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Lincoln MKT



  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    Motor Trend is wrong. The 2010 Fusion and Milan will be on an updated CD3 platform with some needed changes to make it more competitive. A more powerful 4 cyl engine and stability control along with refreshed sheetmetal, upgraded interior, and better NVH control will make the Fusion and Milan more competitive. The 2009 Mazda 6 will be even better, IMO, and it will be here this fall.

    The 2010 MKZ will hopefully reach a bit higher than the current model. It needs the 3.7 engine, a new interior with rear HVAC vents, manumatic, power tilt/telescope wheel, the split grille, and hood struts. I don't know if it will get all that but it needs it. The MKS better get the Ecoboost SOON.

    Jeyhoe, you came up with a great name for the Escape based Lincoln - MKPOS! Good job! I see why Ford likes for you to attend focus groups!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    As to engines, they're saying the much anticipated ecoboost engine will get 2! that's TWO WHOLE mpg more than the engine it replaces.

    They're talking about using the EB 3.5L to replace 4.6 and 5.4 V8s, or for EB 2.5L to replace the 3.5L/3.7L V6s. Same power, 2 mpg improvement. Considering automakers go out of their way to gain just a tenth of one mpg - 2 is huge.

    The rest of the article, and most of your rant, is simply wrong.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I like your style, jeyhoe, but can't agree on the MKT. It is innovative. The style takes the risk of alienating some people (like you), which is good and very much needed...because to some others it will stand out...shine. To each his own. For you of course it leaves slim Lincoln pickings, but it will sell well regardless. It is far prettier than the Infiniti FX, and that thing does darn well. And it doesn't look a thing like the Flex.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    As Mark Fields said last week on Autoline - some people hate it but others love it. And the key is that the people that love it - REALLY love it. To the point that it becomes a "gotta have it" vehicle.

    If you consider that 16M vehicles will be sold this year and 100K is a good sales target - that means you only have to convince 6.25 people out of every 1000 buyers. And it probably means you can sell at a premium instead of bargain basement.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Well, 100,000 is a whole lot of big fat gas-hog RWD bustle-back people movers, I'll tell ya that. In, what, 2012? When the price of gas is likely to be $10 gallon? And cafe kicks in the following year at 31.5 is that correct? What was the LSes' best year? 70K or so? My bet is they wont sell more than 30,000 of the thing the first year, IF they even build it.

    I know they know lots more about it than me, even though they cant agree on who is designing the platform for the thing (and THAT is public knowledge. There are stories to that effect out there)

    And REALLY glad they can screw the customer over big time on this, selling for a premium price, as they did with the Navigator. Which they lowered the price on by 5 or 6 thousand a few years after I bought mine. I was ruminating the other day about what I might replace it with. Having done more research now on selling it than just checking the KBB price, I realize I wont be able to afford to sell it. Cant afford to drive it. No one to blame but myself and the environmentalists and democrats but I digress again. I'm now hoping now they'll pay ME to take it off the road to save the planet. That oughtta work, eh?

    I know you said most of my rant was BS, but gave no specifics. Since I can verify what I said about the GRWD, what else was wrong? You dont really believe they're going to keep Mercury, do you?

    And I loved bruce's name for the Lincoln Escape - the MKPOS !!! HAHAHA GREAT one bruce.

    I thought my "Locus" was pretty good too, eh? Cant wait to see the lincolnized version of THAT.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    I just used 100,000 as a round number - I don't think Ford has released its sales target yet. 40,000 wouldn't surprise me - with a shared platform and normal pricing they can make money at that volume. And that means they only need to convince 2 or 3 people per 1000 buyers.

    People aren't going to switch from V8 Navigators and Expeditions to tiny cars. A unibody crossover with V6 power should provide a good migration path. I don't see the other luxury players abandoning their mid to large sized crossovers.

    The BS I was referring to was the MT information. The MKT will be built on the Flex platform - there's no question about that or who will be designing and building it - at least not that I've heard. I think you're confusing this with the GRWD platform. I highly doubt there is really any confusion or debate as to whether the Aussies or US would take the lead - it sounds like it's going to Dearborn and the Aussies are whining about it.

    And you should know by now that a small Lincoln crossover would NOT be a rebadged Escape or even a European Kuga. It would just use the same platform. The MKS and MKT should be proof that Lincoln is no longer in the rebadge business.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    OK, so 100,000 is a made up number. So is 40,000 actually. I'll still bet my 30,000 is closest.

    I must apologize because I was thinking the T is the RWD car. Forgot it's a flex. Must admit - good job of badge engineering - fooled me! One is square ugly, other curvy-ugly though so there's still a family resemblence. And we havent seen the interior yet - dont even begin to tell me it will resemble the concept.

    Sorry, Bruce, MT says ALL NEW Fusion in 2010 and will be on 3 year-old Mondeo platform. Since Allen has not refuted that, it sounds like truth to me. In fact, they also rumor that the next taurus will be on that and that CD3 will probably go away since only the Taurus X and mks will be on it. From which I infer that the mks will probably be another 3 year and out model cause the taurus x has no reason to live with the flex and edge around. And could probably further infer that Volvo will be going on the block soon.

    As for badge engineering, using 2 not-yet-existing cars as 'proof' while the only 2 that exist (Z and X) are corrolaries to your theorem, is a bit absurd. As for the escape, good luck trying to make that a lincoln, badge engineered or not. MT states unequivocally that Lincoln escape is in development for 2010 and Mariner is going away. And hey- since they think they can tack on $10000 to the price of the escape if it has the Lincoln name on it it's a no-brainer for them. It'll be another crappy Lincoln, but what's one more? Can u imagine cross shopping the escape with the FX-35 or the LX-350? HAHAHAHAHA

    And one more time - Is Mulally lying about Mercury not going away? You know he is. I've bought my last Ford product, tell u that.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Sorry, Bruce, MT says ALL NEW Fusion in 2010 and will be on 3 year-old Mondeo platform. Since Allen has not refuted that, it sounds like truth to me.

    But I did refute it by agreeing with Bruce! The 2010 Fusion will roll off the lines in December and be on sale in January. It's still using the CD3 platform (maybe with a few small modifications) and will have a new nose, new upgraded interior, new 2.5L I4, 240 hp 3.0L (with better FE than the old 221 hp 3.0L) and a 2.5L I4 Hybrid. There is supposed to be at least a limited sport version with the 3.5L V6 but that's not confirmed.

    CD3 and EUCD will merge in the next generation CD platform in another 2-3 years.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    As for badge engineering, using 2 not-yet-existing cars as 'proof' while the only 2 that exist (Z and X) are corrolaries to your theorem, is a bit absurd.

    Oh c'mon, George. It's called change. The OLD platforms shared a lot including body panels, interiors and even drivetrains. The NEW platforms don't share any body panels, drivetrains or interiors. Nobody would look at the MKS and Taurus and think they're even related. I don't know what other proof you could want.

    And one more time - Is Mulally lying about Mercury not going away? You know he is.

    No, I don't know that it is and neither do you. I don't think Ford has decided what to do with Mercury yet. What they've done is decide to put all of their resources into Ford and Lincoln right now. There will be a 2010 Milan because it was already "in the can".

    Mercury will not be rebadged Fords going forward - that part seems clear. It MIGHT be killed - or it might be used for smaller volume niche and unique vehicles. Ford doesn't have to decide right now. There aren't any stand alone Mercury dealers.

    Of course the single biggest reason to keep Mercury around is Jill Wagner. Maybe someone can convince her to start selling those rebadged ugly Lincolns that nobody wants to buy.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Sorry, missed it.

    MT also talks that Fusion might be next with ecoboost after mks.

    Nothing to say about Mercury though? ;)
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    Yep, what Allen just said.

    I will add two more things:

    The good looking Taurus that is scheduled for late 2009 introduction (2010 model year) will be on an upgraded version of the current platform - D3 -2, same as the MKS. After that, around 2012, it very well may merge to something else.

    I also subscibe to MT along with C & D and Autoweek. Often the folks at MT don't know their *sses from a hole in the ground. C & D is usually a lot more accurate.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    There is talk of the Fusion getting an Ecoboost engine - but it would be the 2.5L version putting out 260 hp, not the 340 HP 3.5L. V6 power with I4 Fuel Economy. However, that engine seems to be at least a year away, maybe more.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    MT wrong again then. They're saying it'll be the V6 in the Fusion Sport. BTW, similar Mazda engine was trashed in a comparo in C&D this month. Terrbli gas mileage. Is Ford going to build a better, more economical engine than their Japanese partners? That would be a first, eh?
  • ptg0ptg0 Posts: 4
    A wise man would reserve his opinion until he has the chance to see the "concept"
    in person. I shudder to imagine an Englishmans interpretation of what a "Lincoln" is supposed to be.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    The Ford EcoBoost is not the same as Mazda's 2.3L Turbo. They've been saying publicly 15%-20% better FE than a V6 or V8 of similar power. As conservative as they've been lately with HP ratings, etc. I don't think they'd be saying that in public if they weren't 99% sure they could deliver it. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Is there *anyone* out there who will buy a FLM over a competitor because you can say "Play Michael Bolton" and it will? I know I remain totally unimpressed. I am getting really sick and tired of all the sync commercials.

    Umm.....yes. Here's one. I've tried out the SYNC, and it's so far superior to anything GM has, especially their outdated and stale Blondestar product. The only car that matches everything Ford has with SYNC is Lexus, and of course, it's much more costly to drive Lexus than Ford. Yes, I'll be there to line up for SYNC in my next
    Ford truck or SUV. Maybe even in my next Luxury Car, if it's a Lincoln. I AM impressed, but......YMMV. ;)
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    The last thing I want to see when I look at my dashboard is the word "Microsoft".
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Guess I'd rather see that than "Check Engine."
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    or "Yugo."


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  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    You got me on Yugo! But I'll take CEL over Bill Gates any day. At least you can fix the cause of CEL. You'll NEVER get rid of that little thief BG.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Are we having sour grapes because someone has more money than God does??
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Sour grapes? Maybe. Or just experience and knowledge.

    I know this - God got his/her money the old fashioned way - He/She earned it.

    OTOH, Bill Gates is a lying, thieving monopolist who's never had an original thought that didn't revolve around obtaining by whatever means necessary someone else's intellectual capital.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Finally - something we agree on!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    OH Brother...... :sick:
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Hmm...I would hazard a guess that you don't like the guy. How do you feel about Warren Buffett? Oops...I guess I have to ask, how do you feel about Warren in an MKT? Giving practically his entire fortune to Bill Gates? :P
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Warren used to drive a Town Car - was auctioned away last year on Ebay. Now he drives a Cadillac. Not a fancy guy. Bill Gates reportedly drives a car like mine, Lexus LS430, but he may have updated since then......

    Both of them are liberals, both of them create a ton of jobs in this country and elsewhere, both of them are geniuses. I find it interesting WHAT they drive, but beyond that, they don't interest me much. I don't spend any emotion on either of them.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Bill Gates fills most of his jobs in this country with imported people. He's been doing that since the 80s. Long before anyone else.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Hmmm...sounds like a smart guy, even if you don't like his tactics.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    I have lots of issues with MS software and how it's designed and implemented (so does anyone else who's used Unix, Linux or a Mac) - it's a nightmare to fix when it doesn't work.

    But I have even more issues with their business practices. They used to require a pc seller to buy a windows license for every PC they sold, whether or not windows was actually installed or not, otherwise they would not allow the seller to install windows at all (or at a much higher price). Since 90%+ of pc buyers wanted windows this amounted to extortion and forced Linux and other non-MS operating system users to pay for windows even if they didn't use it.

    Now back to the MKT - I saw a spy shot of a test mule - looks like only minor differences from the concept (on the outside).
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Yes of course. Undermining American workers is always a smart idea, eh? What industry are YOU in?
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