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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans
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Comments
I'm very pleased with my 4Matics ability to handle the snows of NH (I'm not pleased with the overall reliability or quality though). I have 4 Blizzak MZ-01's mounted. Any person in snow country doesn't need to be reminded of the need for snow tires, even with AWD.
I have to admit, though, that I think my wife's Subaru Legacy is a little more adept at handling the snow. We run both with snow tires so it's a fairly even comparison. By gut feel is that it's the basic difference of the torque splits. The E is 35/65 (I believe) and the Subaru is (60/40). The small bias to pull vs push, I think, makes a slight difference.
dmberger...make sure you take the time to read your owners manual cover to cover. There's all sorts of stuff in there that the dealer never told you when you purchased the car. I also find that my co-workers are impressed that it's hard cover!
Enjoy,
BigRob.
In service 3 times to replace two fan speed regulators that disabled the climate control system. First time returned without problem fixed stating no trouble found and lectured me on how the computerized climate control system works (think I set a blood pressure record with this encounter).
In service 3 times to replace what they claim were 3 separate fluid leaks from my drive train. Chalked up to leaking Transmission Seal, Leaking Differential Seal, Leaking Transfer Case seal. Each visit was 2 - 3 days, awaiting parts. Each visit was between 7 and 8 hours of labor. Imagine the out of warranty cost on this one! Imagine the confidence that I have that this will be durable.
Replaced failed drivers seat headrest motor. I'm the only one that drives the car...if it's been adjusted 5 times I'd be surprised.
Re-worked the sun roof slider to stop rattles on bumpy roads.
Requested that they disable the speed sensitive volume control. Didn't know how so they contacted the factory. Returned it to me saying that the job is done but it still works.
At my Service A they detected the steering wheel groan issue that has been mentioned periodically here (thus a problem known to Mercedes). Since "they didn't have the parts" I had to return the next week for service. Left it with them and they did nothing, claiming that they were unable to reproduce. They were the ones that did the initial diagnosis in the first place.
As just mentioned, my wood trim has cracked completely through in 3 places. I assume it's due to the cold. Note to self, install heating zone in garage so my Car can be comfy.
The paint doesn't seem to be very durable. I have a host of paint chips on my hood.
Every service appointment goes the same way. You have to pass "20 questions" to get a loaner which, usually, is some rent a wreck sort of thing (I must admit that I have received an ML and a C, though both have lived hard lives and been in the posession of chain smokers). If any parts are needed, whatsoever, you are looking at an over night stay which usually stretches to a third day for whatever reason.
Now, get this. I LOVE THIS CAR. The problem is that the E-Class is slightly less bullet proof than I expected/am accustomed to. What I'm really experiencing is the synergy of an extremely weak service department and a car that needs strong preventative maintenance. Here, in NH, I have extremely limited options for service. As it is it's a 40 minute drive one way (times 4 if I have to leave the car) to the dealer.
Worked with my salesman, dealership owner, service manager and regional rep. They were kind enough to extend my warranty by 1 year, gratis.
Hope this helps.
BigRob.
I'm impressed that you can see through all the service headaches and still love the car.
However, I could only justify spending $50-55k for a 2003 E320 4-matic Wagon if I knew it was going to be a solid performer with minimal repairs for at least 8-10 years and 150k miles. You have raised a lot of issues that I will need to explore further.
It is interesting that one of our frineds traded her previous generation E-Wagon (not 4-matic) for a Volvo Cross Country when she moved to Michigan. She regrets it, since the Volvo has been in for more repairs in 18 months than her Mercedes was in 10 years. That's actually what got me thinking Mercedes wagon.
Thanks again for the informative write up. It does help and I wish you the best.
The car is gorgeous, is great in the snow (just watched my neighbor take two passes to get up his driveway in his FWD Seville STS), is an unbelievebly comfortable highway cruiser and has all the space and features I could want. I just fantasize about MBUSA taking the franchise away from the folks in Manchester and dropping a new dealer in Nashua.
Regards,
BigRob.
These annoyances are compounded by the fact that the car has to go into the shop at least twice to get any single problem repaired. Some of this is due to the ineptitude of the repair people, and some is due to the fact that the dealer never seems to have ANY part in stock. Getting repairs done is now more annoying than these problems, so I'm just living with most of these things.
I now am sorry I got this car, and probably would not get a Mercedes again. There are too many great luxury cars out there to endure these kinds of shortcomings.
BTW, I was pleased to received a customer satisfaction survey from MB asking about my service experience. I told them what I thought.
Now , with my new E-320, so far I have had no problems, but the glove compartment catch doesn't work right. This dealer said he would have to order parts which does not concern me now. However, service informs me they work on appointment only, so presumably an unannounced arrival would not be dealt with dispatch.
It seems to me Mercedes-Benz should not be happy to read some of these boards if they are, in fact, reading them. Or do you suppose their attitude is each owner has to deal with his/her own dealer as best he/she can---too bad so sad!! Could there be a Mercedes rep of some stripe who might weigh in here???
For one, Mercedes' cars were always of the nuts and bolts variety, not all the electronic wizzardry thats in place now. Mercedes was one of the last companies to switch to totally electronic fuel injection because they didn't trust the reliability of such a system. Needless to say that somewhere during the mid-nineties this philosphy changed and they went buzzerk with electronics. Just look at the difference between a 1995 E320 and a 2003 E320. Mercedes traded their world-beating build quality for cheaper fittings here and there, and more investment in electronics. I saw an article in CAR magazine a few years ago that put this in to perspective. They were talking with several long-time Mercedes "experts" and when they were asked if Mercedes cost cutting extended down to the "guts" of the car, the experts replied "No, all the thing underneath are just about as robust as ever, but things you see, feel and use {electronics} are significantly cheaper than before.
Mercedes' biggest problem with reliability is their choice of suppliers. Mercedes is either buying from cheaper suppliers or they're letting the suppliers dictate the quality. There is simply no excuse for the amount of CD players, Comand systems, window switches (a popular VW problem too), lightbulbs, sunroof/seat switches, etc, etc to be failing when on Japanese cars they last for nearly the life of the car. I might could understand the exotic stuff not working once in a while, things like ABC since it's the only system of it's kind currently in production. I'm honestly dreading the day I hear about SBC not working properly.
The next problem is the sheer number of models Mercedes now has and the frequency in which new models are introduced. For 2003 alone there is a new E, CLK, facelifted S-Class, additional C-Class models and a new SL. All launched within 6 months of each other. Mercedes has never had so much product. Dealerships all over the country are expanding their service bays and showrooms. In 1993 you simply had the 190, 300-Class, S-Class and SL. Not a whole lot to keep track of. The dealers weren't ready for this rapid expantion, neither was Mercedes. It's going to take years to fix folks.
M
Merc1, I agree with much of your argument. Decontenting/cost cutting has clearly been done. I bought a 97 Camry which got blasted in reviews/press due to the fact that it had been "decontented". You know what, that car was flawless. Decontenting doesn't necessarily need to impact the overall quality. Looking at the problems I'm experiencing, it is clear that my car suffers from pure cost cutting. Trim cracking due to cold. Headrest motors failing after less than 20 uses. Repeated failures of the same part. The G.D. vanity mirror cover came off in my hand when peeling off the airbag warning label (the plastic was weaker than the adhesive on the sticker!). It's very sad for a car that cost me 53K. The fact that I don't have the support of a compentent service department has me very very worried. I had hoped to keep this car 10 years, it will be gone after the first non-warranty issue happens.
However, I will not attribute it to the sheer number of new models. That may make things worse but is not the cause. The W210 version that I drive was introduced, I believe, in 1995 as a MY1996. I purchased my 2001 in 2000. You would think that a company with the reputation of MB would have perfected their highest volume car after 5 or 6 model year runs, no?
There is no excuse for the service I receive, even with the huge growth in sales (and corresponding service). If I can go out on Edmunds and see that there are issues with the Fan Speed regulator or steering wheel groan, don't you think the service reps have seen these too? If sales are growing, don't you think they see a lot of them? These are very basic operational issues.
Thanks,
BigRob.
Honestly, I received as good or better service with Honda. And guess what, their service department was better!
I think, things are deteriorating all round. One would think that with a stumbling economy, the luxury marques would shape up...Guess not. WE will likely have to elect them out of office!
Let's see, your headrest motors broke. Mine broke. You'd think they try to keep replacement parts in stock for something that breaks all the time.
As someone who spent a little over $70k with taxes for an M5 last spring, I concur that one should be able to expect better. I also think the combination of price creep on the standard (non-AMG) E-class and poor reliability/service is appalling. We would like to consider the new E500 Wagon when it is released later this year. I will be interested in seeing how the Mercedes dealer resolves my neighbor's issues.
It is a beautiful car; I only hope the beauty is not skin deep.
As much as I love the look of the 2003, I'd wait till at least the 5th model year. And I would ABSOLUTELY buy the extended warranty (something that I stupidly, didn't do).
Regards,
BigRob.
Does this tell us MB is really a pretty good bet in spite of it problems? Could this be why no MB rep of any stripe weighs-in on any of these issues, or am I just missing something?
Do you think that MB is suprised by any of this? They DESIGNED the cars and chose the suppliers. They have an older production methodology that cannot equal what is being done defect-wise at Lexus, Infiniti, Toyota, Acura, Honda, Buick.
The same is true at BMW and it's even worse at VW and Audi. A friend has one of the new hump-back 740's. It's on Rev 5.1 of the car software. This rev fixed the problem of the driver headrest accelerating into the ceiling! Not bad for 75K. What a joke.
Like Bigrobnh said, the real problem is that if you like these cars, you need a really good dealer to help you keep it working right and on the road.
Unlike most people (apparently) that drive cars like this, I don't have money to throw away. The sooner I unload the car the worse hit I take due to the way the depreciation works. Unload it now, after two years, and I'll lose 15 - 20K. Just about every other car I've driven I've driven for 5 years. I planned on at least this long with my E Class. Based on the legendary longevity of MB cars, this seemed to be plenty do-able.
Why didn't I purchase the extended warranty in the first place? I've owned 2 Toyotas(Corolla and Camry), a Mazda (626) and a Honda (CRX). With the exception of the Mazda, my new cars which I maintain carefully, have been nearly flawless. The thought never entered my mind.
I'll repeat, though. Cars are mechanical and will encounter problems. In my case:
- I'm dissapointed in the number of issues I've experienced.
- I'm totally dissapointed with their ability to fix the car. My dealer visits could have been dramatically reduced had they fixed the car the first try.
Thanks for your time.
BigRob.
Nevertheless, there have been a number of complaints about MB on this board and I am still curious that no MB rep comments. Regards
Seeing that my RL was dropping like a rock in resale, I negotiated what I considered a good deal on the E and bought it---- in spite of some comments on these boards. So far I am pleased with the car as are posts 4802 and 3. But as others have noted we have all paid a good price for these cars and I am sure all owners here are distressed to find folks with problems that just shouldn't seem to be and what appears to be a cavalier MB attitude. So far my dealer has been good, and I haven't had any real problem, but it doesn't appear that MB is prepared for quick fixes for minor problems. My Acuras and Hondas had problems too some easy and some not. So thanks for your wishes for our good luck; hopefully we won't need it and MB somehow will create a better reputation for making fixes.
Whistling Dixie, maybe so!
I absolutely love my E, but my experience with my dealer along with the trouble I have had with the car has left a real bad taste in my mouth. Despite this, I will likely go ahead with the 04 E55 that I have on order. Sad, but true.
I found some interesting detail on the Nav system in the DC media site (perhaps it showed up on an earlier thread?). Note that this is for the *European* release, but it does contain some interesting tidbits of info. I'm particularly curious why the rear seat screens are mentioned here but not avail in the US. The clincher, of course, is the last sentence.
http://www.media.daimlerchrysler.com/gms_frame
Affalterbach, Oct 10, 2002
A new COMAND system celebrates its world premiere in the E 55 AMG
The latest generation of COMAND is marking its world premiere in the E 55 AMG. The pioneering radio, navigation and communications system is available as an option and stands out with its extensive range of comfort and safety-enhancing features. The new COMAND comes as standard with an RDS car radio with double tuner for FM, long, medium and short-wave reception, an amplifier with 4x 25-watt output, video DVD and audio CD player, and DVD navigation with dynamic route guidance based on RDS-TMC. Faster data transfer allows the new and highly efficient MOST (Media Oriented Systems Transport) bus system to considerably increase the processing speed of the system. The 22.5-megabit bandwidth is a four-fold increase on the previous system, which used a D2B data bus system.
DVD navigation increases the speed and precision of the route guidance system
The enlarged 6.5-inch colour screen in 16:9 format improves clarity in the navigation, audio and TV modes (optional). The navigation system is based on leading edge DVD technology, with a series of factors making the latest incarnation faster and more precise that the previous CD-ROM-based system. The navigation computer has a more powerful processor, and the system uses a separate asynchronous channel for the route guidance function, which cannot be occupied, by other channels. The detailed data underpinning the DVD system makes it even more powerful and precise. A DVD for the whole for Europe avoids the need to change from one CD-ROM to the next, making the whole system more user-friendly.
Route guidance also possible in 3-D
The route guidance system can either run with the familiar map and arrow presentation or using a new three-dimensional bird’s-eye perspective. The driver can also select an extremely informative split-screen option, which shows the road map on the left-hand side of the 50:50 screen and the symbols and advice on when to turn off on the right-hand side. The enlarged 6.5-inch colour display in 16:9 format improves clarity in navigation and TV mode. The navigation system can also be extended to include a dynamic route guidance function as an option. There is a separate slot for video DVDs and audio CDs, and a connection point for an MP3 player. The new COMAND system has 30 audio channels, with sound quality showing a considerably improvement on the previous version with six channels. The optionally available surround-sound system offers the additional pleasure of a concert-hall ambiance.
A second monitor for the rear can be ordered as an option. This allows the rear passengers to watch the television whilst a different function is in use (for example, the navigation system or radio) on the COMAND module in the front of the car, or when the TV pictures are faded out in the front for safety reasons when the car reaches 6 km/h. The rear display offers plug-in facilities for two sets of headphones, as well as auxiliary equipment such as a video camera, digital camera with video output and games console.
“Bluetooth” telephone with state-of-the-art radio technology now available
Also available as an optional extra is a “Bluetooth” telephone. The cordless handset works with cutting-edge radio technology and can be used in combination with the fixed-installation car telephone. A mobile phone is also available as an alternative. Both telephones are fitted with a hands-free facility and can be operated using voice commands (LINGUATRONIC), or via buttons on the COMAND screen or multifunction steering wheel.
The mobile office with Internet access and voice control for all functions
As an option, the new COMAND system can be adapted to function as a mobile office, giving the driver and passengers the benefit of WAP Internet access, enabling them to send and receive SMS messages and e-mails, and providing a personal address book function for good measure. Access to the MB Portal will be possible in the near future, as will voice control during a journey, allowing all COMAND functions to be controlled by the driver or front passenger’s voice. The LINGUATRONIC system already available for the telephone and radio will be extended for use with the navigation, TV, Internet, e-mail, SMS and address-book functions in the new COMAND system. There is even a voice recorder on board, allowing short messages to be recorded quickly in much the same way as with a dictating machine.
With this extensive range of new technology and functions, Mercedes-Benz is making an important contribution to road safety, as the driver no longer has to take his hands off the steering wheel or his eyes off the road in order to operate the COMAND system.
The new-generation COMAND system is now available for the E 55 AMG and all other Mercedes-Benz E-Class Saloons.
Just purchased a '98 e320 4matic wagon. I also purchased a couple of extra remotes that need to be programmed. Anyone here have information to share on how to program Mercedes remotes?
thanks
The local garage door company just serviced my automatic door opener on Friday, and I had to reprogram the remote on my 2000 E320 (button on underside of rear view mirror). I learned that my opener uses a "rolling code" but it was a simple matter to complete the programming.
Let us know how you make out.
I'm waiting for the owner's manual. I had to order it.
Thanx!!!!