the same problem, however my case is the only when I know of so far. Is it a large of others and what year of accord is affected. What have or do you plan to do now ?
Well, if that's the attitude at your dealership, let me say that, if I were a service customer needing warranty work and who bought the car from another dealer, my first service visit to your dealership would be my last visit there for ANY reason. That's an amazingly short sighted business policy. One that could potentially generate a huge amount of bad will and have a huge negative impact on their reputation. And one that I seriously doubt they actually have.
Here's a business policy that the truly exceptional dealership service department would subscribe to:
Treat all "warranty work" customers well, and keep your current sales customers AND win future sales customers.
I have an excellent example of why this works. 6 years ago, when I moved across town, I took my car (not a Honda) to a nearby dealership for warranty work. They treated me as well as the dealership from which I bought the car. And they were obviously interested in getting me as a sales customer, as I started getting lots of mailings from them for various sales. Believe me, had I decided to go with the same brand for my next car, that dealership would have been at the top of my list.
Exactly right! My local Toyota dealer advertises that they want to service your Toyota, no matter where you bought it. We happen to have one of those high-volume, but poor service, Toyota dealers about 20 miles West of Charleston & I know that my local dealer wins a lot of service(warranty and otherwise)and sales, because of their excellent service dept.
A dealers first obligation is to take care of the customers who purchased a vehicle from their dealership. These people represent the dealer's "loyal customer base". Yes, some customers move from other locations, and they also need service. But, some customers go out of their way to purchase their vehicle at another location, because of a "lower price", and then try to get a local dealership to do their warranty service. YES, the dealer must accept them as customers, but it is simply NOT FAIR to the dealer, and he / she has every right to put them last on the service waiting list. If a person wants to "shop the vehicle purchase" for "price", then they should be willing to take it back to where they purchased the vehicle for warranty service. Don't try to get the lowest price 100 miles away from your home, and then expect convenient service at the local home town dealer. Many of these customers are only at the dealership for "warranty service", and they would not give the dealer a dimes worth of regular maintenance work! ---How "fair" it that?
I'm sorry but I just don't buy your logic gc1. Unless a dealer's service dept has more business than it can handle I say he welcomes any service customer with enthusiasm. If you, Mr. Dealer, are in business to make a customer for life ( isn't that your objective), do you really give a hoot when he first walked in the door?
"YES, the dealer must accept them as customers, but it is simply NOT FAIR to the dealer, and he / she has every right to put them last on the service waiting list."
Sorry, Greg, you can say it over and over again, but I'm not buying it. Any service department that is run and managed by professionals would not discriminate against customers like that. Apparently, your impression is that if you don't have some kind of inroad with the service department (sales customer, a "known to tip and give gifts" customer), they'll treat you poorly, and somehow this is a sound and reasonable business practice??? What an sadly skewed view of how things should work!
The mechanics with whom I do business do their jobs because they have a good work ethic and pride in what they do. They don't separate people into categories of "deserves good, fast service" and "doesn't deserve good, fast service". They're professionals and don't require tips and gifts to establish a good working relationship with their customers. They're there to do a job and to build and maintain their good reputation, and this "have - have not" attitude that you seem to think is so fair and reasonable is exactly the wrong way to do this.
As I said, if the service department at your dealership truly displays this attitude, I wouldn't take my business there if they were the last Honda dealer on earth. Because if I don't deserve to be treated well as a customer, regardless of whether or not I bought my car there, their service department doesn't deserve my business, paid work, warranty work, ANY work. And I hope that such practices eventually go full circle and "reward" them with the reputation for poor customer service that such questionable business practices should earn them. If I were treated so poorly for these reasons, I'd tell everybody who would listen about it. And nothing damages a reputation more effectively than bad word of mouth.
And one final note... if dealership service departments really DO discriminate against customers as you suggest, that's the best argument yet to take your car to a qualified independent, who will treat everyone like a valued customer.
You truly have no concept how car dealer's operate and your logic is a little scary! All warranty work is surveyed independently for almost every repair done in the shop. All customers are asked about their experience with the service department. Their comments are sent to and reviewed by Honda. Each dealer receives a rating, which translates to how Honda rewards and punishes that dealer. All dealers want the highest ratings possible and strive to treat every customer the best they can, so they will get high marks. It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever where you bought your car from. The bottom line is some service departments are better, so take your car where you get the most satisfaction.
My tokens of appreciation have nothing to do with my standing on the service list. I simply appreciate their courtesy, concern, quality of service, and professionalism. They treat me "VERY WELL", and I return that professional treatment by purchasing all my vehicles from the dealership. Yes, there is the possibility that I could purchase a Honda cheaper at another dealer, but I could never duplicate the service from my dealer. They are simply "OUTSTANDING"!----- When any dealer takes care of their loyal customer's first, that is not discrimination, that is simply "GOOD BUSINESS"! After all,--- the other customers, do not make a major purchase at the delaership, they go elsewhere for the "lowest price", then they want to give the local dealer the "burden" of fixing a vehicle that was not delivered properly by the "low price dealer". The service department at most new car dealers can barely service the vehicles that they sell on a yearly basis, and that they have sold in the past. Taking on added "warranty customers" from other dealers just adds to the "stress of the operation".
Nice logic, but it doesn't hold water in the "real world" of business.---- I have worked in a new dealership, and we always took care of our "in house customers" first, because these were the people that we could depend on to keep us in business. They were the people who purchase and / or leased a vehicle every two or three years. They came back to us for oil and filter changes, and regular maintenance. You see "loyality" works two ways!---- An NO, my logic is not scary, it is based on "real life experience"!
bd21 has it all about right in a nut shell, and it does hold water in the real world. Its all about the TSI and CSI (total satisfaction index and customer satisfaction index) when it comes to warranty.When you get good numbers it helps with how many cars Honda sends you to sell and other rewards along the way. I understand your thoughts on customers that buy their cars at dealers getting extras but those extras are usally in the squeeze in appointments and in the mailers for discounts.
"The service department at most new car dealers can barely service the vehicles that they sell on a yearly basis, and that they have sold in the past. Taking on added "warranty customers" from other dealers just adds to the "stress of the operation"."
In the scenario that I described earlier (warranty work at a dealership that didn't sell me the car), I was not there as a "lowball buyer from another dealer", but they had no way of knowing that. Yet they treated me every bit as well as the selling dealer had. Wow, treating a customer promptly and courteously regardless of their previous business with you... what an amazing concept! Despite the fact that your dealership seems to be unwilling to do so, there are many, many dealers out there without such a "customer antagonistic" attitude.
So why your dealership's operation is "so stressed" that they're unable to treat all customers equitably is puzzling. After all, we're talking about Hondas, which have a great reputation for NOT requiring a lot of warranty work. I'm on my second Accord, and had to have warranty work done twice... both on the first one. My selling dealer's service department is very busy, but I never get the impression that they're "overly stressed".
So why is your dealership so "stressed"? Based on your reports on their business practices, I would guess a poor management philosophy and a sub-standard work ethic. The attitude of your service department towards customers is appalling.
When I was shopping for an Accord a year ago, I had negotiated what I thought was a good deal with a local dealer here in Virginia. But, just for the heck of it, I contacted an auto buying service and they were able to negotiate an even better deal for me with a different dealer about 60 miles away. My budget was really tight so I had to go with the dealer located 60 miles away.
Needless to say, 60 miles is way too far to drive for oil changes and other service. Luckily, a third dealer in Virginia is only a mile from my home and they are the ones who do all the service work on my car. Although I tried to work a deal with this dealer on the initial purchase, their price was too high so I didn't buy from them.
Anyway, whenever I show up for service, they treat me like a king (in and out quickly, never have to wait more than a day or two for an appointment). In fact, I don't even think that the service guys know (or even care for that matter) that I turned down the high priced offer from their sales department and bought the car from the other dealer 60 miles away. If they do know, they sure don't seem to care too much.
The good thing about where I live (Wash, DC Metro area) is that there are tons of Honda dealers and independent shops all competing for your business. If I were in a small town, maybe it would be a problem if I bought from one dealer and then went to a different dealer for service. But everything I'm hearing about dealer profits says that they're making most of their money from the service department and not the sales department. Most consumers are very savvy these days when it comes to auto buying, and as a result the sales depts don't make the kinds of profits they made years ago.
So, in my opinion, it really is in the best interest of the dealership's service department to welcome as many customers as they can without regard to where they purchased their cars in the first place.
Did I say My Dealership???? ---I thought we were talking about "dealership operations" in general!---You really jump to conclusions! ---Every service dapartment of a new car dealership is always very busy. If they are not, it is because the front end of the dealership is not selling new or used vehicles. Read my postings carefully.
In case you've forgotten, here's a little excerpt from your post #7200:
"My tokens of appreciation have nothing to do with my standing on the service list. I simply appreciate their courtesy, concern, quality of service, and professionalism. They treat me "VERY WELL", and I return that professional treatment by purchasing all my vehicles from the dealership. Yes, there is the possibility that I could purchase a Honda cheaper at another dealer, but I could never duplicate the service from my dealer. They are simply "OUTSTANDING"!-----"
"... my standing on the service list... the service from my dealer... " Hmmm... lots of information and claims about your dealership.
This is as much as about your dealership and your relationship with them as anything else. So spare me the accusations of "jumping to conclusions".
Let's agree to disagree. There is no point to this discussion! You WIN! You are Correct! You have all the knowledge on this subject! I give up! Have a nice day!
Yes, Greg, let's agree to disagree. Your gesture would have seemed far more genuine had you not felt compelled to take a parting shot with the sarcasm, but at least the discussion is over.
Some individuals are slick at handling customers and taking them for a 'ride' at the same time. In Tires, Tires, Tires, this fluffing story has been posted: driftracer "Tires, tires, tires" Mar 12, 2004 1:44pm
Makes one wonder when a business person of any kind is really supernice to customers, just how nice are they being...
Years ago, car dealerships HATED warranty work. It didn't pay nearly as well as regular "customer pay" work and the customers were usually more demanding. The domestics fared the worst, trying to fix rattles etc. As I understand it, things have improved a bit in recent years.
I once heard the owner of a small town Buick dealership tell a customer..." If that mega-Buick dealership was good enough to sell you the car, they ought to be good enough to do your %#@$ warranty work!"
" Well...they sold me the car for less. They are 30 miles away and it's not convenient for me to drive there"
" You should have thought about that before you cut my throat for 100.00...goodbye"
I would like to think these days have ended.
As Bd21 points out, dealers today are surveyed by their customers who have had warranty work done and are held strictly accountable. I'm sure this came as a result of mistreatment in the past.
Only a short sighted dealer would treat a warranty customer who bought elsewhere in a second rate fashion.
Still, I'll go to bat for any of my customers who have bought a car from me in cases of special requests, help on out of warranty repairs etc.
I also had some defects in my '04 accord coupe. The headliner was making crackling noise when I changed lanes. brought it back to the dealership and they installed some more foam underneath and the problem was fixed. But now I found another defect, my trunk latch inside the car doesn't work. key lock mechanism seems to be stuck in the lock position even thought i put in the key and move it from lock to the unlock position. I am getting this rattling noises when I push on the acceelarator on the freeway. Lastly, when I reverse out of the driveway and then put it in drive and drive away. I get this grinding feel like the brake is rubbing against something or a mud guard. The only thing is that i don't have mud guards. Any takes???
Hi friends, I am a happy owner of a 2003 Accord with about 29k miles on it. The car has been flawless, except for a peculiar sound at start up, as described below:
As soon as I turn the key to start the car, there is sometimes a teeth gnashing sound, like a chkkkk, and then the car starts fine. This happens infrequently, so I am hesistating going to the dealer, since I may not be able to reproduce the sound there.
As you aware of any issues with the 2003 starters? Is there any TSB or recall? If so, please let me know.
Take it soon as possible and try to recreate. If its documented before warranty period is expired and not addressed, it gives you some help if warranty expires. My experience is that typically the repair is covered after warranty passes if within a reasonable amount of time.
Comments
A lot of those shops are great at doing the "gravy" jobs and routine service but when a problem is hard to figure out, guess who comes back to us?
Whereas one local dealer replaced the transmission on my 2000 EX V6 and left the filler cap off of the remanufactured tranny. I didn't find out about it until the car was in an accident and the repair shop told me about it. By the way, that repair shop was an independent recommended by the dealership.
So I contend that it's stereotyping to assume that the dealer service department will always provide better quality work, and that an independent will always provide inferior work. It depends on the dealer and on the independent... there are good and "not so good" in both groups.
Just make the choice that feels best to you. There's no need to make disparaging remarks about the quality of either type of mechanic or shop. As I said, that's just stereotyping.
And your very qualified and knowledgeable independent repair shop doesn't have to charge the often highly padded prices necessary to offset the marginally profitable activities of the rest of the dealership.
As I said, do what seems best to you. Regardless of what you insist is the only way to go, there are always very reasonable alternatives.
I'd like to add though that dealer techs, as employees of a business, run the range of marginal to exceptional in terms of competence.
If a "marginal" tech attends to the car, one probably gets marginal quality as well. Case in point - when dealer changed the run channel to correct (unsuccesfully) our 03 Accord's window noise, the tech created a "pimple" (ding from the inside) while working on the driver's door.
2 points against dealer on that one.
Challenge with dealer service is that one doesn't get to know, or specify, the tech.
A private tech, on the other hand, is essentially an entrepreneur who's out to create a reputation and thus has strong motivation to do a good job. If he/she has an official Honda repair manual, and solid references, I'd probably prefer him/her over the dealer tech, especially for out-of-warranty work.
Many dealerships provide high quality service overall. Others do not. The same can be said of independents. If you want the best service for your car, you owe it to yourself to do the research and find the most qualified and knowledgeable mechanics, rather than assuming that dealerships have a monopoly on such mechanics. As you said, in many cases the best mechanics cut their teeth at a dealership and then use their skills and growing reputation to start their own businesses.
Well at my last oil change the "technician" that worked on my car did not tighten the oil plug. There was a big puddle of oil on my garage floor after I left it sit for a week.
My mechanic would have never been so absent minded. So as talon95 said - do whatever you feel most comfortable doing and what has worked best for you in the past. I will be going to my usual mechanic for my 20K service. I am confident he will do a better job for less money than the dealer.
It is ridiculous to say that dealers are in any way, shape or form better than private repair shops. Like everything else in life, it depends on who does the work. (BTW Greg - the same goes for doctors!)
If you haven't tried your dealer's service department, please give them a chance.
I have heard of people having terrible experiences with their dealership's service, and I scrutinize dealer services myself. However, I have had nothing but TOP NOTCH service from my dealership.
From the way they open the glass door and I drive right inside the building (great for inclement weather) to the way they are very communicative throughout the experience, my dealership (Scholfield of Wichita KS) is absolutely amazing. They treat me as though I purchased an $80K++ exclusive automobile, and have done incredible service work for me. They even went out of their way with diagnostic inspection after my car was stolen after only 6 mos of ownership. I can't say enough good things about them, and their prices are FAIR. As far as I can tell, they also go by established labor standards, and even charge for fewer hours if the condition exists.
I realize my experiences may differ from the norm, but I encourage others to give them a chance. I can't tell you how comfortable my service staff makes the whole experience. Including how they always give me a free rental car whenever I visit, and I'm always in and out in my new premium rental within 20 minutes.
So, to combat blanket statements, please give them a chance--if for nothing more than a quote/diagnostic.
I guess I feel fortunate that I have a solid business relationship with my independent that includes mutual respect and appreciation. They are dedicated professionals, so gifts are not required to ensure their best quality. We are perfectly capable of expressing appreciation to each other in non-monetary ways.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Being Honda product owners, it's probably fair to say we selected Honda because their products were made right to start with.
That said, at least in my case, I expect to have minimal post-sale interaction with the dealer.
Creating and building relationships with dealers may be an acceptable tradeoff for buying a low-priced, marginally engineered car (or a high-maintenance aspiration car).
But a premium-priced mainstream car like an Accord ? I think not.
Hey, it's called free market. When the company doesn't allow competitive dealerships, then you have to go to one who will compete for the business.
The warranty work is paid by the company. The dealer is required to do that work. If they want to mistreat you as a customer, you certainly won't buy there the next time. And I will complain to Honda about the dealer's service.
In New Jersey there may be lots of competition among Honda dealers, but in some areas the monopoly system still is in place.
Free market.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My girlfriend took her 9 year old 140k mile Civic to a dealership for the first time ever since brand new with a check engine light and stalling after high speed. They stated good news mentioned $1500 (cat and two O2 sensors) but then stated all under an extended warranty. She picked the car up for $50 for various parts not covered by warranty and drove away smiling. She has returned for major services at 30k interval.
Here's a business policy that the truly exceptional dealership service department would subscribe to:
Treat all "warranty work" customers well, and keep your current sales customers AND win future sales customers.
I have an excellent example of why this works. 6 years ago, when I moved across town, I took my car (not a Honda) to a nearby dealership for warranty work. They treated me as well as the dealership from which I bought the car. And they were obviously interested in getting me as a sales customer, as I started getting lots of mailings from them for various sales. Believe me, had I decided to go with the same brand for my next car, that dealership would have been at the top of my list.
Sorry, Greg, you can say it over and over again, but I'm not buying it. Any service department that is run and managed by professionals would not discriminate against customers like that. Apparently, your impression is that if you don't have some kind of inroad with the service department (sales customer, a "known to tip and give gifts" customer), they'll treat you poorly, and somehow this is a sound and reasonable business practice??? What an sadly skewed view of how things should work!
The mechanics with whom I do business do their jobs because they have a good work ethic and pride in what they do. They don't separate people into categories of "deserves good, fast service" and "doesn't deserve good, fast service". They're professionals and don't require tips and gifts to establish a good working relationship with their customers. They're there to do a job and to build and maintain their good reputation, and this "have - have not" attitude that you seem to think is so fair and reasonable is exactly the wrong way to do this.
As I said, if the service department at your dealership truly displays this attitude, I wouldn't take my business there if they were the last Honda dealer on earth. Because if I don't deserve to be treated well as a customer, regardless of whether or not I bought my car there, their service department doesn't deserve my business, paid work, warranty work, ANY work. And I hope that such practices eventually go full circle and "reward" them with the reputation for poor customer service that such questionable business practices should earn them. If I were treated so poorly for these reasons, I'd tell everybody who would listen about it. And nothing damages a reputation more effectively than bad word of mouth.
And one final note... if dealership service departments really DO discriminate against customers as you suggest, that's the best argument yet to take your car to a qualified independent, who will treat everyone like a valued customer.
In the scenario that I described earlier (warranty work at a dealership that didn't sell me the car), I was not there as a "lowball buyer from another dealer", but they had no way of knowing that. Yet they treated me every bit as well as the selling dealer had. Wow, treating a customer promptly and courteously regardless of their previous business with you... what an amazing concept! Despite the fact that your dealership seems to be unwilling to do so, there are many, many dealers out there without such a "customer antagonistic" attitude.
So why your dealership's operation is "so stressed" that they're unable to treat all customers equitably is puzzling. After all, we're talking about Hondas, which have a great reputation for NOT requiring a lot of warranty work. I'm on my second Accord, and had to have warranty work done twice... both on the first one. My selling dealer's service department is very busy, but I never get the impression that they're "overly stressed".
So why is your dealership so "stressed"? Based on your reports on their business practices, I would guess a poor management philosophy and a sub-standard work ethic. The attitude of your service department towards customers is appalling.
And for the record, your "logic" is indeed scary.
Needless to say, 60 miles is way too far to drive for oil changes and other service. Luckily, a third dealer in Virginia is only a mile from my home and they are the ones who do all the service work on my car. Although I tried to work a deal with this dealer on the initial purchase, their price was too high so I didn't buy from them.
Anyway, whenever I show up for service, they treat me like a king (in and out quickly, never have to wait more than a day or two for an appointment). In fact, I don't even think that the service guys know (or even care for that matter) that I turned down the high priced offer from their sales department and bought the car from the other dealer 60 miles away. If they do know, they sure don't seem to care too much.
The good thing about where I live (Wash, DC Metro area) is that there are tons of Honda dealers and independent shops all competing for your business. If I were in a small town, maybe it would be a problem if I bought from one dealer and then went to a different dealer for service. But everything I'm hearing about dealer profits says that they're making most of their money from the service department and not the sales department. Most consumers are very savvy these days when it comes to auto buying, and as a result the sales depts don't make the kinds of profits they made years ago.
So, in my opinion, it really is in the best interest of the dealership's service department to welcome as many customers as they can without regard to where they purchased their cars in the first place.
"My tokens of appreciation have nothing to do with my standing on the service list. I simply appreciate their courtesy, concern, quality of service, and professionalism. They treat me "VERY WELL", and I return that professional treatment by purchasing all my vehicles from the dealership. Yes, there is the possibility that I could purchase a Honda cheaper at another dealer, but I could never duplicate the service from my dealer. They are simply "OUTSTANDING"!-----"
"... my standing on the service list... the service from my dealer... " Hmmm... lots of information and claims about your dealership.
This is as much as about your dealership and your relationship with them as anything else. So spare me the accusations of "jumping to conclusions".
You have a nice day too.
taking them for a 'ride' at the same time.
In Tires, Tires, Tires,
this fluffing story has been posted:
driftracer "Tires, tires, tires" Mar 12, 2004 1:44pm
Makes one wonder when a business person of any kind is really
supernice to customers, just how nice are they being...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Years ago, car dealerships HATED warranty work. It didn't pay nearly as well as regular "customer pay" work and the customers were usually more demanding. The domestics fared the worst, trying to fix rattles etc. As I understand it, things have improved a bit in recent years.
I once heard the owner of a small town Buick dealership tell a customer..." If that mega-Buick dealership was good enough to sell you the car, they ought to be good enough to do your %#@$ warranty work!"
" Well...they sold me the car for less. They are 30 miles away and it's not convenient for me to drive there"
" You should have thought about that before you cut my throat for 100.00...goodbye"
I would like to think these days have ended.
As Bd21 points out, dealers today are surveyed by their customers who have had warranty work done and are held strictly accountable. I'm sure this came as a result of mistreatment in the past.
Only a short sighted dealer would treat a warranty customer who bought elsewhere in a second rate fashion.
Still, I'll go to bat for any of my customers who have bought a car from me in cases of special requests, help on out of warranty repairs etc.
I think that's worth something too.
It's now a Mexican restaurant.
There's a topic over in M&R just for this debate.
Dealer vs Independent Shop?
Please take your comments concerning this topic there.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But now I found another defect, my trunk latch inside the car doesn't work. key lock mechanism seems to be stuck in the lock position even thought i put in the key and move it from lock to the unlock position.
I am getting this rattling noises when I push on the acceelarator on the freeway.
Lastly, when I reverse out of the driveway and then put it in drive and drive away. I get this grinding feel like the brake is rubbing against something or a mud guard. The only thing is that i don't have mud guards. Any takes???
As soon as I turn the key to start the car, there is sometimes a teeth gnashing sound, like a chkkkk, and then the car starts fine. This happens infrequently, so I am hesistating going to the dealer, since I may not be able to reproduce the sound there.
As you aware of any issues with the 2003 starters? Is there any TSB or recall? If so, please let me know.