My BMWs are undriveable in ice snow, etc. I cannot even get out of the driveway. The M 6 has 245/45/16 S/P 8000s and the 325is (Eibach/Bilstein sport) has 205/55/15 S/P 8000s. R. G. the Lone Star Chapter's long standing Secretary crashed his M Coupe astoundingly late New Years Eve/early NY's AM in our first ice snow event here in DFW in many years. I just bought a '02 Subaru WRX 5 sp AWD wagon! M
mikesm6 - Fair enough, you guys don't have a lot of experience driving in snow/ice down in DFW. You should hear all the jokes we have about Californian drivers up here in the NE. A lot of how comfortable you are driving in snow/ice is based on how much experience you have in similar weather conditions.
Here's what a well-respected car enthusiast friend of mine wrote to me today: 'My suggestion is you keep to the stock tires & see how they hold up in the snow. What brand/model are they? I seem to remember that BMW come with bridgestone or continentals? If you have a choice I'd get Dunlops or BFGoodrich's.
I drove through some pretty bad snow with the tires I had, which are z rated tires similar to the ones you are getting. The worked reasonably well, though there was some additional slippage over regular, less wide tires, but not enough to justify sacrificing the advantage they give you in normal dry or rain conditions.
In any case, most times the road are plowed, so buying expensive snow tires for that week or so that you might need them seems like a questionable investment. Also, performance on regular roads really suffers with snow tires. Get an AAA memebership if you are worried about getting stuck, if you haven't done so already - or drive your quattro. Either will save you considerable money.' +++
Need some advice. I don't know if my score would be above 700. I have rented an apartment and never missed a payment in that 6 years, and just finished paying off the loan on the wife's car a month ago. We don't own a house. I'm still in grad school and will be a doctor come November and my wife has a ok income. Plus I have big school loans obviously, but they don't show up on my credit report until I graduate. Think we will be ok for financing? Thanks for any advice, like I said I am new to this......I just don't want to order the car and have it arrive only to find out that we can not get a loan. Advice??....
Is anyone else having this problem...Ordered my car on 3/17/01 and dealer said "It was on its way" according to BMW NA it has been sitting at dock in SA since 3/22/01...now I saw that the owners circle said it's enroute, but according to BMW NA it is on the boat--but the boat has not left. WHat's going on?? Any info graetly appreciated.
jk26 - I think you'd be over 700 if you've already financed a car and esp. if you've had credit cards for at least 6-7 years and used them responsibly. Here's what I'd to eliminate the guessing part: you can get you FICO score from Experian or one of those credit agencies - go to their web site for more directions. It costs about $11 and well worth the money. If your score is over 700, that means you can get financing on the internet for about 6.95% or so (definitely under 7%). You can actually get financing just about anywhere with that score but again, the best rates are on the internet. If you are under 700, you can still get financing somewhere else. If you are under 700, what I'd do is fill out an application with BMW Fin'l Services at the time you order the car. They'll make a decision within a couple of weeks and definitely a long time before you get the ordered car. You'll have enough time to cancel the deal and get your deposit back if the financing doesn't go through. +++
I have a 325i with the SP. The tires that came with it are Bridgestone Turanza's. I gave up the leather seats for the sport package option. I do not regret it at all.
I hear you, I passionately agree with your choice. Do you really live in Wailea? Have you driven in snow with these tires? BTW, Wailea is our family's most favorite place in the world. Last time we visited we were seriously contemplating how to retire there but couldn't ever come up with the numbers. +++
I saw on a dealer's lot today an Alpine White 330i with white body side molding instead of the black. Does anyone know if that is an option, a mid-year change or something done at the dealer? I have an alpine white 325i on order and my wife would love to have the white trim instead of the black.
Last time we visited in '98 we stayed at the Aston Wailea resort. I think they got bought up subsequently as we couldn't find the hotel in this year's guide. Is the Grand Wailea resort the same as Aston Wailea? We did the Road to Hanna - that was an unforgettbale experience. I wish I had a Bimmer on that narrow winding road instead of a POS Grand Am. Even so, I'd do that road any day in any car and still love it! +++
I think the Aston was bought by Outrigger and is called Outrigger Wailea Resort. If you were to head south on the foot trail that runs along the beach you would hit GWR. There is a little seaside chapel on the grounds. Next time you plan a trip there you should consider staying there - it is pretty plush - check out the website.
One caveat though on the driving the Road to Hana or, for that matter, up to Haleakala in a BMW - OPEN ROAD!!
Folks over on the c-class forum are mis-informed...they say that all 3 series are built in South Africa...you can guess the tone/context. :-) Also, lots of anti-3er sentiments in IS300 and CL-S forums... :-) What can you say, right?
Ok, you got me, I was just sneaking in for a peek into C-class ownership...as a C-240 is also in my budget, but a bimmer is still a bimmer. I'm over that now. phew.
As soon as I evaluate the value of the 2002MY changes, I will be looking into ordering the 325ci topaz/blue, cd, xenon, sunroof and sport package soon, also might still look into the 325xi...as my wife is still concerned about winter driving. She reckoned that xi plus winter tires plus DSC/ABS will be one helluva setup....for the miles of snow plowed roads she'll encounter here in Grand Rapids, MI. :-) Oh well, what can you say.
To drivers/owners of the xi...how do you rate the reliability/performance/value of the awd. Also does the xi still gives you that 3er feeling? A little concerned about xi reliability after reading unboringguy's account of his 330xi and such. Whats the general consensus on perceived long-term reliability of the xi? Is the awd system (together with its DSC-X) transplanted from the x5 or are there marked differences.? I know BMW's intial foray into an awd 3 i.e. the 325ix was a brief one, but some ppl swear by the systems reliability. Any opinions on the xi in relative to the ix?
Since this is my first bimmer purchase, what are your thoughts of resale value in 5 years? I figure if I buy the car cash (say about 35k) now, make monthly payments into a money market account (for the price of the car) for five years, then I will have enough plus trade (35k plus 17.5k-assuming 50% depreciation over 5 years) to upgrade to a 530i/540i. Then I'll do the same thing all over again, and move up to the 740i/M5..eventually ending up with a Z.8 (oh in about 30 over years :-)...*dreaming*
If you MUST go with an AWD, the A4 is a viable alternative. We bought a fully loaded 1.8T for Mrs. in Feb for 27.5K. So far, it's been 10 out of 10 in ALL categories! This is one very solid car and I think it will last for a long while. We are certainly planning on keeping it for it least 7yrs/100,000 miles. The warranty coverage is best in ANY class: 4 yrs/50,000 miles, so you shouldn't have to pay a single cent for or warranty work and/or maintenance during that time period. Probably the best value you're getting out there for this level of performance and luxury. Not quite the performer the rear-wheel drive BMW is but again, a great value if you are considering a luxury AWD. By the way, I think 50% residual after 5 years on any car (incl. the 3-series) is unrealistic. +++
As a previous owner of A4 (1998), I can say that it may be a good car, but not comparable to the Bimmer. This is especially true if A4 will be used in a hot climate (I live in Miami), because A4's turbo is not intercooled, and heat will certainly hinder the car's performance significantly, as it was my case. I had to replace it with my 99 323i after a year. As my A4 was OK during winter, I believe that A4 should be driven at temperatures below 70 to make the turbo to do its job.
scroll down to the pricing information to find out
I have just recently picked up my 330xi on Thursday and I have thoroughly enjoyed it so far.
I can't say much about the reliability since this is also my first BMW, but I can tell you this regarding the performance, it definitely satisfies my expectations and I haven't even tested this car to its fullest potential due to the break-in period.
Regarding resale value, to tell you the truth I personally don't really care. I plan to own this car for a long time and put a lot of miles on it.
Now that might change when the M4 comes out in 2005(or is it 2006).....:)
Actually gave the A4 a hard and long look. Its got a great-looking interior, rally-proven awd, longer maintenance period, more goodies as standard, lower admission price going for it...I have to admit. But in the end, the fact that the 2002 revamped model was knocking at the door (potentially upsetting residual values) and the fact that the only A4 worth looking at for the money was the blown 1.8 four (the 2.8 is not really good IMO) I decided to ante up.
Still leaning towards the Ci, mentioned the Xi to appease my wife who wants awd....*sigh*
I guess you're right about 5 yr residuals....I meant to put 3 years actually....was thinking about 5 yrs on another topic.... :-)
gr8st8 : I know...:-) that's what I said (to myself) when I was reading the posts over at the C-class forum....only some 325 sedans are assembled in SA. All other 3ers are assembled in Germany....
I am a newbie, but I am wondering if any 330xi owners having a radiator problem. I have about 500 miles on my 01 330xi. While I was waiting for a traffic signal to change, I saw smoke coming under the hood! I immediately pulled car off and turned it off!
It's in a service department, but I haven't talked to them since it is still a weekend. I will let you know what happened, if you are interested, but I would like to know if anybody has run into this problem.
Ordered a steel gray 325xi myself on April 1. Test drove the car in a hilly area of my city (with lots of stop signs) during a snowstorm in late February. Pretty much made the decision to order one right then and there. Rock steady. Can't wait to take delivery.
I also asked lots of questions about reliability. Learned that AWD is not a new concept at BMW. BMW has apparently been making AWD models for sale in Europe for many years; however, they only offered this feature on a few cars marketed in the USA during the late 1980s/early 1990s. They dropped AWD from the USA market because those cars didn't sell all that well here, presumably because there wasn't a really big demand for them at that time. Of course, that has now changed, and the xi's are selling very well. I'm personally very confident that there won't be any nagging reliability issues.
Brave1heart: I think the Bridgestone Turanzas are one of 3 types mounted on 325s. IMO, they are lousy tires. If possible have the dealer switch with another car with Dunlops or ContiSports mounted (I think the Pilot Sports are only on the 330). The Turanzas really limit the performance of this car.
A4: I obviously agree that the bmw is a better car. That's why I'm here. But, if you're comparing cars, the 2.8 is roughly the same price as the 325 assuming any options. I'll be interested in the new A4 when it arrives here but my guess is I'll still prefer the bimmer's rwd.
I couldn't agree more with your opinion of the A4 and esp. with your statement that 'the only A4 worth looking at for the money was the blown 1.8 four'. In spite of some of the problems reported on the board with the BMW XI models, I think they will be reasonably reliable and getting better as BMW gains more experience making them. It's just that the A4 1.8T is a great value proposition and VERY close to a 325xi performance-wise. Similarly equipped, the 1.8T is about 6 grand cheaper than the 325xi and a viable alternative. Having said all that, the 3-series is still the car to beat in this class and that won't change soon. +++
reubencahn: Audi's 2.8 V6 despite 5 valve per cylinder technology is nowhere as charismatic as a BMW six-in-a-row IMO you know what I am talking about :-). That is why the 2.8 is a harder sell than the 1.8 turbo and the 2.7 twin-turbo.
langley2: If I am not mistaken, BMW also made a 525iX early 90s...I am not doubting BMW's AWD tech, but I understand the Xi's awd is different i.e. less mechanical, more high tech/electronics than the old iX's of late 80s and early 90s. Is the Xi's underpinnings an almost direct transplant off the X5?
About reliability, is the overheating/radiator problem inherent in most Xis? That is why I posed the question of Xi reliability earlier on....yet another post on overheating. I know the problem is in the cooling not the awd system itself...but I was just curious...
brave1heart: The detailings on the A4 1.8T along with more goodies i.e. std cassette/CD, alumimum trim, alarm system, sport steering wheel, choice of interior schemes ala martha stewart :-) plus 1 year extra maintenance to boot...affords the Audi a strong hard look when considering a 325i/Xi IMO. Heck even new entries like the IS300 and Acura TL-S sports equipment/amenities that warrant them a hearty consideration when shopping...But that is on paper and showroom appeal... the bimmer has that je-ne-sais-quoi that still gives the driver/owner the willies several years down the ownership road IMO. Too bad you can't quantify that....that is the reason why a lot of folks do not fully grasp the 'concept' of 3er ownership. I guess you gotta own one to understand *groan* :-) sorry...
I have no doubt the BMW will have ironed out the creases on the Xi's but its interesting to know, right now, with the help of new Xi owners who frequent this fine forum, what teething problems the Xis have and how they feel about them. Both curiousity and potential purchase interest drives me to pose this question, also to get the ball rolling.... :-)
Anyone on this board know of a good salesperson in the midwest that will do $1500 over invoice? I'm in Minneapolis and they are giving me the run around about demand and how they can't get close to that. If anyone has had a good experience somewhere in the midwest, please post where and how much over invoice you paid. Thanks.
It might be because of the cooling fan problem that bmw knows about. Someone else here had their car for 6 hours and overheated, turns out there is batches of cars that may have a bad cooling fan.
That's a good tip, thanks! I hadn't thought about asking the dealer to put in different tires. Not sure if it's a choice but I'll definitely find out and let you know. I am a big Dunlop fan. A friend of mine's been running on SP8000s and swears by them. When you say Dunlops, what particular model did you mean? Interestingly enough, there are no survey results on the Turanzas on the tirerack.com. They are in the performance grand touring category. I guess that means that they are not nearly as extreme performance-wise as the max performance category tires but are supposed to be quieter and more versatile?!? I'll take the RWD over AWD any day, unless I lived somewhere in the Arctic or something. I even love sliding the RWD in snow but again, that's me; most drivers would think I'm nuts for saying that and I don't care because I'm not an average driver. You are right about the 2.8 being about the same price as the 325xi. My point, though, is that it's reasonable to compare the 1.8T 170 HP A4 to the 325xi. The Bimmer has 15 more HP but is also about 250 lbs heavier in AWD trim and they are very close performance-wise. +++
Does anybody know if the warranty is affected by installing an alarm system, CD changer, etc. after you take delivery of the vehicle?. I have ordered a 325xi Black Sapphire Metallic/gray leather, and plan to install the above. (I would have gone with the dealer installed stuff but it seems that is always overpriced). Thanks for any comments.
Saw the new A4 at the NY show last week. Good stuff. It is definitely moving up-market with a larger V6 etc. It really makes the current model look dated. Having personal experience with the 1.8t vs. 2.8 delema, I chose the latter due to one thing-noise, or lack of it. The 1.8t has plenty of grunt, but you know it is working up there where as the 2.8 is much smoother.
Thanks to you guys I have gleaned a lot of info these past weeks! I have a tire/rim question: I have ordered a 325xi ....the standard features list @ kbb.com shows a couple of options for tires and rims. viz: P205/55R16 and P205/50R17. Which one is better? Which one has a wider tread and rim diameter? Can I opt for either one at delivery or is there no choice here? Thanks in advance! This forum rocks! Veekay1.
Does anyone have any thoughts on wheter it's worth the extra 1K+ to go with the leather interior rather than the leatherette. Also, are their any features/packages on the 325i that are 'must haves'? From all past comments, it seems like the sport package is something that should be taken advantage of on this car. Does this vastly improve handling or is it just all for looks?
Aside from the obvious reason of having your own BMW to drive while in Europe, is there any other advantage to buying over there?
Specifically, does a Euro Delivery BMW look different from a North American one? How?
What about price? From reading earlier posts, I understand the MSRP is about $1500 less for a Euro Delivery but what about shipping back to the U.S.? Is the shipping included or do you have to add that back on the the $1500 or so that you saved?
veekay1: The 17inchers are part of the Xi sport package, which includes sport seats and steering wheel but does not include sport tuned suspension, hence the sport pac for the Xi is cheaper than the ones for the RWD BMW. As you may already know, the Xi rides a little taller...for clearance (?). The 17inchers are a bigger (taller) rim than 16 inch and may give you a trifle bit more feel and of course better aesthetics (depends on your POV, of course). SInce the suspension tuning is the same, is a toss up between the two, of course some fine posters in this forum swear by the advantages of the sport seats that come with the sport pac...your choice. I think it could be cheaper to order the sport pac when ordering rather than piecemeal a dealer-installed option after delivery.
Also, maybe you should consider the alarm option once more. The BMW alarm could be bought for less than its 300 dollars list price on the net and installation could be negotiated into your deal upon delivery. Every 3er is wired for the BMW alarm, so installation is relatively easy (even for inexperienced DIYers), you only need to ask your dealer to program it. Check out e46fanatics.com's FAQ for installation instructions. As the BMW is wired for the alarm, the BMW alarm integrates very well into the car's electronics as well as with the car's Key Memory system which you can customize to your liking, again check out the FAQ. Also, for the price, the BMW alarm includes tilt sensor as well as motion sensor and also gives that infamous 'clown nose' on your rear view mirror as function. As for the CD player I think there are only a few CD players on the market that is compatible...ask alpine325i, he has the 411 on audio apps...
sunnybrook: there has been lenghty debates (friendly not like other forums) over leather v. leatherette, so I'll try summarize...the leatherette looks like leather, feels almost like leather, requires far less maintenance, and costs less-better to buy the sport pac instead. On the other hand, leather smells nices, could be softer (dependent on proper conditioning and cleaning) and is more fitting of a mid-30k car (the last point is debatable). I think they both perform similarly in hot/cold weather so heated seats (if youre in a cold clime) is a worthwhile consideration. If you are buying the sedan the sport pac is a definite plus. Besides the rather nice looking 17inch wheels and the sport wheel/seats, the suspension is also sport tuned, giving you better feel/grip/road handling over the standard set up. If you are buying the Ci (coupe), then the sport pac is not too necessary as the coupe's std setup is the sedan's sport set up. Again, its dependent on your needs in a vehicle. A LARGE number of people believe wholeheartedly that the sport pac makes/completes the sedan, more than any other option on BMW rather lenghty list and is more in tune with the philosophy of the 3er. btw the sport pac, contrary to most believe does not dramatically affect ride comfort or refinement.
postoak: ED cars are US-spec cars in every detail. The advantages of the ED, besides the discount is a great opportunity to visit you car's birthplace and to drive in on the very roads that have inspired BMW to make their cars as good as they are today. So the advantages is a great vacation opp as well as discounted price, the disadvs is that you have to wait a couple of weeks for your car to re-join you stateside.
Brave1heart: I think the Dunlops on the 325 are 8080s which are the same as the 8000s but in different sizes. The Contis are also supposed to be pretty good.
Veekay 1: The 205 width is the same for both. I assume the 17" is the sport package wheel and so would would have to decide at ordering. There have been a lot of comments about sport packages and I could add my own but since I've never driven or even looked at an "x" I won't.
A4: Brave1heart, I see your point about performance. I was comparing the rwd bmw to the quattro audi. I agree with dc75 that the inline six far outshines any of the audi engines. I don't know that I think the I4 is any more attractive than the others. I think it just hit the right pricepoint and that's why it's sold so well.
one more point on leather v leatherette, the 'ette fits more tightly around the seats while the leather have 'gathers' around the edges (to give supple leather interior look). The 'ette is very high quality and is very comparable to the costly leather option. Interestingly, the 3er could be outfitted with a cloth (almost velour like actually) interior at no cost. There is a wider pallatte of colors available for cloth (to better match your paint). FYI a large percentage of 3ers and 5ers in Europe sport cloth interiors. This is a little known fact and one that BMW NA frown upon. As such, dealers will classify it as special order and may charge you a bigger non-refund deposit upon ordering. Also, there could be a longer lead time (about 3-4 weeks longer).
reubencahn: also I think the Audi blown 4 (A4 1.8T) cater to a slightly different crowd. Just different philosphies and different price points, like you said. Its quite the versatile engine (witness its applications in anything from a Golf, Jetta, Passat and Beetle to the A4 and the TT coupe and Euro SEAT and one particular Skoda model, I think). I think the grunt and 'feel' of the engine suits its characteristics and that of the vehicle the engine is put in, and it should be quite the reliable one since VW puts it in so many platforms/models. But alas, the six-hot-pots-in-a-row from Munich is still quite the driving/ownership experience IMO (its M-tuned conunterparts too). Often imitated, never duplicated, and quite possibly one of the most charismatic and distincitve engine this side of a maranello 8. My two cents.
veekay1 - Short answer is, take the P205/50R17 tires if you can. Go to the tirerack.com and do add'l research on tires if interested.
sunnybrook - leather smells better and looks marginally more refined. I do like it better than vinyl but couldn't justify the price diff. It's all a function of how much you want to spend, they are both good, though. There are no must-have options for the 3-series, it's a great car even as a stripper (no, not that kind of stripper). Here's my personal order of preference but do your own research: sp, cd, xenons, heated seats, hk, leather, then whatever's left. The suspension on the SP is the same as the M3, need I say anything else? It'd be worth the money even for the seats only.
carguy5000 - I'll have to agree that the 1.8T transmits a bit more noise and tiny vibrations through the gas pedal and shifter. Doesn't bother me but the 2.8 would be more subdued, agreed. The engine is still a marvel, though (Top 10 engines of the year from Ward - right up there with the BMW 330 and Audi 2.7T) - once you get the turbo boiling at 1,850 rpms, it holds a flat max (truly amazing!!) torque curve all the way through 5,000 rpms. I can't think of another engine that does that and this is a $27K car we're talking about. As far as styling, the new A4 is fresher, a bit less feminized but it'll take me time to truly like a downsized A6 (call me old-fashioned). +++
Actually the Audi sport sedans with their legandary Quattro system have a LOT of things going for them. If you were to compare the 3er and the A4 (outgoing and the 2002 I guess) strictly on paper and also by sitting in them at showrooms/auto shows you might think dollar for dollar and pound for pound the Audi is a fantastic car purchase over the 3er. From the long std equipment to the most gorgeous high quality and nice detailed german interiors in the market (arguably finer than MB with BMW a close second) there are many compelling reasons for the Audis.
But as I tried to argue earlier, there is an intangible advantage for the 3er (for BMWs in general actually) that is hard to quantify objectively. BMWs just have that extra feel in going, stopping and turning that cannot be measured by numbers and put forth by marketing types as selling points on the brochure. It is a feeling that makes you almost forget the paltry std equipment, the long and expensive options list, the indifferent and arrogant dealer treatment (some) and the negative impression of the Bimmer as a snob mobile. It is a feeling you get years down the line, every time you drive the car, after the excitement of electric doodads, gee-whiz navigation systems, and badge-engineered prestige dies down in other cars, that still put the smile on your face. Ask anybody around here. :-)
I purchased my 325i in February. Notwithstanding all of the reading and comparisons I did (and they were extensive), I never once saw reference to any 3's being manufactured in South Africa. I bought my car from a dealership that had it shipped in from another dealership out of state. When I picked the car up, it was already prepped and the manufacturer's sticker was already removed, so I never noticed the disclosure that the final assembly point was Rosslyn, South Africa. Plus, I did not even know to ask the question about where it was made because I just assumed it was Munich. I didn't find out that it was made in S.A. until Friday after reading this board. Somehow, despite caveat emptor, I'm feeling somewhat deceived, and am considering trading for a 330, which, I understand, are all manufactured in Munich.
Despite that the car is only 3 months old with fewer than 3,000 miles on it, the dealer where I purchased it from offered me a whopping $7,000 LESS than I purchase it for. A Mercedes dealer actually offered me a whole lot more for a trade. Does anyone have any insight into whether the 3s made in S.A. are of equal quality to those made in Munich? My thought is that the plant there is too new (only a year or less) and doesn't have a long enough history to know its quality control. Somehow, I feel it's less of a BMW because of where it was made and I'm skeptical about its quality relative to German built BMWs.
bmwvadriver: As you know there has been on-going debates over SA 'assembled' cars as being a lesser 3er. Actually, I was wondering the same thing and look forward to hearing responses on your question. I do not think there is a significant deterioration in quality as BMW being BMW, must have implemmented stringent production controls as well as quality controls. I am thinking of the success of BMW's SC plant which assembles the world's supply of Z3s as well as X5s. I think they did a good enough job keeping quality control as opposed to MB's Alabama production facility (i.e. MB-ML class). I could imagine that some new proud owner of a z3 or x5 in Europe (or anywhere else in the world) must have similar thoughts i.e. that the german auto they just bought is less of a car as it was assembled in the US a land famous for GM and Chrysler autos...IMO
Also, if you are not experiencing any problems with your current ride, why take a bath with depreciation and tax by trading it in. Surely any niggles will be promptly addressed by BMW's warranty. My 2 cents....just enjoy the car.
dc_75 - Your writing is better than some automotive journalists', esp. some of the younger staff. When are you gonna come out and admit you are Csaba Csere (has anyone figured out how to pronounce this yet?) posting to the board in his spare time.
I'm glad all of us on this board realize that BMW's magic is worth a healthy premium over competing models. You are absolutely right - some things you can't quantify: BMW's engine charizma and humming sound, the exhilirating feeling from cornering, the connection you make with the road, and esp. the huge grin on your face that they all translate into. Can happiness be quantified? BTW, there is only one side of the Maranello 8 and all cars are on this side. Almost all of them are on this side of the 3-series : O ) +++
DC_75 - thanks for that answer. I had gotten the impression their might be a small difference in appearance of a Euro Delivery car because of a (much) earlier post which mentioned the "just took a wrong turn on the Autobahn" look.
Also, what about the price difference -- you get $1500 lower MSRP, but do you have to then pay separate shipping back to the U.S. or is the Freight charge already paid in the upfront cost of the car?
Thanks, dc_75. My car actually has too few miles on it to really get an idea about quality. I do have an issue with the brake pedal and the rubber strip in the front bumper, both of which I need to get taken care of. Neither of these problems, that I know of, is serious, but who knows how the car will do long term.
The difference with the Z3s and the X5s is that they all are manufacturered in South Carolina, so at least people buying them know that up front. When buying a 325, the car could be manufactured in Munich or in South Africa. Unfortunately, back in February, I didn't realize that fact and it seems BMW has done a great job in covering it up.
The trade-in offer from my dealer was about $4,000 less than what NADA and Edmunds both say a 2000 model is worth (mine is a 2001), so their offer was laughable. They already made a profit on me the first time; now they're trying to completely rip me off with an offer like that.
But, you are right, I won't take that kind of a bath on depreciation, and the car definitely is a pleasure to drive. If I can't get a decent deal on selling/trading it, then I'll enjoy the car and try not to think about its place of manufacture.
I didn't notice any replies to your question, so hopefully I'm not duplicating answers. I posted a question on this about a month ago and didn't get an answer, so I took the car to the service department to get it checked. It turned out to be the fuel pump and is normal (they started a couple of other new cars to show me). I thought it sounded kind of like a quiet refrigerator running. It sounded like it was coming from under the car about mid-way back (under rear seats) and it could only be heard from outside the car. If this fits your sound, it is probably nothing to worry about.
Don't be crazy, south africa and munich build are the same. It is a bmw! Come on, don't trade in your car and lose all that money just to say you bought a bmw that was built in German! 80 percent of parts are built in german, only 20 percent are assembled in south africa. Those assembled are computerized, the same computer that are in the munich plant. Besides this, the car is warrantee anyway. BTW: you can have a 325 and request them to be built in german with 0145 build request that the dealer send to bmw.
I bought my 325 and did not realize it can be built in German, i was under the impression it was built only in SA; and i was okay with it. But for some reason, mine was be built in German. The only downside to SA build is that the ship vessel leaves the port in SA slower then a turtle would!
I love the tires, especially in the "smaller sizes", but I have had a 245/45/ZR 16 delaminate at 2500 mi and the replacement had tread separation at 1700 mi: fortunately, Discount tire replaced both for $12.- $25. I am beginning to wonder if the BBS RS 3 pc forged wheels, which are so ridiculously overengineered and way strong may have contributed. I just bought a '02 Subaru WRX 5 sp 227 hp Wagon - the Soobie guys (www.i-club.com) seem to like the very inexpensive Kumho Ecsta Supra (see Tire Rack pricing). M
Anyone here who have more info on the radiator fan that is apparently bad on some cars? Do you know what series exactly is having this? When? When was it fixed? and such info?
I am getting my car with production date of 4/11 and was wondering if they caught this or should i be very observing of the temp gauge?
Comments
Here's what a well-respected car enthusiast friend of mine wrote to me today:
'My suggestion is you keep to the stock tires & see how they hold up in the snow. What brand/model are they? I seem to remember that BMW come with bridgestone or continentals? If you have a choice I'd get Dunlops or BFGoodrich's.
I drove through some pretty bad snow with the tires I had, which are z rated tires similar to the ones you are getting. The worked reasonably well, though there was some additional slippage over regular, less wide tires, but not enough to justify sacrificing the advantage they give you in normal dry or rain conditions.
In any case, most times the road are plowed, so buying expensive snow tires for that week or so that you might need them seems like a questionable investment. Also, performance on regular roads really suffers with snow tires. Get an AAA memebership if you are worried about getting stuck, if you haven't done so already - or drive your quattro. Either will save you considerable money.'
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jk
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"Wailea" is the place I got married (Grand Wailea Resort). I agree with you - the south side (gold coast) of Maui is the best area.
We did the Road to Hanna - that was an unforgettbale experience. I wish I had a Bimmer on that narrow winding road instead of a POS Grand Am. Even so, I'd do that road any day in any car and still love it!
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One caveat though on the driving the Road to Hana or, for that matter, up to Haleakala in a BMW - OPEN ROAD!!
Ok, you got me, I was just sneaking in for a peek into C-class ownership...as a C-240 is also in my budget, but a bimmer is still a bimmer. I'm over that now. phew.
As soon as I evaluate the value of the 2002MY changes, I will be looking into ordering the 325ci topaz/blue, cd, xenon, sunroof and sport package soon, also might still look into the 325xi...as my wife is still concerned about winter driving. She reckoned that xi plus winter tires plus DSC/ABS will be one helluva setup....for the miles of snow plowed roads she'll encounter here in Grand Rapids, MI. :-) Oh well, what can you say.
To drivers/owners of the xi...how do you rate the reliability/performance/value of the awd. Also does the xi still gives you that 3er feeling? A little concerned about xi reliability after reading unboringguy's account of his 330xi and such. Whats the general consensus on perceived long-term reliability of the xi? Is the awd system (together with its DSC-X) transplanted from the x5 or are there marked differences.? I know BMW's intial foray into an awd 3 i.e. the 325ix was a brief one, but some ppl swear by the systems reliability. Any opinions on the xi in relative to the ix?
Since this is my first bimmer purchase, what are your thoughts of resale value in 5 years? I figure if I buy the car cash (say about 35k) now, make monthly payments into a money market account (for the price of the car) for five years, then I will have enough plus trade (35k plus 17.5k-assuming 50% depreciation over 5 years) to upgrade to a 530i/540i. Then I'll do the same thing all over again, and move up to the 740i/M5..eventually ending up with a Z.8 (oh in about 30 over years :-)...*dreaming*
By the way, I think 50% residual after 5 years on any car (incl. the 3-series) is unrealistic.
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To find out where you car was built, check the following link:
http://www.e46fanatics.com/faq/
scroll down to the pricing information to find out
I have just recently picked up my 330xi on Thursday and I have thoroughly enjoyed it so far.
I can't say much about the reliability since this is also my first BMW, but I can tell you this regarding the performance, it definitely satisfies my expectations and I haven't even tested this car to its fullest potential due to the break-in period.
Regarding resale value, to tell you the truth I personally don't really care. I plan to own this car for a long time and put a lot of miles on it.
Now that might change when the M4 comes out in 2005(or is it 2006).....:)
Still leaning towards the Ci, mentioned the Xi to appease my wife who wants awd....*sigh*
I guess you're right about 5 yr residuals....I meant to put 3 years actually....was thinking about 5 yrs on another topic.... :-)
I am a newbie, but I am wondering if any 330xi owners having a radiator problem. I have about 500 miles on my 01 330xi. While I was waiting for a traffic signal to change, I saw smoke coming under the hood! I immediately pulled car off and turned it off!
It's in a service department, but I haven't talked to them since it is still a weekend. I will let you know what happened, if you are interested, but I would like to know if anybody has run into this problem.
This experience has baffled me!
I also asked lots of questions about reliability. Learned that AWD is not a new concept at BMW. BMW has apparently been making AWD models for sale in Europe for many years; however, they only offered this feature on a few cars marketed in the USA during the late 1980s/early 1990s. They dropped AWD from the USA market because those cars didn't sell all that well here, presumably because there wasn't a really big demand for them at that time. Of course, that has now changed, and the xi's are selling very well. I'm personally very confident that there won't be any nagging reliability issues.
A4: I obviously agree that the bmw is a better car. That's why I'm here. But, if you're comparing cars, the 2.8 is roughly the same price as the 325 assuming any options. I'll be interested in the new A4 when it arrives here but my guess is I'll still prefer the bimmer's rwd.
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langley2: If I am not mistaken, BMW also made a 525iX early 90s...I am not doubting BMW's AWD tech, but I understand the Xi's awd is different i.e. less mechanical, more high tech/electronics than the old iX's of late 80s and early 90s. Is the Xi's underpinnings an almost direct transplant off the X5?
About reliability, is the overheating/radiator problem inherent in most Xis? That is why I posed the question of Xi reliability earlier on....yet another post on overheating. I know the problem is in the cooling not the awd system itself...but I was just curious...
I have no doubt the BMW will have ironed out the creases on the Xi's but its interesting to know, right now, with the help of new Xi owners who frequent this fine forum, what teething problems the Xis have and how they feel about them. Both curiousity and potential purchase interest drives me to pose this question, also to get the ball rolling.... :-)
jk
I'll take the RWD over AWD any day, unless I lived somewhere in the Arctic or something. I even love sliding the RWD in snow but again, that's me; most drivers would think I'm nuts for saying that and I don't care because I'm not an average driver. You are right about the 2.8 being about the same price as the 325xi. My point, though, is that it's reasonable to compare the 1.8T 170 HP A4 to the 325xi. The Bimmer has 15 more HP but is also about 250 lbs heavier in AWD trim and they are very close performance-wise.
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I have ordered a 325xi Black Sapphire Metallic/gray leather, and plan to install the above. (I would have gone with the dealer installed stuff but it seems that is always overpriced).
Thanks for any comments.
Having personal experience with the 1.8t vs. 2.8 delema, I chose the latter due to one thing-noise, or lack of it. The 1.8t has plenty of grunt, but you know it is working up there where as the 2.8 is much smoother.
Which one is better?
Which one has a wider tread and rim diameter?
Can I opt for either one at delivery or is there no choice here?
Thanks in advance! This forum rocks!
Veekay1.
Specifically, does a Euro Delivery BMW look different from a North American one? How?
What about price? From reading earlier posts, I understand the MSRP is about $1500 less for a Euro Delivery but what about shipping back to the U.S.? Is the shipping included or do you have to add that back on the the $1500 or so that you saved?
veekay1: The 17inchers are part of the Xi sport package, which includes sport seats and steering wheel but does not include sport tuned suspension, hence the sport pac for the Xi is cheaper than the ones for the RWD BMW. As you may already know, the Xi rides a little taller...for clearance (?). The 17inchers are a bigger (taller) rim than 16 inch and may give you a trifle bit more feel and of course better aesthetics (depends on your POV, of course). SInce the suspension tuning is the same, is a toss up between the two, of course some fine posters in this forum swear by the advantages of the sport seats that come with the sport pac...your choice. I think it could be cheaper to order the sport pac when ordering rather than piecemeal a dealer-installed option after delivery.
Also, maybe you should consider the alarm option once more. The BMW alarm could be bought for less than its 300 dollars list price on the net and installation could be negotiated into your deal upon delivery. Every 3er is wired for the BMW alarm, so installation is relatively easy (even for inexperienced DIYers), you only need to ask your dealer to program it. Check out e46fanatics.com's FAQ for installation instructions. As the BMW is wired for the alarm, the BMW alarm integrates very well into the car's electronics as well as with the car's Key Memory system which you can customize to your liking, again check out the FAQ. Also, for the price, the BMW alarm includes tilt sensor as well as motion sensor and also gives that infamous 'clown nose' on your rear view mirror as function. As for the CD player I think there are only a few CD players on the market that is compatible...ask alpine325i, he has the 411 on audio apps...
sunnybrook: there has been lenghty debates (friendly not like other forums) over leather v. leatherette, so I'll try summarize...the leatherette looks like leather, feels almost like leather, requires far less maintenance, and costs less-better to buy the sport pac instead. On the other hand, leather smells nices, could be softer (dependent on proper conditioning and cleaning) and is more fitting of a mid-30k car (the last point is debatable). I think they both perform similarly in hot/cold weather so heated seats (if youre in a cold clime) is a worthwhile consideration. If you are buying the sedan the sport pac is a definite plus. Besides the rather nice looking 17inch wheels and the sport wheel/seats, the suspension is also sport tuned, giving you better feel/grip/road handling over the standard set up. If you are buying the Ci (coupe), then the sport pac is not too necessary as the coupe's std setup is the sedan's sport set up. Again, its dependent on your needs in a vehicle. A LARGE number of people believe wholeheartedly that the sport pac makes/completes the sedan, more than any other option on BMW rather lenghty list and is more in tune with the philosophy of the 3er. btw the sport pac, contrary to most believe does not dramatically affect ride comfort or refinement.
postoak: ED cars are US-spec cars in every detail. The advantages of the ED, besides the discount is a great opportunity to visit you car's birthplace and to drive in on the very roads that have inspired BMW to make their cars as good as they are today. So the advantages is a great vacation opp as well as discounted price, the disadvs is that you have to wait a couple of weeks for your car to re-join you stateside.
Veekay 1: The 205 width is the same for both. I assume the 17" is the sport package wheel and so would would have to decide at ordering. There have been a lot of comments about sport packages and I could add my own but since I've never driven or even looked at an "x" I won't.
A4: Brave1heart, I see your point about performance. I was comparing the rwd bmw to the quattro audi. I agree with dc75 that the inline six far outshines any of the audi engines. I don't know that I think the I4 is any more attractive than the others. I think it just hit the right pricepoint and that's why it's sold so well.
sunnybrook - leather smells better and looks marginally more refined. I do like it better than vinyl but couldn't justify the price diff. It's all a function of how much you want to spend, they are both good, though. There are no must-have options for the 3-series, it's a great car even as a stripper (no, not that kind of stripper). Here's my personal order of preference but do your own research: sp, cd, xenons, heated seats, hk, leather, then whatever's left. The suspension on the SP is the same as the M3, need I say anything else? It'd be worth the money even for the seats only.
carguy5000 - I'll have to agree that the 1.8T transmits a bit more noise and tiny vibrations through the gas pedal and shifter. Doesn't bother me but the 2.8 would be more subdued, agreed. The engine is still a marvel, though (Top 10 engines of the year from Ward - right up there with the BMW 330 and Audi 2.7T) - once you get the turbo boiling at 1,850 rpms, it holds a flat max (truly amazing!!) torque curve all the way through 5,000 rpms. I can't think of another engine that does that and this is a $27K car we're talking about. As far as styling, the new A4 is fresher, a bit less feminized but it'll take me time to truly like a downsized A6 (call me old-fashioned).
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But as I tried to argue earlier, there is an intangible advantage for the 3er (for BMWs in general actually) that is hard to quantify objectively. BMWs just have that extra feel in going, stopping and turning that cannot be measured by numbers and put forth by marketing types as selling points on the brochure. It is a feeling that makes you almost forget the paltry std equipment, the long and expensive options list, the indifferent and arrogant dealer treatment (some) and the negative impression of the Bimmer as a snob mobile. It is a feeling you get years down the line, every time you drive the car, after the excitement of electric doodads, gee-whiz navigation systems, and badge-engineered prestige dies down in other cars, that still put the smile on your face. Ask anybody around here. :-)
Despite that the car is only 3 months old with fewer than 3,000 miles on it, the dealer where I purchased it from offered me a whopping $7,000 LESS than I purchase it for. A Mercedes dealer actually offered me a whole lot more for a trade. Does anyone have any insight into whether the 3s made in S.A. are of equal quality to those made in Munich? My thought is that the plant there is too new (only a year or less) and doesn't have a long enough history to know its quality control. Somehow, I feel it's less of a BMW because of where it was made and I'm skeptical about its quality relative to German built BMWs.
Also, if you are not experiencing any problems with your current ride, why take a bath with depreciation and tax by trading it in. Surely any niggles will be promptly addressed by BMW's warranty. My 2 cents....just enjoy the car.
I'm glad all of us on this board realize that BMW's magic is worth a healthy premium over competing models. You are absolutely right - some things you can't quantify: BMW's engine charizma and humming sound, the exhilirating feeling from cornering, the connection you make with the road, and esp. the huge grin on your face that they all translate into. Can happiness be quantified?
BTW, there is only one side of the Maranello 8 and all cars are on this side. Almost all of them are on this side of the 3-series : O )
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Also, what about the price difference -- you get $1500 lower MSRP, but do you have to then pay separate shipping back to the U.S. or is the Freight charge already paid in the upfront cost of the car?
The difference with the Z3s and the X5s is that they all are manufacturered in South Carolina, so at least people buying them know that up front. When buying a 325, the car could be manufactured in Munich or in South Africa. Unfortunately, back in February, I didn't realize that fact and it seems BMW has done a great job in covering it up.
The trade-in offer from my dealer was about $4,000 less than what NADA and Edmunds both say a 2000 model is worth (mine is a 2001), so their offer was laughable. They already made a profit on me the first time; now they're trying to completely rip me off with an offer like that.
But, you are right, I won't take that kind of a bath on depreciation, and the car definitely is a pleasure to drive. If I can't get a decent deal on selling/trading it, then I'll enjoy the car and try not to think about its place of manufacture.
BTW: you can have a 325 and request them to be built in german with 0145 build request that the dealer send to bmw.
I bought my 325 and did not realize it can be built in German, i was under the impression it was built only in SA; and i was okay with it. But for some reason, mine was be built in German. The only downside to SA build is that the ship vessel leaves the port in SA slower then a turtle would!
I am getting my car with production date of 4/11 and was wondering if they caught this or should i be very observing of the temp gauge?