Mercedes-Benz S-Class

nanostream · November 2001

In the coming months I plan to purchase a '00 or '01 S 430. I've tried to do my homework (reading the boards, the mercedes web site, car show, magazine reviews) and have no fear of negotiation. I've monitored the Starmark inventory within 100 miles of Boston to no avail. I'm looking for a special order color (Midnight Blue). At this point my best course of action seems to involve having a dealer shop the Florida auctions for a matching spec car coming off lease. My gut tells me there has to be a cheaper and more efficient way to nab one of these cars but I'm not aware of it. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

midwestmb · November 2001

there are a lot of deals out there...e-mail a number of dealers esp in the midwest (chicago, st. louis, michigan). The S430's a fantastic car. JMHO, you will probably find any '00 or '01 coming off lease to have a ton of miles - the low mile lease W220's aren't coming in yet. Might be better off searching for a screaming end of year deal on a new or demo '01. Admittedly you'll be hard pressed to find that specific color, but if you have some flexibility you may find a deal you can't pass up as I did. E-mail me offline if you want to talk details.

merckx · November 2001

Is Midnight Blue the non-meteliac paint that is standard on the lesser cars? If so,it will be fairly rare. Or is it called Black Opal,a very pretty dark navy blue that currently carries the $1,000 surcharge? If so,it,too, should be fairly rare.
If you want to buy a S430 at an attractive price,I would think you would want one one of the most common colors-you'll have more dealing leverage.
Typically,I see the S in silver,Desert Sand,black,and the metallic very dark grey/black.

nanostream · November 2001

Thanks for the input midwestmb and merckx. I really want the dark blue...admittedly, I'll lose some leverage. Haven't yet seen the Black Opal up close. It looks like I'm starting at 65K for a '01... minimal options (headlights and heated seats only) with 5-15K miles...a bit more for a Starmark.

Midnight Blue is a special order metallic paint that carries the surcharge as I understand it.

It's a great time to buy a used car in MA. Everyone here is waiting for a governor-sponsored tax free shopping week (including cars) that will probably not materialize due to a brain dead legislature. The good news is that the dealerships are empty as everyone waits to buy, and the used cars are piling up...albeit the GM's and Chryslers, but to a lesser degree the higher end sedans. The end of December might be a good time to strike a deal. Thoughts?

midwestmb · November 2001

65k for an '01 S430 with xenons and heated seats and very low miles sounds like a reasonable deal. I leased a new one with xenons, f/r heated seats, and side window shades in Oct and the cap cost (=selling price) was around $68k. When a local, temporary sales lull like what you're describing happens (especially at the end of the year), that's when you get deals on MBs. The dealers have a strong incentive to make unit numbers (on new cars) and get inventory off the books (used) before year end.

BTW what a dumb legislature...let's stimulate spending by having a tax-free week...oh wait, let's just announce the idea then argue over it...meanwhile all major purchases CEASE as people (naturally) wait to see if the duty free period is going to happen...keep govt out of economics.

ejerod · November 2001

I haven't posted for a while. I still have my 01 S500. Minimal problems to report. A tail lamp keeps going out so they finally ordered a new tail light assembly. A good friend of mine is trading in his 01 S430 for a new 02 E430. He just wasn't comfortable with all the high tech gagetry. I for one love this car. What's next ? Well I'll wait til 03 and pick up an SLR and/or a Maybach... Have fun and be safe people...

merc1 · November 2001

Must be nice......

M

brian125 · December 2001

looking for sum input on the clk 430 coupe.this will be my first benz.dont really know anyone who has a clk 430.Could somebody tell me if the body style is changing for 2003.on price, are they getting msrp,i never bought a new car for more than 500 over invoice. i read the reviewson the bmw 330 ci gets a great write up.dont know if i want to drop 55 grand on the clk 430 when the bmw330 ci might be all that for under 40 grand. thanks to all who respond.

jstyle · December 2001

Anyone have any info on the updated 2003 S-class regarding style changes or new models?? I am thinking the current model will be a great deal to buy used with the changes in the new model and the slower economy.

benznut · December 2001

I haven't come accross any piece of information regarding the facelifted S-Class. If anyone has any idea or knows any website where I can go, please let me know. Thank you in advance

scargo160quick · December 2001

7/01 update

See http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1310102666

jrosasmc · December 2001

Mercedes-Benz NA, please, please revive the good old days of the S-Class diesel and bring that engine back to the states in S350 form again!

dac06 · December 2001

Can anyone share their S600 ownership experience with me? I have a chance to buy one in mint condition with 20k miles. Is the car nearly as good as it looks? It is an 1999 -- Was there anything I should look out for inside or out with this model and year? Is the S600 worth the extra money or is it simply bragging rights?

merc1 · December 2001

Ahh...arguably the best car in the world at the time. The 1999 model would be best due to it being the last year, and all of the W140's bugs had been worked out. Though unless you really plan on opening up the V12 somewhere the S500 will do just fine. The V12 only truly shines when asked to accelerate while already in motion, then it's almost violent in it's ways. Naturally with this breed of Mercedes maintenance is expensive and repairs can be too. I would get all the warranty I could get on it for sure. This was and still is in my opinion the pinnacle of Mercedes-Benz engineering. The new S-Class while better looking just isn't put together as well. But this is all my opinion and observations, so you still need to talk with someone who has owned/lived with the car for some time.

M

mb_newbie · December 2001

"The best car in the world?"; interesting subject/question. Used to be complicate and hard to find the answer for me, but my wife found "the answer" for me one day:"It is the one in your garage now". Guess what, I think she is right. This world change so fast, so is the car industry; besides that, people buy car for their own reason(s) (speed, finance, colour, brand name...). I don't expect other people to like my choice, but I respect their choices.
The car sitting in my garage now is a CL600, it is not as fast as, well, a lot of other cars, it is also not as fancy as, again, a lot of other cars, but it is the best car in the world "for me" (now).

-- mb_newbie

merc1 · December 2001

Naturally I have no problem with a CL600 being thought of as the best. A V12 Benz is just special.

M

mbnut1 · December 2001

A CL600 can sit in my garage anytime it wants

mb_newbie · December 2001

It is good to know there are people have the same feeling with this V12 beautiful beast. Another thing that I forgot to mentioned: Merc1, you are right, the S500 will do just fine (even S430, which I had earlier, can handle the normal situation 99% of the time; the 1% of time is when you feel your car has been "challenged" by others). As for V12, what I believe (for my CL600), 99.9% of the time it only use half of V12 (the other half has been shut down automatically because computer "think" or "calculate" that I don't need the full power, so it decide to save some gas). However, when I need the acceleration, there is no delay, and it just give me the "roller coaster" feeling right away (i.e.: you feel you have been pushed back toward your seat).

-- mb_newbie

mb_newbie · December 2001

By the way, I had been told by service manager that the reason why so expensive to "operate" or "fix" a V12 is because the "tight" engine bay area. "Almost" every time they want to fix some major parts in the engine area, they have to take out the engine then put it back (does not mean the engine has problem, they just need to take it out in order to work on something else)which takes a lot of time. (time = money)
Like what Merc1 mentioned, the service manager recommended me to get whatever warranty available for the V12.

p.s.: Actually, if you plan to own any MB for a long time, extended warranty is a must; recently, I had been "invited" to look a brand new C240 being "stripped off" due to some electronic issues. The experienced technician knows how to fix it in a "easy" way, but the MB "regulation book" insist him to take out everything (door panel, seats, carpet, floor...) and rewire the cable. (well, needless to say, it takes time, other words, it costs money).

-- mb_newbie

-- mb_newbie

jorloff · December 2001

Hello;
I have found a 1995 S320 (49,000 miles) for sale for $25,000.00. Could someone please advise on the pros/cons of this model? I thought that I liked my Lincoln LS but after driving this car...

merckx · December 2001

It does come in two wheelbases,you know. The extra space is all in the back seat. Some will say this large car is too slow with the six cylinder,but my sister has ons,and I think the power is acceptable. A/C problems to the tune of $2,000 are VERY common. Upon introduction,some(esp, in Europe)thought the car overkill-too heavy,tall,and wide. So when my sis got hers,I was expecting to be unimpressed. Boy,was I wrong! I think it a magnificient car. Solid,tracks on rails,supremely comfortable in that hard,flinty Germanic way. The price seems low,too. But all will tell you to be espically-repairs on this beauty are expensive. Its straight 6 engine is thought to be very stout.

cmcgahee · December 2001

Ihad a 1995 S320 for 3 years on a lease. It was a great car. Turned it in at the end of the lease, but have wished many times I had bought it. It was a long wheelbase version and back seat riders often said it was the most comfortable ride they ever had. Power is not up to V-8 standards on takeoff from stop, but once it gets going, it will run plenty fast.

mlbarnes · December 2001

I have an extra #8 cd. If your are interest please post!

platinum_1 · January 2002

Hey ppl , I need opinions on thses two things , firstly should get an S320CDI ( will be replaced in 2005) or should i go for the E-Class ( will be replaced in 2009 ) which will start to be delivered in March . Secondly , should I get the SL or should i wait for the CLK ( December 2002) which also comes with a folding steel roof like the sl but can properly seat 4 people .

nanostream · January 2002

I'll be picking up an S430 from a dealer in the near future. Is there anything particular I should request other than a quick review of the gadgetry before I leave the dearship?

Many thanks,
nano

nanostream · January 2002

You mentioned a Jeep checklist that might be good for review when I pick up my 430 at the dealership. Unfortunately I couldn't grab the link out of the live chat window. Could you repost it please?

thanks,
nano

jstyle · January 2002

Just thought I'd see if anyone knows what the changes to the major upgrade to the S-class/CL-class cars will be. It is very hard to get info, even rumors. Anyone heard of a major interior upgrade/redesign.

roger23 · January 2002

I now have a 2001 S500 with sport package. Just ordered (i.e. put on the wait list ) for a 2003 S55 AMG. From a very reliable source, it will have the 476hp supercharged engine, plus, all 2003 S Classes will have restyled front and rear bumpers,with the major revisions being interior related (all new interior). It will also be updated with the latest technology new to the 2003 SL and E class.

raymmer · January 2002

Picked up a 2000 S-500 today and I am still beaming over it! The drive home(150 miles) was great! Looking forward to some great years with the car!

RRS

roger23 · January 2002

Congrats on your S500! You are going to love it. If you have any questions or concerns you can post here. There are many well informed MB owners on this site who would be glad to help.

platinum_1 · February 2002

er .... how come there are no replies from message 975 ?

nanostream · February 2002

Any thoughts on whether the teflon coating applied in the Simoniz process is worth it? Supposedly it protects the paint finish from fading, birds, acid rain, tree sap, vomiting children, etc.

Along a similar line they have a translucent protective bonding apron to minimize dings and scratches over the front end of the car from gravel kick up.

Any experience with either of these products?

Thanks,
nano

chapman7 · February 2002

Roger 23: How reliable is your "reliable source" that told you the 2003 model is going to have the supercharged engine and the other interior and exterior improvements? The dealer that I deal with tells me that these items will not appear until the 2004 model S55. I am wondering which source has their facts straight.

roger23 · February 2002

Please send me your E-Mail address.I don't want to get into the 'he said/she said' debate on this forum. Thanks. P.S. I know I am right.

chapman7 · February 2002

My e-mail address is r.m.chapman@att.net
Thanks for your help.

sean2g · February 2002

Could you drop me a line about the changes???? my email is sean080888@hotmail.com Thanks

benznut · February 2002

The SL55 will beat the lot....

The latest issue of the German car magazine Auto Motor und Sport (AMS) has a comparison between 5 +300 km/h cars. They are all non modified production cars:

Aston Martin Vanquish
Ferrari 550 Maranello
Lamborghini Murciélago
Mercedes SL55 AMG (unlimited version, a DM 3000 option)
Porsche GT2

They test the cars at the Italian high speed track Nardo (where you don't have any centrifugal force on the car when doing 240km/h). They test acceleration 0-100km/h, 0-200km/h, 0-300km/h and topspeed.

The results are surprising:

0-100 km/h:
Aston Martin Vanquish 5.6 s
Ferrari 550 Maranello 4.7 s
Lamborghini Murciélago 3.6 s
Mercedes SL55 AMG 4.6 s
Porsche GT2 4.0 s

0-200 km/h:
Aston Martin Vanquish 17.4 s
Ferrari 550 Maranello 14.6 s
Lamborghini Murciélago 11.4 s
Mercedes SL55 AMG 13.7 s
Porsche GT2 13.1 s

0-300 km/h:
Aston Martin Vanquish 55.0 s
Ferrari 550 Maranello 61.2 s
Lamborghini Murciélago 34.2 s
Mercedes SL55 AMG 32.5 s
Porsche GT2 40.9 s

Top speed:
Aston Martin Vanquish 316 km/h
Ferrari 550 Maranello 306 km/h
Lamborghini Murciélago 330 km/h
Mercedes SL55 AMG 325 km/h
Porsche GT2 315 km/h

The Mercedes Sl55 AMG (with automatic transmission and tons of extra options) is the fastest car to 300 km/h and only slower in top speed than the twice as expensive Lamborghini...

Weight of the cars:
Aston Martin Vanquish 1863 kg
Ferrari 550 Maranello 1732 kg
Lamborghini Murciélago 1819 kg
Mercedes SL55 AMG 1974 kg
Porsche GT2 1446 kg

CW value:
Aston Martin Vanquish 0.34
Ferrari 550 Maranello 0.33
Lamborghini Murciélago 0.33
Mercedes SL55 AMG 0.29
Porsche GT2 0.34

The SL 55 AMG is the heaviest car but also has the lowest cw value
(taken from mbnz.org)

Do you even dare to guess what the lighter and more powerful upcoming SLR will do to these contenders? Just for starters it will be about 700-800 pounds lighter and some 80 horses more powerful. I guess Murcielago won't be king of the road for much longer. Find a place to hide, Porsche GT2 :-)

merc1 · February 2002

Can you please tell me where I can get Auto, Motor und Sport in print? We have the TV show here, but it's been lacking lately.

M

pat · February 2002

A major newspaper is looking to interview folks who learned how to drive stick in their adulthood, and either fell in love or hated it. Also welcome is any input on why people love to drive stick, and any unusual anecdotes about how you learned etc.

Hope to hear from you before Feb 22 via the Talk to the Press discussion or at jfallon@edmunds.com with your thoughts and contact information.

Thanks as always,

Jeannine Fallon
PR Director, Edmunds.com

spratl · February 2002

I have been looking at purchasing a nice, solid, well built car to replace my 99 saturn. I don't drive it except on the weekends, because I have a company car for day to day. I've been looking a 2000 or 2001 seville sts, but the parents of a friend are selling there 97 S600. I know the have been very particular about keeping the car serviced properly. The car has 76K on it and the only reason there getting rid of it is because the just bought a new 600. My question is, If I purchase this car will it eat me alive in maintence, It it breaks will it break me, and how reliable is the V12?..... Thanks for any advice

mercs430 · February 2002

I have a 2001 S430. I would like to add an XM satellite radio. Has any one does this. Does Mercedes offer it as an upgrade? If anyone put one in, what has been your experience and where did you install the antenna?

mbnut1 · February 2002

Based on what I've read on these boards yes. Most of the reports indicate that vintage S is expensive to maintain in general and the 600 is even more so. After owning a Saturn you can't begin to imagine how expensive that S class could be. It's probably reasonalby reliable and it is one of the best driving cars Mercedes ever made but I've read about $5K replacements of AC evaporator cores. Get the idea.

v12power · February 2002

I think that on any car originally costing nearly $150k you can expect expensive maint. If two or three major things were to happen you could easily buy a new Saturn. The cars are very durable though. They are not real problematic. I would recomend an extended warranty with any car like this, just to be safe. You can get one right off the internet as far as I know.

Now the choice between the V12 Mercedes and a Caddilac Seville is a no brainer. I was just on vacation in California and rented a Seville SLS. Not a bad car, a great deal nicer than your Saturn but, NO contest when compared to Mercedes. I drove the Caddy for 11 days then bought a new S600 and drove it home. Two different worlds. One example, the Caddys climate control is automatic, set the temp and it does the rest. I noticed that the Caddy system blows hot and cold alternately, never a constant temp. My right hand would get cold, then ten seconds later hot. I assure you MB and BMW do this much better. There were also exterior trim parts falling off the car, not real impressive after only 5000 miles. I also noticed that the idle was not very smooth. It was OK but I think MB does it soooo much better.

If this is going to be a weekend car I think the MB is by far the way to go. You will likely never put enough miles on to have real expensive repairs. I have a feeling that the Caddy would have more frequent repairs, albeit for less money each time. The V12 Mercedes is an intoxicating machine. Drive both and report back.

spratl · February 2002

My friends parents aloud me to drive the car for the weekend and I absolutely love this car. I took it to a well known MB repair shop and had them go over it. I took them all the maintence records and they gave it a clean bill of health, well they did find that the rear driver side window motor has a short. I don't think that would be a big deal, granted the cost of the window motor is more than I've put into the Saturn in the passed 12 months. Anyway, I did how ever manager to get a speeding ticket Saturday, I was doing almost 90mph in a 65mph zone, but the cop wrote it for 78mph after I explained I was use to a 4 cyl. The V12's mid range pick up is amazing and the car feels as if it commands the road. I will make an offer on it this week, but in the mean time I'm going to drive a S500 and the cadillac.

v12power · February 2002

I think you are hooked now. The S500 is a really nice car as well. It just doesn't have all of the nice touches of the 600, including the 389hp V12. Driving the caddy after a weekend in the 600 will likely cause you to burst out laughing. The northstar V8 has a nice snarl, the car has a fair amount of room but, the S class sedans are larger, faster, safer, and carry an undeniable heritage. The W140 S600 was the last of a breed. They put every conceivable option on that car. They are a joy to drive, king of the road!

benznut · February 2002

Are there any software for sale that one could se to diagnose a problem in their late model Mercede Benz? If there is, where can they be found and how much do they cost/ I appreciate any assistance in this matter.

Kirstie_H · February 2002

We are looking for lawyers (any age, sex, kind of car) who are car nuts.

Please respond by March 9 to lordusky@aol.com

Any questions? Contact Edmunds.com PR at jfallon@edmunds.com

Thanks!
kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com

rlshongkong · March 2002

Hi,
Could anyone give me a hand. I have been looking at used 94-96 S class MBZ. I have found that I love the S500 but I am worried that it will have higher maintenance than the S430 or the S320. Why am I getting such a big car- well, I like to keep my cars for a long time and at 6'3", 225, I am the shortest male in my family. (They call me Little Larry.) So, a big car is needed. Please, anyone got any suggestions? The second question is comparison of the S320, S420, or the S500. Thank you very much for your help.... L

merc1 · March 2002

Well why don't you split the difference and go with a nice S420, V8 power, biggest body, but a little easier on the wallet than the S500.

M

rlshongkong · March 2002

IS the 420 less expensive to maintain....?

Mercedes-Benz S-Class

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