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I have noticed that you have updated your Reviews and Info section regarding the 2002 Echo to include a "Edmunds.com Says" statement. Your statement says and I quote, "Current Echo owners don't like us. There's a reason. We don't like the Echo."
This is typical of Edmunds. While it is true that I, a current Echo owner, don't like you, it is because of much more than your not liking my car. It is fine that you don't like my car. It has to do with your being factually wrong when it comes to the Echo, inconsistently biased, and failing to tell the whole story.
An example of your being factually wrong is what you say about a fully loaded 2002 Echo. You claim that a fully loaded Echo would still require someone to roll down their own windows. This is simply NOT true. Power windows are an option and have been since sometime during the 2001 model year. And in fact, you have already been informed by myself (and others) of this error.
My not liking you also comes from my thinking you are selectively biased against the Echo. An example of this is that you call the placement of the gauge cluster in the Echo dopey, but in the BMW Z8, it is a tribute to the past. Why is it dopey in one and not the other?
Another example of your inconsistent biasedness is that in the Top 10 Most Fuel-Efficient Cars article, your writer takes the Echo to task, and very harshly I might add, for not coming with power windows. A fact that may have been true at the time of the writing, but my problem is that she does not display the same level of venom for the Kia Rio, another car that, even if you load it up with every option, did not come with power windows. And still does not.
Yet another example of your negative Echo bias is in your "What's New" statement of the Reviews and Info section for the 2002 Echo. You make a reference to the slow sales. What does that have to do with what's new? And did you make the statement in that section for any other car?
Finally, I want to talk about safety and this goes to the heart of my complaint about your not telling the whole story. In the same Top 10 article, your writer makes reference to your preferring a gently used and larger Protege, Sentra, or Civic. Presumably you want a larger car for safety reasons. Well, in side impact crash tests which are the only results that can be compared between the Echo, the Protege, Sentra, or Civic, the Echo is rated as safe for the front seat occupants as a 2000 Protege (the most recent one tested), the 1999 Sentra (the one most recently tested for side impacts), and the 2000 Civic (at the time of the writing of the article the 2001 Civic would not have considered a used car). The Echo is as safe as the aforementioned Protege and safer than the aforementioned Sentra and Civic when it comes to the rear seat occupants.
I have read where you call yourself an unbiased source of information. I think even an outside observer would see you are very biased against the Echo.
And those are the reasons I don't like you. Not simply because you don't like my car. It is fine that you don't like my car, but don't lie about it, be inconsistent in your criticism or fail to tell the whole story.
Sincerely,
MajorThomEcho
Truthfully though, I did notice them seeming to be a little "nasty" towards the Echo. That is not fair, and not good journalism either. Journalists, particularly ones that test cars for a living, shouldn't let their personal opinions get in the way so much because while it does matter, you have to be open-minded when it comes to the product.
Another thing: In the very first Echo test of the 2-door, the author mentions "Focus" several times and even provides a link to the Focus test. The test could be resourceful, but the way it's mentioned (like a stab) is not professional. That's why I don't read reviews on Edmund's or many other resources about cars. If I wanna know how it feels or drives, I go to the dealership myself and check it out. That's the best way to know what's what with a vehicle.
This may be playing with fire, but I am going to retype and send that letter directly to the editor.
Thanks again for your info.
To answer your question, you have to get either Sport body cladding or Upgrade Package 1 if you want Upgrade Package 2.
I think you left out a word in your question about ABS, but I think you are asking if it is hard to get. If that is the question, the answer is that it is a factory ordered option. That is you have to order the whole car which could take four to six months.
Personally, I have not felt the need for ABS in the almost ten months I have had the car.
What the heck is a Sports Package Indicator?
The ECHO has exceptional: Comfort, quality, reliability, performance, utility, fuel economy, low purchase price (when sensibly equipped).
....what more could anyone want?
carleton1 - huh? There is nothing at all in majorthomecho's "open letter" that in any way violates the Membership Agreement, is offensive or invites a flame war. I trust that your post was entirely tongue-in-cheek, because disagreement with the content posted on the edmunds.com site is never discouraged within the Town Hall.
Just in case you may have been serious, or in case others have read your post and take it seriously, I'd like to make a few comments about what you have said.
I assure you that there has never been an instance of a member of the Town Hall being expelled for being critical of articles posted on edmunds.com. And while I will not object to your characterization of a host's workload as "heavy" ;-), I do not believe that any host ever deletes any post without *taking* "the luxury of lengthy deliberation" before doing so, no matter what workload awaits. (The truth is that it is a lot more work to delete a post than it is to overlook it, because a lot more needs to be done than just hit the delete button.)
The staff that posts articles within the main portion of edmunds.com and the hosts who facilitate and monitor the discusssions within the Town Hall in reality are entirely separate entities. The editors of edmunds.com do their thing, and the hosts in the Town Hall have an entirely different mission. Frankly, I have no idea whether the editors are "biased" about any vehicle - my opinion of that issue would very likely be colored by my own private opinions about vehicles, just as your opinions are - at least that's what I think.
But the Town Hall has never and will never prevent anyone from expressing disagreement with the edmunds.com editors - just as edmunds.com does not prevent that, I'd like to point out.
Everyone is always free to email the edmunds.com editor at the address I provided above. And I think majorthomecho can confirm that very many of those letters are published in the monthly "Letters to the Editor" column.
I hope this clarifies some of your concerns.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Cool, thanks for the compliment. That is one post that I spent a lot of time on. I was worried that the server at Edmunds was going to throw fits over the length or the time I was taking to write it. Even after I finally posted it, I went back and tweaked it. Before I send it to the editors, I will be tweaking it some more.
I typed it and posted it here because I wanted it to serve as an inspiration if you will for people if they wanted to write letters of comment/complaint to the editors.
Final word to Pat, if you want to cut down on your work load, just throw some Positive-Daewoo people and Negative-Daewoo people onto the same thread and eventually, you will have to close the thread down. ; ) Don't believe me, just ask KarenS.
I do think your thoughts were well expressed, and I encourage you and anyone else who has opinions of anything the editors at edmunds.com post to feel free to write to them. And/or post your thoughts here; we'd all like to see and respond to them. Town Hall is here for the free exchange of thoughts, ideas, and opinions about vehicles. The only thing we ask is that our members honor the Membership Agreement (linked on the left sidebar). And there is not one thing in the Membership Agreement that asks for - or requires! - agreement with the opinions of the Edmunds editors.
So go for it! You can make a difference if you are willing to take some time to express your thoughts. Again, the address is editor@edmunds.com.
And if any of you have a letter published in the Letters to the Editor section, let us know here in case I miss it - I will be glad to provide a link.
Oh yeah, major, about your Daewoo suggestion - I think ... uh, never mind. :-)
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
cliffy: You have been an excellent, reliable source of good information.
It is not like a Kia Rio where side impact air bags are not available even on a special order car.
Suggestions anyone??
Sorry I could not be of help.
Thanks for any input
I am saying this based on the national advertisements and the local advertisements I have seen.
The best price I might be able to get might be different than the best price you can get due to differences in where we live.
If you want people to help, you need to be a little more specific as to where you live. I don't think you have to be so specific as to give the city you live in, but perhaps the state would help.
I was wondering what others use in their cars. Also, wondering what oil came with the car when it was new.
I am a little concerned because the weather around here can get a little cold in the winter and I thought 5W30 does a better job of flowing in cold conditions and just as good a job of flowing in hot conditions.
Thanks for any responses.
Here is why this is the laugh of the day. I did have several bags of groceries on the front seat and the weight of the bags tripped the sensor causing the warning light to come on.
In its May edition the English magazine BBC Top Gear published the results of the 2001 BBC Top Gear/JD Power survey.
The 2001 survey looks at S- and T-plate cars. These cars are registered between August 1998 and August 1999.
The survey looks at ownership cost (19%), dealer sevice (17%), vehicle appeal (30%) and vehicle quality (34%). In the survey are 182 different models.
Number 1 is the Lexus LS 400, 2 is the Toyota Yaris and number 3 is the Lexus GS 300.
At he bottom are the Alfa Romeo GTV/Spider (180). Number 181 is the Mercedes Benz V-class (The MPV version of het M.B. Vito) and last at 182 place is the Opel/Vauxhall sintra (The European version of the Chevrolet Venture).
Top Gear writes about the Yaris: "All praise to the runner-up. This is a very impressive achievement for so small and cheap a car. Extra poke and a more reliable gearbox would make this fine car near-perfect."
I've done is change the oil. I read this NG regularly but Inotice that no one has a problem beyond
mere nitpicking. Whatever shall I do with all my time?
I already have an Echo.
The '01 Elantra received a below average "reliability verdict" and the Elantra model's predicted reliability was worse than average.
On the other hand, the '01 Echo received a better than average "reliability verdict" and the Echo model's predicted reliability is much better than average.
See, once you understand their motivations, everything they say is usually consistent, even if you can't really let them pick your next car for you (assuming that you don't have a checkered flag as priority number one as well). Also notice that all of their "Long Term" tests conclude after two years. I would hope that any car made today by any company would hold up for just 24 months.
This place seems kind of slow since people can't talk about the problems of the Echo since those seem few and far between so I just thought I would throw out a topic for discussion.
To answer my own, implied question even if I believed in Edmunds reviews and Consumer Reports equally, the reliability results from Consumer Reports would be more important to me than a car winning an Edmunds Most Wanted designation.
Don
The only down side to this is that after a few washings of rain storms, the scratch will reappear. The "fix" is so easy that it can be done in 2 minutes so just do it again whenever it shows up.