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Cadillac DeVille



  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I did not have any problems with dexcool in my 98 Aurora or my 2002 Seville. The one thing that is important is to monitor the coolant levels and have any loss of coolant checked out and repaired quickly. Adding coolant without finding out the reason for the lost fluid may result in the problems that you are raving about.
  • My 1999 Cadillac is just back from the dealer after a $5.0 K cylinder head replacement job at 63,000 miles after always having been regularly maintained by a Cadillac dealer. This is a design/material/assembly problem that was built into the engine the day it left the production line. Instead of standing behind their product,Cadillac is hiding behind their warranty. Cadillac offers no relief of any kind since the car is "out of Warranty" Is there a class action lawsuit on this product deficiency that I can join. Any help will be appreciated.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    You said 'cylinder head replacement job', but I bet you mean a head gasket job.

    Nope, no class action I know of.

    Why don't you find a law firm and get one started?

    Head gasket failures are a very well known failure for Northstar engines.
  • ladymyladyladymylady Posts: 21
    Somewhere I saw an article that 28 states have lawsuits against GM concerning various problems "caused by dexcool" but here's todays
    from Detroit Press/Aftermarket News:

    E-mail the AMN editor Amy Antenora

    Ruling is Near on GM Engine Coolant: Class Action Sought over Dex-Cool
    In Wednesday, May 24, 2006 Issue, Category:OE News
    Printer-friendly version

    E-mail this article

    Subscribe to aftermarketNews
    Posted: May 24, 2006, 9 a.m., EST

    From Detroit Free Press

    A federal judge may soon rule whether General Motors Corp. will face a national class action suit accusing GM of selling millions of vehicles with a faulty coolant.

    The suits stem from GM's use of Dex-Cool, a coolant it first introduced in its vehicles in 1995 and sold in more than 35 million cars and trucks between 1995 and 2004. According to GM, 14 federal and state lawsuits seeking class-action status have been filed against GM over a variety of engine problems linked to Dex-Cool.

    Customers have complained of problems ranging from small coolant leaks to complete radiator and engine failure. Court documents show that GM has received tens of thousands of repair requests related to Dex-Cool and engine gaskets in the affected models and considered recalls for some models.

    The company has issued several technical bulletins to its dealers about cooling-related problems in the engines, but says it prefers to handle customer complaints on a case-by-case basis.

    When GM introduced the orange-colored Dex-Cool, it said in owners manuals that Dex-Cool could last up to five years or 100,000 miles without being replaced, and later extended Dex-Cool's life to 150,000 miles. Dex-Cool uses a different set of chemicals to protect engine parts than traditional green-colored coolant, which requires more frequent replacement, and GM was the first U.S. automaker to use it.

    Attorneys for the owners say that clause means GM should repair any Dex-Cool-related problems, even if they crop up outside the engine's typical three-year or 36,000-mile engine warranty.

    "What we're looking for is to have GM step up and honor its warranty obligation," said Eric Gibbs, a San Francisco attorney and one of the lead lawyers for the owners. "There's a significant public interest in this problem, no question about that."

    GM claims that the owners manual clause was not a warranty, but a service interval. In its court filings, the automaker says Dex-Cool "has performed without problems in the vast majority of GM vehicles."

    "The recent motion to certify a class action is unfortunate," said GM spokeswoman Geri Lama, "and the situation with our customers has been grossly overstated through unsubstantiated allegations in statements which have not been proven in court and will be vigorously defended."

    Six of the federal lawsuits have been consolidated in a federal court in East St. Louis, IL, U.S. District Judge G. Patrick Murphy could rule at any time whether the cases, which have about 100 named plaintiffs, should be granted class-action status, meaning they could represent millions of former and current GM owners.

    Three similar lawsuits has been filed in Canada, while a state lawsuit in Missouri has already won class-action status, a decision GM is appealing.

    The troubles blamed on Dex-Cool range from leaking coolant to blown engines, and often include failed intake manifold gaskets, pieces that rest between the engine block and the air intake to prevent coolant and oil from leaking. Replacing a gasket usually runs about $700, but a bad gasket can cause enough damage that the engine has to be replaced.

    Mixing Dex-Cool with another coolant can cause other problems, and GM doesn't recommend using other coolants in Dex-Cool engines, although some mechanics do swap coolants.

    About 110 complaints of coolant leaks in the GM vehicles targeted by the lawsuit have been filed with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, according to a Free Press review. The agency rejected a call for a defect investigation in 2002, saying the problems weren't safety related and was therefore outside its purview.

    Many of the complaints say the problems appear to begin around 60,000 miles, well beyond the engine's warranty but sooner than many customers believe they should have problems with their cooling systems. A few have been reported as early as 20,000 miles.

    Mark Reynolds, a radiator repair shop owner in San Carlos, CA, says he sees one or two GM vehicles a week with Dex-Cool problems. A typical repair requires flushing the cooling system and in some cases taking the radiator apart.

    "It's a shame -- vehicles in their fourth or fifth year with this awful, gooey mud attacking the top of the radiator cap and fouling up the radiator," he said.

    GM has argued against certifying the lawsuit as a class action, noting that state courts in Michigan and California have already turned down similar lawsuits. It contends that the plaintiffs want to represent past and present owners who don't have any problems, and that they "complain of just about everything that can go wrong with a vehicle, attributing every bit of it to Dex-Cool."

    Lama said if a GM customer has a problem beyond the warranty, GM has a process for dealing with it through its dealers.

    "The first priority of General Motors and its dealers is helping our customers," Lama said.
  • bremertongbremertong Posts: 436
    Thank you very much for your post! While I recently traded my 2004 Deville for a 2006 DTS, I appreciate the fact that important information like this is posted at this site as it will be most helpful to current owners. I have been surprised that these valuable owners forums don't have more posts regarding potentially important issues relating to the overall ownership experiences and issues.
  • 04cad04cad Posts: 131
    Anyone seeing any deals on 2006 or 2007 DTS's with low miles on dealer lots in the midwest? I have heard there won't be as many low mileage program cars available due to rentals being limited and GM executive vehicles being kept for longer periods driving up the mileage. Not many low mileage DTS's on dealer's lots in southern Indiana. :cry:
  • scoatwscoatw Posts: 1
    My father-in-law is having a problem with his battery draining. The shop told him that it was coming from his load leveler. So the mechanic disconnected the load leveler. Dad wants to know if he puts heavy duty shocks on the car if he can keep the load levelers disconnected.
  • 04cad04cad Posts: 131
    Do a search on this forum. I think there was a reply earlier that talked about doing away with the special shocks on some models and replacing them with normal shocks and disabling the ride light on the dash. You might even ask your local parts store if they have ever been involved with a customer doing this. Good luck.
  • sotelosotelo Posts: 1

  • 04cad04cad Posts: 131
    I wonder if the main reason for a lawsuit involving ten year old engines is the potential lawyer fees? I wouldn't think any car maker would have much liability for engine problems on vehicles that old? Good luck anyway.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I have to agree. If a ten year old car is worth $3700 to fix, and you get a few more years of use out of it, then you are getting some value for your money. I think that one should consider a ten year old car basically fully depreciated (if you bought it new, or nearly new). Ten year old cars are going to need repairs.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    I'm not sure there actually is a class action lawsuit. I've never heard of one.

    I think this message got started when someone said there 'should' be a class action lawsuit.

    And, it isn't just 10 year old cars with head gasket problems. Northstars from 1993 until at least 2000 have head gasket problems. Maybe even later ones.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The first generation northstar (1993 through 1999) had some design issues that may have been corrected in the redesign for the 2000 model year. I don't know what the problem is with the head gasket, but I wonder if part of the problem is related to water pump failure. Water pumps do not work for the life of the engine, and the northstar water pumps would usually need fixed after about 50,000 to 75,000 miles. Usually the owner of the car will have an engine that overheats, which is the first clue that the water pump is not working. The northstar engine is not harmed by overheating, but the head gaskets may be stressed and, if there were any flaws, may start leaking.

    But my point was that any car that is 10 years old should be expected to have problems.
  • Also, it seems low coolant is another clue. Northstars cooling systems with dex don't seem to be as tolerant of this.

    When I gas up, I try to make a point to check my coolant and oil on my 04 Deville. Also, I had the coolant changed when I bought it just in case. So far, so good.

  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I think it is best to check the coolant level when the engine is cold. But in any case, when you see a change in the level, it is wise the find out why.

    The basic problem is that the northstar is an aluminum engine, and leaking coolant is bad for corrosion. Dexcool may be worse in a leaking system that other coolants, but other coolants are not good with aluminum either.
  • I'm seriously considering downsizing from my Suburban to a 99 Deville now that I have a few less kids around. I'm tired of driving a truck, and looking for a smoother ride with better gas mileage. Can anyone offer any tips on what to check or what to expect in major repairs? I am looking for something in the 25-50K miles range.
  • 04cad04cad Posts: 131
    What are you looking to spend? 2005 Devilles are available if you look around, for around $20,000. for 34,000 mile cars still under warranty. Don't forget Cadillac has the 50k mile 48 month (I think those are the numbers) warranty standard instead of the 36 month 36k and if it is certified, I think it qualifies for the new longer powertrain warranty. They ride great, look great, get decent mileage especially on the highway, and if you are thinking of buying used are priced right. Good luck :)
  • 2000-2005's use regular gas. They run great on 87 and will not carbon up as easily. I have a 2005 and am very pleased with it. 26 mpg. on highway. Smooth and powerful.
  • I'm looking to buy a 99. In my opinion this is the last year that has the classic Cadillac look. And, you can get nice one of these with 34k miles for about 10,000.00.
  • I am thinking about getting a 96 Cadillac Deville with 165,000 on it from a friend of mine. He says that the guy he got it from was driving it 3 days ago and all of a sudden it won't shift into 3rd or overdrive gears. Says the tranny fluid looks good but I think it could be the filter. Does anybody else have any suggestions???
  • 04cad04cad Posts: 131
    Those were nice cars for their time. I believe they do need premium gas? You could probably get a 2002 or 2003 low mileage for just a little more and I believe they use regular gas. Have you driven a newer Deville? There is a noticeable difference in even the 2005 to the 2007s, and the 2005s drive very nice. Good luck whichever way you go.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    I doubt it will be something as simple as the filter. I think the filter is actually a cleanable metal screen.

    It's probably one or both shift solonids inside the tranny. The parts are relatively inexpensive (both should be changed if the repair is made), but the tranny will have to be opened up to get to them.

    I 'think' the motor does not have to be pulled to get to these. Just opening it up from the bottom, they can be accessed.

    If it is one of these solonids, it should be setting an error code. This code can be read out and it will point to the solonids. Otherwise, it might be something else.

    There is a third solonid. Known as 'the $40 part buried $2,000 deep in the tranny'. This one activates the lock-up on the torque converter. A failure on it will set a different error code. The reason it is so expensive - the motor and tranny have to be pulled in order to be able to disassemble the tranny enough to get to this one.

    Find someone to read the error code, and can tell you what they mean.
  • If I get a Haynes book, will this tell me how to change thoes solonids? And do you know how much these solonids cost or even what the name of them is? I don't think that I am losing out on this deal. I am trading a 95 Dodge Neon for it with about 166,000mi on it. I just don't want to end up putting lots of money into this car. I have been reading about the Dexcool stuff on this site. Should I change the coolant in this car if I do get it???
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    I've never liked anything but factory service manuals. I would bet a Haynes will say 'Transmission service is beyond the scope of this manual. See an experienced service person for this area.'

    Look on ebay for a set (2 books) of service manuals. Probably should go for about $50. A new set can be bought at . Factory manuals will cover tranny dis-assembly.

    P.S. It's a Cadillac. You could spend LOTS of money on it!

    P.P.S. If you don't know the service history on the car, I would change the coolant. Look at the belts, there is a small one that drives the water pump off the rear of the left cam.
  • Well I went and took a look at it yesterday and I didn't like what I seen. I have been working on cars for about 12 years and if I have to take the tranny apart in the engine compartment, I ain't gettin it. Other besides that the car was in great shape and it had 154000mi in it. New water pump and belt. Thanks for the input on this car. I think that I am going to stick with my Neon. Thank you Bolivar.
  • the blog I have been reading was written a year ago, but its getting really close to what I am looking for. I wrote down the manuel info and will look in a few. But I need the speed-in-put sensor inside the trans........I'll do both trans sensors. any info on this problem. over 165,000 and really running great other than that.rebeccat
  • I have a 96 deville.One of the sensors inside the trans is messin up... It has been diagnosed as the speed input sensor.I was checking this sight to see if anyone else had sim prob...Some I read was from 2006....sooooooo. I need to replace it. I also know there are 2 diff in trans,, I plan to do both,,, tokeep from haveing to repeat a expensive repair. I hope not to mess with the rest of the trans. Car has over 165,000,,,All else seems to work well...Does anyone have experence with this repair? and have advise..rebeccat
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    Well, I think this is the dreaded '$40 part buried $2,000 deep in the transmission'. The error code is something like a 720 or 721 or something like this.

    The transmission (and ususally they pull the motor and tranny together) has to be pulled to get to this solonid. This solonid locks up the torque converter. So, the car usually can be driven, your milage will just suffer because it is not locking the converter up after 45mph or so.

    The other two solonids, shift solonids, known at the A and B solonids, are easier to get to and do not require the removal of the tranny. And yes, if you do go into the tranny to get the VSS/speed sensor one, you should also replace the A and B shift ones.
  • gerardkgerardk Posts: 1
    Looking for some sage advice from experienced Cadillac type. Decided to buy a used Cadillac, wanted a Northstar engine. Decided on 2000 because they made improvements to the motor. Regular gas, redesign etc. Assuming it makes sense to get 2000 vs. earlier due to motor advances?

    Can get equally good deal on a Deville DTC or Eldorado ETC. I prefer the classic body style of the Eldorado and would have to get use to the look of the new style Deville. Like the taillights on the Deville but the front end is different. Also, age 46, only me and the wife and a small dog, no kids.

    Is it just a question of looks and desired style or is the redesigned body on the Deville model for 2000 significant enough that I would notice the difference in quality, ride, or performance?

    Bottom line is I could learn to like the looks of the Deville body style if the drive experience was significantly different over the traditional chassis on the Eldorado. I prefer the looks of the Eldorado but do not want to give up too much for that style preference. Hence lies the dilemma.

    Thanks in Advance.
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