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But for $35K I am quite itching to jump into buying it. The only thing is the timing. I have three more month on my lease and I have to pull my $$ together. Incentives are said to expire on 09/03. Does it mean come September 4 the car will only be available for $39K? Doesn't make sense. I hate to buy under time pressure. But would be upset to realize I might have missed a great opportunity. Does anyone know how this expiration works.
Also any word about 2003? Is it going to be complete make over or cosmetical improvements (in-dash CD :-), etc... ). The dealer said they don't know. But got a notion that 2003RL is probably going to be complete make over - V8, AWD, etc... But he said it's gonna be a $50K car. Sheesh. I don't need V8, AWD, etc...; all I want is in-dash CD and maybe few more horses; all for under 40K would be a dream. But I suppose I want too much.
Also what about carsdirect? Are they for real? On the surface looks like the most convenient option. Any down sides of going thru carsdirect?
Appreciate any information, replies.
Acura will keep the incentives on until the 2002's are gone and may even increase it. When I was shopping for mine it went from 3k to 5k.
Where are you located? You need to start poking around to find a dealer near you with a bunch on inventory. They will be ready to wheel and deal.
Acura dealers with a couple RL's can be a little more challenging. I worked with Jay Wolfe in KC, MO. They always have a large inventory and are ready to deal.
As far as a redesign, I have not heard of any changes for the 2003 model. Perhaps the 2004 model will be completely new, and show up somewhat early in 2003. However, Honda recently said it would not build a V8 RWD model. So unless it is really something special, I don't see the V6 FWD RL at $50,000. The dealer was probably just trying to scare you into the $35,000 car he had on the lot.
The '03 is an enigma ... usually there is a leak or two about what will happen via the dealers. E.G., last year, beginning in February, everyone knew in advance that there would be an hp boost, suspension changes, and so on. The surprise would be with the release in late March.
Come to think of it, I think this is what Honda usually does .... a month or two before release, you have everything but tires to kick.
But on the RL: nothing.
Which makes me hope they plan something special -- I had it figured that they would let the '02 run two model years, then come out with the new platform, but the big incentives this early surprise me. It suggests maybe an October or November release, doesn't it?
Certainly the sytyle will be conservative -- THis is Honda after all. But if they can manage a new one with an in-dash CD changer, a sun roof that shuts quick enough to snap the heads off chickens, a parking brake that can be optioned to be placed and operate according to individual buyers' tastes, and -- in my case -- a Homelink systyem that I can get to work with my garage door ... well then I can show them a group of people who will pay something between $50,000 and $1.32.
Oh yeah, I forgot -- if it depreciates, it has to be like the Hope diamond.
Take care.
Joe W.
Thanks in Advance
Mike
The homelink system on the RL should be compatible with most garage door openers. I used it against a door opener with a fix code and one that use intellicode which varies the code everytime its used.
The intellicode version isn't as easy to setup because I couldn't use the remote to program the RL. I had to have a second person active it from the actual door opener while the RL recorded it.
William
Seems simple enough and a minor aggravation.
Take care.
Joe W.
ES300-nice and quiet, but there is still no fix for the current transmission probs
G35-super quick, but a bit too small
X type-beautiful, but can only find dealers in major cities. Also, this isn't a reliable car.
RL-comfortable, quiet, great quality, enough power for daily driving, and I got to say this is the best car for the $$ (with the rebate). The only concern I have is that the government never did any crash test on the RLs. The closest crash test data I can find is the current Honda Accord. I got to say it's not very impressive compare with the same class. Weird thing is that the Civics are rated better than Accords.
Does anyone have any info on RL crash test?
The Maxima that I own has a remote that can honk the car horns more than a 100 feet away, which is great when you forget where you parked or your are concerned that someone might be lurking around the car. It can also lower the windows from a distance, if you want to cool down the car in the summer before you get in.
The 02 RL has On-Star system, which I understand is free for the first year. Does anyone find the system helpful and is a subscriber to the system after the first year? Kindly advise.
Regarding your alarm question. Yes, it's a standard feature, and would work like your Maxima. Except that it doesn't have the "window roll down" feature to my knowledge.
Regarding OnStar, yes, I love it. I figure for $16.99 a month (after the 1st year) it's nice to know I can track the car if it's stolen. Have them unlock the doors for me, have them sound the alarm so I can find it in a parking lot, send help if I drive off a cliff in the middle of the night, etc.
Your insurance company might also give you a discount for OnStar as well.
I also have a Genie (chain model) with intellicode. My wife got on the ladder to hold down the training button on the unit until it started flashing. I think she let go of the button while I press the Homelink button for a few seconds until it starting flashing quickly. I remember reading somewhere that Homelink supports intellicode.
The RL alarm can be programmed to beep or not beep by holding down the "Lock" and "Trunk" buttons simultaneously for a second or two. The light on the remote will start blinking when its changed. I think this will do it, but I'll have to check my manual. I've only switched back and forth about 3 times throughtout my 3 years of ownership.
The alarm on the RL has excellent range. It uses radio waves and has no problems going through drywall. I tested it from within my home locking the car in the garage. :-) I can beep my car from my office building a few hundred feet away in the parking lot.
BMW uses infared so there is a red bulb on their mirrors. I guessing infared can easily be blocked so thats why its on the mirror.
Odd: my alarm also has very little distance, no more that 40 ft. or so. (Something else to question?)
I'm starting to feel deprived!
Take care.
Joe W.
Thanks
One note on the indash vs trunk mounted CD, the RL's stereo "has the best sound I've ever heard in a car"...so says an informed friend of mine. Me thinks he's right.
mevande aka Mike, I feel your pain of stupid design. Imagine how difficult life would be if you had the new 740 with a little silver button that controls 90% of the car. $74K for that much trouble? Not to mention the growing number of owners tired of taking their new 740s back to the shop for numerous (and constant) "fixes". The horror!
Not sure it will help, but www.homelink.com is a good place to start with regards to what does and does not work with your system. Some garage door openers just won't work with Homelink.
kiiwii, I haven't heard about crash test results on the RL, but didn't the TL get a "good" rating all around? Might want to do an extensive search of the Internet. I'll bet there are details out there somewhere.
kennyg5, yes, there is an alarm and it's most useful for finding the car in a crowded parking lot. Pity the alarm arms itself despite the trunk being opened. And Joe, my alarm has wild swings in its range. But for the most part, it usually exceeds 40ft. Perhaps a new battery?
As for OnStar, read more about it at www.onstar.com. I like it but beyond the basic package, I find their prices a little too rich. Plus their prices for cellular phone service is just waaaaaaaaay too high.
pwsharpe - which Acura dealer? I've never been denied a loaner while under warranty (I was even given one when I had some non-warranty work done). I think a phone call to Acura Customer Service is in order!
Relentlessly,
L
So get ready for more of the same! Big car, FWD, big six.
whotheman
They will need to offer hp that is perceived as adequate for a "big" car, just for the marketing, and I think the 300 hp barrier should be in their sites. And it's not unreasonable at 3.8 liter if they apply VVTi and other Honda technology.
They will also need electronic gadgetry. Navigation was good once upon a time. Now -- Maybe voice-activated cupholders, tire pressure monitors that tell you when you have enough air in the tires (as you fill them!), maybe a combination fridge and subwoofer in the center console?
Well, the point is that they have to come up with something that will be perceived as worth $45,999 (prophet2's suggested number) and competitive with Lexus, MB, Infiniti, BMW and so on.
If they bring out a car in the mid-200s in hp, with nothing very special other than "nice" to drive, we'll have another car like Infiniti's M45 -- priced at the 40s but perceived as bland and predicted to be like the current RL ... offering little buyer interest until its price descends pretty far into the $30s.
Just speaking as a customer .....
TAke care.
Joe W.
Still though that is much less than the ~39,500 BMW 5-Series and ~49,800 E-Class sedans sold last year.
I think some brands just don't get any recognition. Look at the Audi A8, they sell less than 2500 models a year. The Lexus LS430 only sold about 15,000 models last year. If the RL is a sales flop, so is the LS430.
The next RL has to really stand out in terms of value and features. The new E-Class now has 4-zone climate control. Putting in a V8 with 300 hp would make it no better than a Q45.
Just looking at the competition, there is a lot that needs to go into the RL than just a larger engine.
I see the next RL having a
3.5L DOHC Hybrid V6 at 280-290 hp (can't up the NSX)
(Fuel Economy would be best in class) (based off Acura DualNote)
All Wheel Drive (also based off the Acura DualNote)
Length would be 203 in long (making volume best in class)
All the features found in the MDX and the features found in the Pilot and 03 Accord as standard equipment.
Rear view camera (from the Pilot)
This would include features like Side curtain airbags, XM radio, voice activated nav, and climate controls (from 03 Accord).
A separate climate control for the rear passengers (from the MDX)
I think that would be enough to generate good sales. (My only concerns are long term effects of sitting next to an electric engine and the possible EMF that it generates). That concern alone may be enough for me to purchase a different brand.
As for the first six months of this year, sales are:
13,049 - LS 430
10,743 - 7 Series
9,988 - S-Class
4,538 - RL
1,908 - Q45
It is all matter of perception, RL is considered deficient in some areas only as a luxury car. Read all reviews about Toyota Avalon. They are raving saying what a great value this best-kept secret near-Lexus car is. But fully loaded Avalon will cost you 33+K, with arrogant Toyota dealers not badging at all, and it is still falls far below RL in terms of features, handling/ride, power, warranty and dealer service all for 35K these days. So, Avalon is great family sedan and RL is wallflower of luxury cars. Who cares? The way I look at it, show me a car, which offers better value within 35K, and I'll consider it seriously.
$45,650 - RL w/nav
$36,380 - Avalon loaded w/nav
$43,650 - RL
$34,380 - Avalon loaded
With or without nav, you're looking at a difference of $9,270. Now, I know they discount both cars. Say you can get $2,500 off the Avalon. To make them equal, you would need to get $11,770 off the price of the RL. Maybe people get these kinds of discounts, I don't know.
Even the invoice of the base RL is $38,920.
I'm not saying the Avalon is good or bad, but the car is considerably cheaper than an RL. I just don't understand the comparison.
If Acura is discounting the RL $12,000 (or even close to that), they need to reconsider their pricing. Discounts that high devalue the car and brand, as Infiniti has proven. They should just lower the price and give smaller discounts. The market is saying the car is priced too high relative to competitors.
Even the demographics are not similar.
Source: carpoint. I don't claim its accuracy so please don't flame me.
Mercedes S-Class
Average age: 52
Income: $185,000
Lexus LS430
Average age: 60
Income: $145,000
The Audi A8 come closer at
Average age: 62
Income: $165,000
I was curious to see where the RL stood.
Acura RL
Average age: 51
Income: $107,000
That sound about right. Strange, the income leve for Q45 (49, $100,000) owners is actually less than RL owners.
Yes, you will get the die-hard MB, BMW and Lexus fans who will just continue to get the same car no matter what.
But the three cars are relatively close in price, interior dimensions (not counting the long wheelbase 7) and features. Plus they are all RWD. MB, BMW and Lexus each know they compete against one another at the upper end.
Check any magazine comparison and you'll see the three cars are direct competitors.
Thanks for the interesting demo info.
You compared RL and Avalon based on their MSRPs, and you came up with 9K difference. Then you arbitrarily applied $2500 discount to Avalon (???, in my experience Toyota dealers are most difficult to bargian with, but that's besides the point) and came up with 12K difference.
The real comparison should be based on TMVs, everyone knows MSRP could be inflated. Carsdirect shows 33+K for loaded Avalon and 34,800 for RL (including Acura's rebate). So, Avalon is not "considerably" cheaper than RL, and coming back to my original point RL does offer considerably much more.
So, in terms of values, I think RL is much better value although the bandwagon of car reviews make the opposite impression.
I do agree with your point, that pricing/discounting game is lame and annoying and manufacturers should get real. It's bad enough dealers show you car with custom stripes and with a sticker on it 20% higher than what you know this car's market price is.
I appreciate the response.
The accord will also offer an indash MP3/digital media player, and hands free cell phone system.
Starting 10/1, the Accord, Pilot and MDX will offer XM radio.
The accord sounds nice, just wish it came in 203 in sizes.
But, the sales figures don't lie. The current RL is in a "niche" that people aren't buying into. And, I think that's a shame! I'm merely looking for cachet "improvements" to enhance my driving experience, which are things already in other Acura models: in-dash CD changer; 5-speed AT; foot-release parking brake; a few more horses under the hood (270 from a V-6 sounds OK); and refreshed exterior lines. Oh, Pearl White paint. I'm not looking for RWD or a V-8 configuration. And, Joe's request of an improved suspension for cornering is "right-on."
Remember, I hope for an improved non-NAV '04 model with an MSRP of $46K maximum. If not, the checkbook stays closed.
We have detailed map books which get revised annually. I've managed to get around whenever I've rented cars on the mainland with the help of street maps.
Got better things to spend $2K on.
The MDX has been upgraded to 260hp using the same 3.5L engine. It now includes Vehicle Stability Assist, new All Wheel Drive system and new 5-sp auto (possibly gear changes). Also a rear entertainment system is available with NAV (not sure if its voice activated as with the Accords). A rear view camera is also available. (Source: C&D).
I expect the next RL will have many of these features as standard equipment. With the introduction of the 340 hp Infiniti M45 V8 in the RL price range, Acura will need to bump their hp up to about 350 to be best in class. (Possibly a 290 hp 3.5L V6 and a 60hp IMA). Still see AWD as an option since its in the Acura DNX prototype.
I suspect your dealer might have had one demo version with 5K on odometer, which he wanted to push to you with a made up "dealer incentive".
By the way, do you know when they start rolling out 03s, (which by all accounts is unchanged car) and when incentive for those might kick in?
Thanks.
If you're worried, could you buy out of your lease for the balance and sell the car for more than the residual on your own early? Also, some have claimed good success at swapalease.com.
Just curious: if you opt out of the RL because the incentive goes, what do you plan to go to instead?
Go Bluejays.
Joe W.
It sometimes takes Edmunds awhile to update the incentive information, and many sites do not list dealer incentives, so its usually better to just call.
Anyway, if RL doesn't come thru, I am really not sure what alternatives to go for. On one hand there are so many out there, on the other hand RL is the only one that kinda fits my requirements: FWD, level of luxury and size-wise for a reasonable price. If you look around there aren't that many around like it. Lexuses are either too crumy or too pricey. I kinda like Lincoln LS V8, which also sold with big discounts, but it's RWD, and they say '03 will have 300 improvements. So, makes me wonder: should I wait for the new issue? because how bad a 40K car has to be to need 300 improvements? I also think about Avalon. But I can't stand Toyota, and if they say RL with 225HP is sluggish, then what about Avalon with 210HP!?
Do you have suggestions? I'll appreciate.
Hey, if RL doesn't come thru this year by the time I return my car, I might use your swaplease option after all.
IMO, RLs selling at mid-thirties provide good value. This is so because many entry-level luxury cars are selling at much lower prices, including the TL, Avalon, I35 and Maxima, and they provide comfort and technology that are close or comparable to the RL. Unless RL makes substantial improvements, it is difficult for Acura to justify a much higher price, much less the MSRP, which Acura knows is unrealistic.
As there will be little or no change to the 03 RLs, I think they will be sold, initially, close to or slightly below invoice. As time passes, they will have to be sold again with incentives or rebates, in light of past and current sale records. The 04s will be anyone's guess, since Acura has not let anyone know about them; although it has been rumored that they will be completely different or significantly upgraded.
I still drive auto-X on the weekends, goldkey, and I've owned cars with much greater hp (and much greater $$$), and I'm totally satisfied. To me, value isn't a dirty word; it's a car that's comfortable on the road and always always runs. So far as acceleration is concerned, I'm less inclined to worry about 0-60 than I am, say, 30-80 (for driving in traffic) and as someone who has to drive behind slow-moving cars on a two-lane road for 30 miles each morning, I'm satisfied ... not blown away, but satisfied.
Suggestions: well, what about the TL? or the G35? smaller, but very nice cars.
Go Bluejays.
Joe W.
I followed jwilson's suggestion to take another look at TL. And my heart still is not there. Feature by feature and on paper TL looks like a better deal. TL has more advanced modern features not present at RL, which is a tad old-fashioned in comparisson. TL is faster and corners like a rock. But something is missing for my taste. I think ride and cabin feel. Driving TL might keep you exhilarated and on your toes looking for the next traffic light to beat the crowd on the punch.
But that's not what I am looking for. I felt tense and jittery in TL and conscious of that low headroom all the time. (later I figured that it is not the low roof that bothered me, but very close point of where windsheild and roof meet). RL, on the other hand gave me complete relaxation, and I guess that's what I need in a car. Hope, the deal will come true. If not, not big deal, I am not going to cry over it. Spending that much money another day on another car is never going to be a problem.
Just as a point of info -- the interior measurements of the RL and the TL are VERY similar, almost exact. The difference, as you point out, is the rake of the windshield.
Enjoy.
Joe W.