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Cadillac DeVille



  • Glad your back. Hope you feel better. This place just isn't the same w/o our "insider".

    Don't push yourself too hard. It's going to be a long hard flu season and people recovering from pneumonia are especially open to re-infection. Especially car dealers (;

  • I do realize that with any brand of luxury vehicle,the service wiil vary from city to city. But, keep in mind that I am referring to not one but two dealerships in a medium to large metropolitan area, which are shamefully inadequate and maddening enough to make this auto enthusiast change car brands!

    P.S. I have NO intention of tipping unless I get stellar service first. I will not reward subpar
  • Even if it turns out the same, you would be better off forgetting about getting some of the Holdback and getting more of the dealer cash.
  • Why is it so hard to "special order" a Cadillac? My dealers just seem to cry and moan if I want to special order a car, even the less than hot selling Eldorado. Is it allotments? Profits? Paperwork? The insistance to sell what is on the lot? They seem more willing to loose the sale than to special order a car, even a ETC!

    Please explain "Dealer Cash". Is this in addition to normal MSRP discounts? Lets say Invoice on a STS was $48k, MSRP was $52k and a normal good deal would be $48,600. If this car had a $5k dealer cash allowance, does that mean we would get it for $5k less? Or does dealer cash mean the dealer can provide a lower cost, better trade and make more profit, if he doesn't negoiate it all away? Please explain. Thanks.
  • Can anyone help me with more specifics on the reprogramming of the ecm for the rough idle problem. I am taking my 2000 in tomorrow for a couple of other things. Just spoke to the service department and they (he) wasn't aware of any fix yet. Is there a service bulletin number? Something? Anything?
  • Etharmon: That is the oddest combo I have heard of. That could be one of two things. It could be a new 99, but I doubt it. It would have cost the dealer a fortune in floorplan money to keep it around that long. The other could be a custom leahter job. I recently did one for a customer who wanted white leather in a deville. Costs about 3k to have it done, and it looks and feels just like the factory leather. The latter would be my guess.

    Philly: Glad to be back and out of my bed. A guy can only watch so much General Hospitol before losing his mind. ;)

    Carnought: That is a crying shame that the dealers are that bad. We ran into a problem about 4 years ago with the service manager. Customer comebacks (not fixed right the first time) was at a dealership high. The time it took for a basic repair was too long, and the service writers weren't starting to act like MB employees. We made a major change and are now ranked in the top 5 in the north central zone (about 6 states, roughly 400 dealers) My advice would be to ask to see the owner. Word of caution though, if you go in his office with a big chip on your shoulder, nothing will happen. If you go in with the attitude like you are just trying to help, it will work much better and he is more apt to listen. Telling the dealer you won't buy another vehicle from him because of service or lack thereof won't hurt either.

    Artmbgolf: You are 100% correct. Dealer cash goes to the dealer. It is not taxed, unlike customer rebates, because it comes off the price of the car. The dealer is not obligated in anyway to pass this along to you however. I like to use a part of it to lower the cost of a new car and the rest to increase the amount I give you for your vehicle. Edmunds always seems too high on their appraisals! If the car invoices for 48k and there is 5k dealer cash, the car now costs 43k. If there is no trade, I usually give it all to the customer.
  • They been showing a new Cadillac commercial for two weeks or three now. They had maybe like 5 or 6 DTSs (maybe more) racing side by side in a desert. All the cars are Neutral Shale. Have anyone seen the neat commercial? It was advertise with at the conclusion.
  • The commercial you are referring to is a contest that Cadillac is sponsoring in a virtual swim meet between 5 legendary Olympic athletes. The meet is being held during the close of the games on 10/1, I believe. You can enter on the Cadillac home page by clicking in the lower right corner. It seems a little silly to me, but then again an Olympian I am not.
  • The White on red STS was the first time I had seen one of the current model in that combo(it wasn't on a dealer's lot, I just saw it parked at the mall). According to the brochures I have the red(mulberry) was an interior color option on 98s and 99s. I'll agree, it is rare as that was only the second time I have seen a current model Seville with this interior color. The first was about a year ago and it was the red with a black exterior. I have yet to see one with the blue interior as this too was offered in 98 and 99. Most that I see have either neutral shale or pewter and I've seen a few black on black STSs. My guess is that both of the "rare" combo cars that I have seen were special ordered and not from dealer stock.
  • Will I be able to file a suit against My dealer??
    In March 2000, I purchased a preowned 1999 Etc in white diamond/neutral shale cream puff with only 5,400 mi. I paid $34,000. This was a GM BUY BACK that the dealer said the previous owner returned because the water would enter around the door seals and not to worry because all of the seals had been replaced, he also said he believed the previous buyer had a case of buyers remorse & didnt want the car. The sales rep assured me I still have the 4,yr 50,000 mi, warranty, & not to worry. when i signed the deal, he also handed me a brochure from gm that states it has 12 mo/ 12,000 mi. warranty in addition to the 4yr 50,00mi warranty for added protection. I am very very up set that on one of your posts you stated that buy backs onlyhave 12 mo. warranty!!! DID my sales rep LIE!!!!??? What is even more ironic is that this is my first new car and when i signed the deal my mother had video taped the entire transaction for a memory as my first nice car, We recorded the sales rep clearly maintaining i also would get the 4 yr 50,000 mi warranty!! I need you professional advice !! thanks DAn
  • You must be the center of attention among us Cadillac enthusiasts. I have a question.

    Lets say someone is making payments on a 60 month car note for three years now and that person wants to get a new or pre-own car. What if you want to buy or lease a preown automobile regardless if you still making notes on the current car, will the dealership pay off that trade in vehicle for you and it was added on the other payment on this new vehicle that you lease/buy? How does that system of transaction work when it comes to stuff like that? For example, lets say I saw a pretty preown '95 Eldorado ETC that has 54,000 miles on it with every option in the book and the asking price was $21,000. I own a car I am making payments on currently. Will the dealership pay off the post balance (exact amount without finance charge and APR that is deleted) to the financial lien or am I better off paying that car in full or until my very last car note to think about another car? After the dealership pay off my current car, will they put that buy-out figure from the current car (trade-in car) to the potential ETC purchase? How does that work? You can tell that I never done this before. Does it work the same way with leasing also or is it different? What about the same situation with a new 2001 model never driven?
  • Lehr597: When a vehicle is a GM buyback, you must have signed a paper stating it was such. Read through that very carefully. Somewhere in there is where it states the warranty is 12months / 12,000. If you didn't sign something, and I assure you, I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the vehicle will be covered by either the dealership or GM for 48 months/ 50k miles. Honestly, It has been so long since I have seen the paperwork (about 2 years), I can't remember what it looks like. BTW, that tape might come in handy.

    Sweetjeldorado: When ever you trade in a vehicle, that amount gets deducted from the selling price of the new or used one. When you have a balance, it gets added back to the total. For instance:

    selling price: 30,000
    trade: 10,000
    difference: 20,000
    payoff: 9,000
    total to finance: 29,000

    Payoff always gets added after applicable tax. When you lease a vehicle, it work no differently unless you have the vehicle paid off. There are actually a number of different ways to do this depending on what state you live in. In Illinois for example, let's say the customer wants a one pay lease (Make all payments up front, saves some interest), and he has a trade worth $25,000. The total of his payments are $23,000. I cut him a check for 2 grand. Sometimes a customer wants to receive some money back from his trade. This can also be done. You simply buy his car outright, separate from the lease deal, and give him a check for the difference between the down payment and the appraisal of his car. Leasing affords many different ways to go about the trade "problem" Buying the new or used one is pretty much cut and dry.
  • Lot's of good info on the 2000/2001 devilles. Any experiences with a 98 concours? I looked at one today, 43,000 miles. Salesman said would go for 'around' $24,500. Did not get in to serious negotiations yet. Does this sound like fair price? Anyone knowledgeable on the 98's? BTW, I'm 42. Not an old fart yet.
  • I bought a 98 concours with 29,000 miles in January 2000 for 26,900 . Sounds like a reasonable price to me.

  • I need a little more info. What geographical location do you live in? I have a 98 moonstone with 29k miles and can't find a buyer at $24,000. And the car is perfect. Still in the wrapper as they say. FYI, if I had to appraise this vehicle in the Chicagoland area, I would say somewhere around 18 grand because of the miles. Other considerations: add a little for a moonroof, deduct for simcon top, add for white diamond or black, deduct for gold firemist. If you tell me more about the car, I can better help you. Jeff
  • That's 'cause moonstone sucks! (just ribbin' ya!)
  • tamcotamco Posts: 40
    Jeff, Sorry to har you were under the weather, glad you are back. As for your interest in the 2001 DHS ...speedo now approaching 3000 miles absolutely not problems nor concerns. Handle winding, twisty Wisconsin rural roads and hills, it as if it is grabbing the road with "claws." Acceleration surprises even so called sports cars. This may be the best car that I have every driven. Surely a joy to drive. While you were out if it there was some discussion on Air Filters...E/M.. seems as if there is not filter available for the 2000/2001 Nothstar, tho someone has suggested that a filter from 1999 Northstar could be used. Do you have any info on E/M filter swaps? Can the 275hp Northstar in th 2001 DHS be re-tuned to get the 300hp obtained in the DTS??? Glad you are back! TAMCO
  • tamcotamco Posts: 40
    Sorry my mind was not fully awake this AM. I gave you bad info regarding filters. Not E/M filters but K/N filters. You may want to review post #485 onSun Sept 10th 2000 under CADILLAC SEVILLE opic #3472TAMCO
  • The 275 HP LD8 motor outperforms the 300 HP L37 until about 4500 RPM. The detailed curves are at
  • Don't forget that at least in the STS + ETC, the axle ratio of the 300HP is 3.71 to 3.11, or something close to that. This also improves acceleration of the 300HP cars.
  • I live in the memphis area. The one I am looking at is moonstone also. no moonroof, no simcon. supposedly a lease return. appears to be basic concours. (unfortunately, the MB dealership next door has a 95 vette w/15K miles for same price. extreme opposite but very tempting) Any info or feedback on the concours would be appreciated.
  • That 98 Moonstone Concours for 24,000 is tempting. While I would prefer an Eldo or Seville, I could settle for a Concours. Especially if it is Crimson Pearl or Black. Next year when the lease on my Intrigue is up, I will probably buy a used Cadillac. Probably 98 or newer. Just curiuos, what are 98 STSs and ETCs with "average" mileage going for now?
  • I have found a used 2000 Deville that I'd like to buy. However, I have noticed a slight (and I mean slight) separation in the bumper from the front fenders on both sides of the front of the car, (near the headlights). I can push the bumper up from the bottom which alleviates the separation. Is that a normal "give" in the bumper on the 2000 Deville, or am I thinking about buying a car that has been in an accident? There is no evidence of an accident, other than marks way down at the bottom of the bumper (the black flap at the very bottom). didn't note anything, either. Thoughts???
  • I have a 2000 DTS with 5,000 miles. The cruise control on/off switch on the steering wheel has broke. It won't stay on. Dealer said I was the second one that day and it could take 30 days to get the replacement.
  • This Tuesday I had my cruise control switch replaced on my 2000 DHS. It took a little longer than usual for the part to come in - about a week and a half. Not bad though.

    Still looking for specific information about the rough idle fix. I asked again when I picked my car up and the service advisor said they don't have anything on it. Tccad1, can you help? If so, I probably would not tip you, but would be very grateful...
  • Justlooking11: Carfax doesn't report accidents. Insurance companies will not report to them. All Carfax reports is title and odometer discretions (flood, rebuilt, spun back mileage, etc.) The easy way to tell if a car has been in a front end accident is to run your finger along the hood line in the underside near the windshield. If you feel a rough line, the hood has been painted. To confirm this, look around the rubber moldings near the headlights. Even the best body shop cannot possibly tape off the car perfectly. Another place to check is the bolts holding the fender on. If the bolt has been removed, odds are it was in an accident. On every manufacturer, they paint the inside of the engine compartment after it has been fully assembled. Bolts and all. The bolts should look like an outlet cover after painting a wall without removing it first with the paint "gluing" them on.

    Pfergy: I would have to say that the midwest region is similiar in their pricing. Lack of Cadillac dealers in your area will increase price based on availability, but it sounds a bit too high to me. However, price is a relative thing. If you like the price on that car, what is the difference? People ask me what I am "making" on a used car. I assume they want the best deal. If I own a car for $1, does that mean I have to pass the savings on? The best price on any car is one you can be happy about. Still sounds too high though..=)

    Philly: Mine has the oatmeal interior w/ Moonstone paint. My guess would be that we are going to be celebrating a one year anniversary on this car.

    Tamco: Thanks for the concern. Doctor gave me a clean bill of health the other day. About the K/N airfilters and 00 motors. I don't think there is an official replacement for it yet. I ran in back to check on a few different models, and the air filter compartment looks to be the exact same in a 99 compared to the 2000. As for bumping up the horsepower, be careful. Anything you do to the computer that is aftermarket will void the warranty. I am speaking about adding performance chips and such. Better off leaving it alone. The difference really isn't that great.

    Etharmon: 98 STS's are in the lower 30's. Eldos are in the high 20's. Eldos seem to hold their line fairly well because of availibility on the used car lots. Not alot of them around.

    ashur1: I just ran downstairs and asked the service director about the rough idle. Here is the official word. There is no fix. Rumor has it, Cadillac knows and is working on it, but there is no bulletin. What we have been doing, depending on severity of the problem is replacing teh crankshaft sensors. That seems to help a little bit. Any other monkeying with the system throws off the emissions. As soon as I hear about a fix, I can email you if you post it here.

    A note about Carfax: Read this carefully. Carfax is a WASTE of money. What they tell you can be received by any DMV around. For free usually. Besides, if a dealer sells you a vehicle that has a mileage discrepancy, whether you notice it after 10 days or 10 years, they must under penalty of law, by the vehicle back for the full selling price. It is VERY illegal to sell a vehicle with an odometer problem whether known or unknown. Somewhere to the tune of 10 years in jail and up to $100,000 fines. Then the state comes in and essentially ends your business until they audit every single deal over the past 5 - 6 years. Most problems are found out before they even hit the car lot anyway. And we go back after the original owner hard. I have called a customer and told him he needs to cut me a check for $5,000 on the spot. He refused and said it was my problem now. I politely told him to call his lawyer when he gets back to his office. He was on my doorstep at 9 am the next morning with a check in hand. Mileage problems are nothing to fool with. The other service Carfax provides for is branded titles. It is not illegal to sell these vehicles, however, you have the right to physically see the title before you take final delivery. If the dealer cannot produce the title, politely state that you will not take delivery until you can see it. In most states, it is illegal to sell a vehicle without having title on hand anyway. In every state, there is a spot marked "special notes" or something to that effect. There are about 5 different messages that can be written in there. If the see something odd like flood, rebuilt, or not actual miles, run. Again, if you take delivery of a vehicle that has a branded title, and you didn't sign something stating that you knew it was such, drive it for a few years and return it to the dealer for a full refund. I had an unfortunate situation where a customer had an 88 Porsche 944. Beautiful car. Perfect condition, no paint work anywhere. I appraised it for $8,000. Strong money for the miles it had and no turbo. The customer came in with the title and it was marked rebuilt. I then had to tell him the car was now worth $1,500. As it turns out, it was a mistake by the DMV and got marked incorrectly because someone had bad penmanship. Clean title came back, and everyone was happy. That shows you how much us dealers don't want to have to deal with a branded title. Sorry that got so winded, but I had to let you know my two cents.
  • How hard do Cadillacs get hit by depreciation? If a 2000 DeVille were being traded in say w/ 11,000 miles, could it seriously be worth $ 10,000. less than when new? Is that excessive depreciation? Would say a Mercedes take the same kind of hit? Do luxury cars in general take a harder hit than other segments?
  • Luxury cars get hit harder because they are more expensive, but it isn't what you think. The average car, whether it is a caddy, cavalier, or a mercedes, will lose about 50% over 3 years. About 40% comes in the first two years. If a caddy lists for 50,000, you lost 25,000 in 3 years. A cavalier lists for 12,000, you only lost 6,000. Therefore, it is more cost effective to drive the cheapest car you can. However egos and creature comforts tend to play a LARGE factor in what we drive. The typical 2000 deville with average equipment will be worth, to a dealer, around 31k with those kind of miles. Retail side should bring about 33-34 grand on a 42,800 msrp car. Any car will take that kind of depreciation because of market conditions. If I had a brand new car and one that has 11,000 miles on it for 500 dollars different, which would you choose? I would want the new for only $500 more. What if the difference was $3,000? Now the used makes more sense. Our job as dealers is to anticipate what the average consumer will accept as a "good" deal on a current year car. So, after taking out holdback, any rebates, and the dollar amount that is appropriate to make the used car seem attractive, you tend to lose alot of money in the first month.
  • Don't get me wrong, I love my car, but my friend said that his 2000 Mercedes will depreciate less than my Cad at the end of a year with equal miles on the clock. Are you saying that his will depreciate the same percentages as mine? One thing that could influence depreciation here on Cad vs Mercedes is that most yuppies who can't afford 50k new will look for a used BMW or M-B & not even think of a generally speaking, is the demand for M-B gonna adjust the depreciation so that you loose less on a Benz? Could that be generalized across the country?
  • Sadly, your freind is right. MBs do have a lower rate of depreciation. In general, domestic cars depreciate more and quicker than do German or Japanese cars. Cadillacs do however, retain their value better than most domestic cars do and a heck of alot better than Lincolns do. Alot of it is image. With MB, alot of what you are paying for is the name. Sure they are good cars, but not worth the price they cost. For example, a V6 E320 is nearly $50,000. You can get a V8 STS for that and the STS has more interior room and more standard features.
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