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Lincoln MKT



  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    It was probably a loaner from the dealer who was servicing her Town Car...
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    "Maybe you're just technologically challenged........."

    Yeah, that's it.

    I would encourage folks to read our friend the autoextremist today. Reports on the Detroit show. He was real positive about Ford ... said it looks like they might actually have a future. He was less positive about the 'Mickey-T' calling it a "bustle-back monstrosity". Sounds about right, now that I saw the rear view in his article.

    OTOH, his biggest praise was for GM. The CTS-V, the CTS coupe, etc. Geez, when I think back to 2000 when the LS came out and GM had the Catera. What a shame 8 years later we have the Mickey-Z and town car.

    Also, compare the Cadillac Provoq concept to the monstrosity to see what coherent design focus vs a 'let's try this now' design attitude can get ya.

    Oh and as for the debate about Mercury, which our Alan and the real Ford Alan says is safe, Mercury apparently wasn't even present at the show. Nothing, not even a sign.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    The bustle back is for me one of the best parts of the MKT. It is provocative, and evocative as well of classic cars--without being retro (and it provides more storage without being a full boxy squared-off wagon design).

    It will get attention more in the way the the clumsy locomotive look of the current Rolls does, rather than the retarded design of the Aztec. Once again it is a good sign that Lincoln is creating things people hate or love, rather than careful pablum like the MKZ.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Hey, glad u like it. THat's what makes the world interesting.

    I think though that you might have something - bringing the Aztek into the discussion. THis Mickey-T thing will sell as well as the Aztek if it sees the light of day looking the way it does. But it won't. I dont think.

    U know, it still boggles my mind that the same company that produced a beautiful, tasteful almost universally acclaimed concept like the Continental would kill that and then create a panned combination steam locomotive+AMC Pacer+Ford Model A and decide to build THAT one.

    Personally, given the wherewithall to do it, I'd buy a RWD Continental concept in a heartbeat and be proud to drive it. OTOH this Mickey-Mouse Bustle-Back answer to a question NO ONE is asking should go straight to Mattel.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    Why do you assume that if YOU don't like it that nobody else will?

    This isn't just a luxury sedan - it's a luxury people mover whether it's classic seating for 7 or super luxury seating for 2 or 3.

    The RWD vehicles are coming, but up until a few months ago there was no platform in the plans for them to be built on. The Continental concept was unfortunately just a concept - not production capable.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I would have bought the Continental in a heartbeat as well. Tasteful, not derivative of other makes, and definitely not vanilla either. That combo is very hard to do.

    I am not in the market for a CUV like the MKT. However, I do think it is distinctive in a Rolls sort of way: creative, polarizing and not derivative of anything else. The very odd Infiniti RX has sold well, because it dared to be daring, almost to the point of cartoonish, without the total lack of grace in the were the lines of the Aztec.

    The MKT has the same sort of daring as the RX: it will turn some people off (some very strongly, like you), but others will be very drawn to its wow factor. No one thought the Aztec was anything more than homely or clumsy. It is like the difference between the Honda Element (or Scion Xb) and the Aztec. Some people equated them all as awful, but of those who did not, they still found the jumble of different and noncontiguous neighborhoods on the surface of the Aztec off-putting.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    I meant REAR seating for 2 or 3. That would be 4-5 total as opposed to 6 or 7 for the regular version.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    Oh and as for the debate about Mercury, which our Alan and the real Ford Alan says is safe, Mercury apparently wasn't even present at the show. Nothing, not even a sign.

    Ford should sell Volvo, continue to rebuild Lincoln's image and move it slightly upmarket, and position Mercury as the entry level Luxury brand. Mercury does not need any trucks. Just focus on an upscale mid-size sedan, an upscale full-size sedan, and a sporty luxury coupe.

    The upscale mid-size sedan should use the Mazda/Fusion/Milan platform but have amenities more like the current MKZ. The full-size sedan should use the upcoming RWD platform. Continue the old Grand Marquis until the new RWD platform is ready. The sporty luxury coupe should be based on the Mustang but be much more refined and luxurious. They don't need the Sable or Mariner at all.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Lots of good ideas for Mercury, but no one is listening right now. If Oldsmobile can so easily go away, Mercury is also expendable. Once Ford gets out from under a bit, I think the Mercury planning will be more about how to kill it without incurring huge expense and lawsuits. There's just no creative thinking at all being spared for the sign of the cat.

    It's a legacy from family members like Elena and Bill (I hope there is no inbreeding going on). Bill Ford is a nice enough dude, he also proved quite capable of running a family business into the ground. The idea that old family feuds could affect objective decision-making about a venerable marque like Lincoln is beyond ludicrous. They should have all been spanked. Oh, I guess they were, when you look at all the Ford wealth that went poof with the well-deserved stock plunge.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    Mercury simply isn't a priority right now - too many things to fix at Ford and Lincoln and only so much time and money to do it with.

    I honestly don't think they've made a decision either way, and probably won't for another couple of years.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    The decision will be made for them if they continue to neglect the brand.
  • But first, someone made some crack about Lincoln drivers, iPods, and SYNC. Well, I drive a Lincoln. I also carry an MP3 and a cell phone. The absence of SYNC in a Lincoln would kill the sale for me in this day and age. ;)

    As for the MKT, the bustle back is kind of interesting and daring, as is the grille. The front end is no more cow catcher than Caddy's CTS. I hope Lincoln doesn't dumb down the exterior too much. No doubt they'll be criticized for taking a chance with controversial styling, but they'd likely be criticized for taking the safe route, too, so go ahead, take that chance!

    What I wonder is, does Lincoln really need both the MKT and the MKX? What are their target markets for these? I suppose the MKT might offer the third row the MKX lacks, and the MKX might be of a more compact size than the MKT. It'll be interesting to compare the two and see what shakes out.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    The MKT is a lot bigger than the MKX and it appears they're going for 2 markets: the traditional 6/7 passenger luxury crossover and a luxury 4/5 seater possibly for use as a livery vehicle. In some respects that makes more sense to have the extra cargo space for luggage as opposed to a large sedan with only a trunk.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I was already sure that Lincoln would not have the MKT ready this summer as some have suggested. Now, reports say spring of 2009. That likely means June, as June is the actual sell date for the MKS, which was projected for spring 2008.

    In any event, I see no evidence yet that Lincoln has sped up the release of new models. A tepid re-do of the MKZ and some tweaks to the Edge, er, I mean MKX is not going to cut it in this market (Lincoln sales were down nearly 15% last month). Right now, Lincoln needs something more than one new model every year or so. It needs a model or two that no one can characterize as duller than day old [non-permissible content removed] water.

    Knowing all along that Lincoln was getting a model based on the Flex apparently did little to overcome the corporate inertia. By delaying it until 2009, I hope they are able to offer it with some innovation in the drivetrain. The way things are going, gas could be $5 a gallon by then. Lincoln has to start leapfrogging the competition at some point soon, or it won't be just curtains for Mercury.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    Ford said all along that the Lincoln version of the Flex would be about a year after the Flex. Or at least that's what I remember.

    I agree that Lincoln needs to move faster, but to be fair I don't think Lincoln got the green light for more products and more investment until sometime last year after Mulally took over. So I don't expect anything earth shattering from Lincoln for another 2 years.

    The MKZ probably won't get all new sheetmetal until the next gen platform arrives combining the CD3 and EUCD platforms. MKX should also be at least 2 years away from unique sheetmetal. Not sure if the Navigator should even be a priority with the price of gas.
  • dds010dds010 Posts: 33
    I totally agree with you, everything that Lincoln plans on doing is always produced too late. The MKS was unveiled way back in November and it still hasn't came out yet the little buzz it gained will be gone by the time it comes out, the MKT is more than likely 2 years away ( lets see if the launch it initially with the correct engine), and can ford please introduce the 6.2 in the Navigator by years end it seems like its takes ford 4 years to make a decision and come through with it and by that time the competition has something more ahead of their offerings still
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Caught you, Allen. There's an entry from you on this MKT thread (#22) where you suggested the MKT would be out this year (designed along with the Flex, due at about the same time or a bit later). So what's the deal now with "Ford said all along..."?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    Caught you, Allen. There's an entry from you on this MKT thread (#22) where you suggested the MKT would be out this year (designed along with the Flex, due at about the same time or a bit later). So what's the deal now with "Ford said all along..."?

    Not so fast, Gregg. What I said back in January was that the MKT would be out NEXT summer or fall, as opposed to THIS COMING summer or fall. All of the info I had ever heard was that the Flex would be out summer 2008 with the Lincoln version about a year behind.

    I was replying to Joe's comparison to the MKS which comes out 3 (or is it 4) years after the 500 debuted on the same platform.

    I'll be more clear next time, though.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Ok. I get what you meant. To me, next summer means the next summer...the next one, the one coming up. "This summer" means to me, the one we are in. But definitions are variable and so you are off the hook! Still doesn't explain why they needed another year, even though Lincoln was slated to get a Flex job all along. Nothing to be done about it though. This is how Ford operates, and is one of the reasons they continue to lose market share.

    I do think the MKT will get a lot more press and attention than the MKX ever did, because it is much more creative and unique. However, with all the manufacturers out there churning out new models like buckshot, some of its thunder will likely be stolen by summer of 2009. Here's hoping it works out. A three row CUV with suggestions of a touring sedan in its lines could really take off.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    Still doesn't explain why they needed another year, even though Lincoln was slated to get a Flex job all along.

    I think they're just out of resources and can't do everything at once, even if they wanted to, at least not in North America. Remember they're launching one significantly updated vehicle (F150) plus 2 all new vehicles this year plus a mid cycle refresh for the CD3s. That's a lot, even with a full staff.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    "That's a lot, even with a full staff"

    Yeah, and they just announced today they'll be doing ANOTHER layoff. So better get them Lincolns out NOW, else never may come early.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Yep, check BON today and find the news that Ford has aofficially approved the MK T for production. I hope this pleases many folks who've been chomping at the bit for a FWD Lincoln station wagon. Sadly, (he says sarcastically) the news also says that the distinctive 'bustle-back' wont make it to production.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    OK, then, I now officially hate the MKT idea too. Like Ford usually does, they will dumb it down to where it is just a Flex with cautious Lincoln styling. Yes, that will really stand out in the marketplace.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    the news also says that the distinctive 'bustle-back' wont make it to production

    Unless you're talking about a different article from the one I saw at - it doesn't say that at all. It just says that the production version will offer seating for 7 and I think that's still possible even with the 'bustle-back' design. It's also possible they'll offer 2 versions - one with a 3rd row and one without.

    I'm also not saying that it won't change - it might and if it does then your criticism is spot on. But given Mulally's position on past concepts I'd be very surprised if the basic design gets altered for production.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    I read all the posts on BON and that's probably where I read the bustle-back was gone. SOme on there are insiders. We'll see.
    Yeah, there's talk of a 2 row and a 3 row version. Myself I doubt that. Would cost them too much to build 2 versions. When's the last time Ford built 2 versions of anything, save Mustang?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Not two versions. Option for two rows or three rows, like with the Explorer, etc.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    When's the last time Ford built 2 versions of anything

    Taurus/Taurus X?

    I read those forums and I don't remember anything but speculation, but I could be wrong. I'm not a big fan of that look but it is distinctive.

    I'd like to think there is enough room (the concept is longer than the Flex) for a 3rd row without changing the rear too much. Then I'd like to see a 3 row option and a 2 row option with captain's chairs and extra leg room. That would make a nice livery vehicle since most only carry one or two passengers plus you have tons of luggage space - much better than a TC or CV.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Well, the talk I heard was a fancy 2 row version with seat tracks for the 2nd row and reclining seats etc. That would require a lot more engineering than just a 3rd row option.

    allen: Taurus/Taurus X ?? HAHA What was that 60's song? "The Name Game"
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    The concept IS a 2 seater with reclining seats and there is a possibility they'll offer that configuration as a production luxury livery vehicle. It would certainly be more comfortable and hold more cargo and luggage than a comparable Town Car or other limo. The question is whether the 7 passenger version will keep the same rear design as the 4 passenger.

    And if Ford can do 3 versions of a vehicle (Taurus/Sable/Taurus X) on one platform there's no reason they can't do 3 with the Flex platform (Flex, MKT 4 and MKT 7).
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Latest Motor Trend has a profile pic of this thing. I had forgotten what a truly UGLY MUTHA it is. The bustle back thing is even worse than some of the horrible Cadillac Sevilles from the 80s.

    In the accompanying article, we learn that the Fusion is moving to the Mondeo chassis in 2009 or 10. Wow, the great Mazda 6 chassis didnt last long eh? Doesnt seem to me to be very economical to be changing the whole car from tires up after just a few years. I'm sure they know what they're doing though, eh? Oh, except Dearborn is now in a feud with Ford Australia who both claim to be designing the new GRWD platform.

    So back to the Fusion and we learn that there almost certainly wont be a new Milan. Oh and the Mariner is being dropped to be replaced, just EXACTLY as I predicted, by a Lincoln version of the Ford Escape. Boy, I'll bet that'll be a fine luxury effort. Can u believe Ford is going to rebadge THAT POS as a Lincoln? What's next? A Locus? So that will leave Mercury with ... the Sable and ... Marquis? Ha. So, this info pretty much confirms that Mulally is FOS when he says Mercury is safe. Mercury will be gone by 2010, just as, again, I predicted.

    Thinking about what Lincoln will have though - a MKZ, not exactly a luxury car, a rebadged Escape HAHAHAHA, a rebadged Edge, the mks FINALLY? with a cheapo interior and maybe the Navigator by Gillette or will they finally retire that? It seems to me that it's not Mercury that's going away, but Lincoln is being morphed into an expensive Mercury.

    Oh and they're gonna put bigger wheels on the Edge Sport. Now isnt that special. No engine or anything. Just wheels and a trim name. As to engines, they're saying the much anticipated ecoboost engine will get 2! that's TWO WHOLE mpg more than the engine it replaces. Wow. And how much more will they cost? And how much less reliable will they be? Bye bye (Ford). :confuse:
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