BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

burrsr · June 2001

I think you may have confused Shipo and me -- we look the same from a distance.

One of the reasone I wanted to test drive the 330xi is to to a seat-of-the-pants comparison to my non-AWD 330i. Both cars carried nearly-identical options (PP, Step), but the 330xi also had the SP (but no CD). Acceleration felt the same, as did handling. But this was a dry, sunny 80+ degree day. I felt no noticeable SP difference in either ride nor handling, but the cars wear identical rubber, I believe. I did like the SP seats better, but on the 330xi, that's pretty much what the added cost covers (and 3-spoke steering wheel, different wheel design). I did notice a slightly different audible frequency/whine from the driveline -- probably due to the additional rotating pieces that the AWD has vs. the RWD. But that's about it, in a nutshell. I'd imagine the difference becomes MUCH more obvious in inclement conditions.

qtipsquire · June 2001

Does anyone know if they've kicked down the money factor again...just noticed that Cars Direct can now beat the lease I signed up for and they didn't used to be close???

mfeldman · June 2001

A while ago a noted that my steering provides more resistance (a good amount0 on right turns than on left turns(too light). THe difference is particularly noticeable on gentle 20 degree turns. It does not appear tot be an alignment problem because the car tracks relatively straight -- although with sp and "new-new" steering it does like to follow grooves in the road. Today a fellow 3 owner drove my car and noticed the same thing, so I feel secure that it's not in my head. I guess I'll visit he dealer. Hopefully they won't tell me they can't duplicate the problem.

qtipsquire · June 2001

Does anyone know if they've kicked down the money factor again...just noticed that Cars Direct can now beat the lease I signed up for and they didn't used to be close???

suv16 · June 2001

brave1heart · June 2001

then wash and shine everything, then put it back together and try to have a life in the meantime if I am ahead of my waxing schedule

)

denright · June 2001

Yes, got you two confused. Sorry.

Burrsr, thanks a lot for the recount of your experiences. I found them enlightening.

L8_Apex · June 2001

... this brief interruption.

As quickly as this topic moves, it's easy for posts to get lost in the shuffle and, in some cases, that may be a good thing. Although I'd prefer it that everybody's forgotten about the recently deleted posts, I'd like to clarify the position of Pat and I on this subject.

There may be some confusion as to language that is allowed and language that isn't. In the past, hosts enforced a "guideline" to a degree that they thought appropriate. Naturally, this created some variance from board to board. To eliminate confusion and address concerns that were raised by some members, a more defined policy was created and the hosts were asked to more uniformly apply it. I apologize for any confusion caused by this change as it does differ from the rule-of-thumb I've applied over the last few years.

It should be noted that this is not something that was implemented just recently. We were asked to start applying these rules last fall, prior to the first failed attempt to move to the new discussion software. In a number of cases, I sent emails to long-time members who posted somewhat inappropriate material informing them of the change and, without removing their post, informing them that, going forward, I'd have to remove similar material. Unless the post is completely off-topic, abusive, etc., we always include it with the email along with an invitation to kindly edit and re-post.

I don't think we can be faulted for not accomodating you with regards to confusion anybody might have regarding why any posts were removed. If any of you have corresponded with Pat or I, you know that in most cases we'll take more than enough time to explain our position and reconsider our actions if necessary. Again, post removals were accompanied by an email contain both the post and an invitation to edit and re-post.

I also apologize for posts that might slip under that wire. The hosts are required to read each and every new post in every discussion on their board, every day. It's only expected that, from time to time, we'll miss something that should be removed. If you notify us, we'll gladly look into it.

For the most part, Pat and I can count on this topic to be problem-free, on-topic and a great source of information for owners and buyers. Having three friends who recently purchased (well... one of them, his M3 is due Sat.) BMW's, I refer them to this topic (among other resources) for it's generally helpful and knowledgeable atmosphere. For that, thanks.

That being said, I'd like to make it clear that you are most welcome to address issues regarding topic management off-line. Pat and I will take the time necessary to explain our actions and reconsider if necessary but don't want to make the topic the place for disputing our actions.

Thanks for your time and understanding,

L8_Apex

Host

Sedans Message Board

koaladude · June 2001

If you live in a snowy area **and** plan to still drive your bimmer during the winter, you will put on snow tires, right?! The question is: Can you do that? And don't you need new wheels?

I think the set up is like this: Front 17x7.5, 225/45 ZR17, Rear 17X8.5, 245/40 ZR-17 (so that's 2 different sizes and big sizes at that!) I called and talked to a tirerack.com guy but he was relatively vague about it. Some dealers tell me I can get away without a new set wheels (only tires), others say I won't and will need a new set but those can be steel ones (yikes!)... I don't know who to believe. :-(

My "problem" is that I just ordered an Orient blue 330xi with tan leather but I still can change a few stuff around for the next few days (according to my dealer). So I figured that instead of leather I could maybe go with SP.

PROS are: they (SP vs leather) go for about the same price here in Canada (~$Can 2200), 'ette is perfectly OK, I'm not sure I like the radial spoke, I like the M double ones, I like the sport seats and steering wheel.

CONS: if I need to buy (nice) wheels on top of the mandatory winter tires, the equation is not the same anymore.

Knowledgeable help appreciated :-)

kominsky · June 2001

I corresponded with AJ from TireRack last summer before I got my car. He told me that I could put 225/45-17's on front and rear with the OEM sport wheels (7.5" and 8.5") or I could get a tire/wheel package with 205/50/17 snow tires. The price at that time was $1,350(US) for the package. The wheels were ATP Type-5's which look just like the 5-spoke E36 M3 wheels.

hippo168 · June 2001

I know there are 225/45-R17 snows tires from Bridgestone and Dunlop, check out their respective websites... I dont think Tirerack has snow tires of this size though, or they are not showing them on their site.

I'd think that we can definitely get a set from other tire places beside Tirerack. Actually, that's what I'm planning to do if I get the 325i w/SP.

bmwagonmaster · June 2001

Glad to hear you're finally getting your wagon! Are you still going to do the CD changer install yourself? I had a previous reply (3309) for your original installation question, but wasn't sure if you ever saw it. If you need info, just ask.

koaladude · June 2001

kominsky,

Thanks for the advice. Which did you chose: 225/45-17 with OE wheels or new tire/wheel pack with 205/50-17? If you went with the 1st option isn't it a not-so ideal choice (ie a compromise) in terms of tire/wheel fit or is it perfectly OK?

hippo,

Just checked Bridgestone site and indeed they got Blizzak LM22 at 225/45-17 and even 245/40-17! The question I guess will be whether any locals here will have those....Hmmmm

daswolf · June 2001

Thanks for your quick response. Sorry I didn't have a chance to read it until now. I'm going to call Mary Galvin and give it a shot. I'll be sure to mention how I got her name. I think your a perfect example of how dealing fairly with a buyer results in more business. I really appreciate your offer to help with the process and I'll keep you posted on how things go.

shipo · June 2001

I think there is a little confusion here, you said that you ordered a 330xi. If that is accurate, the SP will NOT have the different tire sizes front/rear, instead, you will have the standard 205/50R-17 all-season tires just like the standard 330i. In this case, you should not need snow tires at all.

Best Regards,
Shipo

denright · June 2001

Shipo is correct. The AWD SP doesn't change the tires or the suspension on the 330xi. It is all cosmetic, except for the sport seats.

Firebird_EOU · June 2001

Do you guys do it at home or bring the 4 tires to a shop and also do balancing at the same time? Can you really fit 4 tires in the trunk of the 330i?

shipo · June 2001

Last night dl7265 mentioned that his Turanza Er30 tires were almost worn out at 20K miles and that they had a treadwear rating of 120. I was rather shocked by how fast those tires have worn out. As a result, I felt compelled to check the treadwear rating for the Michelin tires on my 1999 328i. It turns out that the Michelins have a rating of 400, and as I mentioned last week, my tires still look basically brand new. Wow, big difference.

Best Regards,
Shipo

add123 · June 2001

I was advised today that my 330i was in. I went by to get a look and noticed that the headlight trim was black as is standard on the 325. The 330i should come standard with the titanium trim. I was advised that it should be taken care of by delivery. Has anyone had the same thing happen to them? Just curious.

add123

platypus · June 2001

My car is due in this Thursday or Friday. It does NOT have an alarm. It was my understanding that even without the alarm, the parking lights can still be made to flash when the doors are locked/unlocked. It was also my understanding that the clown nose can be made to blink while the car is locked.

My dealer is telling me otherwise. At least, that's what her first story was. She told me that the features I were requesting required the purchase of the alarm at $480 (parts/labor). I continued to insist otherwise until finally she asked a technician while I was on the phone. The tech. told her that they could do the parking lights for me, but not the clown nose.

Does this seem right? Thanks,

platypus

Firebird_EOU · June 2001

Do you guys do it at home or bring the 4 tires to a shop and also do balancing at the same time? Can you really fit 4 tires in the trunk of the 330i?

koaladude · June 2001

...thanks for all the input guys

Yes the 330xi SP comes with standard 205/50R-17 with all-season tires **in the US** but NOT in Canada (trust me I checked this thoroughly).

Options are different up here (see www.bmw.ca) and why they put the performance tires and different wheels size on the SP xi is a mystery to me. Perhaps they thought that most(?) of us canadians go for snow tires anyway in the winter.

Also I'm perfectly aware that SP is mostly an aesthetic choice for the AWD (except for the sport seats).

My rationale was that since I was prepared to go for leather, why not substitute that with SP since it's about the same price and I don't really care for leather anyway. But now if indeed I need a new set of wheels then the price rationalization doesn't work anymore (as my budget is capped)

eug · June 2001

Can you check on a 325ci Titanium, blk leather, manual, PP, SP, CD and going to Crevier BMW in Santa Ana, CA? I was status 150 last week. Thanks.

-eug

veekay1 · June 2001

Hey man!
I was very busy today; didnt get a chance to check on the ship...will do tomorrow. i am sure it docked today! lemme know if u hear anything.
veekay1

pilot16 · June 2001

Hey Gurumike, did Crevier BMW make you a good deal? I am looking for a BMW dealer in SoCal. Thanks.

bmw323is · June 2001

Shipo, you made me run down to my garage and look at the treadwear rating on my Conti's - it's 280. Are your Michelin's all season or sport tires? The 400 rating seems high for sport but maybe that is why Michelins cost more. I only have 6,500 miles, with two days at the track and my Conti's still look pretty new.

koaladude, I live in Colorado and we get plenty of snow. Most bimmmerites(?) here switch over to snows in the winter (at least the RWD ones). I haven't yet, since I have a second 4WD vehilce. However, the day will come when I will need to use the snows. I can't decide if it would be worth getting nice wheels or just steel rims and hub caps. Anyone have an opinion about nice wheels or just go with cheaper steel through the dirty winter?

firebird, can't get four tires in the trunk, not even 16" tires. That is one reason why it's nice to get another set of rims so you can just change over each season in your own garage. Otherwise it's the back seat (but not on my leather!).

twoof1 · June 2001

Thanks for posting your clarification of the "revised" guidelines. I think that now that you have clearly stated what is going on, it will be easier to stay within those guidelines. It's much easier to play by the rules when everybody knows what they are, and when they are consistently enforced.

jnscheong · June 2001

First of all, I think you got gurumike and eug confused. eug was asking gurumike to check on the status of his car. If I remember correctly, gurumike works for a BMW dealer in Santa Barbara.

Anyway, I did ordered my car (330i, Steel Grey/black leatherette, sports package, CD, xenon, floor mats, and alarm) through Crevier for $35175 before tax and license. Talk to Jerry Cohan, the fleet manager and tell him Stanley Cheong referred you.

dl7265 · June 2001

i actually thought it kinda odd that the 323i would have stickier rubber than your 328i, you do have the sport package correct ? I will probably get something a little harder since i have to shell out $$ , but not too hard don't want to change the dynamics too much.

Regards,
DL

eug · June 2001

Yes it was me. I was asking gurumike for a status check. I order through Crevier for invoice + $1500 from Gaby. However, it sounds like jnscheong got a better deal. Good luck.

Now where's gurumike at?

goody4 · June 2001

Apparently, the technician is correct.

Here are a couple of in-depth discussions regarding this topic. Be sure to read all of the follow-ups in these links.

clown nose 1

clown nose 2

denright · June 2001

I am getting a BWM alarm installed for $425, but I am getting it as a separate transaction after I buy the car. Why, you ask? Here's why:

In the US there is a luxury tax on cars costing over $38K. My car will run $38,475 as it is. Rather than have the alarm go further over the $38K threshhold, I will buy it in a separate transaction and save myself some tax $$$.

So, I have a question for the forum. How does one calculate the luxury tax on a car costing $38,475? What is the percentage? Does it apply to the entire purchase price or just the amount above and beyond $38K (in this case, $475)?

Any input appreciated.

burrsr · June 2001

Just make sure they put the correct ENGINE under the hood.

Denright - I was in a similar situation. The lux tax is calculated from the amount OVER $38,000, although I'm not sure of the exact percentage. Any updated lease calculation spreadsheet will have it in the formula bar area for the lux tax cell. Also, the lux tax is supposed to be gradually phased out (decreasing percentage to zero) by 2003.

No "Top 10 Hot Discussions" entry for us -- first time in a long time...

brave1heart · June 2001

The 300M is surprisingly quick for such a big car - I'm sure the 260 horses help. The car looks very funny, almost clownish, under hard acceleration, though. A friend of mine's wife has one of these - the dash layout and interior are pretty nice. I drove it once and it was surprisingly communicative for an American car that size. Not a match for a 325i manual, though, and that was picking up from the same S curve at about 50 mph; I suspect the difference off the start would be much bigger.

brave1heart · June 2001

I had to talk to Mary Galvin this morning because I am trying to arrange a date for my steering retrofit and the couple of cosmetic fixes I need to have done to my car. I told her about your situation and also asked her if she could give you the same deal as me: $1,300 off. She was hesitant at first but I convinced her that it would be unfair not to give you the same deal as mine almost 3 months later. She went to talk to the manager and called me back saying she'd give you that deal. Just give her a call and talk details. I gave her your name so she'd know and you won't have to go through the hassle of negotiating. The MSRP that she came up with was around 31.5K (I think I might've missed a couple of options) and she'd give you the same deal with that MSRP. A tip from me: I would not push for more than $1,300 off if I were you, even if your car's MSRP is higher than 31.5K. However, feel free to negotiate freebies like wheel locks, document preparation fee, low interest rate, 4-th year maintenance, and even a good deal on the BMW alarm if you're interested. Good luck, please let me know if there is anything else that I can help you with.

P.S. - don't tell her you talked to someone else at the dealership. She mentioned BTW that you can do the whole deal over the phone - you don't even have to go in.

gr8st8 · June 2001

burrsr is correct. The luxury tax is calculated from the amount over $38K.
In my case, the percentage is about 4%.

cccmd · June 2001

Luxury tax is 4% of the amount over 38k. In your case, 4% of $475.

BTW, we need more posts...we are not in the 'top 10 discussions' anymore

brave1heart · June 2001

denright - luxury tax only on the amt over 38K. that's 4% on top of the regular rate. don't have to wait till after you buy the car. just have the dealer charge your credit card as a separate purchase

koaladude - it seems that you are very confused about the sport package on the xi. awd cars require absolutely identical tires (tread pattern, size, everything) and i cannot believe any dealer anywhere would sell you an awd car that has different size tires front and rear. you do not need snows for awd - this is definitely overkill even if you are in toronto. as far as tire width, 245 would be too wide for driving in snow and i would not recommend them. the wider the tires, the less they would be able to dig into the snow for traction. just get your 330xi with the same setup as denright's - you won't go wrong with it.

fitting tires in the trunk - no, it's not a pickup truck. there's plenty of room in the back seat. if you are concerned about the leather, just buy a $5 cover that you can drape over the seats to use for transporting the tires (or anything else).

btw, shipo's 328 does not have the sp and his tires are made of harder compound that will last longer than any tires that come with the sp. the sp tires are more expensive and last about half the miles - still worth it in my mind but you do pay a huge premium for performance tires.

platypus - just get the alarm, you won't regret it. you saved a lot of money on the ed and should be able to afford it.

gurumike · June 2001

... had to go on Audi training course yesterday, kept me away from a PC until I got home last night...

mmcerio - is yours the Step AWD? That's the only steel grey 330 I saw for N. Haven, CT and it's in 111 at the moment. Ask me again in a week or so.

VPCs - approx 5-7 days plus however many days driving it is from your local dealer to New Jersey or S. Carolina or Oxnard.

eug - it's in 152 today, so it will be a finished car by the end of this week!

pilot16 - I'm afraid I can't answer your "deal" question on the board as I work in sales at a so cal dealer. You can email me (Michael@dcninternet.net). Are you a pilot? I was just about to get todays DUATS weather report before I go over to the airport this morning. I'll probably fly over to Oxnard to make touch and gos! I'm at 60 hours and I'm expecting I'll take the checkride with in 30 days now !!

One last thing.....

GO LAKERS !!! Whaa-hooo!! Look out Philly - here comes the steam roller !!

alpine325i · June 2001

The Lakers talk too much *beep*. Way too much *beep*.

brave1heart · June 2001

I have noticed that my 325i SP manual is much faster and smoother with 2,200 miles on it. The throttle response especially seems to be much quicker and it has less lag time. Do the drive-by-wire throttles as those found on the E46 have the ability to adapt to driver's style similarly to the way the step does?

brave1heart · June 2001

uge123 · June 2001

bmwwagonmaster: I can't wait! It's been since late April. Still, it's not too long. My car was "released to shipping" from the VPC on Monday PM. I hope to see it by the end of this week, but we're all at the mercy of trucking companies now. I'm really psyched! My wife and I are going to take a little trip one of these weekends and I'd LOVE to take the little wagon for a spin.

I'm still planning on installing a trunck CD player myself...but am now also considering the glove box mounted one, although I heard that that will eat up my entire glove box. I would have gotten the in dash, but many audio educational materials still come in tape form only. I did miss your post. Thanks for reminding me about it. I'll check it out!

snowtires: I live in Chicago and plan on buying snowtires in the original 325i size (205 55/16 I think) for my wagon. TireRack and mount them (Blizzaks, but I might opt for Alpins as they have much better dry road handling) on steel wheels with hubcaps for about $400. I'm pretty sure that they have them at the 330i size as well, as I was briefly considering a 330i sedan at one point.

I drove my mom's '84 500SEL (no traction control, no ABS), a car notorious for terrible winter handling, in the snow with Blizzaks this past winter in Chicago and it drove through snow and ice like it was dry. My only comment about the Blizzaks is that they are very squirmy on dry pavement and wear extremely fast if you leave them on in above freezing temperatures. Because you only _really_ need snow tires in Chicago maybe 5-10 days out of each winter (and my garage opens onto an unplowed gravel alleyway), I'm probably going to opt for the Michellin Alpin's, which, according to tests, have much better dry handling characterists and wear while sacrificing a small amount to ice and deep snow traction.

jpcbearden · June 2001

platypus-
Does your car need to go to Passport BMW first? Or just go straight to TX?
and anyone-
So far, Joern (my dealer rep.)hasn't asked me to sign a contract. He also said I won't get the production # until beginning of July. Does this sound right?
He said my car will be July production at the beginning. Then, last week he said it'll be August production. Do you know (or can you guess) what this indicates? (I told him as long as it makes to September 3rd pick-up, it will be fine.)
Any answers will be appreciated.
Thanks!

uge123 · June 2001

I went back and read your post 3309. I'm glad that you've had 9000 trouble free miles, as my job doesn't allow me much flexibility in getting things fixed, that being the reason I dumped my aging but lovable Integra. When your door lock switch broke, were you still able to unlock the car with the key FOB? Were there any other problems operating the car then? My car was also built at Regensberg. I wonder if they build all the wagons there.

Do you live in a snow area (I don't recall where you live)? How does the slightly tail heavy wagon handle in the snow? Have you used snow tires? With my SP and living in Chicago I will definitely be buying snow tires (even without SP, I am buying them).

mfeldman · June 2001

Almost had a chance to race an s4 yesterday until an suv interfered. I know it's faster on paper but I think the 330 would give it a run for the money. I'll have to wait till next time.

koaladude · June 2001

brave - I don't think I'm confused at all with the *canadian* sport package on the xi (but maybe BMW is!).

This option (330 xi SP) in Canada is similar to the 330i or 330ci SP option in the US (i.e. includes perf tires + different front-rear tire/wheel combo)

Trust me I wish it was like the US SP on the AWD xi where you get same size wheel/tires and all-seasons, a more logical proposition if you ask me.

Now you also get me worried when you say "awd cars require absolutely identical tires and i cannot believe any dealer ....". Care to elaborate ?

brave1heart · June 2001

I talked to Jeff from BMWNA this morning to check on my approximate steering retrofit schedule. He said that out of the 750 owners that have requested it, 200 have already received it and they are currently in the process of contacting the next batch of 200 owners. He said if I were in that list of 200 people, I would be contacted very soon. They will start processing the next batch of 200 requests in about a month, so it could technically take at least two more months.

brave1heart · June 2001

You said it all.

veekay1 · June 2001

For those who had their babies on the Jinsei Maru.....the ship docked yesterday...and the cars were offloaded ASAP and sent to the VPCs yesterday....!!!
Now, its the final leg, the trip to the dealer!!
Good luck!!

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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