Oldsmobile Intrigue

one2one · September 2002

I'm glad to see that FINALLY GM is bringing a car into production almost exactly as it appeared in concept. The exterior looks like what the Intrigue would have been if it had continued production.

That being said, I like the interior left of the radio. I agree with whoever said that that cheap plastic afflicts the console. And it's not even designed where one could dress it up with after market carbon fiber kits. Power is up but not what the concept had. But with 280lb torque and 250 horses, you'd have to be in the desert of Arizona to actually legally use it. More than enough for most driving situations.

All in all, I probably wouldn't get it, primarily because of that dash. I couldn't bear to look at that every day. But I do have my eye on the Chrysler Pacifica....

oldsman01 · September 2002

Since you didn't jump on it, I'm almost tempted to drive down to FL and check out that STS. J/K, can't really afford to trade right now, but if the car was in sound condition, that was an excellent deal. I've seen some decent deals on 2 & 3 year old STSs here, but nothing like that.

rjs200240, I'm glad someone other than me has brought up the point of the G35 being equally as "bizarre" looking as the CTS. I personally like the CTS alot and too think that the G35's front end looks like a watered down CTS's. And the rear looks like a cross between an Altima and a Corolla. Both cars are a break from their manufacturers traditional styling. And yes, the CTS has REAL not fake wood. From the improvements that look to be coming in 2004, the CTS will more than likely be the car that replaces my Intrigue. Unless I get tempted by a less than 2 year old STS with only 4K for under 30 grand. Despite the CTS's more nimble chassis and tighter handling, there is something about Northstar power that is tempting.

dindak · September 2002

one2one : Hard to see in the picture but the dash looks ok to me. I really like the available TAPshift, I would have to get that. Money will be a factor in my next sedan purchase. If I can swing it I will join oldsman with a CTS. If not, I think I will likely get the GP or a Maxima. Who knows, it's a few years away.

dbogey : What are you looking at now or do you think you will just hang on the the Intrigue?

b4z · September 2002

There are quite a few pics on the internet showing the '04 GP in a tan/neutral interior.
Looks very bright and clean. Better than the grey IMHO.
The steering wheel has an almost art deco appearence. Reminescent of the Packard banjo style
spokes.

b4z · September 2002

Straight from GM.

http://media.gm.com/

Stabili Trak, one piece body ring(like Impala)

car will be built in Oshawa.

Side curtain airbags, etc.

Looks like a winner.

dindak · September 2002

That's a pretty thorough description. I just can't see if the TAPshift is available on the GT. I would definitely give up an ohc engine for that feature (providing it works well).

jg28 · September 2002

I don't think they look similar at all. G35 looks clean. CTS is definitely a like it/hate it. I have seen it in black (CTS), though, and it looks more appealing.

b4z · September 2002

Was over at the cheersandgears site and they have really large pics of the new GP.
Looks like it doesn't offer digital climate control.
Is the intrigue the only wbody that offers that?

richs07 · September 2002

I've got a '99 GLS Intrigue with the 3.5 liter engine. Lately, I've been getting a very noticeable hesitation (very quick) while driving at any speed, accelerating or at constant speed. Also, the car sometimes stalls while decellerating (sp?). Have had it in the shop 3 times and they can't duplicate the problem and aren't getting any error codes in the computer. They say they downloaded some software that was supposed to fix the stalling, but it didn't work.

Can anyone give me any help on this problem?

oldsman01 · September 2002

It may be the GP has automatic climate control but with rotary(analog) knobs like the Tahoe/Suburban/Escalade does. GPs had auto dual climate control available until 2000 or 2001 and I'm not sure why it was dropped as I like this feature alot. I'd like to see the Impala offer this as well. The Buick Regal and Century offer climate control as well as the Intrigue. If the new GP does not have this is will be a lapse as now Honda Accords and Totota Camrys offer this feature. It used to be that GM cars had the advantage of offering features that were typically not available in a car's price class such as climate control on midsize sedans, automatic headlamps, and in the case of the Intrigue, PCS.

lmacmil · September 2002

The problem with all car mag road tests is that I'm sure the manufacturer goes over the cars with a finetooth comb to make sure everything is just perfect. At least Consumer Reports buys cars from a dealer so they get what any consumer would get. I can't explain the better performance the preview cars seem to deliver. You're right, production tolerances wouldn't explain a 1 sec. difference in 0-60 times.

ab348 · September 2002

Not sure what any of this has to do with Intrigues, but since it's being discussed...

To me the CTS and G35 are like oil and water. The CTS is unattractive to my eye and the A&S interpretation on it is very poorly handled. The G35 is a very attractive and clean design (except, I admit, for the taillights. Nissan needs to hire a new designer just to do that because almost all of their cars have terrible taillight treatments). Caddy may be getting a lot of attention for the CTS but is it the kind of attention they want? A lot of people simply are turned off by the car. Unlike the Intrigue design at least, which was a notably clean and well-executed style.

Re. the 2004 GP: hard to understand why GM is releasing this now, so far in advance. Might not do much for sales of the 2003 models. The exterior looks fine to me, nothing revolutionary, but a clean evolution of the current style. The interior disappoints. Too disjointed. I don't care for the overlapping individual-look guages on a car in this segment, there are too many unrelated circular forms on the dash, just like my dad's old '78 Lemans; and what's with the irregular transition between top of the center stack and the top of the instrument cluster? Must be a very pre-production piece to have a large lip like that showing. But the gray is never a good choice for an interior, so maybe it looks better in tan - anyone have links to that?

b4z · September 2002

Production of the 2004 GP starts in Jan/Feb 2003, so they will be on the streets befroe March. Only 5 months away.

b4z · September 2002

Just about all the cars you see in carmags before production starts have had their engines balanced and blueprinted.
The balancing doesn't help too much with horsepower but the blueprinting involves port matching.
They measure the ports on the intake manifold and on the heads and then make all the ports the same size as the largest port.
This alone can make 20-30 hp.
The ports will also line up better.
If you have ever watched any of the showroom stock races done by the SCCA all of the production based vehicles will have this done.
As you can guess an extra 15-20 or even 30 hp at the crankshaft on a car that is making 150-200 hp at the wheels, is significant.
Plus most of this power is on the top end so the car will really pull strongly above 3500 rpms.

Hope this helps.

dindak · September 2002

ab348 : I think since none of us can ever buy another new Intrigue, we are all just pondering our next sedan. You will probably see a lot of off topic car discussion here in the future. As for gray, that's all I ever get for an interior as I don't like tan. Only other color I would consider is black if I got a leather equipped car. It's just a taste thing, my parents love tan. As for the GP dash, it's a huge improvement and while not ideal to me, it will attract a lot of people.

javidogg · September 2002

I haven't been through here in a while, so I just wanted to let all you know that I'm listed over at Cardomain.com, Check out my Aurora, let me know what you all think. Peace.

http://www.cardomain.com/id/javidogg

jg28 · September 2002

But Aurora is done so much better. Take a minute and compare. It's amazing how similar they are. The taillights... the doors... the interior... right down to the cruise control stock on the right lower side of the steering wheel. The trip computer etc is in the same place as are the controls and it's angled toward the driver just like Aurora. But again, Aurora is pretty. The new Grand Prix isn't pretty. Is Bonneville going away then too since this Grand Prix looks like it'll replace it (Bonneville) as well as the current Grand Prix?

vcjumper · September 2002

The more I look at the side view, the more I think of a stretched Alero. But the Alero looks better proportioned. The current Aurora is sweet. Saw a silver on one with Chrome rims yesterday in a parking lot, most I've ever wanted one.

redline65 · September 2002

richs07: I've got the same model as you, and I was experiencing the same hesitation (one time I almost got nailed by side traffic because of it). Anyways, the dealer replaced the crankshaft sensor and the problem went away.

ab348: I don't think auto manufacturers can legally sell a 2004 model in 2002. I think they have to wait until January of 2003. I believe that is what Cadillac did with the CTS early this year.

dindak · September 2002

You are tight.. an 04 model can not come out until January 2003.

jg28 : I will reserve final judgment to when I see one in person. Pictures can be deceiving. All I can say for sure is that it's an improvement on the current model.

b4z · September 2002

LOL.

redline65 · September 2002

That's straight

vcjumper · September 2002

Been working out?

dindak · September 2002

George Strait??

;-)

wbhall · October 2002

I just went through about a thousand posts looking for what the final cure is for this problem. Can someone tell me the final answer (if there is one) and also the fix number so I can tell my local Olds dealer what it is? It seems that I am the only one that has this problem according to them. My Intrigue is a 2002 with about 36,000 miles on it and has dimmed since day 1. Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks!

dindak · October 2002

First I have heard of the problem in an 02 model. You have to get the alternator replaced and hope for the best. Apparently some people have had them changed more than once. I have the problem but it only happens in very cold weather. I am waiting to have it fixed on my 00 until the end of the warranty (as replacement parts carry another year of warranty).

swagled · October 2002

Well after driving a fully loaded car across the US and two Candian provinces, I'm back in NC. Even with all my stuff crammed in it and the A/C on, my car had plenty of guts to get around the slow pokes.

It is starting to have a few "funny" things now that it's two years old. Sometimes the low washer fluid light comes on when it shouldn't.And sometimes I have to turn the climate control off, then on again, to get ECON mode running.

I can ignore little things like that. But in a few days, I am going to take the car back to the dealership where I originally bought it, to try and get the steering lube and the headlight dimming fix.

The new tires feel better, but I still haven't had a chance to try them in an empty car.

oldsman01 · October 2002

The Intrigue now has an additional 1200+ miles thanks to what has become an annual weekend business trip to Chicago. Last year was the first time I drove as did nearly everyone at that time, and since I enjoyed the drive so much I decided to drive again this year. Especially since they couldn't gaurantee me a direct flight. First off let me say, whatever flaws this car has, once you get it on the road you forget them. I've probably said this before, but the Intrigue was made for the open road. Did the trip from door to door in 9 hours and that included a stop for lunch. I was consistantly above the 80 mph mark and not once, but TWICE engaged the speed limiter. Top speed it supposed to be 131 MPH but the speedo was between 125 and 130 when the PCM shut down the fun. And fun it was. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging about driving dangerously and yes it was probably somewhat dangerous driving at those speeds, but the road was flat and open with excellent visibility. I have no doubt the car could run like that all day. Interesting too was the number of Intrigues I saw on the road, especially on 65 in Indiana and in the Chicagoland area. Overall mileage for the trip was about 26.5 mpg. Not the best in the world, but considering the numerous full throttle passing lane sprints I made and average speed being probably close to 80 mph for the trip, I won't complain. What really made me mad was when I would be crusing merrily along at 80 or so and some jackalope in a Camry/Taurus/Buick/Malibu/etc would weave over in my lane as if he/she was simply enjoying a Sunday drive on a country road. So I'd have to slow down and then when I got my chance, kick her down a gear and leave them in the dust. Seriously, the biggest problem I encountered were people who literally don't know how to drive or the simple unwritten rules of the road(i.e. slower traffic keep right, singal before changing lane, don't tailgate, etc.). Anyway, had good driving weather and excellent music selection courtesy of XM radio and a few of my favorite CDs so the trip was pretty enjoyable. More enjoyable was the fact that I got home sooner than some folks I work with who had flown and got stuck in Detroit over night. It's still funny to see the look on some faces when I say I drove to Chicago, guess they just don't have a car that is actually fun to drive.

dindak · October 2002

swagled : Did you buy a new laptop?

dindak · October 2002

Went to drive my car home last night and the tire was completely flat. Just dropped it off at the Good Year place this morning. Anyone know if this kind of thing is covered by Goodyear? I'm guessing a nail or a piece of glass somewhere though I can't see anything.

oldsman01 · October 2002

I've recently begun to notice a couple of noises that I plan to have checked soon. One, when I turn the wheel sharply to the left I can hear a squeak coming somewhere from inside the instrument panel on the driver's side. The other noise I first noticed in the hotel parking garage in Chicago and that is a "groan" or rumble type sound that seems to come from the front end of the car when going around corners and descending(such as a parking garage). It's not real noticeable and you have to turn the radio off and A/C fan down to really hear it, but it too occurs while steering to the left.

dindak · October 2002

Well, $175 later I have a new Eagle LS on my Intrigue. Apparently the tires was likely slashed while parked. What a nightmare! I can't believe people do this kind of thing, unreal.

oldsman : Do you usually have the radio on? I always turn mine off every now and again to listen for any noises the car might be making. Sounds like that's what you do also.

RE 04 Grand Prix : I see in this months Motor Trend that there will be a high performance GP with an all new ohc V8. All I can say is WOW.

jg28 · October 2002

That blows. $175 for one new tire? That's outrageous I thought until I remember it was CAD. Hey can you find out more info for me about a US person coming north and buying a car in Canada?

rjs200240 · October 2002

If you go to Canada just to buy a car and bring it back, you will have problems. It's against the law. The car's warranty will also probably not be honored. Manufacturers have been cracking down on that a lot recently. Although, I think it's absurd that we basically pay a subsidy in the price of our cars so that they can be sold cheaper to Canadians.

wbhall · October 2002

I would like to thank whoever posted the contact "Eddie Goodwin at Biddolph Arrowhead Oldsmobile @ 623-933-3900" for latest information on this dimming problem. He was very knowledgable on this issue and didn't try to hurry me away even though I'm calling from a different state and not one of his customers. If all GM dealers had Service Managers like him we as customers would be a lot happier!

(FYI-My Intrigue is a 2002 model)
The problem with the dimming lights is only on the 3.5 liter engines which were used in the Intrigues. The culprit is the "Air Injection Pump" that kicks on to add more air to the fuel injection system. This pump pulls 45-60 watts of power which then causes the lights to dim. There is no current fix for this problem but he said the last he knew, GM was looking at re-writing the program so that the pump doesn't kick on all at once and cause the lights to dim. He also said there is nothing to worry to about in regards to the lights quit working all together. Changing the alternator wouldn't help because my 2002 would already have the newest version! I mentioned back to him that I have actually had the car in front of me at night (driving on the highway) wave back at me because he thought I was flashing my lights at him and that wasn't good and he agreed with me on that. With that happening by being accidently in a bad section of some town could possibly cause some bad things to happen. I know I'm be a little melow dramatic there but anything is possible in the world we live in today!

I hope that this answer or lack of an answer helps everyone with the dimming light problem!

dindak · October 2002

Buying used cars is not a problem. Buying new from most manufactures is now a problem as the screws have been tightened so to speak.

As for the "subsidy" comment... The US dollar has increased in value so much over the past 3 years that car makers can not pass on that change here or no one would buy cars anymore. You are talking about 10%! It's not only cars that are cheaper, almost everything is. When I go into Subway in Buffalo a small sub costs $3.89 US. In Canada, the price is the same but in Canadian $$. This means that sub really costs me almost C$6 in Buffalo which is outrageous IMO. My basic observation for most things (cars excluded) is that the price numbers are the same in the UK, US and Canada, only the currencies make thing here cheaper. I know this because when relatives come from Europe they go shopping crazy.

FX rate on car prices is between 1.4 and 1.5 here. The actual FX is now 1.6. I suspect in the years to come you will see the FX rate go back down and the car issue will die.

oldsman01 · October 2002

I have the radio on nearly all the time. I guess I noticed the noise because I was in a parking garage in Chicago and there was no XM signal in there and the last time I had listened to an FM station was back in TN so rather than try to surf the dial while finding a parking space, I turned the radio off. This is when I noticed the noise in the front end while making left turns. I can hear the squeak from the left side of the instrument panel even when the radio is on and it actually does it when making sharp turns of the wheel to both the left and the right.

wbhall, seems I remember reading a past a while back that also linked the "flicker" to the AIR pump. I'm not sure that is my problem or not as when mine flickers(it's hasn't lately) it will do it over and over. Sometimes only seconds apart. I can't imagine the AIR cycling on and off that rapidly.

sda · October 2002

I am curious. Since the 3.5 V-6 has heritage to the Northstar V-8, what replacement parts (if any) are the same? For example, does 3.5 V-6 share the same oil filter configuration and thus use same replacement cartridge? All is well with our Intrigue. OH!, Oldsman01, glad to hear your Intrigue drives so well (and fast). Drive that fast 'in these parts' and you'll be checked in to the 'cross bar motel'! Enjoy.

rjs200240 · October 2002

Since I have a service manual that covers both the 3.5 and the 4.0, I can probably answer your question somewhat. The 4.0 and 4.6 have regular screw-on type oil filters. I'm not sure why the 3.5 has that cartridge. Since the block only has 6 cylinder holes, and the heads only 3 combustion chambers, these are obviously not shared. However, I'd bet they have a great deal in common design-wise. I don't know if the valves and springs and such are the same, but it's possible. The pistons and connecting-rods aren't the same because the 3.5 has a very different bore and stroke from the 4.0/4.6 (which share a stroke, and crank and con-rods). The 3.5 and 4.0 appear to have pretty different intakes too. I don't think the throttle-body is the same, as they appear to have different passages in the manual (the 3.5 is configured flip-flopped from the 4.0 TB, i.e. the throttle cable and the sensors are on opposite sides. But the passages aren't the same, so I don't think it's the same part turned upside down). On the Aurora, the airbox is the same for the 3.5 and 4.0, but it probably isn't the same on the Intrigue.

The cam timing appears to be different as well. The duration is listed for the 4.0, but not for the 3.5. However, the exhaust and intake centerlines are not the same. The intake and exhaust lift is the same. The valves are weird because of how they are listed. Here are the valve head diameters listed for the 3.5: Intake 36.2mm, Exhaust 28mm. Now for the 4.0: Intake 34.090-34.350mm, Exhaust: 27.880-28.140mm. I'm not sure why one is listed as absolutes while the other is listed as a range.

A little history of the 3.5 might explain a little bit. When the 3.5 debuted in 1999, the 4.0/4.6 were basically unchanged from the first Northstar (or actually Aurora, since Caddy stole it from Olds) V8. The 3.5 took that basic architecture and freshened it up. They didn't just lop off two cylinders. The 3.5 got coil-on-plug ignition and was able to run on regular gas. The intake was changed too (the 3.5 has a water-crossover in the intake path instead of having cooling hoses run to the throttle-body) It was the start of the redesign of the Aurora/Northstar V8s. It was more high-tech than the 1999 Northstar or Aurora V8. Then for 2000, the Northstar and Aurora V8's got updated. They too got coil-on-plug and a bunch of other stuff (quieter intake, lower emmissions, all sorts of things). The new Aurora and Northstars can run on regular gas too, but they have a 10:1 compression ratio instead of the 9.3:1 the 3.5 got. There were changes to the intake (the water crossover is different on the 4.0 than the 3.5) and the valves and many other things. I imagine they started with the changes made to the 3.5 and went from there. So the 3.5 is sort of an in-between from the old Aurora/Northstar and the new Aurora/Northstar V8's. At least that's my take on it.

Oh, also the 3.5 has a balance shaft which isn't needed in 90-degree V8's (as they can be naturally balanced).

lmacmil · October 2002

I've got a lot of CD of MP3s. Has onyone replaced the factory head unit with either an aftermarket unit that plays MP3s or even just a regular CD player? Anyone recommendations or watch out fors?

focus · October 2002

my windshield got fog up very easily, as soon as i got in, even with the window roll down, a slight haze develop in the front. anyone know why or have similar experience?

focus · October 2002

in an intrigue, barr none! The factory speaker system is not bad, but if you want top notch sound, you got to replace them (made in mexico).
i finally have mime replaced, tweeter and woofer; along with a sony head unit, a carver amp, a sony digital processor, a 10 disc sony cd changer and a 15" infinity woofer (disconneted my rear). I am in sonic heaven....

vcjumper · October 2002

I have a sony 10 disc changer that plays mp3 cd's, works quite well. Also have a Sony ES head unit though along with a JL Audio sub and replaced speakers/installed an amp.

They do make a model that works through an RF modulator though (So you tune to a fixed FM frequency to hear the CD changer).

There are a tonne of head units out now that play mp3 cd's, maybe check out www.caraudioforum.com or epinions.com?

vcjumper · October 2002

Played with one on the highway today when I noticed him approaching me quickly in the left lane when I was going 85mph or so. He pulled a bit on me on our 60-100mph runs, but less than a full car length, closer to half. Maybe he was driving an automatic.

b4z · October 2002

Altima auto does 0-60 in about 7.3 secs.
Intrigue is around 7.6-7.8 secs.

b4z · October 2002

What kind of speakers did you use to replace the factory speakers?
(other than sub)

lmacmil · October 2002

Is your changer mounted in the trunk?

moonshadow · October 2002

it is comforting to find a service manager with some real perspective on theirs and even others customers.

The problem with 2001 is very common as it was why my dealer finally replaced mine. First they tried to tell me that they fixed the problem in 2000 and the 2001's didn't have the problem (mine also from day 1).

When he contacted gm they informed him that 2001's did have the problem and replaced the altenator. Worked for a week and then started up again, but to a lesser extent.

When I went it for the 3rd one he said some 2002 still are problematic. I suspect that they all do it, But most do not drive at night or just think like I did at first and thought I was just blinking, reflections on the road or going over bumps.

Buddy's story about the air injection pump is hooey and a diversion tactic from gm because they do not have a clue why or do not want to put up the investment to fix the problem. Need a few dead bodies where they can not blame it on driver error. ( firestone/ ford).

My lights flickered off and on several times, 4 to 5 , sometimes the whole car twitched or hesitated, like the tranny just slipped.

Watts or power is voltage times current, P=V*I. If the pump draws 65 watts then the current is a little more than 5 amps. If a car cannot supply 5 amps on demand then we are in real big trouble. The blower motor on high will pull close to 15 amps, headlights 10 amps, power windows on start about 4 to 5 amps. My problem happened all the time: summer, winter ,day, night , dry, wet , foggy ,damp, full moon etc. In the day your blower motor will slow down for an instant.

I've had people flashing their lights at me coming toward me but your experience of the guy in front getting ticked because he thinks your jerking him around. Potential for road rage. My concern was also road safety

Good luck. I have attached a scope inside the vehicle and watched the battery voltage. A normal running regulation is around 13.5 to 14 volts. As your driving or sitting still this will fluctuate, always down, as far as 11.9 to 12 volts. No wonder the injection pump of 5 amps is jerking it around. I will wager that the air pump is a victim and not the cause. The altenator. should be at least 75 amps and should handle 5 for a joke. Can you imagine if all car lights flickered every time your delayed wipers activated(3 to 6 amps), you adjusted your power seat(4 amps), turned your blower up a notch(3amps), turned on your rear defroster(10 amps), signal light (4 amps). Any way I'm sure you get the point. Do not settle for that cop out. Different new alternators work differently, Last time gm made them do a load test and authorized a new new replacement based on that result. I have been driving and working on cars for 25 years and have not had flickering problems like this unless the regulator is shot.

sda · October 2002

Thanks RJS200240 for the detailed history/overview about our 3.5 V-6. What a sweet engine. Who knew that Olds was up to something great only to have Cadillac steal if from them (Northstar V-8)!! If GM had let Olds show their creative side without interference, well Olds might still be a viable brand. Water under the bridge... I do find it interesting that the cartridge type oil filter appears to be unique to the 3.5. I think its a good design, but with relatively few 3.5s produced, there won't be much of an aftermarket in filters. As such, we are blessed with limited availability at parts stores and higher replacement cost.

white6 · October 2002

I understand what you are saying. I recently added an electric fan to my 97 Dakota (ditched the ancient, noisy, and inefficient engine driven fan) which pulls about 25 amps. I notice when it kicks on at night the lights will briefly dim. Very similar to the Intrigue. I even upgraded to a 136-amp alternator in the truck (inevitable, since it only had a wimpy 90-amp unit; not sufficient for trailering, etc.) but the headlights still flicker slightly. Of course, this is a 25 amp load, and probably closer to 40-amps start-up load, and it is still not as bad as our Intrigue was prior to having the alternator replaced. Our 99 GL 3.5 has been working fine since it was replaced in Feb. of 2001 (knock on wood). It got so bad, my wife was scared to drive it at night. One other tip that is isn't just the pump... it works fine for a while, then starts flickering. Ask them if the pump doesn't work for the first 5,000 miles of a car's life (?) If so, then it's an acceptable excuse. I think it's a break-down of something in the voltage regulator circuit.

Oldsmobile Intrigue

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