Toyota Echo

pat · July 2001

I caught you, majorthom! ;-)

I expect that you are editing as I type this!

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

majorthomecho · July 2001

Hi Pat, what did I do now? <----- playing Mr. Innocent. ; )

Wish I could stay and chat, but I want some mindless entertainment so I am going to go see The Fast And The Furious (for the third time).

I see now what you thought I did. I didn't steal post #2000. I found it. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Actually, I typed the b of my title and accidently hit a couple of keystrokes that posted the b and nothing else. I then went back and edited (actually wrote) the post.

REO Speedwagon said it best, "Time for me to fly."

pat · July 2001

scaper · July 2001

Hi gang, I wanted to say that I'm having my windows tinted lido black on the 10th of August, that's 5% for those that don't know. I'm thinking of having the two front windows done also to keep the sun out and help the air run easier. My state, Delaware, states that you can't have any tint on the front side windows because of the law enforcement issue. Well I'm going to contemplate this before I do it since my father was an officer before he died. So I may be a rebel with a cause on this issue. But it would be nice to have all the windows done at the same time. My vehicle is in the garage except when I'm at work then it sit's in the open for eight hours and it is smoking hot when I get in at the end of the day. Has anyone else done their windows and how did it effect your air-conditioning? Thanks caper

majorthomecho · July 2001

If your state does not allow the tinting of a certain window or windows, I think you need to obey that law. The officer would be within his rights and duty to stop you; ticket you; and make you strip off the illegal tint right there.

kneisl1 · July 2001

You will never really know how to drive a manaual shift transmission unless you learn to drive a tractor trailer. Unlike you might expect, there is almost no such thing as a tractor with an automatic. In fact, the transmissions in these things arent even synchromesh: you must double clutch between gears. Since you arent driving a tractor, I will tell you what I know.
Shifting into neutral while coming to a stop and coasting to the stop might cause you to lose control in snowy, rainy, or icy conditions. It would also tend to make you use your brakes harder, wearing them out faster. Neither should you downshift through the gears, this just wears out your clutch faster. Leave the car in the gear you are in and just shift into neutral as you stop. This isnt a big deal, but you asked for guidence. Actually, as long as you stay inside the recommended speeds for each gear, dont use the clutch with the trsans in gear to hold the car on hills, put the trans in neutral at lights, and stay away from dragstrip techniques, these isnt much else you need to know to properly operate a clutch/manual transmission.

majorthomecho · July 2001

There is an ad in the paper for a 2001 Echo with 4k mileage and all the options for $8900. There is no other information except a phone number. I wonder what happened to the car because an Echo with all the options would have an MSRP north of $16k new. I'm going to call the number and get more information. I will let you know.

Rather than do a new post with what I found out. I have gone back and edited my existing post.

To me, "all the options" means that the Echo would have to have ABS and side impact airbags as those are options. However, the Echo in the paper did not have ABS or side air bags. I asked the person who answered the phone why he was selling the car. He said, "I bought it at a good price and I am selling it a good price." Why am I not convinced?

majorthomecho · July 2001

I have never understood what double clutching is. I also never understood what is meant by heel and toeing. Care to explain, Kneisl1?

echoz · July 2001

In the past week I've clocked up about 1500kms in one of our Echo's and I'm sure glad I fitted cruise control to the car. The weather here in Sydney has been foul and my forays to the north and south have been in really bad weather with rain, wind and fog at times. I have been really impressed how the Echo handled the conditions. One trip was with four adults and I was surprised how well the car went. Our other, older, Echo is also going great guns. I am really very impressed by the consistently good economy these cars get!

echoz · July 2001

Double declutching comes from the days when manual gearboxes had no synchromesh. Synchromesh is a cone like addition to the gear that allows for smooth and crunch-free changes. In those days it was easy to crunch the gears. This happens because the the two shafts on which the gears are set are spinning at different speeds, so the gears don't mesh but rather hit each other causing wear and tear, generally a problem downshifting. By double declutching this was avoided. First of all the clutch is depressed to shift out of the current gear, the clutch is then realeased and the engine speed increased to 'match' the speed of the lower gear spindle, i.e. the engine is revved to the engine speed the car would have at that speed in the desired gear. The clutch is then depressed again and shifted (generally downshifted) into the new gear. If all works out the gear slips in nicely like a warm knife in butter. It is something that really can only be acheived through practice and when one learns the 'feel' of the particular car. It can be done in cars with synchromesh and you can feel the gear being more easily selected. Of course it is done usually in a blink of an eye, something that only comes with constant practice.
Heel and toeing is when you are braking, say for a corner, and you want to brake at the sametime as downshifting using double declutching. SO the toe is on the brake while the accelerator is 'blipped' with the heel for the downshift during the double declutch.
I hope this helps.

majorthomecho · July 2001

Now I understand what Vin Diesel is talking about in The Fast And The Furious when he criticizes Paul Walker for not double clutching.

majorthomecho · July 2001

Smartmotorist.com has compiled a list of the safest cars in a wide variety of categories (sub-compact, compact, etc.).

In their opinion, the Toyota Echo is the 2nd safest car in the sub-compact category. In terms of new cars still being produced, it is first because number one in their list is the Escort.

Here is the link if you want to check out the rank of another car.

http://www.smartmotorist.com/top/saf.html

breckco · July 2001

To add to echoz comments on heel and toe. You don't actually use your heel and toe. You use the ball of your right foot to apply the brakes and the right outer edge of your right foot to "blip" the throttle to increase the rpm. When I first heard about heel and toe I tried it with my heel and toe and couln't figure out how it could be done. It wasn't until I went to racing school that I learned that was just the name for it.

Live Happy,

Chris

majorthomecho · July 2001

Smartmotorist has some weird choices for safe cars so you may wonder what the criteria is. Here is the link to read about the criteria.

http://www.smartmotorist.com/saf/saf.htm

majorthomecho · July 2001

This Smartmotorist organization has declared the Echo the top car in the sub-compact category. If anyone can find the criteria for that distinction, I would appreciate if they would post it.

bl2echo · July 2001

still piddling with the a/c temps using the temp. probe on the compass. in a previous post i wrote that recirc. didnt seem to make much of a difference in the air temp. coming out of the outlets. this still holds true when you use the a/c on average days up to about 80. temp. only drops a degree or two. recirc. does much better with higher temps. and with full sun dropping the temp. of the air exiting the outlets 8-10 degrees cooler then with outside air. unfortunately i can only do this for about 1/2 hour before i start to get that "moldy" odor which clears up as soon as i switch to outside. after a few minutes i can go back to recirc. and start the cycle again. any similar experiences?

gunny101 · July 2001

I've gone about 1200 KMs since I got my vehicle a week ago. Lets hope the engine can last until 400,000KMS ;D

kneisl1 · July 2001

I was looking for a new (used) Honda Accord Station Wagon for my wife (I TOLD her to add oil on her trips to Maine, but noooooo!) and I was checking out ECHO on Excite Classifieds. Now, for ALL YEARS of Honda Accord Station Wagons there were over 400 examples. But when I checked ECHO, which has all of two model years so far, there were also over 400 examples! And they are all being sold by dealers! (saw a BASE for $15k!) Why are there so many ECHOs for sale there?

zhz · July 2001

Maybe people have just found out the quality/value of Echo. j/k

fangio2 · July 2001

It has been said by "authoritative sources'that Echoes are so good;that they sell for more used then they do new.Echo owners are making a killing.

babyboomer · July 2001

I was driving a 17 foot what seemed like a one-mile-to-a-gallon U-Haul monster on I-95 when an Echo just like mine passed me. How would you have felt?

majorthomecho · July 2001

Some smart people seem to live in my area so I see a lot of Echoes around. I have seen a couple of black Echoes almost like mine. I have yet to see a four door manual in black. I am just glad to know some people are smart. ; )

lnr · July 2001

I have loved my echo up to this point. It has 17,000 miles on it. However, recently I have a couple mysterious problems that we aren't sure are linked or not. #1 the radio/cd volume just cuts out and I get nothing until it decides to work again. #2 the battery is dead on occasion from no apparent reason. This has happened 3 times now and the dealer can find nothing wrong. I am 100% certain than nothing was left on to drain the battery. Anybody else having these problems?

kaz6 · July 2001

As the Echo is intended to be a 'first new car' for many people, they may be the results of repo's? The way dealers seem to push cars out the door-letting you drive off before finding apprv'd financing etc.-could lead to many deals gone sour.
These adds are also often placed by dealers to look like private ones.
12k on mine and love it!

mbohun · July 2001

I've noticed when driving in light rain that the windshield wiper on the driver side tends to jerk as it sweeps. This only happens in a light rain. Appears that the arm length on the driver side is too long and thus will grip the windshield's surface in a jerky manner. Has anyone else experienced this????

majorthomecho · July 2001

I have not noticed any problems with my windshield wipers (either one) in any conditions (light rain, heavy rain, snow, etc.). Sorry.

dfwecho · July 2001

This past weekend I took a trip in our '98 Avalon
and gave my 00 Echopod a break. While it was quieter, more powerful, etc...as it should be -
The seating position was noticeably ( sp )lower, and the car felt like it wallowed a bit compared to the Echo. I rarely drive the Avalon - this is the first time I'd driven it since buying my Echo in April '00. In my mind the Echo compared favorably, in light of purchase price, economy and fun factor..I know it's an apples and oranges situation, but I thought I'd mention it.

breckco · July 2001

INR,

Just curious, do you have an aftermarket alarm or other equipment or is your car completely stock? Sometimes the "brain" in alarms can go bad and make batteries go dead. Also, did your dealer put a meter on your car to check for voltage draw?

Live Happy,

Chris

kneisl1 · July 2001

If your battery is dead then probably there is a short somewhere which is draining it (perhaps intermittantly) The fact that you have an intermittant on/off with your radio seems to lead down the same path. Have you checked all of your fuses? What have to tried to do to make the radio turn on when it cuts out? Has anyone added anything like an alarm or auto-throttle to the car? If so, then this is the prime place to look. Do you have the dome light set to stay on with a door open? If so, leaving the door ajar will drain the battery. I would ask the Toyota dealer to replace your radio under warranty. Insist on it because at times it does not work, right? If this fixes the radio problem perhaps it will also fix the dead battery. Good luck and let us know what happens. (if anything) I will think about this problem some more. (but that doesnt mean anything else will necessarily occur to me)

mbohun · July 2001

thanks for the suggestions...I'll try once it starts to rain again...which should be Wednesday in Dayton Ohio...Thanks again.

Mike

coolguyky7 · July 2001

Both of my parents work for Toyota (which saves me around $2000 on a new car :-) )and very soon I shall be driving and I have several decisions to make on what car I want. I have several 2002 models in mind. These are the ECHO, Corolla, Celica, Camry (redesign), Solara, RAV4 and Matrix (2003). The ECHO, Matrix and Corolla would be loaded. Celica, RAV4 would be moderately loaded while the Solara and Camry would have few options on them. I want a vehicle that can get me from point A to point B in an efficient and safe manner although it needs to be stylish, practical and easy to drive. I don't want a vehicle that wouldn't be utilized. (example-I have no use for a Land Cruiser nor an MR Spyder) I also want a vehicle that gives me a good view of the road. Someone I know has a 91 Civic...and I love how I can see the front end of the car from the passenger seat. My vehicle would definitely be automatic, have ABS and side impact airbags (if available) and a CD player. I want to know which vehicle would best suit my needs. I deeply appreciate everyone's advice. BTW--I love the Indigo Ink Pearl (or Brilliant Blue Pearl, the Toyota website is misleading)ECHO!

mpgman · July 2001

Might as well rule out the Echo, since ABS and side air bags, though allegedly available, cannot be found. Maybe 02 will be different but so far there are no such indications. Corolla is due for a major redesign in 03 so I would personally rule that out too. If you buy a Toyota, get a Camry. The 02s will have ABS standard in all but the base CE. Side air bags are available. Camry or Solara, take your pick. The Rav-4 is nice, but overpriced, in my opinion. You can find ABS if you look hard enough, but side air bags are not available as of the 01 models. Be careful where you park though. The Rav-4, believe it or not, has no rear bumper. The spare tire is the only thing between you and major damage to the rear, and the painted spare tire cover on the L model is a big time scuff waiting to happen. As to the Matrix, only pictures and some initial previews are available. I suspect ABS and side air bags will be offered, as the top line model will have AWD. The styling will probably be love it or hate it. The Pontiac Vibe will be its sister car like the Prizm is to the Corolla. You want safety and a fine ride? Can't beat the Camry if the $$$ are OK by you. Good Luck!

coolguyky7 · July 2001

My car would be custom made. I'd order it from the factory.

mpgman · July 2001

From what I have been told, that can take as much as 6 months and the dealer has to get preference to place the order,---another process. Most likely, they will scour the globe looking for what you want on the boat or in production before the order will even get placed. It's like ordering an 02 and getting delivery in 03. Still no guarantees they'll get it right, and then what?

zhz · July 2001

So, it sounds like you have about 17000+ to spend.
One thing I don't understand is that there are people looking at Echo and Camry at the same time. One is family car, the other one is ...... a nice little car.
What about a Protege --MP3? Or a turbo Tercel since it's going to be a custom made. What about a Prizm?
It seems you post your message to all groups. AND you change your favorite car in each group.
Check your post, and make your mind.

alpha01 · July 2001

from what I've read, there is not going to be a Camry CE for 2002. only the LE 4cly will have ABS as an option (probably very likely that most will be built with this in some type of package) and the XLE and SE Models will all have it standard.
~alpha

coolguyky7 · July 2001

Thanks to both of you. I appreciate the input. First of all, I get about $2000 off on Toyotas--and I would only buy from Toyota, Nissan, Honda or their superiors because of their reliability. Well I included those very different vehicles because they are in the price range--and my parents are somewhat willing to go the extra mile for the Camry because they know it is worth the extra money. My parents have seen the 2002 SE model. The Camry is already being produced in Georgetown and these huge parking lots are being filled as the launch date draws near for the Camry. I hope to get a wide range of responses from different message boards. More people see what I have to say also. I love all these cars.....if I didn't, I wouldn't be interested in them. Right now I am seeing the Matrix as my best bet. Inexpensive, gas efficient, plenty of room, availability of options, not up for any changes soon, and good styling make it my main choice right now. I wouldn't want a vehicle that is going to change completely the next model year...I just see that as buying something and letting it become obsolete in style and technology a year later. THANKS again for input. Please add more if you have any other comments.

fangio2 · July 2001

I was at the grocery store and came out.There it was parked right next to my beautiful olive silver Leganza.My first reaction was to call for the police-I thought surely there was some law forbidding this.
After getting my hyper-ventilating under control,I cautiously approach this this alien-looking intruder.It was silver in color and raised it's posterior in an odd manner.The finish was surprisingly good.The interior was different,but not unattractive.I thought of your postings and looked warily over my shoulder.If someone wants a small economical car it seems worth considering-it's diffenitly not your run of the mill Japanese styling.This one did not have the spoiler and I think it looks better.
All in all ,it looks as good as MOST Korean cars quality-wise.Wider tires and maybe some alloy wheels might look good.

majorthomecho · August 2001

See I am wearing you down. ; ) LOL.

pulgo · August 2001

My average for the last 12k miles, 40% city and 60% highway driving is 43.06 MPG (using synthetic oil). This is for an automatic! Just one more thing to consider when the time comes to buy a new car. And, by the way, nothing broken or malfunctioning at all.

echorick · August 2001

Is your 43.06 mpg based on using Canadian Imperial gallons? If so , I think that is about 35.88 mpg using US gallons.

pulgo · August 2001

I knew this question was coming and NO, my MPG for those in the USA is 43.11 as of today (I just came back from work and filled up) and for CANADA it is 51.78.

Todays MPG was 48.9 (US) and 58.73 (Canada=imperial gallon)

US gallon = 3.785 litres
IMP gallon = 4.546092 litres

Sorry to bore everybody with the details.

kneisl1 · August 2001

Due out some time after labor day a spiffed up edition of ECHO designed to appeal to younger women. The car has been styled by some designer of young womens clothing to appeal to the 18-32 years old segment of the population. It has rubber seat covers so they dont have to worry about ruining the upholstery (?!?) Im NOT making this up! I have to wonder at the mentality of Toyota and how they percieve ECHO...obviously as a conduit for younger buyers from cheap cars to more expensive ones like Land Rover, Camry, et al. The reality is that many ECHO buyers are much older and appriciate a quality car which is economical to run and fun to drive. This is the car we would build if we all wanted to be responsible adults/citizens of planet earth. Instead Toyota has this totally warped idea of what ECHO is all about...that younger people are going to buy it! Young people wouldn't be caught DEAD in an ECHO! What a letdown for their ego...can you imagine a young person buying their first car and buying an ECHO? They'd be the laughing stock of their generation. Mom and Dad spent HOW MUCH on your education and youre buying THAT? Of course I like it and appriciate the ECHO...probably the most practical car being made today.

majorthomecho · August 2001

The special edition of the Echo is called the Roxy. Around here, I see a lot of younger people in Echoes already. However, the vast majority are older people that I see.

majorthomecho · August 2001

It was my understanding that there is a rev limiter that "prevents" you from going faster than about 26mph when in first gear. After my break in time was up, I tested that out and the car seemed to slow down at 26mph. It seemed to be saying that if I wanted it to go any further, I better shift into second.

Today (at 10,000 miles), I noticed that I seem to be able go past (much past) 26mph in first and there was no hesitancy to go faster. Of course I shifted when the sound indicated that I was probably close to the redline.

What might I have done to enable my car to go faster than 26mph in first? Should I get it fixed to where the limiter is back? My roommate thinks I should, but I don't see the harm as my hearing is fine and I am not stupid enough to blow my engine up due to reving too high and staying above the redline.

Also, will this affect gas mileage in anyway?

llemmon · August 2001

when you shift , you don't want, to soon or you will lug the engine. if you shift to late, you waste gas. shift at an engine speed where the engine pulls strong.also winding 1st gear out to 26 mpg could cause excessive engine wear and will difinitly waste gas.

wrgraham · August 2001

Interesting comment about 1st gear speeds. My Echo will go past 30 without hitting the red line and hence the rev limiter. It's probably around 32 that it would hit, if your tires are stock. I am trying to remember if my Echo behaved as you say, when it was newer. I kind of think so, but I am not sure. I have 31K miles now, and run it to 30 in first sometimes, but seldom. And 60 in second sometimes, but seldom. Lively car.

majorthomecho · August 2001

After posting my question, I checked my manual. The Echo can go up to 33mph in first gear, 62mph in 2nd, and 91mph in 3rd gear. There is no mention of a rev limiter. These are the recommended speeds and I am going to follow them. I, for one, am not going to see if I can go 40mph in first.

Also, it is recommended that for fuel efficiency, you shift from first to 2nd at around 15mph.

rdeschene · August 2001

Thanks for the details - I keep on telling people if they want to improve their gas mileage by 20%, just start using Imperial gallons. ;-)

pulgo · August 2001

Hey, let's use miles per barrel:-)

Toyota Echo

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