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Mercedes-Benz S-Class



  • Has this ever happened to anyone else??

    I took my 2001 S500 to have the windows tinted (for those of you wondering about the specifics, I got a 35 percent tint, which is legal in NYS apparently and will pass inspection, but not in NJ). The job came out looking super nice, I must say.

    But when I picked the car up, I noticed what I thought was an imperfection in the application of the tint on the back rear window, right where the bottom of the window meets the trunk of the car. I thought it was just an elongated, narrow bubble that would go away in a few days as the window tinting outfit had told me to bring the car back in a week if there were bubbles or imperfections that hadn't gradually disappeared.

    Well, since then, my inch-and-a-half long imperfecton has developed into a 4 or 5 inch long, multi-veined, full-fledged crack in the glass.

    Is this an occasional hazard of window tinting? Frankly, I never heard of this problem before. Could the tinter have used one of his tools so forcefully as to have cracked this thick glass? The area it occured in does seem perhaps more delicate and prone to damage as it is right where the glass meets the parcel shelf so there is very little space to work in.

    Or is it more likely that this is a stress crack in the window from chassis flex, which often happens in convertibles, for example (in which case it's a warranty issue)?

    I can't even imagine how much this will cost to repair -- the defroster element is embedded as part of the window and I'm sure the glass part alone is over $1000, let alone labor charges to install it.

    Any one have a similar experience or know about this issue?
  • It seems that there's quite the discussion on the quality/reliability of recent Mercedes cars. I have seen data that points out that they're reliable and ones that say that they're not.

    Here's the way that I look at it. If you want Benz S Class, you're not really going to be looking at all the things you look for in an economy car. You're not really going to look at reliabilty and resale value. You're gonna look at the way it drives and the fact that it's a flagship car.

    My parents own a 1994 S Class and I must say that it's one of the best cars out there. For anyone looking for a great car look to the W140(92-99) or w126(81-91) s classes. I feel that back then M-B's were overengineered for the customer's own good.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "" guess that's why BMW -- a more reliable brand than MB -- is using GM transmissions""

    Wrong, yet again!

    Someone posted a link elsewhere, and guess who is leading BMW in reliability in every class:,1518,grossbild-179773-193601,00.html


  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    No one spends 70k plus for a car without considering reliability. No one that I know at least. Maybe a young rich guy who owns a Porsche feels this way but business execs who buy super-lux cars are used to perfection or something very close to it. That's how most got where they are. On top of that poor relibilty will hurt the resale value of the car and that is starting to happen to MB. Once the resale value starts to falter the car loses its high level status. On top of that the momemt the car doesn't work properly you are bitter about it because no car that costs that much money should give you problems, particularly in its first year or two.
  • ..on Motorweek; BMW is using GM automatic transmissions in the 5-Series, and X5. Oh well...
  • I don't read German, Merc. Perhaps you can give some details on this study, as I have always done. Are they talking about initial quality? Long-term dependability? What is it?

    I can read English, and your reference contradicts both CR and JD Powers. Oh how that must irritate fanatics like you -- knowing that the dependability of MB model configurations sold here in the U.S., which is all that really matters for most people here, is at the bottom of the luxury barrel.

    1994 S Class and I must say that it's one of the best cars out there.

    It's a shame they don't build them like that any more....

    You'll have to do better than that merc. At least translate it and tell us what kind of study was done. Also tell us how German model configurations differ from U.S. models.

    -Anti Merc
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    And doesn't your own survey's put MB ahead of BMW overall? That's the point I was trying to make. In the link I posted you can clearly see the problems per 1000 cars and in each category MB leads BMW. The E, C and SLK have a lower number of problems per 1000 cars than the 5, 3 and Z3 BMWs.

    Oh how that must irritate Cadillac fans that they have built better cars than before and nobody cares, because the main indicator of that (resale) is still in the toilet.

    I posted that because you said that BMW is a more reliable "brand" than MB and it clearly isn't. ISN'T BMW lower on the scale overall than MB, from the data you yourself posted?
    Don't use "not being able to read German" as an excuse, it's as clear as the day is long what the survey is saying. Look at the cars with the lowest scores and the ones with the highest, common sense will tell you which end if the "good" section of the chart.

  • I stand corrected. Where dependability is concerned, JD Power ranked BMW #14 and MB #10. They also ranked Cadillac #8, Lincoln #4 and Jaguar #3.

    It is good to see that you are finally given to reading these studies and taking them to heart. Perhaps now you will finally admit that MB builds cars that are less dependable than Cadillac. That is the only point I wanted to make. I think MB may score higher in the "fun-to-drive" and panache categories. I also think Cadillac has come a long way, and that the CTS is the beginning of a renaissance for Cadilac. It is certainly fun to drive. While Cadillac has been improving in recent years MB has, in contrast, suffered from declining reliability.

    As far as my comments on your link are concerned, you failed to read my questions yet again. Here it is in the simplest of terms so that you may understand it:

    Does your study discuss long-term reliability or initial quality?

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    It's about time you got YOUR OWN data right! No I don't admit (nor do I see that) Cadillac cars are more dependable, because what you never could answer is why is ALL of Cadillac's sedans on the list to "avoid". You could only come up with "they'll be out of production soon" which is an feeble excuse at best. I still don't see the C,E, SL, CL, on the list of cars to "avoid" once they become a year or so old like the Catera, and Seville were, the latter of which has been on that list more years than any Benz. Yet all you can say is that they'll be "gone" soon.
    Secondly for the difference in "fun to drive" (per you) and those other things that make a Mercedes so appealing for a many, a mere point of advantage in a reliability survey isn't enough to warrant getting a Cadillac. Truth be told the two brands have never appealed the same group of people anyway at large. I can see one buying a Lexus, a car that is like a Mercedes in many engineering respects along with significantly greater reliability, but a Cadillac with a point of great reliability won't ever appeal to a true Benz fan because a Cadillac really isn't in the same league is so many other respects. Again, the study posted was for the first year of use.

    "And who cares about BMW?" YOU brought BMW up just because you wanted to take another uninformed swipe at MB, hence the "correction" in your post.

  • I see. Just when I thought you had enough sense to read the statistics (since you started citing them), you backpedal. Fine. I'll beat this dead horse as long as you want.

    JD Power long term reliability rankings: Jaguar #3, Lincoln #, Cadillac #8, MB #10, BMW #14.

    CR April 2002 reliability (p. 27): MB S-Class ~40% below average. Cadillac Deville ~25% below average.

    Your fanaticism will never change those cold hard facts. Go ahead an beat your head against the wall if you wish.

    because what you never could answer is why is ALL of Cadillac's sedans on the list to "avoid"

    I didn't see the Eldorado on the list. I see you've changed your tune and limited the scope of your statement. Lets not forget that the Escalade never made the list while the M-Class is on the list for every year that it was manufactured.

    I don't care one whit where BMW ranks. Moreover, I was man enough to admit that I was wrong about BMW. I doubt you will ever have the courage or sense of honor to do the same.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    ""Just when I thought you had enough sense to read the statistics (since you started citing them), you backpedal."" Dude, didn't I already say who ranked where? In about 5 different forums.

    You need to be tapped on the shoulder you're stuck on repeating everything. Can't you read what I posted? I said all of Cadillacs SEDANS were on the list, you even posted exactly what I wrote and then you turn around and ask me about the Eldorado. Man, look at your own post. Or don't you see the word "SEDAN" in my post, now lets see if you're MAN enough to admit you missread what I posted in the beginning. I CLEARLY STATED ALL OF CADILLAC'S SEDANS, SEDANS, SEDANS, SEDANS.....meaning their 4-door models. Duh. If you don't care about BMW then don't bring BMW up, because yes you were wrong again. I haven't been "wrong" about anything. You can make statistics say what you want, that is as old a time itself. I *could* look at those very same stats and say "gee, Mercedes' cars are way more complicated and technically advanced that Cadillac's yet MB still ranks 10th overall in reliability".........if I wanted to look at it that way. So keep on posting the same crapola.

    Lastly just like they don't mention the Eldo or the Escalade, I don't see the CL, SL, E and C MB models on the avoid list, a lot more models than a Chevy Truck With Leather and the antique Eldorado. It would truly be ashame if the Eldo was on the list considering Cadillac has had 10 years to get the bugs out, but then again they can't do it with the Seville.

    Now again, it doesn't matter about the Seville right? Because "it's going out of production soon" right?? Pathetic.

  • That's what makes your rants so laughable sometimes.

    You might choose to ignore part of a manufacturers lineup, but I will not. M-Class and CLK (along with the already mentioned S-Class) owners have enjoyed abysmal reliability. You might choose to ignore that, but I doubt real owners do. Oh I forgot. A friend or a friend once let you back his S-Class out of the driveway.

    CR April 2002, p. 27 - 2002 reliability:

    Deville 25% below average
    S-Class 40% below average
    M-Class 50% below average
    Seville 60% below average
    CLK 94% below average (right there with the Jeep Grand Cherokee)

    Why don't you ever have anything to say about the JD Power long-term reliability study? Not once have you responded to the JD Power power study. Could it be because it contradicts your fanatical belief that MB can do no wrong?

    "I don't see the CL, SL, E and C MB models on the avoid list"

    Of course you don't see the CL and SL on the list. CR doesn't get enough surveys back on those models to make any kind of a recommendation, good or bad. If you took the time to actually read the magazine, you might have a better understanding of their methods.

    They do collect data on the C and the E, however. They are merely average.
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    ...why not take your issues with merc1 off line. Fight with him via email. Your comments here have been heard. We choose to keep our heads in the sand. If JD and CR say my car is subordinate to Caddilac than so be it. To say S-class owners enjoy abysmal reliability is absurd and you know it.

    Unlike either of you guys arguing, I happen to have experience with both. I spent 10 days driving a Seville around LA this winter. Immediately following that I bought the S600 and drove it home 2500 miles. There is no comparison, and you know that too. It is a ridiculous assertion that any GM product can compete with MB. I would push a C-class on flat tires before I would buy any Caddicrap.

    Keep dreaming, better yet keep working, and maybe someday you be able to afford an S-class. You will find that most if not all of your arguments are absurd. My experience with MB has been that, yes there has been a lapse, no it is not of near the proportions you exaggerate too. My new MB is awesome, and much more reliable than the BMW sitting next to it in the garage. No matter how reliable Caddy gets I will never drive one of those FWD GM heaps. In case you didn't know, they are the biggest joke in the luxury market. But you just keep believing they are better than MB. Tell everybody you know, that should be good for a laugh. Yeah, I bought a caddy cause its a better car than MB. Best of luck in fantasy land bub.
  • To say S-class owners enjoy abysmal reliability is absurd and you know it.

    That's a ridiculous assertion given the evidence, and you know it. There are plenty of owners who disagree with you; some of them right here on this forum.

    There is no comparison, and you know that too. It is a ridiculous assertion that any GM product can compete with MB

    MB's gadgets don't justify their bloated prices. There are different forms of competition, my friend. In some ways, the Deville comes out the winner, and in others the S-Class comes out the winner. The S-Class ought to come out the winner in all categories, including reliability, at that ridiculous price point. The fact that it doesn't is pathetic.

    Keep dreaming, better yet keep working, and maybe someday you be able to afford an S-class.

    I wonder if I will ever be willing to throw that much money away on a car that gets the reliability ratings that the S-Class does. Would I consider an LS430? By all means. I came very close to buying one, but the incentives on the Deville made it a pretty good value, so I chose value over high-end luxury.

    I like the way the larger BMWs drive, but I wouldn't want to live with their abysmal reliability any more than I would want to live the abysmal reliability of the S-Class.

    Best of luck in fantasy land bub.

    Say what you want, but thinking the S-Class is a more reliable car than its rivals seems pretty fantastical to me. The S-Class may be fun to drive, and may help keep the egos of its owners in the stratosphere, but it remains an unreliable car.

    I'll go when I'm good and ready to go, and I'm not quite ready yet.

  • benznutbenznut Posts: 104
    The guy drives one and you are telling him what you have read in some survey?
    Honestly we are tired of the back and forth remarks that are getting old. Tell us something that we do not know, something interesting.

    It is not worth continuing anymore. You cannot change one's opinion, even if it is that Cadillac is better than MB. That is the beauty of having opinions. The discussion here, however, has gotten as ugly and futile as it can be.

    What info is out there with regard to the facelifted S.
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    Exactly where does the DeVille come out a winner against the S-Class? In your precious JD powers survey, in CR's opinion? If that is the premise you base this on, you really need to open your eyes. CR has no clue about cars, it is the single worst source for auto information out there. I don't look to JD for anything. Two places doesn't make a winner out of the DeVille. It is a pretty slim margin, so by that thinking the DeVilles reliability is extra super abysmal compared to a Lexus????

    You are here for only one reason, to screw with Merc. Get a Life.

    Oh, I like the "incentives" comment regarding a DeVille purchase. That happens when GM can't sell their junk. Must be great cars when you have to drop the price to get them out of the showrooms every fall.

    Folks like you are a riot, quoting JD and CR but having no clue about cars in general beyond that. It is the only excusable reason for buying a Caddilac, pure ignorance! It is not gadgets that make the S-Class a superior car. Seems to me the DeVille is pretty well gadget laden itself. Caddilacs are truly geared towards the non-driver, the guy who wants the illusion of a fine automobile. I would use technical automotive terms to describe to you the actual differences in an MB product vs GM but it would be obviously over your head and a waste of my time.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Again you keep looking worse and worse and so does Cadillac. You keep talking about the same models, S, CLK and ML, but I keep asking about the rest of the lineup. Where are the C, E, SL, CL cars on the list? Are they on the avoid list like ALL of Cadilac's sedan models? Not my fault your gods CR and JD P. doesn't get enough responses back. Who cares. Lets see if you can grasp that this time. CR, nor J.D powers is not the BIBLE if they were only the cars they say are good would sell. Period. Just keep on posting, you're only making yourself look stupid because it's already been noted what you found, but MB owners are telling you that CR and JD isn't indicative of all the S-Class, CLK or ML owners in the world, yet you continue to cling to your precious surveys. The poster above (v12power) owns an S-Class yet you're going to tell him his car isn't reliable. Please you're a joke, as are most of Cadillac's cars. The fact you bought a DeVille over an LS430 says it all. The LS430 stomps a mutthole in the DeVille, yet you let "incentives" (i.e. GM 99cents bin sales tactics) make your decision.
    Where did you see me post that MB could do no wrong? That's something you made up in your mind because you have wreath and crest stuck in your head. My point is that MB cars aren't the bad cars you're trying to make them out to be, nor is a Cadillac a better overall car. And if you don't believe me about my experiences with MB cars then you have yet another problem.

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Mark and merc - you've been asked twice to stop. Please either take it off-line or create an appropriate topic on the Comparisons Board. If you choose the latter, understand that the same rules for respectful discourse apply there as well.


    Sedans Host
  • Who has the better tire, mb or caddy?? Tony
  • benznutbenznut Posts: 104
    MB of course :-)
  • Tell you what; I'll limit myself to one post a day on this forum. I don't want to waste too much time here anyway, what with my boy's Junior-A league games starting up.

    Wow! Look at all of the vitriol. Now you know how Caddy enthusiasts feel when Merc1 spouts his fanatical drivel in the Caddy forums. Remember it, and remember it well.


    Did you not read what I wrote about the CL and SL? I guess not. Go back and read it sonny.

    CR's silence regarding the CL should by no means be looked upon as an endorsement. Moreover, the CL has too much in common with the S-Class to believe it can be much more reliable than the S-Class.

    The C and the E are average, although the latter is bit dated. Of course we have no idea how well the new E and C will hold up in the long-term. If MB hasn't done anything to rectify their reliability problems as a whole, I wouldn't expect much.

    If you want to talk about the MB linup as a whole, I point you again to the JD power survey, which looks at these brands as a whole. I don't have to tell you what the results say yet again do I?


    I did give you some new information last post. Even I am shocked by the CLK's attrocious reliability record. 94% below average. That's pathetic. Only a few vehicles, like the ancient Chevy Astro, fared worse. Pathetic.


    "If that is the premise you base this on, you really need to open your eyes. CR has no clue about cars, it is the single worst source for auto information out there. I don't look to JD for anything."

    I give you statistics, and you give me your opinions. That seems to be a common theme with you MB fanatics. Your opinions regarding reliability are insignificant and meaningless next to the reams of data collected by CR and JD Power. If you want to tell us about your experiences, fine, but don't expect me or any other potential owner to accept your observations as anything more than interesting anecdotes. Where reliability is concerned, the experiences of a single individual are statisticly insignificant.

    You are here for only one reason, to screw with Merc. Get a Life.

    And your here to do what? Balloon your already inflated ego? To tell us how MB is more reliable than other brands without a shred of evidence to back it up? To shut down any reasonable discussion of MB's faults?

    Who cares; I'm having fun with this.
  • jstylejstyle Posts: 129
    The S class is a 'mass' produced model. The CL is a 'limited' produced model. This allows for much tighter controls on production. I own a 2000 S500 and have had a number of problems (electronic/electrical) mainly and certainly hope MB gets their act together because I, and I would certainly say to anyone considering a purchase, will not keep my S past the warranty period. It will be far to costly to hold on to and I don't want the frustration. My MB service rep said fixes on my car so far have come to $3225 over the last one in a half years. Perhaps this is why MB must charge a MSRP so high to cover warranty cost. Just a thought.
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    How about you take on the comments regarding Caddilacs position in the JDP ratings? I see that while MB trails Caddy by a very small margin, Caddy trails Lexus by a HUGE margin, those Caddys must have abysmal reliability. You are making a fool of yourself, I hope it is fun! What was the difference between Caddy and MB, about 10 problems per 100?? So by comparison MB is abysmal in reliability compared to Caddy???

    THAT is what I was referring to when I accused you of twisting the facts. Look, you have done exactly that!

    I also think JDP is flawed as they do not address the types of problems owners experience. When the paint peels off your Caddy and the engine blows a head gasket I think those are more actual PROBLEMS, than when I have to have a power window switch replaced on my MB.

    As I read the JDP report it looks to me like the top 20 are all pretty close. Lexus obviously is far and away superior, Infinity is very good and everybody else is close with only incremental differences.

    When you are adult enough to have an intelligent discussion on MBs faults, I would be happy to participate. I have owned several, in addition to several comparable machines. My anecdotal evidence would be far more helpful than your twisting the available facts. Once again, it is my impression that you have no real mechanical knowledge of automobiles. That kind of makes the exercise worthless. School yourself a little and come on back.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Here ya go markhampton and anyone else who is interested: What's wrong with Mercedes-Benz?

    Let's take this conversation over there and let these good people here join us there if they want to do so. Then we can let this conversation go back to the S-Class - which is indeed what it is here for.

    I could even move any of your posts over there if you'd like me to do so - just tell me which ones and I'll be happy to do that.

    Sedans Host
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    I don't think you get the whole picture here. markhampton has a personal vendetta against merc1. From what I understand, merc1 made some disparaging comments about Caddillacs in the Caddillac thread. markhampton has taken it upon himself to come to the S-Class thread (merc1's chosen brand) and stir things up.

    It really has nothing to do with what is wrong with MB. It has everything to do with people playing TROLL. You see, markhampton really doesn't care if there are problems at MB or not. The goal is to exact some sort of vengance on merc1 for his comments about Caddillac. As evidence I suggest you check the signature left by markhampton in some of his posts. It reads "Anti-Merc".
  • rexualrexual Posts: 17
    V12power and all other contributors to this board, this is about my S55. Refer to Msg # 1051, 1054 for details. My dealer arranged for me to meet up with the MB factory rep for our area. Here is what he said about the drift to the right, it's perfectly normal to have it this way. it's supposed to do this. Now when I first questioned the Service Mgr at the dealership, he said this was a MB myth, so now we have conflicting statements from the dealer's Service Mgr and the MB Factory Rep. The four of us took a drive in the car and MB guy assured me that the car is fine. As a matter of fact, all other symtoms are still present but as the MB Factory rep put it, "perfectly normal". The larger 18" tires react to the road more than smaller tires. Am I paranoid? What's the next best move? Thanks.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Oh, v12power, believe me I do see the whole picture because I read the entire Sedans board every day.

    My point is that is that a couple of our Town Hall members want to pursue very intensely an issue that is not appropriate in this discussion. Therefore it needs to go elsewhere and I have given them suggestions for how to continue this, if indeed it needs to continue.

    The argument that has been taking place is not appropriate here under any circumstances, as you have already noted.

    Nor is this conversation between you and me appropriate here - please feel free to email me (you or anyone else) if you want to continue this conversation.

    I do appreciate your perspective; let's just take it off-line.


    Sedans Host
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    I don't buy the MB reps opinion. I have 20" rims with 35 series tires, 255mm wide all around. I drove the car from So. California to Minnesota. Believe me we had it on every road surface imaginable. My car, which is essentially the same as yours, tracks straight down the road. I also have a '98 BMW with 18" rims, no problems with that one either. I agree with your service manager. Several years ago before these large rims were common I may have bought into that excuse, not today.

    What next? Unfortunately for you this is where it gets even more difficult to get satisfaction. They have sent out a regional rep, you are nearing the top of the decision making ladder. It will be tough to convince anybody that he is wrong.

    I assume that the alignment specs have been checked and re-checked. Has more than one tech or dealer tried it? They may allow you to try a different dealers alignment rack, worth a try. I have another "long shot" for you. My car has Brabus rims. I would contact them. Ask if they use different alignment specs when they fit larger wheels to a W220 chassis. They have been doing it longer than MB and may have some insight.

    I know I brought this up before but, are you sure it is not being caused by the crown in the road? ie; pulls left in the left lane, pulls right in the right lane. On a four lane highway, two lanes each direction, the car may pull slightly as described above. If the car pulls right while in the left lane, there is definitely a problem.

    Another possibility is the tires. One tire with a bad belt in it could cause this problem, even with perfect alignment. You could try rotating the spare through each position looking for a change in behavior. What size wheel is your spare? I know my 600 requires a 17" to clear the brakes(we have larger brakes than the S500). I suspect your car requires the same. I doubt they supply another 18" AMG wheel. Regardless, whatever is there should be close enough in overall diameter to make the test work.

    I suspect the dealer will go along with a different alignment rack idea. The spare tire rotation may have to be your saturday project. Who knows though, if the dealer values your business he may play. Be sure to be present if possible. You do not need another yo-yo to tell you everything is OK when it is not.

    Have you been able to drive another S55 for comparison? That would be another indicator. It is really a shame you ended up with a rep unwilling to help. I have had the same experience with Ford GM and Dodge, you kind of expect it there though. I would continue to press the issue until a) they fix it or b) they provide an identical car with identical driving characteristics(the pull). Until then they have not proven conclusively that there is no problem. Best of luck, keep us posted. I will be interested to hear the outcome. I maintain that there is something awry still.
  • markhamptonmarkhampton Posts: 74
    If Merc1 can stay out of the Caddy boards, I can stay out of the MB boards.

    Since v12power asked the question, I will answer it before parting ways with this lovely board, and its fine readers:

    How about you take on the comments regarding Cadillac's position in the JDP ratings?

    My take is this:

    Lexus: Somewhat higher price, highest reliability
    Cadillac: Lowest price, somewhat lower reliability
    S-Class: Highest price, lowest reliability

    In the case of Lexus and Cadillac, you essentially get what you pay for. You can draw your own conclusions regarding the S-Class.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Now watch how silly, markhampton-like I'm going to be..."I'll post in any topic that I want". Furthermore, duh if you had bothered to read the title of the first topic in which this whole thing started you'd know that the tite was called "XLR: Arriving in BMW's Next Year" It was a Cadillac fanatic taking a swipe at BMW and Mercedes in the first place. I haven't said one thing in a all Cadillac topic except for the CTS topic which is where a lot of dreamers hang out to begin with taking swipes at every brand on the market in order to make the CTS into something it isn't.

    Next up you're posting/saying the same things over and over again. To prove you don't know what in the hell you're talking about. The E-Class has been around since 1996, and if that isn't enough time to gauge it's long-term performance I don't know what is. Why don't you bother to read R&T they had an issue within the last year that profiled the E-Class from 1996-2000, read it and then get the egg off your face.

    Equally "pathetic" is the Seville which has been junk for over 2 generations now. Period.

    Amazingly you say I don't know anything because I don't own a Benz, but yet you TELL the people that do own one they don't know what they're talking about either! I'm glad you're on Cadillac's tip cause I personally wouldn't wany anyone so ignorant speaking about MB' their favor. Yeah V12 has an ego problem, yet his post read like that don't they...yeah sure, how about you're jealous of what he has in his garage.

This discussion has been closed.