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MY ADVICE, IF YOU WANT A CAR TO IMPRESS OTHERS, THE JAGUAR IS DEFINETLY THE ONE FOR YOU, IF YOU WANT A CAR THAT WILL IMPRESS YOU, THEN DO NOT GET BITTEN BY A JAGUAR.
My brakes also "sceech loudly" from time to time. The dealer tells me this is because of the type of brake pad that has to be used and to spray pressured water into the wheel. It happens so often that I really wonder if something else is going on. The dealer tells me everything is fine and not to bring the car in until the 10,000 mile warranty check. Anyone else have this same problem?
Those with Lincoln LS's (which does have the battery in the trunk) who have gone with a "superior" (and far less expensive) aftermarket replacement have often ended up with corrosion and/or damaged paint. Plus which, it's a bad plan to have hydrogen venting into what is essentially the passenger compartment.
FWIW.
But after hearing that they still haven't got their act together in terms of quality, we're gonna pass and stick to reliable brands. My least favorite activity in the world is getting cars to and from the dealer's repair shop and paying for repairs.
I wonder when they'll wake up and realize that their lousy reliablity costs them money. A great handling and performing car that looks fantastic and it still can't get large volume sales...hmmm, wonder why?
You need to tell him your mileage, exact options, general condition, color and your location. Check other posts to be sure you provide all the information necessary.
Let us know what you find out.
I had to remove a couple of messages for that reason.
Sorry for your lumps. I see you've picked up a C240 - good luck with it. Take care - see you around the Town Hall.
I found this one http://www.cars.com/search/used/cc/standard/results/single/ld/det- - ail.jhtml?paId=149199788&aff=sacbee&src=&cid
listed for less with only 14K miles, but it isn't fully loaded. However that price is only a list price that's subject to further negotiating and discounting.
If I were going to get a used non-loaded S-Type, I'd see if I could find something nice for under $30K. If I were in the market today and they discounted that car down to $30K, I'd think about buying it. Trading to a dealer at one year old is a money-losing situation.
I am not selling that car and I am not going to buy that car. It is only an example I found from an internet search to see what late model S-types were being listed for locally.
I LOVE this car. I have had allot of new cars over the years. This car has been absolutely perfect and has filled all expectations. If you look at JD Powers initial quality, you will see Jag is the top rated European luxury car. This model has been around in variations since 1999. With ongoing improvements, I think you will see a car with "the bugs worked out". Some have comment about lack of quality. Wrong. I might avoid pre 2003 due to reported transmission problem. A lot of cars have some weak point statically but the majority of people don't experience it. Also remember that if you pay 45000 for a car, your tolerance for imperfection is minimal.
With proper snow tires, the Michigan winter was no problem.
Compare this to a 530i; you will love the luxury, performance and beauty. I personally also love the lack of iDrive. Check the 6/2004 Road and Track for good comparisons.
Anyone who buys a car in this price range and then acts surprised that the trade in value after one year is lousy isn’t researching their purchase very well. I remember an old economics professor of mine (in my previous live) saying that the value of an object is what you can sell it on the open market for, not what you may arbitrarily place the value. I used “dream car” like an S losses allot of its dream value just by being used. Just a fact of our live. I personally didn't even look at a one year old fully equiped 2003 4.2 for 35000 initial asking price for the same reason.
The current Jaguar is not the old Jaguar from 15 years ago. Thank you Ford. Try it, you’ll like it.
Thank goodness for Indian casinos in California...
What is the tow capacity of the S type R? I want to tow a Sea Doo (or two)...
I've had a Lincoln LS for the past 7 months, I like and the V8 has good power, just not enough for me.
I know a number of people that have the S type 4.0, they love the cars and have few if any complaints. I don't know anyone with the R package.
The S Type R does intrigue me. My local Jag dealer has been after me to test drive one. 2 things have kept me from doing so.
1 – I expect that the power would be quite enough to keep me entertained.
2 – The price (even of a used one – and even with a $4K drop in MSRP for 2005) is still a bit more than I would like to spend. Today.
OK – 3 things – after driving the LS in SST mode for probably 95+ percent of the 11,000 miles – I find the J Gate shifter to be very annoying. (I have driven both a 4.0 and a 4.2 Sport.)
OK – 4 things – even with the 6 speed trans. (and 16 / 24 EPA) I think that the fuel tank capacity is too small . . . (quibble)
OTOH, with HP and TQ in the 400 range, perhaps I could do without the ability to so easily control the trans. shifting.
And then I’d have to buy one . . .
- Ray
Wondering if next Spring’s 300C SRT-8, at 400+ HP, will be even quicker than the R . . .
But reading all of your messages, the memories came flooding back. All the trips to the dealership, the screaming matches (You sold me a LEMON...No we didn't) I actually bought a stick-on decal that read "Lemon-and the name of my dealership" It was all in a lovely shade of yellow of course. That's when they decided to replace my transmission.
And what's with the Asian girl in a Jag deal? I get so many people STARING ME DOWN that it's just plain uncomfortable. I was stopped by a cop once and she asked if I bought the car?!?!?!
All of your messages just reminded me of why I should never be stupid enough to make the same mistake. I'm going for the 20005 Acura RL.
Most of what I want only comes from Europe, and I'm not pleased with what that means in terms of reliability. I actually buy cars and expect them to last (without debilitating expense) 150K miles, minimum.
Audi, VW, Jaguar, BMW & Merc -- what's the common theme? Fun to drive, but make sure you've got a full-coverage warranty of some sort. Yeah, but. . .taking the car in more than once or twice a year amounts to an intrusion on my time, even if it's "free."
My present car is still working (knocks on desk), but its replacement is totally up in the air. If the German stuff lasted, it'd only be a fun decision having to do with which good vehicle to choose. Given that none of them has that rep, I'm considering only Asian stuff. . .if I had to replace my current car next week.
What a shame.
The second thought is that if you pay upward of $50,000 for a vehicle,you expect it to be reliable, fun to drive and look good.
I belong to the second belief.
The S-type belongs to the CEO and he's about ready to dump it. More often then not he has a loner Jag. My CTS has been rock solid and the STS has the same base mechanicals. Check it out, you may be pleasently suprised.
I also noticed some "new type" Jag drivers are quiet different from the traditional Jag drivers.
The traditional Jag drivers seems to be more educated and you can tell they drive expensive cars (they are proud of their "status" too).
After Jag introduced the X-type & the S-type, it seems that there is another group of "new Jag" drivers (usually S-type drivers). I don't think I can say they are proud of their "status" and they don't seem to be well-educated but I am sure they are proud of their cars. They think they are someone and they look down people, more liked those Lexus drivers (if they are that "rich", why can't they affort European luxury cars ??). However, the way they look and the way they act couldn't fit them into the Jag. They are more liked truck drivers or big American car drivers.
If your point is that traditional Jag drivers don't care a whit for reliability, or the cost or time-consuming nature of repairs (even on warranty), then I guess the best thing to do would be to just say so.
I'm guessing that many "new Jag" drivers (your quotes) expect the car to measure up against other luxury and/or performance vehicles in the same price class. This concept has given me pause over the past few years.
If what one wants is a vehicle that's lots of fun to drive, with marginal reliability, my choice would be either Audi or BMW. If one wants reliability, Lexus or Infinity come to mind. It's not at all clear to me where Jaguar fits in, other than with respect to styling.
I guess your put is that the group of people attracted to the "new Jag" (your quotes), but not willing to spend money on it aren't really worthy. "If it don't go, chrome it," is a phrase from many decades ago.
Anyway, you're almost certainly right.
(Oh, please don’t throw me in THAT briar patch!)
OK. I drove it. For about 20 minutes. On winding back country roads, briefly on the Interstate and through the local Mall area.
I want one.
I currently drive a 2003 Lincoln LS Sport. My recommendation to any LS V8 owners looking to “step up” when the time comes to make a change should NOT drive this car, unless they are ready to spend the money.
Those who have read my posts (here and elsewhere) over the years my have noticed that I typically test drive a variety of cars – even when I am not seriously in the market.
This car affected my as no other has in recent memory. And it was not only the intoxicating acceleration of close to 400 HP.
The car: 2005 S-Type R – Metallic BRG (emerald?) called Jaguar Racing Green over Champagne. Optional Nav. List price ~ $61.5K Approx. 3,000 miles.
I have driven a couple of S-Types and XJs. I rented an S-Type for a long weekend in 2001 while I owned my Y2K LS V8 Sport. It was a 4.0 V8 Sport and a nice car. Not worth any premium over my LS at the time, to me, but I enjoyed driving it from Phoenix to and around Tucson and up Mt. Lemon.
This R is a different breed of Cat.
The motor is absolutely intoxicating. Jaguar got it right here. There is just the right amount of sound at around town speeds and in light to moderate acceleration to confirm that this is a sporting vehicle. When you request real acceleration, it is smooth and very, very powerful. Effortless. Wow.
This 6 speed trans. is a joy. I am on record as driving my LS in SST mode nearly all the time, and manumatic shift control is something I have enjoyed now on 3 consecutive cars (2 LSs) and expected never to be able to give up. This trans. has made me re-think that position.
The motor and trans. work together extremely well. The shifts at WOT and high rpm are very quick, but not harsh. At lower speeds and smaller throttle openings, the shifts are rather intriguing. Watching the tach and listening to the exhaust, there is a pause and then a drop in rpm, almost like a relatively casual manual shift, but with absolutely no hint of any interruption in the acceleration. Smooth. A very well sorted and calibrated drivetrain. Most impressive. How did they do this?
I played with the J gate – found it still unsatisfying, as expected. But this drivetrain’s extraordinary coordination allowed me to leave the trans. in D and enjoy the rest of the drive. It did the best job by far (I left it in Sport mode) of any car I have driven in shifting at appropriate times – and not shifting when I would not have. Outstanding. I want one.
In checking rpm at highway speed I was surprised to see that at a steady 60 it showed approx. 2000 rpm. Based on my reading (see links below) I expected 1600 rpm. Does anyone know if Sport Mode delays or de-activated TCC lockup?
The ride was a very pleasant surprise. In driving both S-Types and XJs I have not been as impressed as some others have been. The S-Type R has very aggressive rubber, with 35 series rear tires only 10 MM narrower than on the rear of a new Corvette. (275/35ZR18 Continental Conti Sports on the rear of this particular example.) I was absolutely amazed by the smooth, well controlled ride. No harshness anywhere except when I drove over the speed bumps at a local Mall perimeter road. And these are extreme speed bumps. Otherwise, it was better than I expected and very, very pleasant.
The handling was what I expected. I certainly did not stress the chassis or approach the cornering limits in my drive, nor do I in my typical public street driving. It went where pointed, at speeds sufficient to be interesting, with no drama and enjoyable precision. The steering feel is excellent. In a brief run up to over 80 mph on the highway, it was stable and smooth. This is a very competent and confidence inspiring chassis. This is no Town Car (I had one again as a loaner recently) - and this is a good thing.
The interior was quite comfortable for me. The driver’s seat is quite comfortable and supportive. Seat heater worked well – I would miss my cooled seats, but . . . If I decided to buy one like this with the Nav system, I would investigate the effect of the Nav install on the various controls for such things as climate control and radio, as I have seen some rather annoying ergonomic effects in other vehicles when the big Nav screen is added. But I just had the sales lady set the HVAC and I turned off the radio for the drive. And I still do not see $2K+ worth of value in any Nav system, for me. Only oddity I noticed was the adjustable center front armrest has only 2 postions – and is not as easy to set as in my LS. The gauges are clear and straightforward. In observing the tach as mentioned above, the needle shows a unique movement pattern - almost like an old mechanically driven tach. (See opening sequences of Grand Prix.)
I set the moonroof in full vent as soon as I started the car, as that is how I almost always drive my cars. Not a hint of wind noise or buffeting at any speed up to over 85 mph. Sweating the details pays off here.
Issues: Price. Now, I have driven 2 new Caddy STSs – a 1SE and a 1SF (aside from equipment levels, the primary performance related differences between these 2 are larger brakes, LSD and a significantly and noticeably more aggressive final drive ratio in the 1SF) – and the most comparable STS to this S-Type R would be the 1SG with the QAF Performance Handling Package at even a slightly higher MSRP. And even though the STS drives quite well indeed, if I were buying a car in this price range today, it would be the Jag. Full stop. No contest. I even found the S-Type to have slightly more leg room in the rear (sitting behind where I set the driver’s seat) than the STS, though the STS may have a bit more headroom. And, I also find it interesting that most other competitive sedans (from my viewpoint) (Audi RS6 – if it were still available, M5, MB E55) are priced over $70K.
Pros:
Motor / Trans.
Looks / Styling
Handling
Ride
Cons:
No Manumatic
No cooled seats
Price . . .
Wow. Did I mention that I want one?
Now, realistically, I would need to make some significant “lifestyle changes” to buy one of these Cats, even assuming a significant end-of-year discount. (Edmunds shows a “Marketing Support” MFR to Dealer incentive right now of $7,500 for a 2004 S-Type R.) So I am guessing that at about this time next year (assuming no drastic changes to our US economy), an ‘05 without Nav could be purchased for somewhere in the v. high $40s to v. low $50s. Hmmm . . .
But most telling is probably that this is the only sedan I have driven in 10 years that makes me even t
But most telling is probably that this is the only sedan I have driven in 10 years that makes me even think that such changes might (MIGHT) be worth looking at. And if my year end bonus comes in at 10 times what I expect. . .
The General Sales Manager offered me an “extended test drive”. Hmmmm . . .
Cheers,
- Ray
Pondering alternatives . . .
Links:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article- - _id=594&page_number=1
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?print_page=y§ion_- - id=31&article_id=594&page_number=1&preview=
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article- - _id=1893
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0207_jaguarstyper/
Being a "buy & hold" kind of car person, I'm keeping my manual LS for the forseeable future. You, on the other hand, move around a bit and give us lucid descriptions of why. Thank you.
However, if I ever choose to spend the kind of money the S-R costs (which is highly unlikely), I would really, really (really) expect it to continue providing the kind of performance you so eloquently describe for well in excess of 100K miles.
. . .without multiple "free" (but enormously time-consuming & intrusive) visits to the dealer to remedy warranty "issues."
. . .without huge expense for mission-critical hardware repair, after the warranty runs out. I'm more willing than most to do without extraneous crap that packs up (in fact, I usually don't want it in the first place), but have a lot of trouble tolerating engine or (especially) transmission problems, or anything else that renders the vehicle dead beside the road, or extremely uncomfortable (windows that fall down in cold and/or rainy weather, for example).
That said, keep the posts in the various boards coming. I can continue my Elmer Fudd approach to car ownership while living vicariously through you.
Good luck!
I share the concern about reliability.
Two things:
1 – I have confirmed that the Jag dealer does, in fact, provide a loaner for all service as long as the vehicle is under warrantee. Lost time / inconvenience is an issue for me.
2 – The quality of Jaguars appears to be improving. This link indicates that Jaguar certainly is expending significant time and effort and $$s in the persuit of quality. Although quality does not necessarily equate to (long term) reliabilioty – Jaguar certainly seems headed in the right direction. . .
http://www.jdpower.com/special/powerreport/jaguar/JaguarSPR.pdf
Cheers,
- Ray
Potential Jag owner . . .
If I did buy any car this expensive, I would likely become one.
- Ray
WELL aware of what frequent change costs . . .
(See my review from a couple of weeks ago - 20 minute drive of this same car.)
Input on what I should be watching for / should not miss = welcome.
Thanks,
- Ray
Resistance (may be) futile . . .
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/images/04jagxjbody.jpg
Future aluminum S-Type?
http://www.jaguarracing.wz.cz/Ruzne/s2007_2.jpg
http://forums.mg-rover.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15752
I think the grille of that car needs to be smaller but I like it a lot.