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Can VW Overtake Toyota and GM To Become #1?



  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Beer and Krystal hamburgers anyone? (they'll bring the beer).

    VW chooses Chattanooga for new factory (Inside Line)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    VW has moved into a solid 3rd place worldwide. Is GM next to fall behind VW?
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,333
    If VW could bring themselves to market their diesels in good numbers and put some service in their customer service they could revive their US business. If they could pull that off watch out.

    It kills me with VW. They always have nicer looking product than pretty much anyone they compete with but they have spotty reliability and expensive repairs.
    2013 Mazda 5 Grand Touring, 2010 Toyota Prius IV. 2007 Toyota Camry XLE, 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999 Mazda Miata
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    I'm wondering if the US market is all that big of a prize anymore. It was pointed out that the shortage of Prius could be they make more selling them in other markets. The dollar has made cars not built in NA a loss leader. Until VW builds their new plant in TN I am not sure we will see a lot of the diesels here. I think their diesel is the key to future sales.

    I have dealt with two VW dealers. One in Portland where I bought my 2005 Passat and Drew VW here in San Diego. When my gas cover was broken by a gas station attendant in Oregon, I brought it to Drew VW in CA for replacement. They replaced it under warranty and gave me a rental car overnight as they had to paint the cover to match the car. I thought that was great service from a dealer that had not sold the car. I did the only service for the time I owned the car at Drew. It was a lot cheaper than service on my Sequoia at the Toyota dealer. And Toyota used very cheap 30 W dino oil. I was not impressed with the Toyota service. They politely told me what they could not do for me.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Hw long is it before VW becomes merely a subsidiary of Porsche?

    We may need to change the title to "Can Porsche overtake Toyota and GM..."

    What a hoot if Porsche were the #1 automaker in the world...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,333
    If VW becomes a subsidiary of Porsche and the cars reflect that I am so there!
    2013 Mazda 5 Grand Touring, 2010 Toyota Prius IV. 2007 Toyota Camry XLE, 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999 Mazda Miata
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    It is only fitting. Dr Porsche designed the first Volkswagen for the German Government in the early 1930s. They already share technology if I remember correctly.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Not much. They do share the Cayenne/Touareg model, but for instance when Porsche needed a new automated manual transmission, did it adopt the much-praised DSG from VW? No, it developed the PDK completely independently.

    It is just that Porsche has more money these days than it knows what to do with, and so it has been buying its way into a large stake in VW. If it can get its hands on more, last I heard, it could get a controlling share. And that may be old news, I haven't been keeping up with it that closely.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    If VW can maintain those kind of numbers they will sell close to 6.5 million vehicles world wide. How many did GM and Toyota sell first 7 months of this year?

    Volkswagen posts record sales through July 2008 thanks to expanding regions

    Volkswagen is breaking its own sales records during the first half of 2008 and has posted a sales volume of 3.79 million vehicles worldwide from January to July. Last month, Europe's largest automaker moved 521,500 global units, a significant achievement given the struggling automotive market. During the first seven months of the year, 2.18 million cars were sold to European buyers, with 624,000 going to Germany alone. The only surprising drop in sales (down 4.5%) came from the rest of Western Europe that took delivery of 1.22 million cars during the same seven-month time span.

    Much of VW's growth can be attributed to its appeal in the BRIC regions (Brazil, Russia, India, China) and areas of Eastern Europe. China is a close second behind VW's usual best-selling market, Germany, and is expected to surpass it by the end of the year.

    "These record deliveries and growing market shares have been made possible by our growth strategy, particularly in the BRIC markets, and our model diversity, even though the general situation on global automotive markets continues to deteriorate," said Detlef Wittig, executive vice president Group Sales and Marketing for Volkswagen.

    Here are the sales figures straight from the horse's mouth. All numbers cover the first seven months of 2008 and each percentage is compared to last year's sales amount for the same period.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    Profit for the Volkswagen Group rose 28.5 percent to 3.7 billion euros (about $5.6 billion, depending on the exchange rate) for the first nine months of 2008, bucking the downward trend for most automakers, and in sharp contrast to the troubles of the Detroit 3.

    VW said it continues to expect that its sales, revenue and operating profit for the full year will be ahead of 2007, “despite the dramatic deterioration in global economic conditions and the automotive industry environment in recent months,” said CFO Hans Dieter Poetsch.

    Will VW pass GM this year on their way to besting Toyota World wide? VW the only major that shows an increase in profits this year.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    VW certainly has been doing well this year, and I could see them boosting their global sales big-time in the next few years as long as Porsche doesn't meddle too much.

    But this: wants to sell around 800,000 units a year by 2018

    is an unrealistic goal for the U.S. The prices of the cars are too high to compete well in the segments they are perceived to inhabit. VW wants us to believe that their cars are worth a premium over the Accords and the Civics of the world, but the American buyer has disagreed for some time.

    Now the same thing is happening with crossovers: $29,5 for the cheapest AWD Tiguan??? They will never compete with Escape, CRV, and RAV that way.

    And they will never be very successful at lowering their prices and competing on volume until they get more than the Tennessee plant on-line in production in North America. The dollar-euro exchange will hold them in check until then. I figure it will take them a few years to bring Tennessee on-line, and another five to get another plant built if they can even justify the expense, so you're already pretty much at 2018 before the second plant can even boost numbers very much.

    Lots of companies, GM and Toyota prominent among them, have focused too much on market share (North American or global) at their peril. The goal should be PROFITS, and profitable sales.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    They will never compete with Escape, CRV, and RAV that way.

    Probably true as those are cheapo made vehicles. The real key to big numbers in the US will be the plant in TN. And diesel engines. I would look at the Tiguan with a small diesel engine as a runabout. The Touareg with a V6 diesel would also be a good choice. I think VW is still number one in the EU and China. China will pass US up in importance in the not too distant future. I have no idea what VW is trying to do selling Chrysler mini vans with their logo. That should cheapen the brand a bunch. They still have the only small diesel that passes the 50 State emissions without Urea injection.

    The Dollar value is helping currently with US sales from Germany. Only time will tell.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,724
    Well with their incentives they have been offering on most of their models, its no wonder one would want to drive a VW. Yes, they are so much fun to drive! They offered deals so good back in the Spring, I could have gotten a $30k VW for the price of a $22k VW. They are offering deals now, and they are typically seen offering deals on cars soon after a new model has come out, unlike most company's. The Tiguan is new, and you can drive one for a really nice lease. They seem to offer far more attractive deals then most. I think they really understand the concept of leasing. Honda, their leasing is so close to actually purchasing it, having a loan on it. So what is the point?
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Toyota is not going to open their almost finished factory in Tupelo as scheduled. (AutoObserver.)

    So, will VW likewise delay the new Chattanooga plant that's not nearly as far along, or try to take this opportunity to position itself as the lead automaker in North America in a year or three?
  • fho2008fho2008 Posts: 393
    Yeah VW is selling so many cars they have to have Chrysler make mini vans for em!!

    #1 by 2010? thats a year away, 2015, Yes
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    I wondered about that also. VW makes great mini vans in the EU. Why would they go with the substandard Chrysler MV platform? I guess they are selling better than expected. With the turmoil here in the US, VW is doing better than average. They have the best economy cars in the EU. If they would import them into the USA. Are they still on schedule to build a big factory in TN?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Why would they go with the substandard Chrysler MV platform?

    I think the European VW van is underpowered for the American market and overpriced due to the poor euro-dollar exchange. So they elected to have Chrysler build full-size minivans domestically for them instead. I would love to know how sales are so far for that model. One thing I read implied they were off to a good start.

    I just don't see VW overtaking Toyota in global sales, unless they buy some more foreign car companies and combine the sales totals.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Are they still on schedule to build a big factory in TN?

    I have family in Chattanooga and it sounds like the infrastructure work is going ahead as planned (roads, water, sewer, etc.). But VW is dropping hints that actual construction may be delayed or the size of the factory may be smaller than planned. Lots of people are holding their breath hoping it doesn't fall apart.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,965
    I dunno, seems to me that historically every time VW starts to get on a roll here they somehow manage to step on their crank.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    They only seem to mess up here. They are number one in the EU, China & Brazil. China will be the country to push them past Toyota. They have a lot of small very high mileage cars that the EPA does not want in the USA. So we will get the dregs as usual.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Bring the diesel Polo and they will REALLY kill with it.....

    Volkswagen plans to sell its Polo small car in the U.S.

    VW development chief Ulrich Hackenberg said the automaker plans to sell the car in the U.S. to take advantage of American buyers' increasing enthusiasm for smaller, fuel-efficient cars.

    "The small-car segment is the fastest growing segment in the U.S.,"

    Hackenberg told Automotive News Europe at the Detroit auto show. "Oil prices will rise again and that will drive small car sales up further."

    VW has never competed in the subcompact segment in the United States. The smallest car it sells here is the Golf, also known as the Rabbit. The Polo would be larger than the Toyota Yaris, but smaller than the Honda Fit, says Volkswagen Group of America CEO Stefan Jacoby.

    Jacoby says the Polo would be a "further alternative" to help VW meet its goal of more than tripling U.S. sales to 800,000 vehicles annually over the next decade. Once the economy begins to recover, oil prices will be more expensive than before the recession, Jacoby says, and VW has the "right products for that."

    "With our European heritage, we are used to compact and subcompact cars. We are working right now to upgrade these cars for the American market," Jacoby said.

    Volkswagen of America spokesman Jim Gill says he is not aware of a definite date for the Polo's U.S. launch. VW might test American reaction to the car at upcoming auto shows, he said.

    "We are definitely looking at it and what would need to be done for it to be successful," Gill said.

    Hackenberg said that U.S.-market Polos could be produced in VW's assembly plant in Puebla, Mexico. He did not say when U.S. sales of the Polo would start.

    VW will debut its latest-generation Polo at the Geneva auto show in March.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    "The global economic crisis has taken its toll on virtually every major carmaker around the globe but the effects have varied significantly between firms. General Motors’ financial predicament has been well documented, with the ailing Detroit carmaker teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.

    Toyota, too, has been hit hard by the crisis, with the usually unstoppable Japanese carmaker expecting its first loss this year after nearly seven decades of profit. Toyota announced last month that it has forecast a $4.95 billion loss for the past year – down from an $18.9 billion net profit the previous year.

    Volkswagen, on the other hand, posted a record net profit of $6 billion for the past year, and is still expecting to be profitable in 2009 despite analysts predicting the year to be one of the worst on record for the auto industry.

    CEO Martin Winterkorn revealed at a recent press conference that VW will is aiming to be the biggest carmaker in the world within nine years, and expects to be the most profitable by the end of the current financial crisis. 'We are staying in the fast lane and the fuel tank is well topped up,' he boasted to reporters.

    VW is currently ranked third behind GM and Toyota. Last year it sold 6.3 million vehicles, while GM and Toyota both sold more than eight million vehicles, but if it truly wants to overcome its rivals then VW will need to boost its profile and sell more cars in the U.S. market. Despite a significant decline in sales expected for 2009, the U.S. will almost certainly remain the world’s most lucrative market for some years to come and it is one VW is yet to breakthrough in.

    Some plans in the pipeline include the opening of a new plant in Tennessee, as well as the development of several U.S. specific models, the first of which will be a midsize sedan to take on the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.

    As for the future of the industry, Winterkorn told Reuters that he expects sales worldwide to continue to fall and that a likely outcome would be the formation of more alliances. He said he expected to see a greater concentration in the global auto industry eventually, with only one survivor in Japan, one in China, two or three in Europe and one in the United States. Bold statements but one that echoes comments made by Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne last month, who predicted that only six carmakers would survive in the longer term."
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,798
    All of VW's expansion overseas sounds promising for the brand.

    In the USA , VW still have a small, badly regarded dealer network that some auto publications dismiss as arrogant and rock bottom service-wise.

    As they prepare to manufacture cars here in the USA, VW should try their best to rectify that situation. Otherwise their USA presence won't be all that helpful towards their goal to unseat Toyota.

    There are good VW dealers within the USA. So far, in S. Calif or Portland, OR, I've not found those.
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 1,222
    You won't find one in Illinois either. :mad:


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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    I was very pleased with my purchase of a 2005 Passat TDI from Armstrong VW just South of Portland Oregon. And I got great service from Drew VW in San Diego. Compared to Poway Toyota and El Cajon Lexus the VW dealers were head and shoulders above.

    I bought my Passat via email. Well under invoice. The dealer met me at the Portland Airport. I drove the new Passat back to the dealers. Gave him a check for the amount agreed upon. He filled the tank with diesel across the street and I was headed South. The gas station attendant busted the fuel cover which was plastic trying to stretch his hose too far. When I got home I took it to Drew VW and they replaced the cover under warranty.

    I have no doubt that VW will pass GM within the next two years even if GM survives. They have the most fuel efficient vehicles of the two. Toyota may take longer as they are more in tuned to what the market wants and they do offer trucks.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Do you then foresee VW having to sell a truck before they are able to gain global sales parity with Toyota?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    It looks like VW has the new 2010 Volkswagen Robust PU coming. VW sold the HiLux PU under their name Taro. Now they are going to build their own. It they bring one with a 4 cylinder diesel I will buy it. They have about 5 models of vans they sell World Wide. I think they bought and rebadged Chryslers to save money. The ones they build are far better than the C offerings.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,965
    I'm skeptical on this one. European unions and politics will likey destroy any effort and VW just doesn't have a consistent track record.
  • fho2008fho2008 Posts: 393
    Found a great VW dealer in Illinois, they sell other brands also, heard alot of good things about the dealer I bought from.

    Where did you buy, what went wrong?

    I recently test drove a new TDI where I bought, even though I told my salesperson it would be @ 2 years before I bought, just wanted to see if everything I heard about the TDI was correct.

    As for service....thats where I heard great things about em, but it was a different brand that they sell. So far none needed.

    Extremely happy with my VW, cant wait for TDI.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,724
    I have had great service at my VW and import store. They genuinely care about my service and my needs. I would totally get another VW from my dealer, just for the fact of being treated high class when getting or servicing your car. That alone is reason enough for me. I truly love Honda, and I love VW too! I currently have an 08 G6, Love the features, love the car, hate the engine. My next car I plan to look at the VW or a Honda product. I am planning to wait awhile longer to try to get out of my current lease.

    It seems to me VW is really putting out some practical, yet premium cars at a reasonable price. Cool thing about VW, is they are fun, and they seem to offer incentives much more frequently than other companys. Sign and drive is they way to go in a lease! They have that down! There is a VW model/trim for anyone. They all have the same quality work into them. The engine alone is the reason to get one. The 2.0T is just amazing!! Even their 5cyl is quite peppy!

    I think dealer service, treatment, then the car all play a role in what car we get.
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