BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

erickpl · March 2002

I know the two Sport Packages are different, but has anybody compared the xi's Sport Package tires vs the i's Sport Package?

When my tires that came with the xi's SP are done, any particular recommendations? I'm not wanting to restart the debate of snow/all season/performance, but just looking for a good all around performer that can handle snow. I realize the xi's wheels are a bit narrower.

Thanks.

seivwrig · March 2002

Huntzinger-I think you said it best. It is why Toyota cannot sell 1000 Camrys in England. The design and culture affects the car buying public. Infiniti, Acura and Lexus has done well based on the fact that you get a good car with a lot of goodies for a good price.
With BMW, you buy a legacy based on the BMW 2002 (the first sports saloon(UK), limousine(D) or sedan(US)). You buy a M-B, you buy a heritage of excellence. European cars have been the standards in racing until the last twenty years when Nissan and Honda started making gains. All which have made todays cars better.
But it comes down to personal preference. I like German cars and most of my early car brochures are of British and German cars. I have never been a fan of British cars but I have always love Lotus cars. I have always like the fact that they are high output for relative small engines (but I like the Mitsu EVO VII, Nissan Skyline and Suburu WRX UK). Been European, I can't see a larger car as been a good handling car. To be a sport luxury car, handling is everything. A lot of cars might beat the BMW 330i in the straight 0-60 but when you place the same 330i on a European B-road against a Japanese lux car, the results change. In that situation, i would only place the EVO or WRX on that road, but they are not lux-sport cars.

stgreen · March 2002

Does anyone think it is possible to have a rear window wiper blade set up to work on on a 2002 330xi? It is the one option i really miss from my old saab 900se.

i know the answer is probably no, but just thought i would pose the question...

dave330i · March 2002

better if we move the G35 vs. 3-series over to the Vs. board. There's already a thread started over there, and less clutter over here.

dafreak: local BMW CCA is hosting a high speed event at Laguna Seca in May. I'd love to see you there with your G35, so you can show us how it'll run circles around us.

shipo · March 2002

Were it that I was looking to do what you asked, I would put Michelin "Pilot Sport A/S" tires on you car in the size of 225/45-17 (YR speed, 400, AA, A for the Treadwear, Temp and Traction). In 1999 when I got my 328i, the SP from the 323i had the same width rim as you and I both have, with a 225mm section width tire mounted on it.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dafreak · March 2002

i am pretty sure they wouldnt let me attend.....

john01 · March 2002

catching up after 2 days and there are 110 posts!

If you are really considering Berlin during your trip, drop me an email as I live in Berlin currently. Munich to Berlin will be about 5~6 hours with no traffic. It is about 360 miles, and once you go past Nurnberg, traffic is light and you can open up on A9.

Berlin to Amsterdam is about 410 miles and will be 6+ hours easily, but a great place. You should not miss it if you have the time. then 515 miles from Amsterdam back to Munich.

Berlin is quite nice, Potsdam is only 20 minutes away, Checkpoint Charlie, etc.

john01 · March 2002

N. America is probably the only place where Infinity is independent. I have yet to see any other country where it is. In fact, in Germany, Maxima is actually US I30. Lexus is about the only Japanese Luxury car brand (really a marketing/sales strategy) that I have seen outside of N. America. (UK, Germany, etc.) Ever since Nissan was swallowed by Renault, I am seeing more new Nissans that actually look like Renaults.

seivwrig · March 2002

Have you seen the new Nissan Primera? Definitely looks like Altima with a Renault touch.

ds2k1 · March 2002

You do raise some valid points. For instance, while I think the leather in my 330i is nice, it's not the best I've ever experienced. The leather in my old '91 Acura Legend LS was better, for one. And my stereo? It's okay, I guess. Nothing to write home about. Trunk space? Not a lot, but enough for me and my wife on weekend trips and enough for two golf bags with room to spare. But in its category, nothing brought me more joy to drive and park in my garage than this car, all around that is. One car will always be better than another at something, but, for me, the overall balance of the BMW is perfect. Very fast, but not American muscle-car fast. Very sporty, but more functional than sportier cars, etc. To be honest, I bet the G35 does many things better than my 330i, but I bet that I still wouldn't feel the sense of balance I do with my Bimmer. A few of the things you pointed out as positives for the G35 (i.e., more trunk space, better leather, better stereo, more interior room) weren't really issues for me, but will certainly appeal to a certain demographic that's considering buying BMW. What the 330i gave me in those categories was more than enough, but what it provided in other categories was extraordinary. But only so for me. Obviously, not for you. And cheers to that! I'm glad you found a car that will make you happier than the 330i would have. I just doubt it would make ME happier. But I will absolutely reserve judgment on that until I have the opportunity to drive one; an opportunity I look forward to.

john01 · March 2002

I have only seen the commercials, but I thought it was a new Renault for sure. The front end is definitely a Renault design, but the rear looks somewhat like sentra.

nyccarguy · March 2002

I'll definitely drop you a line as I plan on visiting Berlin. Your advice on where to stay and eat will prove invaluable to me. If you see a Red 325Ci (with New York Plates;)) driving around looking hopelessly lost, it is my girlfriend and I. LOL!

pat · March 2002

It's been suggested several times that this conversation move to Infiniti G35 vs BMW 330i over on the Comparisons board. I think that's a great idea.

Also, for any who have not checked out the discussions on that board, there are a couple of interesting "High End" discussions. We merged two into High End Luxury Marques just the other day. I bring that up because from what you folks have been saying about Japanese vs. German vehicles, I think you'd be very interested in both of the conversations over there.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

brave1heart · March 2002

Have you seen any consumer feedback on the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S? The tirerack does not have any feedback just yet and I'd really like to get some "real-world" feedback if I'm going to spend $216 a tire. Based on the technical description of the tire, it sounds like they blend 3 distinctly different compounds for every type of weather - I am just wondering how much of a compromise it would be in any type of weather.

john01 · March 2002

It will be my pleasure. I drove around in my Integra with VA tag for a month or so as well.

1pierce · March 2002

I agree with your sentiment, that the time is now for a 325i. I almost bought a 318i in 1991, but the car was just so spartan and had such a small engine for the money (about $19,500, nearly stripped). The vinyl seats were grossly inferior to today's leatherette - and looked like vinyl, the 4-speaker stereo sounded like the inside of a garbage can, and it came with 15" wheels and hub caps. I got a loaded Grand Prix GT for about $1,000 less, and loved it for 7 years - until the mechanicals started to fail.

I looked again in 1998, but I couldn't afford a 328, and a 318 still had the four cyl. and those hub caps.

Finally, in 2002, the time is right. I actually can't believe that you can get a creamy I6 cyl. with stability control, auto-manual, 16" alum. wheels, seats that actually look and feel like leather (but wear better), auto-climate control, all those airbags, fog lights, CD player, world class handling, and that BMW badge on the hood for under $30,000. We've come a long way, and the BMW I've dreamed about is finally within my reach.

ds2k1 · March 2002

Awesome, isn't it? Your enthusiasm is infectious. I miss the longing and excitement I had when I was gearing up for my BMW purchase. Hope you get your car soon and I know you'll love it as much as you think you will.

kdshapiro · March 2002

Wow the G35 vs 330 debate has sure heated up this board. If I knew I could affort a BMW I would have been driving them a while back. I actually never stopped in to a dealer to talk numbers I always assumed they were out of reach. Without any hard or fast numbers except seat of the pants observations I was always jealous of people who drove BMWs because of the class the exuded and the performance they exhibited. So no in my late 40's I'm driving my first Bimmer and I look forward to the drive to work every day.

It really is amusing to see some of the G35 crowd bash BMW for almost everything from leather to radio to weak performance to old tired looks, when the G35 is totally unproven. Hey it may win in some categories, but I think all around the 3 series is more versatile then all of Infinity as a company as was pointed out on the vs. thread. And while Infinity is definitely heating up the competition so is every other car manufacturer including BMW. This month it's Infinity next month it's ?. Some people would rather buy anything but BMW because I believe they are jealous and can't afford the cars. Just like some people are ABM (anybody but Microsoft). Even the guy on the G35 board who claimed he had a string of expensive cars and bought or tested a G35(?) sounds like he got caught up in the fray. If I could afford to drive a $75000 car I would not be looking at a G35 and claiming it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. At that level there is a marked difference between a $35 to 40K car and a $75K car. But to each their own. Sorry for the ramblings, the board filled up so fast it was hard to keep track of everything.

Ken

butmywife · March 2002

Shipo, I read your post about the dangers of driving in southern Italy. Please elaborate as I am 3 weeks away from Bimmering my way through parts of Italy. Bad drivers? Theft?

BTW, where does southern Italy start? We were thinking of going as far south as Rome and possibly Pompeii. Any advice?

Thanks, ButMyWife

shipo · March 2002

Ohhh, I don't want to be the bearer of bad tidings, however, if you were to look at a map of Italy and draw a line from San Marino in the east, through Florence (Firenze), and on to Pisa in the west, that would be the line that I would not cross. In fact, I would have go do some serious soul searching to even that far south unless you know for sure that you will have some kind of protected parking environment available wherever you will be leaving the car for more than even a few minutes.

As you may have guessed by the previous, theft is the problem, however, if you do REAL good planning, you might be able to get away with going to Rome. By good planning, I mean, research Hotels that have GUARDED garages. Then, you simply drive to your destination, park the car, and take local transportation wherever you go.

When I was on a project for Mercedes-Benz, I was (and still am) a consultant, as such, I did not qualify to drive the company cars (for insurance reasons), and MBUSA rented me a BMW. When I picked up the car, I was told that if I was to so much as even cross the border into Italy, and if something were to happen, I would be completely liable for all damages that might occur. On one of my trips to Germany, I had already blocked out a weekend to drive to Italy, so, they rented me an Opel Vectra Estate (I think it was a Vectra anyway), which served me quite well, and did not get stolen in Italy.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · March 2002

I occasionally skim the posts over on the "Jaguar X-Type" discussion, and I came across a post from The Boy yesterday where he was announcing the fact that his folks had just GIVEN him a brand new Jaguar X-Type 3.0 (Carnival Red Metallic, ivory interior, and fully loaded except the GPS and the SP), which according to my calculations, comes to a $42,720 car. Hmmm, now he really may become an authority on how much it costs to operate an A4 vs. a 3-Series. ;-)

Maybe I am just being foolish myself, however, it is my intent to let my son drive my 2002 530i as if it is his own car, when he gets to driving age, in 2011 (the car should have just over 100K miles on it by then). Maybe, just maybe, it is splitting hairs to suggest that that is any less irresponsible than giving a 16 year old kid a brand new $43K X-Type, however, the logic of giving ANY teenager a brand new car like that totally escapes me. I mean, like, what were his parents thinking???

Best Regards,
Shipo

parsonguy · March 2002

I really really WANT to like the G35. I want to buy one. Its a little more incognito, a bit more of a sleeper. But my long and rigorous test drive was soooooo disappointing. The torque curve/shift points are all over the map. So unpredictable. Yes, there are peaks where you are slammed into your seat. But that's not what I want. I am going to wait to drive the 6 speed G35. But if its as peaky and unpredictable as the automatic I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get a $28k E46. (Or $25k doing ED--think of it!) Maybe I can de-badge my BMW so my parishoners won't freak out. I don't want if for the cache. I want it because it is such a finely crafted and enjoyable way of getting around. Everyone please be civil and considerate like Brave and Shipo so the perception of BMW drivers will be changed forever.

bmw323is · March 2002

Ooops, sorry, excuse me - I was trying to get to the 3 series board? Must have taken a wrong turn back there at the 'sedans' corner!

I only read this board each day or two in the evening and, I'm losing my beauty sleep. LOL.

seivwrig · March 2002

De-badging is an idea. It seems like de-badging is the norm in Europe. Like is has been said before, you have to buy the vehicle for you. Don't worry about the parishioners. Especially consider what some of the pastors in my neck of the woods drive, your 3er would be considered meager. The members at one large church near my church bought their pastor a Rolls-Royce and another pastors' wife is driving a Bentley. If the Lord blesses you with a 3er, just praise him!!! Sorry for the soapbox rantings.

seivwrig · March 2002

I'm with you. Unless any teenager knows that he already has a high paying job working in the family business, what do they have to look forward to. I got my first car when I was a sophmore in college ('78 Mercury Zephyr 2-door) in '88. I went without a car from '91 to '99. Got my second vehicle, a new '99 Ford Ranger XLT (my wife's choice). I vowed that I would pick my next vehicle. Wrong again, she liked the BMW with a preference for the 5er. My third vehicle is my 2002 BMW 325i. To start at a X-type 3.0 or even an M3, what is the next vehicle? a M5 or a 911?

genie1 · March 2002

You mentioned Comdex LV as the launchpad for your mouse...have you considered the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) which usually runs in January instead?

I did some research last year for tradeshows suitable for new product launches and found that CES was a better vehicle with greater consumer interest...their website had a list of new products that were successfully introduced there (VCR, CD player, DVD, X-box...).

http://www.cesweb.org/

I also found that Comdex was more b2b and a very crowded marketplace, with all the big players getting most of the attention.

Both shows have their share of distributors, buyers and investors, so it may be worth looking into. Just my 2 cents worth.

butmywife · March 2002

Thanks for the geography advice. I think we'll hole up in some small town and bus or train to Rome.

FWIW, I came within 10 hours of buying an X-Type. My final test drive combined with a brutal "first drive" report from Edmunds changed my mind. While I liked the interior the standard sound system was meager (4 speakers) and my wife could not physically lift the emergency parking brake. The trunk release didn't work. Not much umph until you got the rpms up. We had done much research on it and mentally were ready to buy it and were disappointed not to.

Then I remembered that in the Edmunds bloodletting they mentioned that the X type couldn't keep up with the BMW 3 series. We took a test drive, got hooked, found out about ED, found this board and ended up spending about $2K less than the Jag. Funny how things turn out.

ButMyWife

div2 · March 2002

Well, so many of these kids who get really nice sleds manage to off themselves on a deserted back road, so I guess it does further the process of natural selection. After all, the parents have to be real morons to give a teenager a hot car, so think of it as chlorine for the gene pool. And in the case of Jag Boy, at worst he'll be totalling a re-badged Mondeo... This isn't a new phenomenon; back in 1968, one of my Dad's friends gave his 16 year old kid a brand new Hemi Roadrunner(even the Plymouth dealer tried to talk him out of it); the kid got it on Friday and was dead by Sunday.

hfb · March 2002

Just want to ask you a few questions regarding you post to Erickpl about upgrading his tires as am considering 330i or 330xi and also would like to consider upgrade:
1) Is it correct to assume that the stock wheel for the 330 (both i and xi) can handle a wider tire than what is standard (205/50/17)?
2) If the answer to #1 above is yes, then would say a 225/45/17 tire work on the standard wheel?
3)Do you believe there would be noticeable change in handling/driving characteristics?

My primary reason for considering a wider wheel is primarily looks - as I just think the car looks better with a wider wheel.

nyccarguy · March 2002

Actually...my parents did. When I got my license in 1992, many of the used cars out there were from the mid-late 80's and their reliability and safety records weren't the best (to say the least). I wanted a Mustang GT more than anything (Boy am I glad the insurance company wouldn't let me have that car). I ended up with a brand new 1992 Chevrolet Beretta GT. The car had ABS & a Driver's side air bag. While there was no way I could afford the car on my own, I did work (For my Dad's hardware store during the week over the summer and for a catering hall on the weekends) and I appreciated the car and that my parents were able to buy it for me. The $13,006 (Invoice, MSRP was $16,003) paid for my car is a far cry from a $46,000+ X Type. There were many spoiled rotten rich kids in my High School that had awesome cars (There were Mustangs, Camaros, Accords, & Preludes among the 325iC, 3000GTs, Jeep Grand Cherokees, an '86 911, a Range Rover, a few Saabs and a 944 Turbo. That being said, when the time comes many years from now for me to have kids (and I mean many, I'm not even going to get married for another couple of years), I will probably buy a car and drive it for a few years and then give it to my Son or Daughter. I think what you're doing is a cool thing for your son.

div2 · March 2002

My plan is to first make sure my son knows how to drive- think Skip Barber and the BMW Performance Center. Then, if he has a job and needs a car for work or after school sports I'll HELP him buy a safe slug such as a Volvo 240. If he goes a year without any at-fault accidents or tickets THEN we'll discuss a cooler ride. At 7 he's already saying he wants my Club Sport when he turns 16. I think not...

john01 · March 2002

it was an 81 Mazda GLC and although it was ugly, it ran quite well. I went through string of Hondas until our 530 in Feb. However, I remember my sister telling me about the new German exchange student (high school) who brought his own Lanborghini. Then there was friend of mine who attended a $25,000+/year private high school where most of kids were picked up in helicopters for vacations and drove Ferraris at home.

My kid, he will be doing a lot of lawn and house work if he wants my 530 14 years from now.

nyccarguy · March 2002

holding on to that club sport for dear life...LOL.

shipo · March 2002

Genie1,

The company that I am partnering with in New Hampshire (Contour Design) will have a booth at Comdex LV (for sure) and at CES (I think), so, basically, I get a free ride (other than airfare and lodging). Thanks for the advice; I had no idea that CES was so well thought of. Given that our initial marketing push will most likely be B2B with Consumer coming soon after, doing these two shows in that order will fit almost perfectly with our current plans.

ButMyWife,

Anything that I can do to help protect another BMW owner and his/her mount is my pleasure. ;-)

Good call on the Jag vs. BMW. Given that I drive an early production E46 (which, other than two taillight bulbs, has been problem free), I am stunned with the problems that Jaguar is having with the X-Type. Granted that none of said problems seem too serious, however, they are just so numerous.

Div2,

Me thinks that Darwin got it right. ;-) Ouch, a Hemi Roadrunner? What a wonderful piece of machinery to waste.

As far as my son is concerned, he will certainly have to A) earn enough to maintain the car before it is turned over to him and

prove his skills and common sense to us by driving the family MiniVan for six months or better before the (then) 9 year old 530i becomes his ride. I like the driving school idea as well.

HFB,

I know on the 16 wheels, you can easily mount 225 section width tires of the same diameter as the standard issue rubber, and while the profile of the 225/45-R17s is a little shorter, I believe it is perfectly OK to mount said tires on 17x7 wheels. If you call TireRack and talk to one of their counselors, I am sure they can give you a definitive yes or no. Let us know what you find out.

NycCarGuy,

I agree with you, there is a HUGE difference between a $13,000 Beretta and a $43,000 X-Type, both in performance and cost. I guess I just have something of an attitude about such things. ;-)

True Story:

I went to high school in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. For whatever reason, back in the early to mid 1970s, there were many automobile company executives living in the area. I went to school with a guy with the name of Biff Gay (no lie, name NOT changed to protect the guilty), apparently Daddy was some big Mucky-Muck for GM and the Biffer was given a one-off prototype yellow Corvette to drive during the Homecoming Parade. Bad move, Biffey Baby wrapped that sucker around a light post in the parking lot of our school. I dont think he was hurt in the actual accident, however, who knows what the other repercussions were once Daddy (and his management) found about the event. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

div2 · March 2002

Well, I guess it's my fault; I do let him sit in my lap and steer the CS down the driveway. He's pretty good- he holds the wheel at 9 and 3 and looks far enough down the road. He's a demon on Need for Speed; he has an M3 LTW and a McLaren F1 that NO ONE can beat. And he's not bad with a ti either...

jfedor1 · March 2002

... a 81 Volvo 240DL 2 door. Not the nicest car you can drive to high school, but I great first car for a 16 year old. I used it all through college, and wouldn't traded it for anything at the time(even my bimmer). I still somewhat miss it and would love to find a good condition p1800. With the new bimmer I miss having a car to work on.

Josh

nyccarguy · March 2002

I like the idea of giving the kid the minivan to drive for 6 months to a year and the driving school thing too. Hopefully I won't have a minivan (I'd like to have with a wagon of some sort, but a Minivan may be unavoidable). But I get your drift!

div2 · March 2002

Yeah, you've got the right idea. What really bugs me is how people almost always blame the car for the kid's untimely demise. Let's see... ALL 16 year old boys think that they are immune from death or serious injury- and they like to push ALL limits. So... what do you think will happen when you give him a 350 bhp+ car?

huntzinger · March 2002

A 302V8 '69 Falcon wagon. The wagon reduced its tendency to be nose-heavy and it could beat the 289 Mustangs when their drivers didn't know how to drive.

Another "Darwin-dodger" had to have been a '68 Caprice with a high output 327. I found that if the Firebird Trans-Am's shaker top's engine displacement was listed in cubic inches, he would win, but if it was listed in liters, I would.

Ah, the days of being young and stupid :-)

-hh

shipo · March 2002

Oddly enough (gasp, I cannot believe that I am about to admit this), I actually Like our Caravan, we got it with the 3.8 liter motor which has something like 245 pound feet of torque, and talk about a sleeper, NOBODY thinks twice about trying to cut around us at a stop light, that is, until the next stop light when they are still following us. ;-)

If you look back about 10,000 posts or so, you will find a post that I made from last summer where some dude in a yellow IS300 was cutting between the driving lane and the parked cars on 56th Street over by 10th Avenue. I was in the van, first at the light, and he pulled up right next to me. I guess he was just too confident, or asleep, because at the next light, the Green Monster was still the first vehicle in line. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart · March 2002

I like the '325i' on my car. It helps other drivers with much bigger engines in their cars figure out exactly what kind of BMW left them in the dust before it disappeared in the ramp at a speed they didn't think was possible for any street car

)

nyccarguy · March 2002

Green Monster! LOL! That's Great!

brave1heart · March 2002

You wrote the book for me as a father in #14782. I am going to print this out and put it some place where I won't forget it when my kid(s) reach driving age!!!

shipo · March 2002

He he, that is sort of like a friend of mine in high school who had a 440 Dodge Charger SE, but he took all of the insignia off of the car making it look like the exact same car with a 225 Slant-Six (except the larger wheels and tires, and the dual exhaust). He won LOTS of stop light races on Woodward and Telegraph. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

mfeldman · March 2002

Thanks for the candid input on driving in Italy. If I go to Europo for 4-5 weeks my wife and I definitely want to spend time there. Do you think its ok to drive a new bmw for 30 days in france and northern italy? Must i expect to park it in a secure garage evrywhere?

jimm718 · March 2002

After months of soul searching and driving everything under the sun, I bought a CPO 1999 323i. It's silver w/ black leather, auto, PP w/ 16" wheels, heated seats, and I had them install the CD changer in the trunk since it came with the cassette player.

She (are they female in gender?) has 35K miles and I got her for $25K (before tax & title). Also got the 4.9% financing. From what I've seen in the Chicago area, I think I got a great price on it.

genie1 · March 2002

The company that I am partnering with in New Hampshire (Contour Design) will have a booth at Comdex LV (for sure) and at CES (I think), so, basically, I get a free ride (other than airfare and lodging).

Thats great. I don't know if you've done the math on the costs of doing shows like Comdex and CES, but adding up what you pay for your booth, hook-ups, shipping, warehousing, equipment rental, drayage (this one's a gem), cleaning etc. and you could possibly reach 6 digits for each show.

So that's a doozy of a Free Ride

I'm on topic - really! The word Doozy or Duesy was originally used to describe a nice ride. It referred to the Duesenberg.

shipo · March 2002

In France, I would only be worry about security in larger cities like Paris, Lyon and Marseille. In northern Italy (north of the San Marino-Firenze-Pisa line), same basic story (except be a little more cautious), I would be security conscious in Torino, Milano, Genova, Bologna and Venezia. Have fun on your trip.

Best Regards,
Shipo

genie1 · March 2002

Just one more thing to add...make sure you keep everything out of sight in the car when parked...from shopping bags to items of clothing.

nyccarguy · March 2002

to buy a local newspaper and leave it in your front seat when you park the car.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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