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Lincoln MKT

gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
Ok, here it is. Any comments on this car?


  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Where are the pictures?
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815

    Autoblog and Left Lane News has more pics but here is Ford's media release. This is a strange looking beast but at least it looks nothing like a Flex. This type of vehicle is not my cup of tea but I hope it sells like hotcakes so Lincoln can regain some of the prestige and importance that it has lost for the past few years.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    at least it looks nothing like a Flex.

    That should make gregg_vw happy........

    Remember this is a concept, not a pre-production vehicle.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Oooh boy, that's a wierd one, eh? First off, that cow-catcher grille is just a bit too much for me. THe toned-down version on the mks is more realistic. This is just a concept after all. Which begs the question - what have they actually been working on all this time? I mean the Flex is about to be released and since day one the rumor has been that Lincoln will get one, yet here they are showing a concept? That the real mkt will look much like this inside or out is doubtful. It's just a concept. See "Continental" concept. See "Mark 9" concept.

    Last - who is the target market for this? The Hilton family? I mean, who's gonna buy an expensive as heck Flex and put the 2 kiddos in those back seats? I just dont see it. Further, this aint no 7 passenger as someone said. Unless the 3 folks in the back are headless.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    So are you suggesting that rather than issue a production vehicle similar to this concept (like the MKS is similar to the MKS concept), that they might instead pull a "no one will notice that the MKX is not the Aviator concept so why bother with all the differentiation"?

    Kidding aside, I think Ford has learned its lesson on cookie cutter divisional design, even if you personally don't see what all the fuss it about.

    Yes, they will probably dumb down the design somewhat for production, but I think we are essentially looking at the Lincoln Flex. And if we are not, then fools are calling the shots on that program.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    To each his or her own. BMW has just such a design in the wings. And it's no weirder (once they tone down the grill, add a third position to the second seat, and other such modifications for production) than things like the Infiniti FX, which has sold rather well for a fastback SUV. Some people really go for whatever stands out the most, utility be damned. Witness the emergence of "four door coupes."

    BTW, I love the cow catcher grill, but Ford is too timid to take such a radical move. The MKS production version is namby pamby by comparison, but the plainer look will likely not hurt sales, and will help with folks like yourself who can't stand the in-yer-face cowcatcher look. Big grills are in now, and bigger ones are coming. Those who don't like that need only wait a few years, as fashions always change. No sense to any of it.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    So are you suggesting that rather than issue a production vehicle similar to this concept (like the MKS is similar to the MKS concept), that they might instead pull a "no one will notice that the MKX is not the Aviator concept so why bother with all the differentiation"?

    Not at all. I think the exterior will be spot on except maybe the bumpers. I was referring mostly to the interior.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    HERE is a video of the live reveal of the MKT. Horbury confirms the production version will seat up to 7. Not sure what that means for the rear glass.
  • tourguidetourguide Posts: 190
    It's just a concept everyone. Nothing to get too excited about. In anything close to the current form it will start as a base model clearing 60 big ones and go up from there.

    Cripes, the inflation of prices is driving me nuts.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Ok. Never mind then. :D

    For everyone else here who thinks that "concept" means nothing in terms of future product, please remember that the MKS concept was "just a concept" too.

    I think (hope) Lincoln is now past issuing totally dead end concepts like the Continental and Mark 9. Not only does it waste engineering resources and time, but it p*sses off the public as well.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    I firmly believe those days of concept cars for show only are dead and gone with Mulally in charge. But when they go out of their way to make an exotic interior just for show purposes you can bet the production version will be different.

    There will be a MKT, it will get a 3.5 or 3.7 Ecoboost engine option and the exterior will look very close to the concept. But the interior will have a 3rd row (at least an an option) and will look more like the MKS (IMO).
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    OK, not to argue, but ...

    If the real mkt is a 7 passenger, then it cannot look like this concept unless it is stretched a couple of feet. There's just no room for 3 passengers back there.

    Boy that ecoBoost must be a heckuva technology. Horbury says it makes 340hp on regular gas and 415hp using premium unleaded? Geez, I'll gladly pay the extra 30cents a gallon for an extra 75 hp!!

    Ah, and here's the definitive words from Mr Horbury:

    "While the concept was built off the Ford Flex platform, Horbury made it clear the MKT is a concept, but admitted, there wouldn’t have to be too many changes made to make the car part of the Lincoln lineup.

    “This is not a flight of fancy,” Horbury said. “And it’s not an attempt to replace the Navigator. The utility of adding a third row of seats is a possibility. But this shows Lincoln is back as American luxury.”

    So my question at this point is - just what IS the Lincoln Flex? Is it some b_st_rdization of this concept? Or is it more like the half Flex-half Freestyle picture we've seen at Car and Driver?

    Finally, again, this thing is a CONCEPT. There will be some changes to get it to production. There'll be a 'normal' type back seat and console, the grille will be toned down, the interior will be from the mkx or s and there it'll be. At least that's my opinion. A 7 passenger version? Not without a whole LOT of changes.

    This reminds me of a few years ago when the Continental concept was shown. Shortly thereafter came the Navicross concept and then the Mark 9 and it seems there was one more. Anyway, the contcon and navicross looked very similar to each other in the way mkr and mkt look alike. NONE of the aforementioned 4 concepts were ever heard from again. Will the r and t suffer the same fate? And where is the Mercury version - of any of these cars? ;)

    Finally, look around for the concept images of the mks. You'll see a lot of differences from the real thing, especially on the inside.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Where did you get the 415 hp on premium unleaded? It's 415 running E85 (and tuned especially for E85). It's the same engine that was in the MKR concept last year and the same as the MKS is getting next year but without the E85 capability which puts it back down to 340-350 hp.

    Fields, Kuzack, Horbury and Mulally have ALL said that Ford won't be building concepts that never make it to production anymore. Mulally was ticked off that the MKR and Interceptor concepts weren't production viable because the RWD platform didn't exist.

    I'm not sure how they'll get a 3rd row in there with the rear hatch design, but they will. Remember this is based on the Flex platform so the room is there. Maybe it's a lot bigger in person. We also heard something from Fields about French Doors and I didn't see anything like that. Maybe that's only for the production version. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

    As for the MKS concept vs. production - get your vision checked. Except for the MKR style grille which was added at the last minute (the MKR didn't exist with the MKS concept was designed) it's a dead ringer, or as close as a concept can get to reality.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I think heyjoe is right about the various changes that will happen before production, except maybe for a lengthening. The MKT is a;already longer than a Navigator, A bit of reshaping the rear roofline would allow both a third seat (more akin to the Audi Q7 than the Flex in roominess), and a fastback roofline.

    Second row seating would have gobs of legroom regardless. The wheelbase is 120" which is longer even than the Flex and almost a foot more than the Taurus. That allows more flexible configuring of space within a non-boxy body style.

    Again, I think if you want maximum space and funky style, the Flex will be the one. If you want high style and luxury and presence and exclusivity with a bit less hauling capacity for seven passengers, the MKT would work well.

    Only question is how long it will take Ford to issue it. The Flex and MKS won't be here until summer at the earliest. The 2009 F150 has now been delayed until fall (they really need it right now). The Verve is not slated before 2010. Ford is still the slowest to bring new models to market. And when are they scheduled to redesign the Taurus? No one even says anything about that, and here is a great bread and butter car that will never sell until they fully restyle its terminal dowdiness. Though it won, the EcoBoost Taurus mule looked silly drag racing,,,sort of like great grandma in a sprint.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Mulally has seen the 2010 (model year) Taurus and said it was so much better than the current one that it made his eyes water. So I expect it late next year. That makes the current Taurus a 3 yr refresh and a 5 yr replacement. Ford is trying to push new products faster but they have to be short on resources. Not to mention the bungling of product development prior to Fields and Mulally. If Bill Ford had not cancelled the 6.2 Boss engine program it would be available in the 09 F150.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Thanks. That is certainly good news!
  • What about Fusion/Milan replacement? After new Malibu Fusion/Milan look aged cheap. You can see how much better is built quality, interior design and ergonomics in Malibu compared with Fusion/Milan. Most people are interested in Fusion/Milan rather than Taurus/Sable.

    BTW what is the future or Mercury? If Lincoln goes upscale it becomes more exclusive. If I cannot afford Lincoln - what I supposed to buy? Or Ford is moving upscale to be more elegant, restrained design (hate that three-bar chrome grill) for grown up men to replace Mercury? Because if Ford remains blue collar, boy racer brand I am not going to buy it.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Conflicting info on new Fusion. Definitely a new hybrid later this year - the rest is speculation as to whether the rest of the new engines and styling changes are coming end of this year or early next year. If they're coming this year we'll see something at either the Chicago or NY auto shows over the next 4 months.

    I'm not sure Ford really knows what to do with Mercury. I personally don't think it will be killed but Lincoln and Ford are getting all the attention right now.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    It looks as if Ford plans to make all Fords look more upscale going forward: better interiors and less dull styling. Ford and LM are combining dealerships, so if Mercury goes away, nothing really goes away, as Mercury offers nothing different from the comparable Ford.

    It really is too bad though. Mercury had a rich heritage and was once a contender. Just some examples of multibrand use: GM has plans to keep Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Saturn and GMC; Chrysler has three brands; VW sells VW, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti here (with several other brands overseas); and Toyota has grown to include a third division here. Mercedes now sells three brands here with the addition of Smart, and even BMW saw fit the add a second brand here (Mini).

    As Allen says, Mercury could be a store for niche vehicles. Or it could go back to competing with near luxury cars, by providing good value with a unique sense of style.It could be Ford's foremost eco-brand. There are lots ot directions they could take it, besides the 100% badge engineering it is now, or killing it. But as we all know, Ford is strapped, concentrating on Lincoln (but still needs to provide even more energy and focus to that moribund brand). The Flex should be in dealerships now, and the MKT should be ready in the fall. However, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it is another 18 months before we see anything like the MKT on sale.

    Under the circumstances no one within the place appears to have any clue how to advocate for the Mercury brand. It is the lost child in this company created catastrophe. In retrospect, it is hard to believe how such a large and well-established company as Ford put Bill Ford at the head. History will not be kind.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    I think they're going to kill Mercury, probably in 2010. There's no product, nothing in the pipe. Lincoln already sells more vehicles than Mercury.

    mkt - I doubt we'll see that before 2011 or 12, at the rate they do things. I mean, the 500/montego been out since, what, 2005? And the first Lincoln version will be a 2009? Well, they fired or gave packages to a whole lot of workers, no wonder it takes them forever to get anything done.

    Another question: looks like the new way Ford is going to market all their vehicles is by pushing the 'Sync" feature. Is there *anyone* out there who will buy a FLM over a competitor because you can say "Play Michael Bolton" and it will? I know I remain totally unimpressed. I am getting really sick and tired of all the sync commercials. Didnt take em long to come out with the dumbed-down version where poeple walk into doors because the doors dont open when u tell em to. Gee, do the doors on the Fusion open if you ask em to? That would be impressive.

    And just to share the wealth, I am also getting really SICK and tired of GM pushing cars that you can't buy for several years at least (Chevy Volt). GM has some good product NOW, why push vaporware? And enough with E85 already. Corn is for eatin.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    The MKT will be out by next summer or fall at the latest. Unlike the 500/Taurus, the Lincoln version was planned from the start of the Flex project.

    Will people buy a Ford to get Sync? OF COURSE! I think you underestimate the number of cell phone/mp3 player users out there. It won't cause a die-hard Honda fan to buy a Fusion but but it will definitely close the deal on customers who would otherwise be on the fence. And it will cause current owners to upgrade sooner than they normally would. What's not to like about being able to use your phone without taking it out of your pocket? Forget the voice control - just being able to plug in your IPOD directly without going through a FM transmitter or audio jack is a big advantage over the competition.

    I can't believe that Ford does something truly innovative for a change and you're poo-pooing it like crazy. Even if you don't want it you should be able to appreciate it.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Yeah, Joe, Ford does something innovative for a change and you gotta play the curmudgeon regardless.

    By this time next year, when you are driving a SYNC-equipped MKT, I won't laugh. Promise.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    Not to pile on my friend jeyhoe but I love the Sync commercials and they seem to be working. Vitually every friend or family member to whom we have shown my wife's Taurus has said, "Does it have that great system where you can tell it to call home or what song to play? That is so cool!"

    Jeyhoe is getting an MKS with SYNC - not an MKT. I am going to work him over until he cracks!
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490

    Well, bruce, if you can hit me with a briefcase full of money, your plan might work!

    OK, so the boy racers and hip-hop crowd will love sync. Didnt know there were so many of those types here! ;)

    Phone thing is cool, but u dont need sync for most of that functionality.

    I'd really love to know how many people want to be able to talk to the radio in their car. Personally, I'D RATHER HAVE A RELIABLE GOOD LOOKING WORLD CLASS RWD VEHICLE. But I guess that's just me. When Ford does THAT (again - referring to LS) CALL ME.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    No problem. I will sell you a RELIABLE GOOD LOOKING WORLD CLASS RWD VEHICLE - my LS. You can talk to the radio until the cows come home and it will ignore you just like a wife.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    If you think only boy racers and the hip hop crowd uses bluetooth cell phones and Ipods you are sadly mistaken. There are soccer moms and business men and women drooling all over Sync.

    Yes, you can get hands free bluetooth built into the car, but you won't get voice command and it won't read text messages to you. You can also get an Ipod interface but again it won't provide voice control. Just being able to play mp3s from a thumb drive is pretty amazing.

    Welcome to the 21st century!
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Too late, already have one.

    Hope my point wasnt lost though that I cant buy a NEW one, not from Ford anyway.

    Well, that's not quite correct. I COULD buy a JAG XF, which is the replacement for the S-Type. See Jaguar (Ford) took the S-Type and modernized it into a fantastic vehicle. Lincoln (Ford) OTOH threw in the towel on the XFs predecessor, the LS and ... ah what's the use? It'll soon be the TATA XF anyway.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    "Welcome to the 21st century"

    Thanks! Many times I didnt think I'd make it.

    But me? I dont have no stinkin IPOD. I dont have no stinkin MP-3. My 8 year old has one. Is that Ford's target market? Also my 20 year old has one. She cant afford a new car either. And lets not forget this innovative technology costs $795 on the Edge (you MUST also buy the convenience package - last time I checked anyway.) Thats a dam sight more money than bluetooth. And some of that money goes to Bill Gates, a modern-day robber-baron.

    Finally I'll tell you something for certain - SYNC wont sell any Lincolns. The people I see driving Lincolns most certainly do NOT have IPODs or MP-3 players. Victrolas maybe. I saw a beautiful silver LS yesterday. 2002 with the ground-effects package. Nice. As I pulled alongside, I prepared to wave to a fellow traveler. But she didnt look. Probably arthritis kept her head from turning to the left. Her hair was a nice shade of blue though. Went well with the silver paint.

    Dont take this personal anyone, but I think that anyone who buys a Ford, Mercury or Lincoln over something else because of sync is intellectually challenged.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Maybe you're just technologically challenged.........
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    Finally I'll tell you something for certain - SYNC wont sell any Lincolns. The people I see driving Lincolns most certainly do NOT have IPODs or MP-3 players. Victrolas maybe. I saw a beautiful silver LS yesterday. 2002 with the ground-effects package. Nice. As I pulled alongside, I prepared to wave to a fellow traveler. But she didnt look. Probably arthritis kept her head from turning to the left. Her hair was a nice shade of blue though. Went well with the silver paint.

    Some of my co-workers are wondering why I am sitting in my office chuckling. Thanks for the entertaining post! I am sure that blue haired lady uses the RWD balance, Formula 1 inspired suspension, and select-shift transmission to their fullest potential.
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