Saab 9-5 Sedan
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More comments about my '00 V6 wagon. I had test driven the V6 before purchase, but when I picked it up, I immediately had to drive it several hundred miles for a trip. I noticed right away that at idele, it seemed unusually loud, but ever since that first day, it has never seemed loud again, and I sitch in and out of a couple of different cars regularly.
I agree with bretfraz that the torque band is very useable. When cruising on the highway whatever speed I wish to go just seems to already be in place before I make the effort. The acceleration at higher speeds seems relatively effortless.
Recently, I've been considering purchasing another car to replace my '87 Volvo 740 wagon (166,000 miles and absoltuely reliable - a tank) with something more modern, so I have spent time looking at the S80 again and drove the 528i.
My opinion is that I'd be tempted to get another 9-5, though some other part of my brain says to have 2 DIFFERENT cars. Well, my current wagon and maybe an Aero sedan. My observations are that I find the interior appearance to be superior. The instrument locations and tactile response is pleasing. The S80 seems bland, and to me the straigt interior lines of the BMW dash with the red displays seems utilitarian. Plus no in-dash cd player. The 528 is quiet and has excellent road manners, though in a way it is too quiet - can't really hear the engine, and that engine is much more pleasing in the 328i. The 528i just doen't have enough ooomph, though I look at the speedo and sure 'nuff I am moving right along. I would think the 540i would be more satisfying, but then the price - OUCH!
Frankly I also think the Saab back seat comfort is the best of these vehicles, and this is an area where I think the wagon beats the sedan - the backseat headrests in the wagon are useful and enhance seating comfort, whereas to actually rest my head on the sedans headrests means staring more up than straight - at least for my spine's eccentricities.
I'm not actually going to purchase another car right now, but I think I'd get a red or silver V6 or Aero sedan.
(I've got the sun green wagon).
I drove away feeling like if I had to do that regularly, I'd get different tires. Was in America's Discount Tire store recently and disussed this when they recommended Michelin Pilots, which a few days later I noticed were fitted to 3 9-5 Aero sedans on a dealer's lot.
Interesting comment on the Pilots. I've been satisfied with the MXV4's but I will consider the Pilots if I ever need to replace the tires.
Now that I've spoken up, I'll be expecting another attack against me. I'll try to refrain from futher comment though. Hard as it will be.
The seats - - I am not overly sensitive in this area but I think the seats are easy to get into, sit in and adjust and they are very comfortable for me. I am just under 6 foot so that might have impact on my comfort perception. I did like my previous aero seats because they looked interesting in design and there was more a sense of lateral support. If Aero seats were available I hope they don't do two tone or leather and suede mixed. The new Audi seats that are available like that look a bit tacky and flashy. Also I don't know if Saab has concerns with certain seat designs and the presence of side airbags in the seats.
Also just as an FYI the back seat headrests on the sedan do adjust fore and aft. I don't think most people realize that when they pull them up and they snap into the first position. Push the button in and you can adjust them further forward to your liking.
I have noticed that I prefer 89 octane over 93 or 94 for the V6. My switch was based on input from my service manager/tech. I noted that the tone of the car under acceleration changes and there is no detectable difference in performance.
Also I am please to hear your car is perfect and the ACC is a non-issue. Gee maybe you have a Troll under the hood. ;-)
The SAAB USA site has been updated for the 2001 model year. SAAB USA has also launched the SAAB Pacific Coast Adventure - details can be found on the SAAB USA homepage.
Think about it, I generally post a lot of open and honest (and negative) comments about my 9-5, and you must have spent hours creating your last long post to try to discredit me. Many of your posts taken from me say nothing in the context that you listed them, and you appear to have intentionally taken most of them (which in most cases were responses to the discrediting personal attacks) out of context to try to continue the discrediting campaign.
As I said, the Host has the authority to "disinvite" anyone who is being disruptive to this group. I would think carefully about making another negative personal attack in violation of the Edmunds terms of service. As for making negative comments about the 9-5, although you and others here find those comments "disruptive" to YOUR personal saablover tastes, the comments are accurate and facilitate a discussion of both sides of the saab story for prospective customers.
While I don't have the numbers in front of me, I recall that the manual has different minimum octane recommendations for the LPT 4 and 6, with the V6's being higher. (My book doesn't cover the Aero.)
I had assumed the difference was because of the V6's slightly higher compression ratio, but maybe it's something else (emission specs?). The T7 system will protect the engine from any harm due to detonation, so we could probably get away with running Coleman fuel ;-) IIRC the LPT turbo doesn't even have a bypass or wastegate, so detonation protection is left to retarding spark timing, which T7 can perform instantaneously in individual cylinders.
In the HPT APC cars, the octane rating was effectively a "dial-a-boost" system. Higher octane gas yielded higher boost. I'll bet it's still that way with the 9-5 Aero.
From the ealier chatter here by many, it sounds like the A6 with a upgraded engine is a good way to go in the future. The A6 model that CU tested was $38,000 but I do not think that it had the upgrated engine. How does the "regular" A6 engine compare to the 9-5 V6 in horsepower and torque?
The outspoken critic(s) here do provide informative feedback. In some topics, the dissatisfied owners offer nothing more than Brand-X sucks or name-calling towards those who don't go dump their sure-to-be-lemon right away. Believe, I've seen it all... This topic is fortunate enough to have, for the most part, reasonable guests. Some, at times, have taken it a little too far...
As I've said in the past, critical feedback is welcome with discretion. Why do I need to say this about critical feedback and not positive advice? Well... These make-exclusive forums tend to attract a majority of satisfied owners or potential owners. Many of the owners are aware of problems areas and will address them with new guests in a more or less objective fashion. It's not necessary to bombard each new guest with a checklist of problem areas.
Just the same, critical feedback offered with *discretion* is welcome. As long as that is the case, personal attacks toward these individuals will not be tolerated.
The MXV4's are an excellent "luxury" touring tire. It's perfect for cars like Lexus, M-B, Lincoln, Cadillac, Volvo, etc. Its tread design provides a very quiet highway ride with good traction in typical "4-season" driving conditions. If you have a luxury foreign sedan and want a tire that can be used year 'round for most all conditions, the MXV4 is ideal. I can't think of a better tire; comparable but not better.
The Pilot series are all-season performance tires. Much stronger construction especially in the sidewalls. Not as quiet, smooth, or long-lasting as the MXV4 but better performance. Ideal for Saab, BMW, Infiniti, or other cars that are considered performance-oriented. You can run them in winter but they won't work as good as a typical touring tire. Also expensive to replace. A Pilot XGTV4 or Z4 is perfect for the owner that wants better handling from his 9-5 regardless of engine. Some Infiniti Q45 lovers I know exclusively use the XGTV4 as its the only tire that will stay round and maintain steering quality on the Q45; a notorious tire killer. These guys have ditched other brands by 10K because those tires are out of alignment, flat spotted, or showing considerable wear. On another car those other brands would be fine but not on a Q45. This is probably not the case on a 9-5 but something to consider when buying new tires.
Let me echo bretfraz's sentiment here. 3 of my last 4 cars came with Z-rated Michelin Pilots and they are great tires. However, they do wear out quickly on quick cars (mine were all high-pressure turbo Volvos which shred tires in no time at all if you have a heavy foot) and they can be very expensive to replace. I also used Pirelli P-Zeros as a replacement tire and by comparison they weren't as sure footed in wet conditions (was living in Boston at the time) but did seem to last a bit longer. My Pilots did so well that I managed to get by without Winter tires for years in Boston with absolutely no problems at all (of course FWD and traction control helped a lot). I also tried Dunlop SP 8000s if I recall correctly, but dumped them after a few days as they were loud and didn't handle crisply in the corners.
There are lots of great choices out there and some really are in the same ball park for less money (e.g., Nittos). Also, if money is no object, you might want to look at the new Michelin Pilot Sport tires. These are Michelin's new flagship max performance tires designed for wet and dry conditions. You can find out more information and buy the tire of your choice through sites like www.tirerack.com (very informative and well designed site for a firm with a great reputation for mail order tires or www.discounttire.com (probably the best free replacement tire guarantee around).
Quattro is a great option on the 2.8 and it is standard on the 2.7T.
To me, the Audi A6 is not an attractive car from the back end. I always think of the Impala cop car when I see the Audi from the back.
Also having owned Audi's in the past I do believe that the A6 has lost some of its uniqueness. I think it started with my A4. This movement to the more traditional benchmark has resulted in larger sales. However that is probably why I continue to wish that SAAB not become a mass appeal car.
Also - that whole Audi atmosphere concept is a bit of an overkill. It has resulted in a silver exterior car only being available with the blackest of graphite leather interiors (even the carpets are almost black). Please - keep the wood choices and door panel mixes simple and make the darn silver car available with a platinum gray interior.
There is an Audi board available on Edmunds specific to the Audi A6 2.8 and Saab 9-5. http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?c=Sedans&f=0&t=3975&q=0- Unfortunately there is a poor chap in that forum who went from a Saab to an Audi but feels the Audi doesn't have the soul of Saab. Probably because Audi doesn't have those sneaky trolls in the car!!! ;-)
It is interesting that Audi does not offer comparisons to the Saab 9-5 on its site. The Saab USA site does provide comparisons to the Audi for those who are interested.
However, I do think the Audi is probably more suited to the average person looking for a luxury European car.
Also, car has about 15,000 miles on it and I've noticed lately that idle sometimes races, slows down, and races again when I'm sitting at a red light shortly after a "cold" start (it's not cold here yet). Dealer said to check and see if tach also goes up coincident with the racing. Why did dealer ask me that? What difference does it make? Car's idle didn't used to vary so much. Any ideas why it could be doing so now?
Girl With Saab
Have not heard any news about the NHSTA forcing them to replace the current ones in the field for Safety reasons. Maybe we could start a campaign.
You will be able to replace your key and seperate fob for a new integrated fob unit. The 'fobulous' keys are available NOW through your dealer. Unfortunately I have not asked the price. I would assume around $100 to $150. Even the traditional replacement keys are expensive because of the anti-theft circuitry built into the actual key.
Have you received a campaign letter for the ecu/ecm replacement? I believe this might take care of your idle issue. Although I must say the question from the service manager is odd. What engine do you have?
I state this honestly, and hopefully speaking for all that $200 is an incredible price to pay for an item that obviously does not cost $200 to make. True, the existing customer does not have to buy the overpriced product, but this is just another piece of the "saab" customer loyalty puzzle to put together.
A replacement key for my new Montero is $150. What you don't understand is that the new keys with theift protection chips are expensive to replace. That's without even considering the cost of the remote electronics.
Last three cars I've purchased were: Chysler MiniV, Saab 9-5, Dodge Durango and now a Mitsu Montero. In ALL 4 cases I was warned by the dealer to be careful not to lose a key because they are extrememly expensive to replace now. The days of running down to the local hardware store to cut a new key is over for MOST vehicles. But the deception continues. Lets inform consumers - Saab is the only company ripping us off on this! Forget the facts.
This is clearly one of those items subject to massive dealer markup. If you're lucky enough to live in an area w/ multiple dealers, it's a very good idea to shop around.
Where the cost gets gruesome is when you're stuck w/o a key or fob. There's no way for the dealer to clone an existing one, so they have to start from scratch. There's a semi-famous story about a Camry owner who lost both key-transmitter sets and was on the hook for $2400 as a result. Could a Saab be much less?
One thing to remember--always carry an extra key when you're on a trip, in case you lose your main key and transmitter (and don't keep it in your luggage, either).
But, Drew, I agree this is not a Saab-only ripoff. It is a ripoff by all of the dealers/manufacturers who charge extravagant prices for a replacement key/FOB. How can they get away with it? The law of supply and demand. They are the only suppliers. If there was an open market with every corner store able to sell you one of these, then they would not be $200.
My, I think the current fat FOB makes it more difficult to lose. I have always wondered about it's design though. Ergonomic? Not really, with the buttons on the top edge, it seems it would want to flop over as I am pressing one.
My '99 Chevy Silverado has a much less conspicuous flat FOB. Now, my question - I have to press three buttons to unlock all doors and the wagon liftgate. The door button twice and the rear hatch once. Is there an alternative?
I personally feel that $150 - $175 is really no big deal if the current key fob is a significant enough issue for the user.
I recall reading that these type of keys make it very difficult for the car to be stolen so I see it as a means of protecting your investment.
I had to check out which technology Mitsu was using before they qouted me a rate on the Montero. I qualified for the discount. Hmm, I still wonder why my rate is soo high though. Bottom line is that the key may be costly but the insurance saving more than off-sets the higher cost.
Drew, nice repeats of your personal attacks again. Are you going to keep that up, even after the host told you to quit? There are those who do not always agree with your views, and they have a right to be heard as well. I guess you just can't stop the personal attacks because you are afraid that you will lose your own purpose if you must rely strictly on comments about the 9-5.
Anyway, I read a review of the new Lexus I model in Car and Driver. It's called the anti-BMW car, because it was developed to compete with the BMW 3-series, but it is supposedly nothing like the BMW in feel or in handling (or internal structure except for the rear wheel drive).
It looks a lot like the 9-5 from the side and back. Although it looks smaller than a lexus GS model, it seems to be as big as a 9-5 (although that may just be the looks). Car and Driver gave it great marks stating that it has Lexus quality with a sporty feel. It also has a very quick 0-60 speed and fully loaded, it is about $35,000 MSRP. Base is around $31,000 MSRP.
I wonder if this model is worthy of saab 9-5 discussion as a new competitor to the field to the 9-5. I have no question that BMW is not happy with the entry.
Sherndon: I have not found another way to open my entire car without 3 button hits. I have noticed, however, that if you hit the door button the 2nd time right after hitting it the 1st time, you only get one set of beeps and all 4 doors unlock!
Thanks for the info, guys, on the key fob. I guess I have to think about having an automatic opener only work within a range of 2-3 feet of my car is okay or not. It's probably safer in a way (thinking of being parked in a shopping mall) than opening it from 10 feet away...
Ciao for now.
Also in regards to the beeps etc - -they are programmable by the service department for loudness, repeat number and mute.
Saaber- - I did see the Lexus 'thing'. I saw it in bright yellow and it in my perspective was really ugly. Actually, I think it is the ugliest design ever to come out of Lexus. The lights in the rear look like they came out of design shop catering to after market gangsters who modified the rear brake lights to look white.
The car is definately smaller looking in person compared to the Saab 9-5.
The 3 series looks far more attractive unless your preference is for cars that have the wiper blades in colors to contrast with the car.
I am talking way too flashy and tacky. It does not look refined. It does have a very strong Japanese style influence to it - - I see that overall look in Japan often - I get there every few months and I can see the design origins in their non-export cars.
Insofar as comparisons to Saab - - I would match it up with the 9-3 Viggen in one of the bolder colors available from Saab.
The Saab 9-5 is not aiming at that market - -
Also - - I thought some of the first ads for that Lexus were very irresponsible. They showed them being driven in very un-safe manners through tight streets etc while relating to a 'live dangerously' type metaphor. Please are there not enought reckless people on the road already - -
Needless to say the car will sell well - - but I think that is more a reflection of the poor state of values in the U.S. than anything else.
Thankt RTD for the size info. Remember, its not the size of the wave... (just joking). I have always thought of the 9-5 as a medium size car (like the IS), but yet, when you see the actual measurements, it is really a much larger car. I guess I knew this from my garage spacing and the huge trunk space for my golf club carry case, but the 9-5 still seems to look smaller to me. In my opinion that is actually a positive thing for the 9-5.
I think it is hard to classify the Saab 9-5 into a pre-defined bucket. In many ways is in a category somewhat on its own. I have seen it classified as entry level luxury, luxury, a mid size sedan, sport sedan, luxury sport sedan etc.
I drove the Lexus IS300 at an Edmunds.com event in Atlanta. BTW, it was a terrific event and a great idea, hope they do it again next year. Anyway, I liked the car compared to the others there - 3 series, A4, Acura TL, I30, Catera, Lincoln LS, 300M. The IS300 was a very good copy of the 3 series and I thought it accelerated and steered better. Now I could only drive it on their closed course which was very small so my experience is not extensive. Guess you really got to drive one on the road to compare fairly.
I like the styling of the IS. It really appeals to a younger crowd which is why I think it exists. Lexus is a conservative brand and appeals to an older clintele. The IS changes that and brings in a customer that has money but wants cutting edge style and high quality. My only concern is that the styling will age quickly. It's very techie and "Japanese-anime". I'm sure all the 25 yr. old cyberdudes drool over this car and I feel this is the audience. A little too young for me but it is appealing. I prefer the Audi TT's sophisticated "Euro tech" style over the IS.
Also got a further explanation from parts manager whom I had spoken to earlier in the day about the the new FOB. The 2-3 feet activation distance of the new FOB only relates to 99's and 2000's that replace the old with the new, they currently cannot be programmed for a greater distance. On the 2001 models new FOB works normally.
Just as an FYI with the wiper blades, most people don't do this but - - peridically you should wipe your blades with either window cleaner solvent or isopropryl alcohol. It improves their clean wipe-ability and prevents streaking.
Don't be so sensitive. Read the posts and take them for what they are. BTW I wasn't asked by the host to do or not do anything.
I've also said that I will not engage in these type discussion unless I was Directly addressed, attacked, etc. You did - I responded with this post - Isn't that only fair?
Disclaimer to the reader: There were no personal attacks made or intended in the above statements. Does that help anyones comprehension?
ps. I'd have to go back a read the post your referring to but I don't think I even mentioned you in it directly.
cheating or an opportunity to complain about Saab<
That would be a direct mention of you.
But I do not see it as an attack. The verbage "but as usual your..." must be what offended you. This confuses me but sorry if your offended.
STOCKHOLM, Oct 7 (Reuters) - General Motors Corp's Swedish subsidiary Saab Automobile is recalling 130,000 cars because of defective electronics, a Saab spokesman said on Saturday.
The cars represent the entire 1998 and 1999 output of the 9-5 model, Saab's head of information, Niklas Andersson, told Reuters.
Andersson said the fault did not affect safety. Components in the electonics box had not been well enough protected when the system was manufactured by a Saab supplier.
As a result the parts could suffer corrosion, causing the engine to handle roughly or even stop working.
``What the driver would experience is that a sign on the dashboard tells him 'Please check the engine', and the engine might even stop,'' Andersson said.
The supplier, who he declined to name, would shoulder the costs of fixing the fault, and Saab itself would not suffer any costs
For anyone here to state that random engine stalling at highway speeds is not a safety issue, it is just my humble opinion that you can only be perceived as smoking something really strong. I know all the saablovers here will run to saab's rescue to claim that random stalling is a "good thing" because (1) it shows character in the saab name and (2) "all other cars" randomly stall as well.
Yes, I commend saab for finally admitting what their owners were reporting in mass numbers for months. Many here can remember themselves viciously attacking those who mentioned that the saab 9-5 could randomly stall. I also remember the special informal "survey" where 7 out of ten people responded on the saablovers' "saabnet" site (to the question "is there anyone out there who has not had an ecu issue?") with no complaints about the ECU issue.
I guess it's a good time for reflection of making personal attacks on those who mention issues with the intent of informing new customers of the problems,and getting saab's attention in the meantime to make the cars better.
Yes, I congratulate saab on finally acting to fix the problem. I do not like its claims that no safety issue exists, when it admits that the cars can randomly stall (or in my case--buck) at any time. Let's hope they act quickly to fix these vehicle before a major accident does occur (or another accident occurs if they are covering up something that has actually happened).