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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans



  • I agree with you mall610. Maybe he knocks MB cars because because he wishes he could have one but can't and that makes him feel better. I guess he also didn't see, or chose to ignore, my post, #3884 of 3904 BMW 540i vs. MB E500, that says an independent third party picked the E500 over the 540i and the Janguar S-Type V8!
  • Re: Audi salesman. What's the point of trying to sell dinky sports Audi on an E-motion message board?
  • et610et610 Posts: 40
    Check out the BS from this guy on the Audi S4 board...also check out the posts he has made after this one....

    #672 of 768 Ode to the S4... by ilxman Nov 06, 2001 (12:00 pm)
    I'm a 2001 Nogaro/Alcantara 6spd S4 owner, with about 8500 miles. I woke up early last Saturday (i.e., least amount of traffic) and decided it was time to take her out and seriously let 'er rip. I got on the expressway and gently warmed her up as I got past city and suburban traffic. Then I turned off the stereo and really started workin' her out. My love for this car has only deepened with the experience.

    First, to cruise at 105mph in 5th gear (at only 4500 rpm!) with only the softly sweet, musical hum of that magnificent engine is remarkable. In fact, as I redlined from 1st gear on up after a toll booth, the engine and turbos simply purred--no screams, no protests, no hint that there were turbos at work...just delicious propulsive thrust. That thrust went right on up to 130mph, a speed I hit a few times before clumps of traffic appeared ahead and I had to slow down. Doggoneit--I wanted to test that electronically limited 143mph top speed!

    At 130mph (and at every point getting there), there was no obvious aural indication that I was seriously flyin'. It was just that marvelous Teutonic hum that would make Beethoven proud. The car was rock solid stable, yet still clearly nimble. Some would argue that this car is too quiet, not manly-sounding enough. I say this is the result of world-class engineering in the service of a true GT (as opposed to a pure sports car).

    A word about the suspension tuning is in order. I have argued with the (E36) M3 owners in the S4 vs. (old) M3 forum that the S4 is the superior all-around car mainly because of the awd and better balanced comfort+sport suspension tuning. At one point I was going around a long curve at 105mph, except that the road surface became really bumpy with various pockmarks, etc. My brain said I should become really concerned. My S4 said 'Don't worry, be happy!' as I took that bad boy at triple-digit speeds. Therein lay the S4 superiority to the old M3. The M3 can do everything the S4 does EXCEPT: 1) come out of the back end of curves as fast (thanks Quattro system); 2) stay as firmly planted in adverse road/weather conditions; or 3) be as comfortable doing all of the above.

    I was having so much fun I drove all the up to Wisconsin, before too much traffic made me turn back. At that point, I just wanted to listen to my CDs and chill out in comfort. With the S4, that was no problem. In the course of my fast run, I smoked a Porsche Boxster, Saab turbo convertible, Mercedes E430 sedan, and a BMW Z3. In the course of my slow run back home, I was more comfortable in my car than all I came across save the E430 and a BMW 740iL--but mine cost one heck of a lot less and is more fun. All in all, I'd say I love my S4.

    That said, here are some gripes Audi had better address--or the next car will be a BMW M3 or M5. First of all, the stick is just too balky. The 1-2 and 2-3 are problematic. I can't believe Audi didn't catch this obvious flaw. Come on Audi, Honda has the smoothest sticks I've experienced and BMW is better as well--please steal some of their people and fix this problem.

    Secondly, Audi's marketing people need to wake up. Am I the only one who thinks it rather silly to make your 'statement' performance automobiles...station wagons!? Let's see. BMW has the M3 and M5 (and soon the return of the marvelous 6 series--perhaps an M6?). Mercedes has the AMG series (sedans, GT coupes, sports coupes, convertibles). Audi? The S4--a sedan only--which has been leapfrogged by the new M3. The S8--nice, but we're talking full-size luxo/autobahn cruisers here. Their serious, maximum-performance vehicle is...the RS4 station wagon (not even available in the US) and soon the S6 station wagon. Audi, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! How exciting, high-peroformance station wagons! Audi, please note your competition. Give us an aggressive looking S4 COUPE (like that one in the German spy photo) and a M5-worthy, ultra-performance S6 super-SEDAN! I read a quote from an Audi marketing person who said it was not worthwhile to build an S6 sedan because it would be too much like the current 4.2 A6. Well, duh! How about pulling out the stops and making a super S6 sedan?

    Audi, you seem to be suffering from an inferiority complex. You can clearly build world-beating cars, but you persist in pulling your punches because you think people won't buy your super-tuned product or that it won't help overall sales. BMW and Mercedes build their super cars so that the brand cachet can bring more buyers for 330i's, 320s, 5281's., etc. You are not doing the sales of A4's and A6's a favor by not building the supercar versions of those platforms. For heaven's sake build 'em. You will get buyers for the supercars if you stop holding back! Once you start getting that supercar auto-lust from people like me, then those who can't afford the supercars will buy more A4's and A6's. There are legions of people like me who salivate over the M3's and M5's of the world, but who will spend their limited dollars on the tamer versions of those objects of lust. Audi, wake up. NO ONE SALIVATES OVER AUDI SUPERCARS...cuz you don't have any! References to your racing accolades don't mean a heck of a lot if you don't bring more of that expertise to your real cars.

    That said I love my S4...but as I salivate over what I can do to top it, my mind is firmly on BMW. Now if you came out with that 340hp S4 super-COUPE, with a sport/comfort suspension switch, 18" rubber, a SMOOTH 6spd (or USEFUL paddle-based tiptronic), more aggressive styling, and every luxury amenity (including steering wheel-based controls and a real navigation system), my lust would revert back to Audi. Similarly, if you came out with a serious M5-beating S6 SEDAN, then I would revert back to Audi when I contemplate a married-man or older-man car. Audi, please wake up! End of diatribe....
  • john01john01 Posts: 246
    Does he know that Audi is bringing the RS6 to the US, which on paper has better straight line performance than the M5? Not to mention being more expensive than the M5.
  • Congrats on your new E 500! I am picking up my E 320 tonight! (Black, pano roof, HK sound, CD changer, keyless go...) I am really excited.

    When I ordered my car I wanted to folding rear seat and was told that there were "issues" and it was not currently in production. I ended up going ahead with everything else and dropping the folding seat. I just wanted to let you know this. Are you sure that the folding seat is available for production now? When I check the "build your own" on the MB website, there is still no mention of it. You may want to check with your dealer.

    Good Luck with your car I look forward to hearing how you like it. I know I am going to love mine.
  • Thanks mbe2003. Yes the folding rear seat option is avaiable. The MB site does not show it or the DVD-Nav offer either. I got the seat option from looking at posts on other boards and working through my dealer. It took several conversations but we got it worked out. The car should be built today or in the nest few days.

    Enjoy your car too and keep us posted as to how you like it and if you have any problems. It sure is hard to wait but I'm sure it will be well worth it when it arrives.
  • Does anyone know what effect the MB class action lawsuit will have on those of us who have purchased the MB extended warranty?
  • How predictable! First, why is it that Mr. et610 didn't copy all those posts from M-B owners from the Audi v. BMW boards? I have no problem with that, except that MB posters inevitably fall back on aesthetics and pride-of-ownership to tout the superiority of MB. Second, the intended audience for my diatribes are, in fact, the marketing personnel of the respective marques that monitor these enthuisast sites. FOr example, Audi decided to bring out the RS6 due to withering criticism regarding the lack of performance of the A6 platform versus BMW. MB needs to hear that the reason for BMW's surging sales at their expense is because BMW has stayed true to its engineering-led, high-performance focus, while MB has chosen to go for a much more heavily luxury position on the luxury-performance spectrum. [That was not always the case, which I'm shocked more MB owners on this site haven't pointed out.] Meanwhile, Lexus, which has made the highest quality cars for several years running, eats away at the luxury-first crowd. The other intended audience segment are people who are in the market and want to hear comparative driving experiences to supplement the professional reviews.

    Mr. John01, yes, I have written a warning on the Audi board that the price premium on the upcoming RS6 had better play out in superior real-world performance over the M5, or Audi will face a marketing backlash. As for the other puerile comments ("Gee, he probably can afford one!", etc.), what's the point? I actually drove the cars because MB invited me to do so--I'm certain they sought me out because their marketing staff found out I'm an Audi owner. Kudos to MB for having the guts to try to convert me with an actual driving experience. But my judgment stands: Too much money for too little performance. The E500, however, is promising. The fact that MB is now going to sell a 4-motion version of their top E-Class sedan (not just the 320) is an obvious appeal to Audi buyers. Hopefully, MB will tweak some more performance out of the platform by the time they offer it next spring....
  • john01john01 Posts: 246
    Dude, go back and read my post again, I do not see how you could have found that comment as I have not made it.

    "As for the other puerile comments ("Gee, he probably can afford one!", etc.), what's the point?"

    I happen to own a 530 and like my car better than the E-class, needless to say. Frankly I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but if you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you read what others write more carefully before firing back.
  • Has anyone had any first hand experience with the "clear bra". There was a post on #3743 that touted it as a great protection.

    I have a metallic black E500 on order and am trying to decide if it is a good idea. I know that not having rock chips would be great. I am concerned about what it will look like after 3-4 years.

    Anyone know what happens after a few years? Has anyone seen it on a black vehicle?

    Mercedes dealer says that it would be $650.on the E500. They also say they install a lot of them each month. They say they install for the BMW dealer as well.

    Hopefully someone can give me some advice.
  • Unless you added a rocket pack to the trunk of your car, you won't be 'spanking' a CL500 at any time, let alone a CL55.
  • sergeymsergeym Posts: 271
    You believe that a better car = a sportier car. For the majority of people it is not so. MBs are not driver’s cars. They are not built to win races. They are high-prestige, high-quality cars with great performance. BMW 530/540s will easily beat any Benz, short of AMG model, on the track but it does not make BMW a better car. They are just sportier cars. I recently drove 745, S430 and LS 430 on the track and though 745 was the best there (on the track) for the every-day driving LS 430 is a much better car. It's like telling to RR owner that for the money they should've gotten a Ferrari. I also drove E320/500 on the E-motion event in NYC (Tarrytown) and agreed with my girlfrient (we seldom agree on anything related to cars) that E500 is a better (though not as sporty) car that my 540.
  • jodar96jodar96 Posts: 400
    There is an article in Automotive News, dated 9/30/02 page 24 that talked about Mercedes settling law suit for 98-01 MB's where the owners may have pushed the 20K oil change intervals and have created engine problems. Now MB is saying that they will fix the damaged engines.

    I question the accuracy of Flexible Service System that can not tell the difference between regular and synthetic oil, and let the owner go all the way to 20K with regular oil.

    Why not just change the oil at 3K with regular oil and 7,500 with synthetic and just ignore this system.Fixing the damaged engines will cost MB about $106M!! Mercedes will cover engine damage for 5 years/150K miles IF regular oil was used in those engines.

    Am I correct that the flexible Service System started with new V-6 engines and pre-98 in line six cylinders are not affected?
  • My 2001 e430 came with low profile tires. Now that I live in Chicago, I am interested in obtaining a good set of winter tires. Any help is greatly appreciated:

    1. Good snow tires for this car?

    2. Should I get a new set of rims, too?

    3. If yes for #2 above, what would be a good, reasonably priced wheel set?

    Thank-you in advance for any help.
  • I have a 99 E320 with 37000 miles. Everything is fine except the problem I had recently in Poly-V-Belt. The car need to be towed and kept in dealer's garage for three days. I heard from the tow truck driver that this problem is quite common in E320. Did anybody experience this problem? I asked dealer how much does it cost to fix this problem if not covered by warranty? He said it will cost me about 3000 dollars. My warranty is going to expire soon. Does anybody know what kind of warranty we'll get from the Class Action? Or, do I need to change my car?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Folks, this is not where we should be getting into extended comparison conversations. If anyone wants to pursue this comparison, please go over to the Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans board and fire up a new discussion.

    Meanwhile, let's settle down in here, okay? We don't need to attack each other because we have different priorities and preferences.

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I dat sez dat. Go to dat link in dat post I dat posted and make a comparo topic dere and everyone can have AT dat conversation on dat appropriate board!

  • jfz219jfz219 Posts: 63
    I drove an E320 RWD with 16" MXV4 tires. In the winter I use Blizzaks mounted on Borbet after market wheels.

    Blizzaks are unbelievable on ice. Steering and braking are vastly improved over the OEM all season tires.

    TireRack carries the Blizzak and the Michelin Alpin winter tire. They can be purchased mounted, balanced, and ready for installation. Price will probably run $1000-1200.
  • timhtimh Posts: 5
    Hey all.
    It has been awhile since I posted, but oh well.
    Has anybody heard of a fabric liner for the rear of wagon? A friend of mine purchased one for his E wagon, but has lost the info, He seems to remember the name as "line-a-truck".
    I can't find anything online about it, only the hard plastic type.
    Anybody know anything about this?


  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I've been reading what you're saying and I agree to a point, but I have a few questions and coments. .

    When did Mercedes ever put performance first? Since I've been old enough to pay attention to MB cars the E-Classes (W123, W124, W210) have always been luxury cars first with the first true performance variant not arriving until the 1992 W124 "500E" model.

    The E500 is obviously just want MB fans want. If you want more "performance" from an E-Class then they'll offer you a 469hp E55 for 2004, which I see beating the RS6 and M5 at least in that ever so important 0-60 contest. The E-Class' basic function was never to be as sporty as the 5-Series. The A6 doesn't detrone the 5-Series either when it comes to handling. No car does.

    Why are you comparing the much smaller tuner-oriented S4 to the E500 and CL500. The CL500 and E500 are luxury cars first. Should I compare the 493hp SL55 to the S4? How about the C32 and the S4?

    I agree wholeheartedly that Mercedes-Benz needs get it together on quality, no doubt, but to say they have strayed from ALL of there core values is just plain incorrect. Mercedes has always been and still is the top innovator in the automotive world. The 2003 S-Class has just introduced yet another level of safety engineering. This new braking technology will be duplicated in other cars in the years to come. The SL's top design is class-leading.

    In case you hadn't notices MB is on somewhat of a small roll too when it comes to sales. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Mercedes-Benz shouldn't even be selling as many cars as they do considering their cars easily cost more than competing cars. The E and S Class cars are easily the best sellers in their respective classes worldwide. The E is the top selling in the mid-size segment in this country too. Only this year did the 5-Series catchup/surpass it due to the model changeover that all E-Class customers knew about, hence slowing E-Class sales. Watch for the E to easily regain its class leading sales postion once the new E-Class gets up to speed.

    I fully understand that you want a sportier more involving experience, thats perfectly understandable. However to blame Mercedes for being what it has always been (a luxury car first) doesn't make sense.

  • ilxmanilxman Posts: 25
    Mr. Merc1, what I was referring to is the fact that MB was always the reference standard for the "luxury/sport sedan" through the 1980's. The professional review academy--whose priorities are performance-first, then luxury--held MB to be the standard by which other marques were judged, even if many owners just loved the exclusive luxury. That has changed drastically over the past decade, with BMW now the clear reference standard. That is also true of competing marques, who now use BMW's 3- and 5-series cars as their bogey. For example, when Lexus decided to try to enlarge the market for the GS-series, they used the 5-series as their bogey--not the E-Class. My criticism of MB is this: BMW dramatically upgraded the level of luxury in their cars over the last decade, without sacrificing performance; and Lexus has made a concerted effort to add a dollop of performance without sacrificing their world-leading quality. MB used to be the reference standard in quality, but no longer; and MB used to be the reference standard in the peculiarly German art of marrying world-class luxury AND performance, but no longer. My point on MB pricing is that current competitive realities do no justify the price umbrella. But a change in MB marketing and engineering priorities could change that. Many BMW owners love them just for the luxury, style, and pride of ownership, yet performance freaks love 'em too. MB could re-create that "big tent" once again if it chose to.
  • ilxmanilxman Posts: 25
    Mr John01, have a look at post #3905....
  • john01john01 Posts: 246
    And your point is? Since you cannot seem to quote it correctly, #3905 is by rayscar.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    "and we all know the M5 (and the new Audi RS6) are the world's greatest sedans, don't we?"

    Both are fine cars, but like all cars they are compromises. The M5 is a very sporty car, but the reviews that I've read say that the ride is rather unforgiving. Some people don't mind giving up the ride quality in exchange for outstanding handling. But most folks don't use anywhere near the handling capability of a non-sport 530, so the extra handling potential is wasted. And the back seat of the 5 series is rather tight.
  • Of a bigger concern to us West Coast residents, are MBs shipped to the east coast and transported across country or shipped to the west coast? If the strike impacts shipments, it will make acquiring a new E-class that much more difficult with already tight inventories.
  • rayscarrayscar Posts: 70
    I looked into this yesterday. MB ships to Baltimore, Jacksonville and the Port of LA. So the strike/lock-out will affect delivery times on the west coast even if they truck them across country from one of the east coast ports. Under normal conditions, MB says expect deliveries on the east coast in 4-6 weeks and on the west in 6-8 weeks. Who knows how much longer it will take if this is not settled soon.
  • mall610mall610 Posts: 24
    Like rayscar I am waiting for a new E500. Mine will be built week of October 10th.
    I checked again with the dealer and he indicated that the shipping time is "2 to 3 weeks" after it is built. He indicated that this is the normal shipping time on the West Coast. I had heard the 4 to 6 weeks and asked about it. They again said that that has never been correct. I sure hope he is right. Also hope that the Port Strike is long over by the time mine arrives.
    Must be tough on people who have been waiting and now there new car is sitting out on the water.

  • rayscarrayscar Posts: 70
    I hope that is right too mall610. I'm tired of waiting! It doesn't seem like it should take much longer than that for modern ships to cross the Atlantic. It would seem reasonable for west coast deliveries to take a little longer since the ships must go through the Panama Canal to get to LA.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. Mercedes was never about performance first. Every company has their day and BMW is having theirs, but Mercedes is far from being out of it. Somewhere along the line sportiness became a priority and thus BMW is now being chased. But when you really look at it, Lexus only targeted BMW with their lower level models, the GS and IS. Their SC and LS cars were still benchmarked on Mercedes' S-Class and SL models.

    Even with all this new found thirst for performance from Lexus, their BMW fighting cars don't sell. The IS300 has been a slow seller from day one and they simply can't give away GS430's compared to the GS300. Yet their LS430, ES300 and SC430 models are their best sellers.

    Has Mercedes lost some of that magic from the past? Yes, but it was to be expected with the breakneck expansion they've undergone over the last few years. They've gone from 50K sales a year in 1993 to over 200K last year, this just in the U.S. alone.

    BMW does great at the lower end and Mercedes does way better at the top. Nobody opens as many wallets over 80K than Mercedes does, nobody.

    For Mercedes to go back to the way they were would mean less volume and higher costs, I doubt if that will happen again. I do see them getting as close to the past as possible, but duplicating Still worldwide in most people's mind Mercedes still marries performance and luxury perfectly....the sales bare this out.

This discussion has been closed.