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I'm not sure I would agree with that. Honda is still very conservative. Aside from the TL, and S2000, I think the rest of the models are rather forgettable, styling-wise. Nissan tries to be cutting-edge, if you're the "glass half full" type. But I know people who think most Nissans are ugly. Toyota, I think, is just totally clueless when it comes to styling. They don't have any particular corporate theme. Their models are either deathly boring, or just awkward-looking. I can't think of one Toyota model that can sell on styling alone. I think most sell inspite of the styling. I think their best work is the Echo hatchback, especially in 5-door, with the boy-racer RS package.
For sure, there is nothing from Japan that can touch German models such as the SL, SLK, X5, M3, Heidi Klum, in terms of looks!
During my callow youth, I was also caught up with this, having owned a Porsche 914, 911E, and BMW 320i, in succession. For awhile, I could have bought my future brother-in-law's 260Z, which I declined because it was a two-seater. I sold it for him while he was away at medical school. I finally grew up in my late 30s after expending thousands for repairs and enduring the indignity of my Beemer spending 5-1/2 months in the body shop because of the "unavailability of crash parts" and haughty dealer attitudes.
Acura arrived on the scene in 1986 - I wised-up and traded the 320i for the Legend sedan, followed a year later with an Integra LS 4-door and a Legend L coupe to replace the '86 Legend sedan. The Integra was later traded for a second-generation '91 Legend LS sedan.
My current '96 RL is running fine at almost 103K miles. Its ride far outclasses the current Accord EX, so I don't get the claims that the RL is just an uograded Accord at twice the price.
So, if you need the "three-point star," "kidney grille," or "four interlocking rings," my best wishes to you in attaining the satisfaction and happiness you're seeking.
Personally, I don't really have a "German" or "Japanese" preference in looks. I like both the S class and FX, although the styling philosophy is very different.
BTW, I can't believe your wife does not see the beauty in the M3, or the previous M5!
I agree totally. My best friend has a 2004 Accord. I rode in it several times before I bought my new RL. I didn't think too much about it, but definitely ranked it below my 1999 RL. Then, two weeks ago, I rode with him for about 2 hours and really compared it to my 2005 RL. Even though his car is nice, there is absolutely no comparison to the RL. The materials are far cheaper looking and feeling, it doesn't ride as nice, and it's not nearly as quiet. I haven't driven it, but I can't imagine it comes close to comparing with the RL. Sure, he paid about 1/2 of what I paid, but I definitely feel I got better value.
got my RL in mid October, first one delivered in Idaho. After the battery died 10 days later, i was most unhappy. Honda USA called 3 times to make me feel better. Seems that there is a deal with General Motors and the RL has delco batteries, one short trip to Interstate and I have one that works just fine.
Off to southern California, just short of 1000 miles one way. Results: top speed is well over 140 MPH, seats are almost as good as my 740, no backaches. This is not a Lexus, you can feel the road, quiet except in the wind. Winds of 50 MPH and the RL stayed put right where I aimed it. The SHAWD did 2x the posted speed on the curves and the sensation is just like a ZR-1 I had 12 years ago. 0 to 60 is not a strength. Just over 24 miles per gallon and we did not baby it.
Overall impressions: if you are over 6 feet tall, look somewhere else. Great road car, just about as good as a BMW, but I expect far fewer visits to the mechanic. Will never own another car without Satellite radio, fantastic sound system. The blue foot lights are gorgeous. Mine is silver, so with snow and mud up to the windows it looked ok. If I had to do it over again, I would get dark blue or black, I have seen both and it is a completely different car.
cheers, will report back after 4 months in the ice and snow
I agree totally. My best friend has a 2004 Accord. I rode in it several times before I bought my new RL. I didn't think too much about it, but definitely ranked it below my 1999 RL. Then, two weeks ago, I rode with him for about 2 hours and really compared it to my 2005 RL. Even though his car is nice, there is absolutely no comparison to the RL. The materials are far cheaper looking and feeling, it doesn't ride as nice, and it's not nearly as quiet. I haven't driven it, but I can't imagine it comes close to comparing with the RL. Sure, he paid about 1/2 of what I paid, but I definitely feel I got better value.
The only way I would own a MB again is if I knew if would be gone before the warranty was up. I do not lease, but buy my vehicles, so this is an issue for me.
Also, those of you griping about the RL's price. I still think it is a bargain when I came up with a total price of about $65,000 for the new E320!!
Cutting edge design: The Audi A6 certainly is not "cutting edge" design. The only thing "cutting edge" about is its large front grille!!
The new Infiniti M sedan looks very similar to their G vehicles. I received an info packet on the car last week from Infiniti.
The only complaint I have about my new RL is that I always drive too fast!! It feels like I'm going 40 and when I glance at the speedometer, I'm going 50:)
Lynnminny
1) Ability to turn off the buzzer under the auto mode when the headlights are on and the engine is turned off.
2) Ability to get the car to automatically lock-up when all the Key FOBs leave the car.
3) Better integration of HandsFree, Center Console and NAV. Currently there are three input modes (voice only for HandsFree, restricted menus in Center Console and GUI in NAV). All setup should be available from the NAV.
4) Single voice command interface (now three: HandsFree, NAV and OnStar)
5) A voice command button accessible to the passenger (for NAV and HandsFree)
6) Ability to jump from joystick input to voice command when entering an address (from selecting letter by letter to speaking the address)
7) Use of traffic information in finding the fastest route (add an additional mode)
8) Ability to add roads and short cuts to the NAV database. A “learning mode” to learn my way to a destination (it always gives an inconvenient route home).
9) Backup Camera or all around parking sensors on the NAV screen
10) A better trip computer (with overall information for the history of the car’s life, resettable for a trip, for the current trip and from last gas change)
11) A HandsFree that will work with more Bluetooth phones (add a few other profiles like the headset profile)
12) A rain sensing wipers and perhaps a rain sensing auto sunroof closer
13) 8 way passenger seat
14) A better cruise control (laser guided, constant distance from the front car)
15) A listing of XM channels (and current songs) on the NAV display
16) Ability to program a sequence of XM stations, CD tracks etc. to rotate over with the Mode button on the steering wheel.
I've driven both (placed an order for an A6 4.2) and the RL isn't even close when it comes to drive dynamics. It just feels really good and confident. I was almost going to say that maybe it's the tires, but both cars wear all season Continentals. I will say that the A6 4.2 I drove had 18" wheels vs. only 17" on the RL. I say put all your RL bias aside and drive the A6, then tell us what you think. Objectively.
Now, back to my order. I had to cancel it. It seems Audi decided to drop the Sport Package that I wanted and replaced it with a far more expensive S-Line Package (with less equipment, mind you) as well as stop giving the color scheme that I wanted. That really stinks! We were getting all excited about the purchase and Audi pulled the rug right out from under us. Now we're back to square one of our search to find a satisfying luxury-sport sedan.
Taking that into consideration, when pricing a new LS430 without nav. you can buy the LS for less without an special deal.
All of these can be added for next year...they are not major but would improve the experience.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Similarly, how would you rate the current Accord, to say, the Accords in the late 80's - early 90's, again, relative to other cars of the same era?
I guess I'm trying to say that I always thought some of those older Honda offerings looked much better than their competitors, whereas I'm not sure I can say that about most of the current Honda/Acura lineup.
Legend was one curve ball from Acura for sure. It stood up tall in styling against any car in its class and certainly other Japanese cars at the time. But then all went away and there came RL replacement, the mother of all vanillas. This new 05 RL is certainly better in styling than the last one, but was it a bigger leap over what Legend made, relatively? I doubt it too, esp. considering all the nice looking cars out there now vs. then.
My son had a A4 and what a POS it was, had to go lemon law and got them to buy it back! He now has a new TL and loves every moment with it.
Same with the Accord. I think the late '80's early 90's (owned an '88 - kept it almost 9 years, still miss it, '91, and '93) Accords looked great, well, good at least, but I don't like the styling of the current one at all.
The current RL is nice, but doesn't really excite me in the looks department. I think Mercedes probably has the best looking cars now (except for my TL of course) :-) I also like the current BMW 3 series, and previous generation 5 and 7 series. I guess I'll have to keep my TL for 10 years if Honda can't come up with something better looking.
Back on topic I was really looking forward to the RL, but I'm kind of glad it doesn't look as good as the old Legend or the TL. If it did, I might have to try and figure out how to afford one. :-)
I'm driving a 03 TL-S and never had a problem with it and I now have 30,000 miles on it. My wifes car is a 94 Legend with the 230 hp. engine. That car has 173,000 and runs like a champ. Car still looks great even next to today's cars. I don't think we will ever get rid of it.
(I better get off talking about the TL before the host smacks me!)
All this brought me back to the RL. After much research on line and more than 1 drive of the 04 RL I was close. 38K out the door with 7year at no cost. but I knew about the 05 RL and waited. Finally the web site and conformation of mid Oct release. Waited with baited breath - and drove a clestial several with black interion - loved it.....Gave verbal - I will take - just need to show it to momma. She barfed on black interior. and dealer barffed on me. But I did showup with the check book. Took the first Redondo REd coming in in 6weeks. and it did show up right on schedule. Picked it up and I was off and running. 2:47 minutes into ownership - got rear-ended - just a tap but with less than 100 on -- called police filed reprt insurance and everything. Went to dealer for inspection and O damage. The bumper took it without problem. The car is now named Lucky Red. Since that time have played with all features and got them all to work and do it smoothly. HF link is great - just make a phone book. OnStart -my second phone no problems, commands similiar and voice recgonition is excellent. I do use a sony/errickson t637 for bluetooth and it works well, Climate control wonderful especially with ability to put mommy;s heat on her feet and the ac in my face. Navigation is great,programing easy as lonk as you know the address. If you don;t you can always scroll around the may and pick a place without worry. The only buggie I have is voice recgonition for radio is sloppy.
Have 600 mikes on the first 2 weeks and will be putting a 2500 trip together soon, For an old codger like me this RL is the car. We are retireing son and will drive the country including Alaska and Canadian Rockies. I feel we will be very happy and don;t plan too many maint
We all talk styly and speed off the line, the RL has it just don;t run against A8, XJ8, SL500 or 600 and some of the smaller fords and chevys. Remember these few items: If we wanted to race by a itilian Lamborgni, Aston Martin, G40 Ford, ver or porche, if you want to get where your going fairly fast, save and look good the RL it.
I went back and looked at the RL again (it looks like there are quite a few cars now available at dealers). The acceleration and braking issues which have been examined in detail mean that this does not rate as a best in class performance car. I totally agree with the posts that point out that the back seat is not spacious and that cannot be fully remedied by just moving the front seats up (especially if you are +6 feet tall). Trunk space is less of an issue for some but trunk and back seat are not comparable in measurement or to the eye vs. Merc E 320 or Audi A6 (go look at the cars as some have suggested -- I bumped my head getting in and out of the RL).
I want to buy the RL but probably won't especially until I see the Infiniti M -- very impressed with the advance materials/information but will have to see. Infiniti M brakes, acceleration have been first rate recently, interior and trunk space (and interior appointments esp. with Rosewood interior) seem to fit the bill. Why didn't Acura get most of these key items right (I drive Acura and would prefer it to most any brand).
I have been trying for a couple of weeks and keep getting an error message and that I should try back later. I have tried at least 10 times.
Thanks.
Regarding the Acura RL vs. the upcoming Ifinity M car, I'll state another "supposition". Based upon it's previous track record, Infiniti makes some nice cars, but...
Their styling is just a bit too "committee like". A chunk of chrome here, a dash that has a bit too much Ford/GM look there, etc., etc. I still have a 1995 Nissan Maxima SE that I find cleaner looking than the sister Infiniti I30, with its addition of chrome here and there. When I was shopping for my 2004 TL, I tried out the G35 Sedan 6-speed. While they had fixed a few early aesthetic offenses, the interior of the facelifted G35 was still at least 2-3 rungs down from the brand new TL. I would not expect the new M car to avoid this pattern. At least the RL is a very good looking vehicle, out of the box.
Infiniti resale is horrible, at least for their mid and upper end models. Acura's previous RL hasn't fared well, either, but the old Legend did pretty well. I have seen Q45's lose $15k-$20k+ in 12-18 months. The former M cars were worth peanuts after they were driven off the lot.
In summary, the RL may or may not be someone's cup of tea, but the new Infiniti M, in my opinion, should be approached with a high degree of caution.
P.S. I have a friend who actually "appreciates" Infiniti's depreciation. He bought a 1993 J30. After a couple of years, decided he wanted something else. The trade in value of the two year old mint condition J30 was so low that he couldn't afford to trade. He HAD to keep the Infiniti. After another 3-4 years, he got something else and passed the J30 on to his college bound daughter. She has driven it another 4+ years. The car now has 195,000 miles on it, still drives and looks good (or as good as the J30 ever did). It was, and is, a great car. Just don't buy an Infiniti thinking you can change your mind; it's a marriage without the possiblity of a cheap divorce.
Interesting analogy. However, for those people who doesn't mind marrying a young divorcee, it might be an excellent choice buying a slightly used Infiniti, knowing that she is capable of staying with you for many years and retaining her nice looks throughout :-)
On that note, people do not really care about break neck performance and cutting edge gadgets can get a great deal now on an 04 RL. IMHO, I don't think the 04 RL looks bad at all (it might even look like an MB from a certain angle); perhaps just a bit bland. If Goggle's only gripe is rear seat and trunk space, he may be happy with the 04 RL, which has "value" and reliability to boot :-)
Question: When backing out of my driveway, with no rear obstructions, the sensors go wild...loud, until the end of the driveway. Is there some means of lowering the sound of the beeps or modifying the sensors in any way?
I'd appreciate some help, thanks.
Wife and I have been spending the day learning slowly and enjoying the many refinements. I did notice that the ride is much firmer, and harsher, than my '96 RL, which I relinquished sadly to the dealer this morning.
More of a review to follow in the next week.
Wish I could help you with the back up sensors.. that's one option I didn't get. We have known going in that the ride was a little firmer than even our TL but love the way the car handles. A question I have about the car...(I suppose my hearing could stand a little tweaking) there is a very suttle, mellow sound that appears to come from the exhaust system. I rather enjoy it but am not totally sure if it coming from the exhaust or not. Does anyone else hear it or should I schedule a hearing exam? (Am quite sure it isn't the off setting cabin sound system)
I am in my pajamas, up to my ears in manuals, or I would gladly fire up the engine and try to pin down the sound you are hearing. I will lissen up tomorrow and get back to you.
I am astonished how much we have learned in the course of one day - and how very much further we have to go. As I said in an earlier post, I am eighty and my wife is not far behind. Our learning curves are slightly flattened - only slightly! :-) We still can't figure out how to clear the screen once we have completed a task.
Mayday! Mayday!
I'd appreciate some help, thanks.
I have backup sensors on my Odyssey for 1+ year. Based on what you have described, the sensors are picking up "obstacles" from the side (bushes, short wall, etc.)or the driveway (a reversed slope? if your garage is lower than the road). Backup sensors are unreliable when they are covered with thin layer of ice (left out in cold) or water (rain). People who live in snowy or rainy weather should keep that in mind.
If all things checked out OK, you may ask the dealer to adjust the angels of the sensors to face upward a bit to avoid it. All it takes is angled rings if such things exist from Acura.
I listened carefully several times during the day and at no time was there any hint of any sound other than the gentle purring of the engine - even THAT was barely perceptible. Has the sound appeared consistently?
2nd Day Ownership Observation:
I am the slightest bit crestfallen. Perhaps, having come from my '96 RL, I was expecting a "luxurious" ride, not the slightly harsh one that picks up every little bump in the road. Additionally, do you share the sensation of being jostled about a bit? Those comments aside, I love the refinement, power and electronics. The DVD has been very helpful and I'm about to tackle the Nav system and XM Traffic.
Interestingly, because of my prior ownership of three Honda bikes, three Accords, a 1990 Legend and a '96 RL, I took no notice of the comments that were posted about the quality of the ride because I simply couldn't entertain the idea of buying anything OTHER than the '05 RL! With the exception of the Legend's brakes (1990), I simply have spent little if any time at the dealer's; that's some allure!!! But "Acuraphile" does define me and my somewhat irrational approach to Honda products; I'm in Honda's thrall.-:)
My wife is wild about the RL! I've never seen her drive with such enthusiasm. After all, I've been involved with cars, bikes and planes all of my life (married life, as well)and she never expressed anything but a pleasant interest in any car that I've chosen. At age 72, she drives as well now as ever...and not in the right lane either!
I hope that I grow accustomed to the ride because I honestly admire the car in all other respects.The RL was not launched to be KING of the road - just a handsome, energetic PRINCE!
Seriously, there was an interesting article in the Friday edition of the Washington Post, discussing the new crop of AWD sedans out there, including the RL. While they did taut some AWD performance advantages (911 Turbo), they also noted that the supposed handling advantages in everyday sedans come at the significant expense of added weight, engineering complexity and potential future maintenance and repair issues. The question of the long term value of AWD, except in very specific circumstances, was left to the reader to figure out.
Also, with the "sport" vs. "luxury" preferences expressed here in this forum, my vote would be for Acura to have a standard RL geared towards luxury, with an optional sport package. This is the highly successful formula that BMW has offered on it's 5-series. For example, the idea that one set of wheels and tires is going to please everyone is just plain wrong. The RL utilizes relatively low profile, relatively high performance tires that are neither as pothole and bump friendly as BMW's standard 5-series (or, apparantly, as the old RL), nor as performance oriented as BMW's sport package tires.
I sincerely appreciate Acura's no-nonsense approach to limiting options, as it relates to luxury items. But, given that they have two fairly significantly different versions of the TL in the "luxury" oriented automatic and "performance" oriented 6-speed, perhaps they need to consider the same with the RL. I that way the luxury minded buyers won't be complaining about a harsh ride and I could have something other than a 5-series sport to chose from in the $50k price range.
her disinterest in any negative comments!! :-)
I drove for an hour this morning and am slowly losing my interest in the harshness. To digress for a moment: Is there any means of making the car chirp from a distance when the remote is activated? It's so much easier to locate when that friendly chirp sounds. I miss that very much.
jj, are you still hearing that sound from the exhaust?
You will find your self loving your new RL even more as you drive it longer:)
Lynnminny
Yep...still hear that suttle, mellow sound and I rather enjoy it HMMMMM. I'll try to get a more definate fix on it today.
Regarding the RL suspension, it is a subjective assessment by all of us but I would not characterize the ride as "harsh" at all but rather "more firm than average" in order to have the impressive handling and cornering capabilities it has. This was an important factor for me in buying the RL back in October. If it had an "average" suspension I would not have bought it and probably retained my BMW 530 instead.
I'm shopping both the '05 RL and the '05 A6 3.2. The Acura dealer that I've been dealing with hasn't been able to give me quotes on the scheduled maintenance costs of the RL, besides "around $30" for an oil change. Has anyone investigated this? If so, any information would be appreciated. I'm leaning towards the RL due to comfort, quality, technology, etc., but the lease numbers and free scheduled maintenance on the A6 are keeping me interested...
Just a side note, the Acura dealer gave me an overnight extended test drive of the RL which really gave me time to get familiar with the car and find out what I like/don't like. The Audi dealers I have spoken with have been unwilling to do this so far due to their "low inventory". That excuse in itself is making me lean towards Acura
Thanks,
Lawrence