Are you a current Michigan-based car shopper? A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/2 for details.
Thanks for the heads-up. My wife has a birthday coming up in a month and I'd love to get her a "G" but I doubt she'll actually try to figure out how to use it. I am afraid we'll end up using it mostly when we're driving together and the "G" will come out to be a present for me more than anything else (case in point: Bose wave radio - was supposed to stimulate her cooking endeavors, which never really materialized AND she still uses her two-dollar alarm clock )).
Couple of questions: 1. Is there a monthly fee for accessing the GPS system? 2. Do you have any concerns over privacy? You might have heard that case from last year when someone rented a car with a nav system and was fined three speeding tickets on the same day by the company he rented from. The tickets, of course, were thrown out in court... 3. How detailed are their rural maps?
So far the SMG is fragged for every god forsaken country but the good 'ol USA! Obviously the engineers in Munchen think we're too stupid to handle such a machine! -nobee
The StreetPilot III is a receive only unit, so there is no way that you can have it generate a speeding ticket. That is, unless of course you say "You-Hoo, Mr. Officer! Look at this, I just averaged 110mph from Albany, NY to Boston, MA, would you please give me a ticket?" ;-)
There is no monthly subscription, however, there is an update charge for new maps. It is my understanding that each of the 11 map segments for the USA and Canada costs $116.65 (your first map set comes with your unit), or you can buy all 11 map sets for $233.32. Depending on how much coverage you need, you can also buy extra datacards so that you can have extra map sets handy as you travel. As for rural maps, I think that the main default map has all of North America, Shores, State Lines and Interstates programmed in prior to you adding your datacard with the specific local area(s) that you want. That said, if you are looking for the following address:
1 This and That Road (it really exists!) Weiser, ID 83672
I would like to have the SMG option in a 330CI. I just can't reconcile why BMW offers the SMG in other countries and not in the U.S. All my info about SMG vs. Steptronic is from the web. Personally, I have not driven one with the SMG but the literature suggests that it is way better than the Steptronic. Having driven in NYC traffic all my life, I believe the SMG is the best compromise between a manual and a Steptronic.
Just getting older and a bit relaxed and trying to have the best of both worlds.
and most standalone GPS units is the price you're forced to pay for comprehensive, up-to-date mapping data and the proprietary "memory cards" on which you store your chosen subset of the data. As cheap as GPS chipsets, hard drive storage, memory, and LCD screens are these days, I'm hoping someone in the next year will ship a portable color for under $500 with a 20GB hard drive containing geo data for the entire world, updateable via download from the Internet. That's the one I'll line up to buy. "Computer, plot me the fastest driving route from Washington DC to the Hofbrauhaus in Munich, please...and make sure we hit as many Stuckeys and Wal Marts along the way as possible!"
I have a question for the Canadian with the username 325i87. Where did you get the 17" steel wheels for a 2001 330xi? Your help would be greatly appreciated as we have a 2001 330xi but I want to put snow tires on with steel wheels not an aftermarket alloy.
They are available at BMW dealers at least here in Canada. Here BMW offers package deals of there rims with mounted winter tires. I just did not like the tires that they offered (Continental) so I just got a shop to order the rims and mount Michelin winter tires on them.
They are very similar in style to those I had with my older 325i. They are aluminium painted steel rims with round holes in a circle on the side. Axle end caps held by the lug nuts are also available to go with them. I paid the equivalent in US$ of $65 per wheel plus about $10 per cap.
The tires I got are Pilot Alpin (205/50R17 tires, directional). They are rated somewhat below the Blizzaks for snow/ice traction but have much better thread life. They feel as good or better to the Alpin tires I used before for winter traction but are much quieter. I have not tried the Blizzaks personally. I tried the Continental tires in a test drive last year and they are incredibly noisy.
I just picked up my '02 325i last week. I am gently breaking the car in (I want to punch the gas in the worst way). Like many who have posted here, I do not subscribe to the 12,800 miles between oil changes professed by BMW...5,000 between oil changes feels about right to me (I plan to keep the car for many, many years). Any thougths out there about changing oil when the car reaches 1,200 miles? Or should I just wait until I hit 5,000. Also, does anyone know the specific brand and type of oil used by the dealers?
Do you have ANY evidence to suggest that a 15,000 mile oil change is a problem? Given that there is SUBSTANTIAL evidence that Synthetic oil will last WELL beyond the target 15K oil change, I am very curious to hear your rational.
Re the question of how long is is too long between synthetic oil changes: If you have more patience than I, check out the Mobil 1 section of the www.mobil.com Web site. The answer (with evidence) has got to be there somewhere. (For that matter, it can probably be found in many places on the Internet.) But ...
When my 2000 323Ci was new, I tried to get the answer to this question at the Mobil site (since my dealer said that they used Mobil 1 for oil changes), but after about 30 minutes of frustration, I gave up. So, when 5,000 miles appeared on the odometer, I paid the dealer $60 for an oil chamge. (Why 5000 miles? Why not.) I fiugred my time and peace of mind were worth $60.
By the way, for those of you with more time and more inclination, Costco sells 6 quarts of Mobil 1 for $22 (but you'll have to buy a filter, too).
If you look at all the differences between other (maybe older) cars and your current BMW, I don't see any reason to change before the 16000 mile interval. The first difference is that your BMW carries 7.9 quarts of oil. One reason for changing oil is to get rid products of combustion that accumulate in the engine and maintain the viscosity of the oil. Just based on the difference in quantity of oil and a "normal" change interval of 6000 miles, I'd project that the BMW's oil should be changed in 2.25 (7.9/3.5) times the normal interval or ~13000 miles. Now add to that the fact the BMW uses synthetic oil, which does not break down as quickly as dino-fluid, and the 16000mile change interval does not seems so outrageous.
Alan
BTW, the BMW tells you (by lighting the oil light after you turn off your engine) when you need to add a quart so you should never have less than 7.0 quarts in the crankcase.
1) bmw is not now, nor has been in the past (nor is likely to be in the future) in the business of blowing up engines (well, ok, they had that little alloy problem there)...
2) consider this. the vast majority of these cars are leased and will be resold as cpo's. really think bmw wants to be replacing engines underneath cpo warrantees?
3) i really think the bmw engineers who designed the engine have a better idea of the tolerances of it than i do. maybe others out here are smarter than me.
hey, it's your money. if you want to change your oil more often, go for it. but please don't imply that you know better than the bmw engineers.
I spoke to the service manager at my dealership recently and asked the same question.
He mentioned that you can easily go 15000 miles or 1 year (whichever comes sooner) with just topping off the oil when it is needed. I am no mechanic but I have no reason not to believe my owners manual and a trained BMW rep.
Yeah, right. Well, my Uncle Cletus always used straight 30 weight Pennzoil in his '65 Valiant. He changed it every 1500 miles and the thing lasted for 300000 miles. I'm sure he knows more than all them pointy-heads in Germany. So I'm changing oil every 3000 miles- and that's pushing it.
Always amusing to hear these discussions about oil changes - people will believe whatever they want for whatever reasons they want, and you aren't going to change any minds by pointing out the obvious - that extended oil change intervals have been common in Europe for years, using plain old conventional oil, no less.
For the record, the oil BMW recommends to the dealers is Castrol Syntec, which in 5w50 viscosity is all I have used in all of our cars for the past 8 years. It allows me to go a solid year between changes [where the ambient temps run from 25F to 110F] with peace of mind. But I expect no one who believes in short oil change intervals to change their minds...Shipo and I have participated in these debates both here and on the MB forum, and the result is always the same...believe whatever makes you feel best...
This is a really touchy subject in several different ways. I'm no tribiology expert, but some of the factors are self-evident:
- increasingly longer service intervals are a manufacturer-encouraged product differentiation feature (witness 100K mile spark plugs, etc). People are inconvenienced by having to get their car serviced, so they consider it to be a "good thing".
The dumb thing is that damage from road hazards are a nonsignificant risk, so not having a mechanic looking at your car on a lift every ~6 months is really a pretty dumb idea, not a so-called "feature". Think about the repair cost differential between catching one torn CV joint boot in time vs. not catching it.
- Lower oil viscosity is known to increase fuel efficiency slightly, which is good for automakers who need another ~0.1 mpg to meet their CAFE. We also see "green" (low rolling resistance) tires for the same reason. But neither are particularly beneficial for other measures of performance for the vehicle, and are in some circumstances less than beneficial. Insufficient viscosity will cause engine damage, for example. Fortunately, synthetics have helped here a lot.
- When manufacturers are the ones paying for vehicle service for the first 4 years, they're generally willing to take some longer term engine life risks that they may never have to pay, in order to cut real dollars from their maintenance costs.
- Engineers often get overruled by the marketing and accounting weenies. BMW isn't as bad as elsewhere, but we haven't seen that it cannot ever happen. As such, we should always be ready with the proverbial grain of salt when trying to critically examine the "hows" and "whys".
- Duty cycle makes a huge difference as to how quickly an oil will get gunked up and need replacement. My personal rule of thumb is spring & fall, regardless of mileage, and anything built after 1995 runs synthetics, because these engines often have smaller (and thus more critical) oil passages, which are more prone to clogging than older, more forgiving engines.
FWIW, I've had one partial engine rebuild from a clogged oil line; I was lucky in that it ran me "only" $2500. I caught it because a coworker a month before didn't, and got hit up for $9K. Doubling your oil changes from a 10K to a 5K interval will only cost ~$700 per 100,000 miles. YMMV if this type of insurance is worth it to you.
What it boils down to is various people have interests that conflict with the automobile owner's interests and they will provide misleading information to you.
I say change your oil as often as you want. Heck, change it once a day if it makes you feel better!
That said, once I get my bimmer, I'll probably stick to the recommended schedule.
What it boils down to is various people have interests that conflict with the automobile owner's interests and they will provide misleading information to you.
What it really is is that everything is always a compromise.
Sometimes, the precise nature of the compromise is important, sometimes its not. It can depend on who you are and in what part of the lifecycle you're the most interested in.
For example, the coworker (who seized his motor) apparently highly valued never having to be inconvenienced by having downtime from service. He ultimately paid $9K to save 3 days in the shop. YMMV, but this one is a no-brainer for me :-)
Thanks for the info on the official response from BMWUSA re:SMG in the 3er. I e-mailed BMW AG International and they forwarded my e-mail to BMWUSA but never got a reply from them. I guess all I can do is wait or just bite the bullet and go for the M3.
You guys may remember me from last spring, anyway, I have a couple of questions for you. I am ordering a 02 325i, black/black, heated seats, xenons next week. Is there anything that I should have thrown in to the deal? Obviously floor mats. I think I remember some talk about keyless wheel locks. What are they? And should I have them included? Thanks, Jason
Guys, this is my first posting. A quick intro is in order.
Had a 1987 325 with 153 K miles(White, Stick, Cloth) for 11 years (bought used in 1990). I sold it 2 months ago and bought a White 2002 330i with Leather, Premium and Step (getting old, cannot keep shifting in traffic). Just to complete my car background, I also have a 1998 Audi A6.
This is the place where one could talk about cars and the other guy does not yawn or roll up their eyes. I probably cannot keep up with guys like Shipo, Braveheart etc. Anyway.....
This is where need input. Recall an old message (believe it was Braveheart) mentioned a steering retro on a 330i. Can you fill me in on what the problem was and what was changed.
It seems that you have come to the right place, Brave and I did a car swap about a month ago and one of the things that we compared was the retro steering vs. the original E46 steering. To save you a little time, I will give you "Cliff's Notes" of the situation.
I have a 1999 328i (PP, Xenon, HK, Metallic Paint) with the original steering setup for the E46 line of cars. For the 2001 model year, BMW saw fit to lighten the feel of the steering, much to the dismay of auto enthusiasts and automotive journalists. Early in 2001, BMW offered a voluntary retrofit for 2001 cars with the “Light Steering” problem, said retrofit (by all accounts) was better, but still not as good as the original. Enter Brave1heart, he bought a 2001 325i (SP, Roof, Xenon) (I think), which came with the above slightly improved retrofit. Mr. Brave opted to have the second retrofit applied to his car, which was SUPPOSED to bring the steering of his car back to a “Feel” that was similar to the original. As I remember it, most of us (all of us?) were more than a little skeptical of the “Same Feel” claim.
In late November, Brave and I orchestrated a car swap for a day and a half to get a feel of how the two E46s would behave with the different options when compared to each other. The first thing that I noticed was NOT that the steering was different. In fact, if there is a difference, I am not sure that I would be able to tell which was which if I was in a blind back-to-back test.
So, if you are worried that “Something is wrong” with your car that would require the retrofit, relax, it is/was purely optional and simply a choice thing, “Light to the touch Steering” or “Heavy to the touch Steering”. I choose “Heavy”.
Best Regards, Shipo
P.S.
If you look back to the Late November or Early December posts, you will find considerable fodder in our discussions to help you understand the steering thing.
Brave is the guy to ask, however, I think that BMW had three official steering assemblies for the 2001 E46 cars (I will call them Mark I, II & III). If I remember correctly, his car was built in April 2001, and came with the Mark II setup from the factory. I do not remember if the Mark II was ever available as a field retrofit, however I am pretty sure that the factory changed to it sometime in the March/April time frame.
It is the Mark III that is the definitive "Heavy" steering setup for the 2001 cars, and that is what Brave has installed on Stroumph, and what I compared to my Mark 0, 1999 328i.
As a side note, for the actual comparison, it is important to state that I have 205mm section width tires on my 328i, and Brave has the SP with the 225mm section tires on his. Who knows, maybe my steering would be heavier than his if I added wider tires.
jrct... The sticker on my wife's '00 323iA from her car's very recent change indicates use of 5W30 synthetic.
postoak... An extended warranty is a form of insurance. The financial strength, reputation, solvency, management, etc. of the underlying company is critical. That is why I say only buy from the manufacturer, but that is MHO. Saw some articles today about Iowa Attorney General investigating a company Warranty USA, which was selling purported bumper-to-bumper warranties to owners around time their original factory b-to-b warranty expires. Had about 150 complaints and has gotten money back for buyers. Company reportedly in receivership. AG Miller says the list of exclusions might make the warranties virutally worthless.
Jason - Welcome back, bud - good to hear from you. It's great to hear that you're moving on with the deal. The wheel locks protect your rims and tires from being stolen. Essentially, they replace one of your rim lugs and are very inexpensive (~20 for a set of 4 non-key type). They are recommended if you're getting the SP, which comes with more expensive wheels. What else, let's see.. In addition to the wheels locks and mats, I got a free T-shirt and 5.9% financing.
retrofit - I think Shipo meant to say that all '01 3-series produced after January had corrected steering (less assist). I got the steering retrofit that was offered to all '00 and '01 (Jan-May) RWD 3-series. It's an elective surgery paid for by BMWNA that results in tighter steering for a sportier feel. All 2002 models are supposed to have the original heavy steering.
And speaking of the 2002 models, I just downloaded the brochure for the original 1968 BMW 2002. What a beauty, I'd love to drive one. Anyone interested in a 2002 - 325i SP swap for a day, please let me know. Also, has anyone ever seen the 1957 507? That is one of the most beautiful cars I have ever seen. They only made 253 of those and they must be worth a fortune. True gem!!!
P.S. Hey, Shipo - you are the coolest Board Dean - versatile enough to fill in the Board Historian's shoes when necessary. Thanks for doing this. My wife is due next week, I am also shopping for a house, and trying to wrap up some last minute things at work (170 miles from home), so I'll take all the help that I can )
I love the "heavy" feel of my wife's MY2000 323iA, non-Sport. Her's built in South Africa, with a 5/00 door jam plate. Does that have heavy, light, or inbetween steering feel? Her's a heavier than my '98 540i 6-speed. I like both but really like her's with the smaller, lighter car.
I experienced this first hand at the end of 2000 calender, when I was looking to buy. I drove the 325 and it felt like a "Toyota" so I ended up buying the 2 year old A6.
My 2002 feels like the original "feel" - does remind me of my 87 325. Not sure if BMW changed much of the steering technology - why change when it works so well.
The new 2002 745 is radically different. If it succeeds, expect the same with the 3s in later years. I believe they do not have a Step "stick" but paddle shifters - like race cars. I still prefer to shift my Steptronics.
This is a real good time to do the house thing given the prevailing interest rates. We are closing on a re-fi next Friday with a Libor indexed ARM and a ridiculous APR of something like 3.8%. Nothing like cutting the mortgage payment by more than half!
I have no problem helping out the "Board Historian" when Mr. & Mrs Brave are out house hunting or when Mrs. Brave "Has her time", so long as I can offer conditional responses such as "As far as I can remember..." or "To the best of my knowledge...". Rest assured, if I screw up a fact or two, we will ask you to clear up the gray areas when you come back online. ;-)
Riez,
"To the best of my knowledge..."
You have the original steering “Heavy” steering. Happy motoring.
Thanks for the info. I have to see the prod. date on the door of my car. I certainly feel I have "Mark II", though I have been told by my service manager that I have the original.
I've also been lurking on the Acura TL board (long story, but my parents are fed up with the treatment they receive from MB dealers and my Dad really likes the way the 330Xi drives, but he hates the standard and SP wheels for it) and people RAVE about the excellent treatment, fair prices, and amazing service they get at Park Avenue Acura (Maywood NJ off RTE 4). I wonder if Park Avenue BMW (Same Owners I think) provides the same level of courtesy to their BMW clients...It may be worth checking out.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
Has your Dad checked out the wheels that come with the "Run-Flat" option? I sort of like them the best of any of the wheel offerings for the 2002 330i & 330xi.
I have never been to the Park Avenue BMW center, so I cannot offer an opinion as to how well folks are treated there. I do however, like the staff over at Prestige (Route 17 and all).
I'm trying to decide whether ED makes sense as an option. If a dealer is willing to do, say, $1500 over ED invoice, would he be just as likely to do $1500 over US invoice for non-ED?
Can anyone relate a good ED dealer experience in the Bay Area, CA?
Jason, I had an '01 325i last year, same color combo as yours, that I just replaced with an '02 M Coupe. See if they will throw in chrome exhaust tips, mats, a BMW T shirt or two, and a really nice key ring or something..I got all that, and they even installed the alarm and 6 CD player for free.. Mine had Premium and Sport Pkgs, Xenons, 5 spd, dark wood trim, Moonroof, Upgraded HK sound.. I ultimately found the BEST bra, heatshield, and car cover for it too, let me know if you want that info.. Dont even bother looking at BMW's stuff, its not very user friendly or good.. You are going to love your car !! Good Luck !! DanF
I think it is the other way around. You are much more likely to find a dealer willing to sell you a U.S. car for $1500 over U.S. invoice than you are to find a dealer who will sell you an E.D. car for $1500 over E.D. invoice.
IMO, ED doesn't make sense for a lot of people. But, if you are already planning on going to Germany, or WANT to go to Germany, and don't mind doing without your BMW for 45-60 days after you return home, then it is a good deal.
It all depends on the dealer. An ED car doesn't come out of a dealer's yearly allocation (lor is it called allotment?) so I'd hope to see the opposite of what postoak said. Since the number of cars they have for US delivery are limited, I'd think they would do their best to squeeze every last bit of profit out of each car unless demand is low. An an ED sale is just gravy, so they SHOULD be willing to deal on it more than a US delivery. Of course, that doesn't explain why so many dealers won't budge below ED list price. Maybe those dealers are simply greedy and best avoided.
I didn't know that an ED didn't come out of a dealer's allocation. That could be a good thing to mention during my negotiation.
It seems to me that most people who have posted here on their ED deals who got $1,000 - $1,500 over invoice had to go to an out-of-town dealer. The local dealers were not willing to deal much. I don't know why that is, though.
When I begin my negotation, I was going to give my closest dealer the first shot, then 2nd closest, then 3rd, then try a small town dealer about 150 miles away and finally go to a nationally-oriented dealer (like Passport BMW in Maryland). Anybody see any problems with such a plan?
That is what I've read here and on other boards, but I'm not 100% sure. Fortunately, in my own case I discovered Passport after trying with 3 other local DC-area dealers (VOB, Fairfax and the one in Crystal City). None of those dealers were willing to discount ED and the only discounting they'd even do for me on US delivery was less than $1000 off sticker.
Passport is only about a 45 minute drive from me, so fortunately I won't have to have my car sent anywhere on a truck when it arrives (I think that's what Platypus had to do). However, for service I'm going to try a new BMW/Mini dealer in Sterling, VA that's opening up just a few miles from my house.
Speaking of when my car arrives, I spoke with Joern last night and he anticipates receiving my car within the next week or so. Woo hoo!
Finally, for those who want to see a rough write-up still very much in progress, my ED stuff is going here in excruciatingly boring detail.
I just got $1,000 over Euro Delivery invoice this morning for a 2002 330i. It is easier to negotiate from ED invoice since these cars do not count against the dealers standard allocation.
--- For non-cash deals, a good deal is judged based on 2 numbers (provided no dealer shady items): pricing (amount over invoice) PLUS financing (APR). One may get a good deal on pricing but get killed in financing.
--- With the increased invoices effective on 1/1, newly negotiated pricing may have to be discounted to last year's level to make a comparison. For a 330i ED, current $1000 over invoice is equal to last year's $1315 over without any options, as far as out of the door price is concerned. As such, we may hear more and more low $1000s over as this year's pricing norm because we are on different scales now.
To get a good deal from local dealers is most likely up to the number of dealers in your area. Here in So Cal, I inquired 6 dealers, four were up front with <=$1500 over, one "no bargain" and one "$2000 over".
Wow, you are thorough! I really enjoyed reading your experience. Sounds like it only took 4 weeks in transit. I'm considering ED but want to lease. One of the purchase consultant services told me you don't want to do this, but wouldn't tell me why. Is there a good reason?
Comments
Couple of questions:
1. Is there a monthly fee for accessing the GPS system?
2. Do you have any concerns over privacy? You might have heard that case from last year when someone rented a car with a nav system and was fined three speeding tickets on the same day by the company he rented from. The tickets, of course, were thrown out in court...
3. How detailed are their rural maps?
-nobee
Does anyone have any info on how to purchase a 3er with the SMG and bring it to the U.S.?
Will BMWUSA provide service for a non-U.S. spec car?
ie: If you wanted a 3 coupe, would you buy a 325Ci with SMG or a similarly equipped 330Ci with Steptronic?
Personally I'd take a 5 speed manual with either one of these.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
There is no monthly subscription, however, there is an update charge for new maps. It is my understanding that each of the 11 map segments for the USA and Canada costs $116.65 (your first map set comes with your unit), or you can buy all 11 map sets for $233.32. Depending on how much coverage you need, you can also buy extra datacards so that you can have extra map sets handy as you travel. As for rural maps, I think that the main default map has all of North America, Shores, State Lines and Interstates programmed in prior to you adding your datacard with the specific local area(s) that you want. That said, if you are looking for the following address:
1 This and That Road (it really exists!)
Weiser, ID 83672
My guess is that you will be out of luck.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Just getting older and a bit relaxed and trying to have the best of both worlds.
BTW, the StreetPilot III is $759.99 at etronics.com and the previous version, the StreetPilot ColorMap is $399.99
Thanks
They are very similar in style to those I had with my older 325i. They are aluminium painted steel rims with round holes in a circle on the side. Axle end caps held by the lug nuts are also available to go with them. I paid the equivalent in US$ of $65 per wheel plus about $10 per cap.
The tires I got are Pilot Alpin (205/50R17 tires, directional). They are rated somewhat below the Blizzaks for snow/ice traction but have much better thread life. They feel as good or better to the Alpin tires I used before for winter traction but are much quieter. I have not tried the Blizzaks personally. I tried the Continental tires in a test drive last year and they are incredibly noisy.
Best Regards,
Shipo
DL
When my 2000 323Ci was new, I tried to get the answer to this question at the Mobil site (since my dealer said that they used Mobil 1 for oil changes), but after about 30 minutes of frustration, I gave up. So, when 5,000 miles appeared on the odometer, I paid the dealer $60 for an oil chamge. (Why 5000 miles? Why not.) I fiugred my time and peace of mind were worth $60.
By the way, for those of you with more time and more inclination, Costco sells 6 quarts of Mobil 1 for $22 (but you'll have to buy a filter, too).
The first difference is that your BMW carries 7.9 quarts of oil. One reason for changing oil is to get rid products of combustion that accumulate in the engine and maintain the viscosity of the oil. Just based on the difference in quantity of oil and a "normal" change interval of 6000 miles, I'd project that the BMW's oil should be changed in 2.25 (7.9/3.5) times the normal interval or ~13000 miles. Now add to that the fact the BMW uses synthetic oil, which does not break down as quickly as dino-fluid, and the 16000mile change interval does not seems so outrageous.
Alan
BTW, the BMW tells you (by lighting the oil light after you turn off your engine) when you need to add a quart so you should never have less than 7.0 quarts in the crankcase.
2) consider this. the vast majority of these cars are leased and will be resold as cpo's. really think bmw wants to be replacing engines underneath cpo warrantees?
3) i really think the bmw engineers who designed the engine have a better idea of the tolerances of it than i do. maybe others out here are smarter than me.
hey, it's your money. if you want to change your oil more often, go for it. but please don't imply that you know better than the bmw engineers.
-Chris
He mentioned that you can easily go 15000 miles or 1 year (whichever comes sooner) with just topping off the oil when it is needed. I am no mechanic but I have no reason not to believe my owners manual and a trained BMW rep.
"Right now in the United States BMW only offers the SMG option on the M3. BMW has not yet have not finalized its plans for future models for 2003.
Thank you for your interest in BMW.
Sincerely,
Customer Relations Representative"
What does this tell me? Maybe that SMG may be an option for 2003 or 2004??
-Chris
For the record, the oil BMW recommends to the dealers is Castrol Syntec, which in 5w50 viscosity is all I have used in all of our cars for the past 8 years. It allows me to go a solid year between changes [where the ambient temps run from 25F to 110F] with peace of mind. But I expect no one who believes in short oil change intervals to change their minds...Shipo and I have participated in these debates both here and on the MB forum, and the result is always the same...believe whatever makes you feel best...
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
- increasingly longer service intervals are a manufacturer-encouraged product differentiation feature (witness 100K mile spark plugs, etc). People are inconvenienced by having to get their car serviced, so they consider it to be a "good thing".
The dumb thing is that damage from road hazards are a nonsignificant risk, so not having a mechanic looking at your car on a lift every ~6 months is really a pretty dumb idea, not a so-called "feature". Think about the repair cost differential between catching one torn CV joint boot in time vs. not catching it.
- Lower oil viscosity is known to increase fuel efficiency slightly, which is good for automakers who need another ~0.1 mpg to meet their CAFE. We also see "green" (low rolling resistance) tires for the same reason. But neither are particularly beneficial for other measures of performance for the vehicle, and are in some circumstances less than beneficial. Insufficient viscosity will cause engine damage, for example. Fortunately, synthetics have helped here a lot.
- When manufacturers are the ones paying for vehicle service for the first 4 years, they're generally willing to take some longer term engine life risks that they may never have to pay, in order to cut real dollars from their maintenance costs.
- Engineers often get overruled by the marketing and accounting weenies. BMW isn't as bad as elsewhere, but we haven't seen that it cannot ever happen. As such, we should always be ready with the proverbial grain of salt when trying to critically examine the "hows" and "whys".
- Duty cycle makes a huge difference as to how quickly an oil will get gunked up and need replacement. My personal rule of thumb is spring & fall, regardless of mileage, and anything built after 1995 runs synthetics, because these engines often have smaller (and thus more critical) oil passages, which are more prone to clogging than older, more forgiving engines.
FWIW, I've had one partial engine rebuild from a clogged oil line; I was lucky in that it ran me "only" $2500. I caught it because a coworker a month before didn't, and got hit up for $9K. Doubling your oil changes from a 10K to a 5K interval will only cost ~$700 per 100,000 miles. YMMV if this type of insurance is worth it to you.
-hh
I say change your oil as often as you want. Heck, change it once a day if it makes you feel better!
That said, once I get my bimmer, I'll probably stick to the recommended schedule.
What it really is is that everything is always a compromise.
Sometimes, the precise nature of the compromise is important, sometimes its not. It can depend on who you are and in what part of the lifecycle you're the most interested in.
For example, the coworker (who seized his motor) apparently highly valued never having to be inconvenienced by having downtime from service. He ultimately paid $9K to save 3 days in the shop. YMMV, but this one is a no-brainer for me :-)
-hh
Had a 1987 325 with 153 K miles(White, Stick, Cloth) for 11 years (bought used in 1990). I sold it 2 months ago and bought a White 2002 330i with Leather, Premium and Step (getting old, cannot keep shifting in traffic). Just to complete my car background, I also have a 1998 Audi A6.
This is the place where one could talk about cars and the other guy does not yawn or roll up their eyes. I probably cannot keep up with guys like Shipo, Braveheart etc. Anyway.....
This is where need input. Recall an old message (believe it was Braveheart) mentioned a steering retro on a 330i. Can you fill me in on what the problem was and what was changed.
1) When do I buy an extended warranty - at time of purchase of the new car or as the OEM warranty is about to expire?
2) What's a good brand?
3) Are there different types?
TIA
I have a 1999 328i (PP, Xenon, HK, Metallic Paint) with the original steering setup for the E46 line of cars. For the 2001 model year, BMW saw fit to lighten the feel of the steering, much to the dismay of auto enthusiasts and automotive journalists. Early in 2001, BMW offered a voluntary retrofit for 2001 cars with the “Light Steering” problem, said retrofit (by all accounts) was better, but still not as good as the original. Enter Brave1heart, he bought a 2001 325i (SP, Roof, Xenon) (I think), which came with the above slightly improved retrofit. Mr. Brave opted to have the second retrofit applied to his car, which was SUPPOSED to bring the steering of his car back to a “Feel” that was similar to the original. As I remember it, most of us (all of us?) were more than a little skeptical of the “Same Feel” claim.
In late November, Brave and I orchestrated a car swap for a day and a half to get a feel of how the two E46s would behave with the different options when compared to each other. The first thing that I noticed was NOT that the steering was different. In fact, if there is a difference, I am not sure that I would be able to tell which was which if I was in a blind back-to-back test.
So, if you are worried that “Something is wrong” with your car that would require the retrofit, relax, it is/was purely optional and simply a choice thing, “Light to the touch Steering” or “Heavy to the touch Steering”. I choose “Heavy”.
Best Regards,
Shipo
P.S.
If you look back to the Late November or Early December posts, you will find considerable fodder in our discussions to help you understand the steering thing.
You mentioned a second one. What did that do and how did he pull that off??
Thanks
It is the Mark III that is the definitive "Heavy" steering setup for the 2001 cars, and that is what Brave has installed on Stroumph, and what I compared to my Mark 0, 1999 328i.
As a side note, for the actual comparison, it is important to state that I have 205mm section width tires on my 328i, and Brave has the SP with the 225mm section tires on his. Who knows, maybe my steering would be heavier than his if I added wider tires.
Best Regards,
Shipo
postoak... An extended warranty is a form of insurance. The financial strength, reputation, solvency, management, etc. of the underlying company is critical. That is why I say only buy from the manufacturer, but that is MHO. Saw some articles today about Iowa Attorney General investigating a company Warranty USA, which was selling purported bumper-to-bumper warranties to owners around time their original factory b-to-b warranty expires. Had about 150 complaints and has gotten money back for buyers. Company reportedly in receivership. AG Miller says the list of exclusions might make the warranties virutally worthless.
retrofit - I think Shipo meant to say that all '01 3-series produced after January had corrected steering (less assist). I got the steering retrofit that was offered to all '00 and '01 (Jan-May) RWD 3-series. It's an elective surgery paid for by BMWNA that results in tighter steering for a sportier feel. All 2002 models are supposed to have the original heavy steering.
And speaking of the 2002 models, I just downloaded the brochure for the original 1968 BMW 2002. What a beauty, I'd love to drive one. Anyone interested in a 2002 - 325i SP swap for a day, please let me know. Also, has anyone ever seen the 1957 507? That is one of the most beautiful cars I have ever seen. They only made 253 of those and they must be worth a fortune. True gem!!!
P.S. Hey, Shipo - you are the coolest Board Dean - versatile enough to fill in the Board Historian's shoes when necessary. Thanks for doing this. My wife is due next week, I am also shopping for a house, and trying to wrap up some last minute things at work (170 miles from home), so I'll take all the help that I can
I experienced this first hand at the end of 2000 calender, when I was looking to buy. I drove the 325 and it felt like a "Toyota" so I ended up buying the 2 year old A6.
My 2002 feels like the original "feel" - does remind me of my 87 325. Not sure if BMW changed much of the steering technology - why change when it works so well.
The new 2002 745 is radically different. If it succeeds, expect the same with the 3s in later years. I believe they do not have a Step "stick" but paddle shifters - like race cars. I still prefer to shift my Steptronics.
Good Luck and Good Luck. ;-)
This is a real good time to do the house thing given the prevailing interest rates. We are closing on a re-fi next Friday with a Libor indexed ARM and a ridiculous APR of something like 3.8%. Nothing like cutting the mortgage payment by more than half!
I have no problem helping out the "Board Historian" when Mr. & Mrs Brave are out house hunting or when Mrs. Brave "Has her time", so long as I can offer conditional responses such as "As far as I can remember..." or "To the best of my knowledge...". Rest assured, if I screw up a fact or two, we will ask you to clear up the gray areas when you come back online. ;-)
Riez,
"To the best of my knowledge..."
You have the original steering “Heavy” steering. Happy motoring.
Best Regards,
Shipo
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
I have never been to the Park Avenue BMW center, so I cannot offer an opinion as to how well folks are treated there. I do however, like the staff over at Prestige (Route 17 and all).
Best Regards,
Shipo
Can anyone relate a good ED dealer experience in the Bay Area, CA?
regards,
falloutboy
I had an '01 325i last year, same color combo as yours, that I just replaced with an '02 M Coupe. See if they will throw in chrome exhaust tips, mats, a BMW T shirt or two, and a really nice key ring or something..I got all that, and they even installed the alarm and 6 CD player for free..
Mine had Premium and Sport Pkgs, Xenons, 5 spd, dark wood trim, Moonroof, Upgraded HK sound..
I ultimately found the BEST bra, heatshield, and car cover for it too, let me know if you want that info.. Dont even bother looking at BMW's stuff, its not very user friendly or good..
You are going to love your car !! Good Luck !!
DanF
IMO, ED doesn't make sense for a lot of people. But, if you are already planning on going to Germany, or WANT to go to Germany, and don't mind doing without your BMW for 45-60 days after you return home, then it is a good deal.
It seems to me that most people who have posted here on their ED deals who got $1,000 - $1,500 over invoice had to go to an out-of-town dealer. The local dealers were not willing to deal much. I don't know why that is, though.
When I begin my negotation, I was going to give my closest dealer the first shot, then 2nd closest, then 3rd, then try a small town dealer about 150 miles away and finally go to a nationally-oriented dealer (like Passport BMW in Maryland). Anybody see any problems with such a plan?
Passport is only about a 45 minute drive from me, so fortunately I won't have to have my car sent anywhere on a truck when it arrives (I think that's what Platypus had to do). However, for service I'm going to try a new BMW/Mini dealer in Sterling, VA that's opening up just a few miles from my house.
Speaking of when my car arrives, I spoke with Joern last night and he anticipates receiving my car within the next week or so. Woo hoo!
Finally, for those who want to see a rough write-up still very much in progress, my ED stuff is going here in excruciatingly boring detail.
--- For non-cash deals, a good deal is judged based on 2 numbers (provided no dealer shady items): pricing (amount over invoice) PLUS financing (APR). One may get a good deal on pricing but get killed in financing.
--- With the increased invoices effective on 1/1, newly negotiated pricing may have to be discounted to last year's level to make a comparison. For a 330i ED, current $1000 over invoice is equal to last year's $1315 over without any options, as far as out of the door price is concerned. As such, we may hear more and more low $1000s over as this year's pricing norm because we are on different scales now.
To get a good deal from local dealers is most likely up to the number of dealers in your area. Here in So Cal, I inquired 6 dealers, four were up front with <=$1500 over, one "no bargain" and one "$2000 over".