Volkswagen Passat 2005 and earlier

hoodornament · May 2002

I dont see why they couldnt simply have made ATLEAST some sheet metal changes and minor interior changes to mentally give you a different impression of the car, just call it a VW W8, not a Passat W8. I agree that looking at two adjacent driveways you arent gonna see the difference between the 21k GLS and 38k W8.

Maybe its not that easy ??

pkradd · May 2002

The W8 seems like an afterthought. It was one of Mr. Piech's last projects. Sheet metal changes on a minimal selling (potential) car would be very expensive. VW already made the changes fot the 2002 Passat. Calling it just a "VW" wouldn't make sense. The Phaeton is really where they need to (and are) going to start with this engine. The Passat is upposed to compete with the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima., not with the low-end Mercedes and BMW's. In its' category the Passat is a great buy, as long as you don't go overboard on extras in my opinion.

markcincinnati · May 2002

I think the Passat W8 is NOT an AFTER thought it is a PRE thought. It is part of a plan, perhaps a scheme, if you will allow that word, that has been in the works for some time and will be fully in bloom post 2004.

My synthesis is over on the Sedans (A4) section of the Town Hall here at Edmunds. I do not know that I am correct in my conclusions or even if Dr. Piech and his successors are undertaking a sound and successful strategy.

I think I understand it, I think it makes sense -- and like the approach Lexus took just a few years ago -- people laughed then. They write Lexus checks, lots of checks, now. As for the laughing. . . the only laughing is Lexus laughing all the way to the bank.

VW may or may not succeed(in going up market). But no matter how you slice it -- the Passat W8 is a bargain at $38K -- it is a gift to the VWoA customers and dealers. And, we are soon coming to the end of $21K VW's IMHO. VW's and Audi's will be cut from the same cloth price wise even as the two product lines diverge in several key other areas.

Enjoy the inexpensive VW's while you can -- they will not last long. No one wants to be the low price manufacturer -- such a philosophy has its future behind it.

dbmichal · May 2002

I just left a VW dealership in Atlanta and the salesman said VWofA official recommends regular for the 1.8T and Premium only for the V6. Has anyone else heard of this announcement from VWofA?

pkradd · May 2002

Tell that to Camry and Honda. They' are doing OK with the "low priced" Camry and Accord. Seriously, your "synethesis" may be right but I think VW of America has to decide which market niche they want the Passat to remain in. If after 5 or so years I decide to get another Passat I will only if it remains a reasonable buy compared to its competition.

markcincinnati · May 2002

The market I think they want -- at least that they SAY they want is "up" -- VW wants to compete with Mercedes, perhpas Lexus -- while they may respect the Toyotas and Hondas as competitors for the almighty buck, I do not think they (VW engineers) think of their efforts in the same class as Toyotas and Hondas which Car and Driver television recently called "driving appliances." Talk about cutting to the quick -- that damning with faint praise is the direction VW (and Audi and Mecedes, etc.) wants to steer away from.

When the normal Passat -- or whatever it morphs to -- starts at $29,900, are you suggesting you will buy another brand of car? This is certainly your choice, but the progression of car buying (and this notion is as old as Chevy, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick and Caddy) being what is called "self actualization" (or as a person "matures" economically/financially and to a certain extent age-wise) means you will not follow the "natural" progression. Remember, for example, that GM wanted the young person to first buy the Chevy and always have the next step up to be within GM.

I suspect that VW feels that if you buy a Passat GLX w4Motion that you will "go somewhere else" since (until the W8 and then the Phaeton) there is no "next step up" from the Passat. Moving upmarket is even done by Toyota -- the Avalon was brought out as a next step up from the Camry. And, somehow Toyota has managed to make people look upon a Lexus as much more than a rebadged Toyota. Audi's by most of us are not considered as "VW's who know somebody!"

Again, I just have said that I understand what is being done and acknowlege why VW says it is doing it. If you currently have a Passat and your "progression" is not "up" it doesn't mean anything bad or good about you -- it does however place you in a minority.

When I look around at my friends, relatives and co-workers (and in the spirit of full disclosure I am 50 years old), I see that most of them have, as their "situations" changes moved up market in the house they live in, the schools they send their kids to, the clothes they wear, the vacations they take, the beer they drink, the wine they drink, the cut of beef they eat and the cars that they drive.

I hired a young man of 22 11 years ago. He lived with his parents, drove a Camaro or Transam and ate at Wendy's and shopped for clothing at a discount men's store. Now, 11 years later, he is married has built two houses, drives an A4, eats at Mortons and wears designer clothes -- things may change, his wife is expecting -- but he speaks about getting an S4 next time.

Hopefully my point is that VW's marketing and product planning people are hoping to capitalize on the general forward and upward movement of their customer's pocket books and willingness to spend.

Heck even my father-in-law went from Chevy to Pontiac to Oldsmobile to Caddy -- and his current 1997 Caddy is not his last, to hear him tell it, and he is 79. I wonder if he will opt for the CTS while he listens to Led Zepplin?

vocus · May 2002

I have a 2002 Jetta 1.8T and have used regular gas in it for quite some time. Since gas prices are going up for the summer months, running regular is cheaper. I have also gotten the same performance and fuel economy as when running premium.

pkradd · May 2002

To abandon customrs by making dramatic increases in prices doesn't seem to make sense to me. Toyota did not increase prices dramatically, but did increase the size of their cars. Whether you like them or not, Toyota and Honda have the publics attention and are very succesful. Does VW want to sell a lot of cars or do they want to get into BMW and Mercedes territory (they are certainly not there yet). If that is the case I believe they're making a mistake. If the next Passat (I currently have a 2001.5 1.8T) is much more expensive then the current one they will lose this buyer. I bought the car because it was a bargain compared to the competition (I owned 95 and 98 Camrys). I love my Passat, if I want to spend 30,000 for my next car I'll buy something else. VW, in my opinion, doesn't understand the American market. It took Toyota a decade to "get it" and now they are the leaders in sales and customer loyalty. Snob appeal is great for BMW and Mercedes but I don't want to spend that kind of $$. To each his own I guess.

lockheart · May 2002

hello, been lurking on this board for awhile, and after driving my friend's 2002 1.8t passat gls, I fell in love with the car. And now I want one. ^_^

I was thinking about an altima, but I figured I could live without the V6, "chintzy" interior, as one reviewer put it, and the Bose audio system .

Was thinking about an Audi or BMW, but they're too costly for what I want and was also pretty much piggybacking on all my BMW loving/driving friends. They're going to hang me out to dry when they find out I'm going to buy a VW. ^_^

Can anyone tell me where I can find a good deal in the New York City area on a 1.8t gls automatic, passat, with lux, leather, and monsoon? TMV has got it at $24,956 ($26,750 msrp). Not sure about what color I'd like yet. I'll be willing to go to NJ if there's a good deal available there.

ghulet · May 2002

.....if we're using a GM analogy to talk about VW, (start with Chevy, move to Pontiac, Buick/Olds, then eventually Cadillac), VW already has their 'Cadillac', which is Audi. I know this is a bit of a stretch (because GM cars are largely inferior right now), but you don't see Chevy making $40k sedans, not that they wouldn't like to. The point is, if they did they'd likely be 'stepping on the toes' of Cadillac.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not 'against' the idea of the W8 Passat, and I don't necessarily think it's a bad deal at $38k. I guess my point is, I just don't understand the reasoning behind it at all. VW buyers, if they're happy with their Passats, frequently 'move up' to Audis, so VWoA is 'getting their money' either way. I really don't see what VW could possibly gain by going much 'upmarket'. Markincincinnati, I don't see an end to $21k VWs any time soon, Golfs and Jettas are selling quite well finally, why would they want to ditch out at this point? The end of $21k *Passats*, sure. VW would have to be insane to abandon the lower-priced markets. I think VW's multi-model success is a bit too new for them to be making rash decisions. Anyone remember where they were around 1992?

georgek44 · May 2002

Audi is to VW, as Lexus is to Toyota.

When Toyota wanted to move up market within the brand, it created the Avalon - a stretched Camry with minor sheet metal modifications in the first version. The current version's styling is even more differentiated, but still is a Camry at heart.

With nothing to distinguish it at a glance from a $22K Passat, I think it's going to be a very tough sell at $38K.

Porsche managed to make a great upward jump in price point in the late 1960's or early 1970's, when it discontinued the 912, a stripped 911 with a 4 cylinder engine. Audi did the same by consolidating and dropping the bargain basement DKW brand.

The VW brand's track record is not so good - The first water cooled fwd VW, the K-70 4-door sedan, was released soon after the merger with Audi. It was a failure. Also back in the mid-1970's, VW and Porsche cooperated on a mid-engined two-seater whose numerical designation I've forgotten. In the USA it was sold as a Porsche, by Porsche dealers. In Europe it was sold as "the VW-Porsche", by VW dealers. The base 4 cylinder had a VW motor, the high trim version had a Porsche 6 cylinder motor. It flopped and was withdrawn from the market after a few years.

markcincinnati · May 2002

I do not in any way think that the end of the $21K VW's (generally) is soon. I think the bigger changes are in the post 2004 (calendar) time frame. I am paraphrasing an article from CAR magazine which detailed (even using what looked like a family tree) the VW and Audi strategy.

In some respects, even though I generally agree and completely understand what they are attempting to do, I find myself somewhat uncomfortable with their plans. Yet, moving the VW brand up market up price is clearly what is happening. This is evolutionary -- but if you buy a brand new 2003 VW in the $20K price range, know that it is possible that they are intending to push the price point upwards. Audi has already done this. I think the current range (US) in Audis -- at list price starts at $25+K (try finding one) and graduates to over $80K. VW is creeping upward.

Conversely, Mercedes now has a car that at least theoretically is in the mid to upper 20's.

I think VW wants to go at Mercedes customers.

And, yes I agree the GM analogy may not work as well as I had intended -- but many VW buyers DO NOT graduate to Audi -- and there's the rub. I do not think VW buyers are necessarily interchagable with Audi buyers. Many customers still do not even know that Audi is owned by VW.

The W8 Passat and Phaeton are my "best first evidence" that the CAR article has credence.

The direction -- soon in MY terms, but not for several years -- for VW is to go up market, up price.

With no disrepect to Toyota and Honda -- VW doesn't want to be considered in the same breath -- and it is funny, Audi doesn't want to be compared with VW and vice versa. I have been to the factory and when I told them my friend had a Passat and that he called it his A5, the marketing people bristled.

I look at VW as a "near premium" German brand without the premium price -- this is changing. One year from now -- for right or wrong, wise or foolish -- there will be a $70,000 VW for sale, it is the Phaeton. The idea with this car is to begin, in earnest, the progessive march up -- in class, price and "image." It will take time.

But for me, at age 50, it will be soon, or it will seem so.

And, I see the point Audi is to Lexus as VW is to Toyota. But, the spirit of the argument is valid -- the argument being that some scoffed at Toyota for attempting to go upmarket, up price and head on with Mercedes (some writers called the LS400 a Mercedes knock off -- things changed).

VW may not understand the US market -- I certainly don't know what is going on other than what I read. Some attempt is being made to change the perception of VW -- and push it up.

How about this -- Japanese TV's (when I was growing up were a joke -- Sony changed things, went up market, went down market and still when someone sees a Sony TV they associate it with being at the very least among the better brands). VW does not generally enjoy such a reputation -- what they are doing, IMO, is attempting to shift our opinions about them -- the shift with $40K and $70K cars will happen. Who knows if the words said will be "who would be nuts enough to pay that much for a VW!"? Or, if 4 or 5 years down the road people will remark, "remember when VW's were thought of as cheap (meaning both low price and other less flattering things) cars?"

Dr. Piech seems to have put VW on a path towards "being the best" -- and charging less than the rest, but a heck of a lot more than they do currently.

I still think the W8 is a steal -- not enough to buy one -- I want a new Audi. But then again, I am not looking at a car in the $38K range. If I was seriously looking at an A4 3.0 or an A6 3.0, I would at least have to give the W8 a fair eval. My dealer only has ONE and it seems it is NEVER around for test driving. Maybe that is a clue that Piech wasn't wrong.

The debate sure is entertaining, though.

imprtlvr · May 2002

I test drove the W8 yesterday. No way is it worth 38k, basically for the new engine. Small interior trims changes aren't worth it. To me the added power was nice, but not what I expected. The 240hp V6 Altima seemed alot faster, but the car is "soul-less"....ritzy Japanese design, but it doesn't have much character in my opinion. I wanted a Maxima for the longest time-the power and 6 speed-but the rear end design ruined it for me. Accord and Camry are super reliabe, but too common and bland. Passat is my choice, 1.8T manual. I want more performance though, I just wish it had more power.

big_guy · May 2002

The Porsche/VW co-venture on the mid engine 2-seater you are referring to was called the 914, and yes it did do poorly in sales because of the 4 cylinder VW engine. However, the rest of the vehicle was a great little car . . . and BTW, the 6 cylinder 916 never went into production.

It is too bad that the still-born 916 project never went into full swing. They kept the same 914 body (with a few alterations such as flared fenders and a solid roof in lieu of the targa roof from the 914), tightened up the suspension, added bigger wheels, 4 wheel vented disc brakes, and put a 190 HP Porshe flat 6 engine in place of the VW 4-banger. Only 11 prototype 916's were ever produces (all in 1972) It accelerated 0-60 in under 7 seconds, which was the fastest accelerating Porsche of its day,(1972). I think that the VW/Porsche venture would have worked if they had stayed with the flat 6 engine but in never made it.

The W8 does appeal to me. Unfortunately, it is a bit outside my purchase level.

markcincinnati · May 2002

There will be a 6spd manual W8 with sport suspension -- model year 2003.

I keep seeing the phrase the W8 is not worth $38K -- this is about $5K more than a decked out GLX w/4motion, correct? I realize the look may be too close to the $33K car, but the $33K car also looks pretty close to the $23K car, no? $5K more for the powerplant and a little bit of minor "stuff" still seems like a steal -- I guess the engine must not have the get up and go that has been discussed in some of the foreign press.

A $40K Audi A4 3.0 looks pretty darn close to a $28K A4 1.8T too.

I guess I just don't understand the objection to the similarity of the look, unless the look of a GLX is just -- to some -- not very attractive.

I think the latest and greatest Passat looks pretty nice. The 270HP "seems" like it would make it nicer still.

8u6hfd · May 2002

With the Cressida, which was sometimes referred as the 4-door Supra by the Supra folks.

After around 1990, the Cressida was discontinued.

About 1995, Toyota introduced the Avalon as the new Toyota flagship sedan (replacing the Cressida)

georgek44 · May 2002

Just as the time for editing my post elapsed I remembered the 914 desognation.

I wasn't referring to the 916 (I remember that too), but to the two versions of the 914. The base 914-4 came with the VW engine, a four speed transmission, doisk.drum brakes and - the main visual identifier, regular seats. The 914-6 was a lot more expensive and featured the 6 cylinder Porsche engine, a 5-speed gearbox, disk brakes all around and seats that were not solid, but made of upholstered strips bolted laterally to the seat frame. It also had fancier and perhaps larger wheels and tires, but the body and Targa roof were the same.

I was assigned to our Embassy in Stockholm at the time, and drove both at the dealership where we bought our VW 412 Variant. The 914-4 was fun to drive, but anemic - the 914-6 felt like a real Porsche, but the odd seats were not comfortable for me. By way of comparison, in 1973 dollars the 412 cost a little over $3000 (tax and duty free), the 914-4 was about the same price and the 914-6 cost half again as much. A 911T (the base model) would have been only a thousand dollars more at $5500. The fully taxed prices in Sweden were about twice what I've quoted.

In Sweden, at least, the 914-6 was a flop because most people saw it as an expensive replacement for the Karmann-Ghia, and not as a mid-engined Porsche, and the 914-4 did not have the offbeat charm of the old beetle-based Karmann-Ghia.

That reminds me - VW's attempt to move the Karmann-Ghia up market with larger versions based on the 1500 series cars also failed.

759397 · May 2002

I still think this is another soul-less car from Toyota. If the Camry is plain vanilla (which I agree with) the avalon is at best vanilla extract. It has no real character or stand out driving characteristics.

While I would like the W8 as a daily driver, I would love it at $34k not $38ish. The performance seems to be on par with similar vehicles (6.5 secs to 60) for a "luxury performance" car is on par with other V8 powered German cars. I don't think the E430 does much better neither does the A6 4.2 (which still makes no sense to me over the 2.7T).

I like the up stream mentalisty VW is showing, however I think it should be capped at this level.

I am a huge VW fan however for $70k there are too many other more established choices (ie. Porsche, BMW, Audi, M-B, etc.).

Kirstie_H · May 2002

A television reporter is interested in hearing from folks who have driven long distances to get good prices when buying new cars or trucks. If you have a story to tell, please drop a line including your contact info and city/state of residence to jfallon@edmunds.com.

Thanks,

Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

markcincinnati · May 2002

I now see the reasons for the point-counter-point being made here and on the Audi boards on the townhall.

Toyota (in the US market, for example) created Lexus, Honda, Accura and Nissan, Infinit -- and perhaps VW created Audi to "be its Lexus" -- this could be another debate, and hopefully we can hold this till later.

True Toyota did not move their cars (much) up in price or in class -- the high buck Toyotas are at the Lexus dealers. Some might say the high buck VW's are at the Audi dealers. Now, unlike Toyota, VW is moving the line (and keeping the name) up market. The first toe in the water is the Passat W8, next will be the Phaeton (which will go "against" the new Audi A8), then perhaps a VW upscale SUV -- and who knows what else.

The strategy is different but the same as the Toyota/Lexus -- move upmarket (same) change names, create new division (different). Add to that the many of us in this town hall cannot understand why compete whith Audi?

Time will tell.

delia21 · May 2002

Still loving my 2001.5 Passat even though it is almost 11 mos old. My questions are general.

What/ where are B and C pillars?

Also will a burned out daytime running light be replaced at no charge during 10K service?

claywaterfill · May 2002

Nissan has already started the move. The Altima moved up, and the new Maxima will also move up. I hope they do not get rid of the lower priced Passats, though. If you have a couple of kids then a Jetta may be too small--where else will that buyer go? The 2002 Passat preview written by Edmunds a few months back told us not to expect the W8 in the US because it would compete with Audi. Now that the W8 is here, I think it will sell well. People who know the difference will recognize the W8, and those are the people you worry about--not the average Joe on the street.

claywaterfill · May 2002

Does anyone here have an all wheel drive Passat? Do you like it? Is it worth the extra cost? Has it helped you? It'll probably be next summer before we are in the market for a sedan. I like the Infiniti I35. My wife was curious about the safest sedans. With a little research, it seems as though the Volvo S80 may be the safest--but they have dismal reliability--and the posters in the S80 board do nothing but complain about theirs and wish they had bought the Lexus or Acura instead. Plus, can't do a $40,000 car. The Passat gets a "Best Pick" by the IIHS and mostly 5 stars from the NHTSA. I like the rear head airbags on the Passat as well. Now, the I35 is bigger, more powerful (255 HP), has a better warranty, and the dealer gives out loaner cars when yours is in for service. That being said, I like the looks of the Passat more and it looks like a car we would rather drive. If I could get an all wheel drive Passat with leather and roof for the same money, it may be the choice. The 4Motion Passats seem to be a little more rare, though. Any current owners have any thoughts? Thanks.

8u6hfd · May 2002

A pillars: at the windshield
B pillars: In between the front and rear door
C pillars: after the rear door
D pillars: In between the rear quarter glass and rear window
----------------------------
Don't forget, Lexus vehicles in Japan are badged as Toyotas.

The Avalon is marketed against Buicks, hence being referred as Toyota's Buick

imprtlvr · May 2002

In the end it comes down to personal preference and what kind of driver you are. To me, the Passat is a classier vehicle than the Infinity I35. My biggest concern is its lack of power, excluding the W8. From what I've seen posted earlier, the 4motion helps big time with traction, but adds weight and makes driving less "fun". I love the Infinity's power, room, and interior. If you're like me, I'm not happy with a car if it doesn't have performance. Most people won't even consider this, but for my 30k I'd rather buy a certified used Lexus GS400.

dl7265 · May 2002

also that the service attitudes of most VW dealers scares people from a 38k car ? i mean L and I base their "upscale" image on loaner cars free car washes and topping your gas tank off. Matter a fact does any German dealer do all that ?American's seem to like the "fluff" why else buy a gussied up camry for GULP 37k ?

Mark : the dealer i visited had 2 W8 one as a tester and one the owner is driving a Black/Black with lowered suspension 17" aftermarket wheels, spoiler ect...looked pretty aggressive.

Now i think about it that was the 1st time ive had a test drive in years they did not want to "photocopy my DL " and let ME drive off the lot. There was no sales pressure, then again said salesman may want as many rides as he can get

DL

pkradd · May 2002

The standard 1.8T Engine has plenty of power when needed. The question is whether it has agresssive acceleration from a stop. It does not. However, manually shifting up a ramp will take care of that to some extent. Once going the engine seeems to like high revs and speed. I'm not interested in getting to the next light first and my driving habits don't require that I floor the pedal every time. When I do there isn't a problem. Just my thoughts.

barkasy1 · May 2002

Man oh man, my car arrived in Brunswick, GA this weekend and was cleared by customs on Tuesday. Still no clue when it's going to be at my dealer in Florida. Any clues on what to do when I go to pick up the car? Should I buy some extra fluids from VW for top-offs?

Oh, are there any Florida VW owners out there who can reccomend thier service departments. I live on the west coast of Florida in Sarasota and can go from Ft. Myers to Tampa if I have to.

Thanx, DAve ;^)

markcincinnati · May 2002

Before I begin: 4Motion (or quattro) is both a performance and safety enhancement and for around $1,600 is relatively inexpensive for the sure footedness it provides on slick surfaces and the imrpoved "hunker down" factor it provides under any circumstance. Don't leave home without it. There are many web sites that extol the virtues of AWD (when done correctly) and both VW and Audi do "do it right!"

Now back to the topic of the dealers for Phaetons and W8 Passats. . . .

Over on the A4 town hall some of the posters agree that the CURRENT crop of VW dealers are not of the caliber required to sell W8 Passats and especially Phaetons. They say that VW needs to behave more like many Audi dealers who for lack of a better example have taken a page out of the Lexus dealership "rules of behavior and appearance."

Our friend on this board, VWGUILD, knows, I am certain, the requirements that the VW dealerships will have to meet to sell Phaetons and even the W8's I presume. But I thought I would share a perspective that I was given by a friend of mine, who until recently owned a VW dealership -- read on:

"Both Audi and VW dealerships, but especially VW since many Audi dealerships are already considerably down the "Lexus" path, have marching orders from AoA and VWoA to raise their standards. My friend who until recently owned both a VW and an Audi and a Porsche dealership (and VW was 20 miles from the Audi/Porsche store) said that VW has put those dealerships who wish to have signigicant ability to sell W8 Passats and especially Phaetons on notice that they will have to shape up.

I don't know if this means live piano music, but it absolutely means major steps forward and a paradigm shift (god I can't believe I used that word, next I'll be saying bottom feeders) upwards in look (physical plant), service and sales staff professionalism.

There is a beautiful Audi dealer in Dallas (I do not remember the name) that must already be in compliance with this directive. As I recall they had their own Audi boutique and a full line of Audi clothes and leather goods (briefcases, golf accessories, etc.) and Audi accessories. The sales people were more like tailors in a fine clothing store -- they had "nailed it."

Anyway, part of the directive from der fatherland (motherland?) and here on this side of the ocean is to rachet up the dealerships -- big time (and BTW they have very little time to do it, something on the order of "by 2002 end").

If I am not 100% accurate in every detail, I am confident that the spirit of what I said is true."

pkradd · May 2002

I purchased my 2001.5 Passat at a dealership in Pompano Beach, FL. On my last visit for the 10,000 mile service, the manager asked me why I came all the way to their dealeship when a rival dealer just opened a beautiful new state-of-the art facility in Coral Springs, where I live. This dealership has an ad in the paper this morning with 225 Passats for sale! After waiting two hours for my car I mentioned that I'd be going there next time and sarcasticaly said, "thanks for all your help and advice". The dealer where I bought my car is the pits. Their cramped quarters and filthy service bays are a disgrace. I should add that they also sell BMW's and told me that that part would be moving to a new location.

vwguild · May 2002

What your friend is referring to is the *Brand
Standards Program*.

This policy requirement was launched in January
at Dealer meetings that were held coast to coast.
And full compliance is, indeed , expected by Q4 2002...Although this may appear to provide little
time to get it done...This is really not the case.
At the Dealer Meeting(1999) in Palm Srings
all of the Dealer Principals were presented with
two Ltd. Edition/numbered water color prints...one
is of the Concept 1, and the other is of the New
MarketPlace. There is a complete story over at the
Vortex in the Archived News section about the
MarketPlace initiative, by the way...But the key
here is that over the entrance is painted the number 2003...Now I have this print framed and
hanging in my office, and have made a point of
noting this *2003 Address* to all who would listen. In addition, the Dealer Meeting in 2001
was held in Berlin, where all VW Products & prototypes were on Display...Touareg, D1, New
Beetle Cabrio, W8, etc. In other words the Corporate dirction has been out on the table for
several years.

The Brand Standards Program covers every level at
a Dealership...From VWOA's approval of the General Manager to the required number of Technicians & Service bays, and everything in between...VW specific Sales Personnel, Sales
Personnel Attire, Customer/Service Wait areas, and, of course, the MarketPlace Facility itself.

Several design variations are available, allowing
Dealers in all categories; small & large, to participate on an appropriate level.

And *participation* is the key word...The Brand
Standards Program was put together by the Dealer
Council and it has been incorporated into the Basic Dealer Agreement...Bottom line...if you are
not *participating* you are in violation of your
Dealer Agreement.

What will happen in this situation is not exactly
clear, but one could very safely assume that Dealers who are not compliant will find very few
of the new products available to them, but will
have a very large assortment of Black, White & Red Jettas...;)

trlyka · May 2002

VW People,

Please, I need someone to tell me if I'm making the right decision. I've been looking for a used car (can't afford new at the moment) and I fell in love with the Jetta (1999 or newer). Since looking for anything within my budget, I have noticed a 1999 VW Passat GLS V6 with sunroof and auto trip tonic trans for sale from a private owner. It's been sitting at a mechanics shop/gas station for about 1 and 1/2 months. Thinking it was a Jetta, I stopped to look and only after going to the rear of the car did I notice it was the Passat and not the Jetta. Anyway......I finally stopped and asked about the car (figuring it was way out of my price range) and decided to just "check out" how much the owner was asking. So I found out he wanted $9,500 for the car. WoW I thought that was a bargin! I also discovered that it had over 94,000 miles on it. Yes 94,000. So I contemplated for a few days and decided that since it's a VW and I really like the way it looks, I'll test drive it just to see. I took it out the first time with the mechanic who's garage it was sitting for sale at and he wouldn't let me go on the highway since he didn't have permission from the owner. Ok, so now I have to call the guy and ask. Turns out, it was fine for me to take it out on the open highway. So I drove it and I loved it.

A few things though......

I noticed that the front brakes were thumping. The mechanic said it was from sitting. Well that was total BS. Also, there seemed to be a very slight tick coming from the motor, but it was nothing serious. So I thought about it some more and I called the guy and asked if I could take it to my mechanic to have him look it over. He said fine. So I got the report back saying that the reason the front brakes were thumping was because the front rotors were never re surfaced after the last changing of the pads and they were now wearing grooves into the disc. Also the windshield has a knick in it and some boot thing in the tie rod will need replacing. Otherwise, nothing major is wrong. I figure with replacing the windshield and rotors, total repairs would run about $800.

I ended up starting my offer at $6,500 and I was willing to go to $8,000. He wants $8,500 and not a dollar less. I can't blame him since the value is about $12-13K between the trade value and what a private owner should ask for it.

So with all that information, I'm asking is it wise to buy the car for around $8,500, or should I look for a car I don't really want as much, but with less miles?

The car seems smooth and it cleans up nice. After all, it's only a '99.

I plan on keeping it for 2 or more yrs. depending on my financial situation in the future. My last car I had for about 5 yrs. and I only put 50,000 miles on it.

I really want it and I can afford it.

What should I do??

Thanks for reading this long post

steveiowa · May 2002

I love my Passat...LOVE it. With that said, 94K on a VW are a lot more miles than 94K on a Camry or an Accord...if you know what I mean. When I bought my Passat, I knew I would trade it long before it accumulated that kind of mileage. If I had bought an Avalon (my other choice), I would have factored in keeping it a lot longer.

I don't think the B5 platform has been around long enough to have a longevity record. They came out in 1998, so the oldest ones would have to have been driven nearly 20,000 miles a year to get up in the range you're talking about.

I have no clue how much a B5 with 94K should be worth...or more importantly, what it should be worth to YOU. You mention the figure $12-13K...that's just a number. The true value is/will be determined by how much the seller and the buy agree upon.

Glad I could help. LOL.

trlyka · May 2002

I hear what you're saying about the mileage. Do you really think a Toyota or the like is better with high mileage then a German car?? I hear people saying "Oh, a VW, they can go for at least 200,000 k if taken care of properly". Like I said, I've put in the information on several different sites as to the value of the car even with 100,000 k on it and it's still over $12,000, so I think at $8,500, it's a good deal. If I get 2-3 yrs. out of it, I'd be happy. Let's hope I don't have to invest much more then the few things I mentioned and maybe a set of new Z rated tires.

Just by saying how much you love your car is a help.

Thanks

blackjetta18t1 · May 2002

japanese cars, especially Toyota and Honda are the benchmarks of reliability, where as Germans, and especially VW are not known for long term reliability.

vwguild · May 2002

Run a www.carfax.com Report before you do anything else...

Then call or go to your local VW Dealer...
Introduce yourself to the Service Manager, even
more helpful to go the one where you might get the car serviced. This done... explain the situation
and make an appointment to have them look at this
Passat...may cost $50-$100, but well worth it...
They will be able to punch in the VIN and get a history of Warranty work done on the car...Then
ask to get a list an estimate of the work that needs to be done, if any...

Go from there...;)

trlyka · May 2002

Thanks for the great advice, but I already did the CarFax thing (clean title) and I had my mechanic look at the car and give me the list of things that need to be done. Total costs were about $800. It needs a windshield (not right away) and new front rotors. I more then likely won't have someone else look at it before I decide to buy or not to buy.

Considering that I really like that particular car (there's only a few cars on the road I really like) and I can afford it, I think I'm willing to chance it. I just have to keep my fingers crossed.

vwguild · May 2002

I cannot over emphasize the need to get the actual
service history of this car before you lay down your hard earned money...Don't step over dollars
to pick up pennies...

markcincinnati · May 2002

If you paid out $8500 over a 36 month period of time and you could borrow money at 0.00% interest your monthly payment would be $236.00. If you have to borrow money how much do you think it will cost (would you accept $260 as a reasonable monthly payment?).

If you leased a brand new Jetta GLS (which is the middle model) with heated seats and the manual transmission, the MSRP is about $18,500. A lease on such a car for 36 months would be (if leased through VW) how much? Would you accept $231.25 if the money factor was 0.00% -- if the money factor is "normal" which it is not -- it is below normal -- would you accept a monthly payment of $260 (about)?

Would you like to have a full warranty? Passat at 94K NOPE, Jetta at 0 miles -- full warranty.

I would run as fast as possible to the VW dealer and negotiate (don't forget to lick the door handle) a 36 - 39 month lease with no money down and forget the used Passat -- you are either very cash flush (to fund the repairs) or you are blessed with incredible good fortune that nothing will break (and nothing is cheap on a Passat if YOU have to pay for it). And if you know the future that well -- then you are worth a fortune.

Seriously, lease a brand new car -- it is cheaper than a used one just about any way you cut it.

Hope this doesn't come to you too late.

trlyka · May 2002

A BIG IF.......

I really doubt I could get 0.00% on any new car. My credit is questionable and I'd be lucky to get 10% or less on financing or lease.

I understand what you are saying, and believe me, I would want nothing more then to get a brand new car. I simply can not afford what I want, so I'd rather buy something close to what I want so I'm not totally dissatisfied with driving like I have been with my recent P.O.S (87 Cougar)that finally got a leak in the radiator and I refuse to fix it. If I buy used, then I can save up to purchase what I want new within 2-3 yrs.

I do not want manual transmission and I want a V6.

I priced a Jetta with the minimum things I want, and it was still over $22,000 which is about $300 a month on a lease.

So with that, I don't have many choices given my financial situation.

Is 2-3 years and about 20-30,000 miles too much to ask from this '99 Passat?

If I get that, then it would be worth it.

A lease over 3 yrs. at $275 a month is $9,900 at ZERO percent APR.

Ahhhh, what to do

steveiowa · May 2002

Sounds like you've made up your mind...but I would HIGHLY recommend that you follow VWGuild's advice. He's proved himself a straight-shooter here and I would never ignore his advice out of hand, especially since he has nothing to gain from whatever choice you make. Check out the warrantee work. At least that would tell you if the car had had any defects repaired.

trlyka · May 2002

How can I get information on the Warranty work? The mileage on the car scares me, but the price works. I know I should follow my head and not my heart in this case, but it's a tough one to turn away from.

*I even had a dream about it 2 nights in a row.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Like I mentioned before, the Passat motor feels strong and smooth, and the repairs needed are not something that is a concern once they are fixed unlike getting a transmission repaired or something of the sort where you wonder how long the fix job will hold.

I would like to think I know a good thing when I see it.

I've had my share of temperamental cars and I've had a lot of experience with motors (for a girl). Example: I recently replaced the spark plugs, dist. cap and wires in my boyfriends '98 Jeep Wrangler. I've had to beg to get my '95 Wrangler motor replaced because I was right about bad lifters and I have a '72 Corvette that has had it's share of constant repairs.

Things will look better in the morning, right?

Thanks again

jj42 · May 2002

Excellent article---http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/60942/article.html

nucar02 · May 2002

Hi everyone!

Ok my delima...which engine model should I get?

I am leaning towards the 1.8T engine for my new Passat GLS Auto + Luxury, Monsoon & Leather...

BUT, are people happy with this engine? Or should I spend the extra 2K+ dollars for the V6.

I do drive a lot for my job (18K-22K yr), I do drive 60% HWY 40% city.

I wouldn't mind saving the money by buying the 1.8 .. but do not wanna regret the decision years from now..

Any advice on which engine to get?

Thanks..

759397 · May 2002

For most people the 180hp with the 1.8T is fine. For mostly highway you should be fine with the 1.8T, the better mileage wouldn't hurt either.

Unless someone has something fantastic to say about the V6 over the 1.8T, I would be leaning towards the 1.8.

dudleyr · May 2002

If you have driven the 1.8t and liked it, then buy it. Remember bigger is not always better. The 1.8 gets better mpg, and because it is lighter it handles and brakes better.

wacka · May 2002

I saw other peoples past posts, asking if Passat's were manufactured in Germany as opposed to Jettas assembled in Mexico.

Well reading the boards most people either didn't know or provide an answer, but I have found the answer.

Passat are assembled in Germany in case anyone is wondering. Also, the Jettas are assembled in Mexico with I think the exception of the wagons which are done in Germany (I think that's what the dealer told me)..

Anyway there's an easy way to figure out.. The VIN number.

If the 1st character of the VIN is a 'W' it was manufactured in Germany, if it is a '4' then Mexico.

For more info see the following handy link.

http://www.autoinsurancetips.com/vin.htm

759397 · May 2002

For most people the 180hp with the 1.8T is fine. For mostly highway you should be fine with the 1.8T, the better mileage wouldn't hurt either.

Unless someone has something fantastic to say about the V6 over the 1.8T, I would be leaning towards the 1.8.

nucar02 · May 2002

Thanks for the quick responses...regarding engine. Good thing is .. the Passat GLS with 1.8T Tiptronic is widely available here in the color I want (Silverstone Gray). Haven't been able to find a GLS V6..

Was thinking about Silverstone Gray with the Gray Leather Interior. Although the black leather looks real nice.. Black may be TOO HOT for the 100+ degree summers here in California.

Hey anyone know any Northern California dealers that like to "deal" low prices?

Do you think I can find one for $500-1000 over invoice anywhere?

thanks again!

vocus · May 2002

I never drove a Passat with the 1.8T, but I have a 2002 Jetta with that engine and the Tiptronic tranny. I had a loaner 2001 (old) Passat V6. The Passat didn't feel as athletic as my Jetta does, it felt slower actually. I much preferred the 1.8T, but like I said never tried the Passat with that engine.

Volkswagen Passat 2005 and earlier

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