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Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans
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I have now had my C240 (Black/Charcoal, C2,C4) for one week and am very happy with it. I drive a lot (600 miles so far) and most is on the highway.
I made the right choice for my tastes and habits and assume that most everyone else here feels the same.
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/grey_midlux.htm
Saying that rear side airbags are not suitable if you have kids is a blanket statement, in my humble opinion. There are different types. The NHTSA has asked the manufacturers to de-activate the rear side airbags only if they find that it's detrimental. Mercedes-Benz has determined that their side impact airbags are safe (remember that they don't blow up very much, unlike the much larger front airbags) and that in an accident, they do a lot more good than harm. As such, they will not de-activate the rear ones, even if requested. BMW's rear side impact airbags are optional even on the top of the line 7-series. If you order this option, they come de-activated from the factory and before the dealer will activate them, you have to sign a waiver which states that you accept all responsibility and that BMW cannot be held liable. Because MB's side head protection curtain airbags deploy and drop down from the headliner, they present only a minimal risk even to kids.
However, this doesn't mean that you should lean against the door though. I make sure that my passengers are aware of this and I keep an eye on them. If they feel like sleeping, I tell them to fold down the rear centre armrest and lean that way. Adding a large pillow there helps a lot and they'll find it more comfortable than leaning against the door and glass anyway.
A few pictures, courtesy of the IIHS - From top to bottom: C-class, S80, 3-series. It is quite clear why the C-class was rated the top performer for this test:
There already is a BMW 3-series vs MB C-class discussion topic. I invite you (and anyone else) to carry on this discussion at length in there.
/direct/view/.ef0177d
Drew
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My comment about kids and rear bags specifically was geared towards leaning on the doors. Every kid I know does this, and it can cause harm to them in an accident if they're leaning on the door when the bag deploys.
I guess my point was this - more airbags isn't necessarily better, but not necessarily worse, either.
As for leaning against the doors, it's just something that will have to be unlearnt, and something that the driver should watch out for. It definitely would not stop me from ordering this option if I wanted a BMW.
Good luck,
Drew
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As for the A4, here's a link to the European front offset and side impact crash tests:
http://www.fia.com/tourisme/crash2/audi4.htm
Drew
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http://www.fia.com/tourisme/crash2/audi4.htm"
Drew, I'm afraid that's a dated test (1997 model). Please try the results for the 2001 A4:
http://www.euroncap.com/details.php3?id=audi_a4_2001_2
MUCH better! (Similar to the improvement between '97 and '01 C-Classes.)
While on the subject of the NCAP test, I'm sure this has been answered somewhere here before, but why does the C-Class test say "[airbag curtain] worked in the test but did not deploy fully. Experts feared that in other situations it might not do its job?"
http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum1/HTML/019222.html
I'm not sure why the side head curtain didn't deploy fully. May have been a fluke. I wonder if MB will ask them to retest?
Drew
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I guess I can't be too shocked at the current-model-U.S.-A4 not doing too hot; the A6 only scored "acceptable" in the IIHS test. I'd expect any newer Audi to do well, though, given the high scores (IIHS and NCAP) for the Passat, which is a relatively fresher design.
Say, what's that Renault Laguna like as a vehicle anyway? Noticed the five-star score in NCAP (no ESP though). Also, what's a "double pre-tensioner" belt?
The Renault Laguna's five star score in EuroNCAP is remarkable. But it is no Mercedes - the styling is messy. And based upon Renault's patchy history regarding quality (I've owned many Renaults over the years) I'd be surprised if it's as reliable as the C.
Mike
MB Canada still officially maintains that the C-class will not receive the 4-matic option till fall of 2002, for the 2003 model year. However, the 4-matic option will be released in Europe in the Spring of 2002; my salesguy still expects it to be available as a mid model year 2002 option since this is what they have been told in all of the past and recent product training sessions. I guess we'll see what happens in the next few months.
Drew
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that question. Two months after picking up my C320, my wife
told me she want a divorce. The good news I keep my C320 and
three dogs, but the bad news is my wife takes the mini-van. Although
I love my C320, I cannot imagine hauling three medium sized dogs in
it.
So (finally) here are my questions: (1) How much do you think I can get
for my C320, and (2) What would you get to replace it?
Here are the specs on the car:
2001 C320
Desert Silver 625
Java Leather Interior 1,375
COMMAND 2,035
K2a (Phone & Voice) 2,190
C2: Rain Sensor, 1,340
Sunroof, Rear
Sunshade
C4: Heated Seats, 800
Headlamp washers
Dest & Delivery 645
TOTAL PRICE 45,960
Also:
Invisible-Bra ($595)
All-Season Mats
Trunk Cargo Nets (Front, Left-side and Floor)
Mileage: 4,500 miles
[If you are interested, I'm in the Boston area.]
The next question: What would you replace it with? Nothing comes
close to the features and luxury of my C320. But here's what I am
considering so far:
2001 Used ML-430
2000 Used ML-320
2001 VW GLX Passat Wagon w/ 4Motion
2001 BMW 325xi Wagon
I'd like to stick with MB; however, the M series does not have a
great reliability record (although it's been improving). Any thoughts
on the above cars or other suggestions. My major requirements
are:
1) Ability to transport three medium sized dogs (i.e. wagon
or small SUV).
2) All-wheel (4-wheel) drive. It's something I always wanted.
Seeing that I'm giving up my C320 luxury, I thought I'd finally
make this a hard requirement.
3) Navigation. It's aided my tremendously in my C320. I'd
prefer it directly from the manufacturer (usually better integration,
but given the right car, I can go after-market).
4) Nothing less than a '99, preferably 2000 or 2001.
I'd also like (but don't require) an integrated phone. My budget is
the sales proceeds from the C320 (I don't owe anything on it) +
approx. another 5K (3K if the Nav is not included).
Sorry for the long post. I will appreciate any thoughts you might
have.
Thanks.
Robert
The M-Class has improved greatly over the past few years. There have been a lot less complaints abould build issues on the ML now.
Why dont you join us in the M-Class groups, mention specific problems that you have heard about the M-Class and let people address them... You will find that the people with the 2000, and even moreso with the 2001 that they have had significantly less problems.
Rpobert
Robert
Among your potential candidate cars, I do not feel a 325xi wagon can fufill your need as it is not much bigger than a C. My suggestion is to consider a brand new E320 sedan or wagon. It provides enough space, has navigation and 4matic options, a mature MBZ that is reliable, there are plenty of them in dealer's lots to bargain with, and many people hold off their purchase of E until the completely redesigned ones come out next year. At least in June, MBZ has $2k unadvertised dealer incentive and people have been able to get them $2000-2.5k below invoice. I read from the E class town hall a guy was paying $44800 for a brand new 2001 E320 wagon ($2200 under invoice / $6700 below MSRP). If you trade in your C for an E at the same dealer, the dealer may be business-minded and kind enough to get you an E320 within your target budget (C sales proceeds + $5k).
My 2 cents. Good luck.
IMHO, Renault has a somewhat different philosophy on car design than other manufacturers. They seem more willing to trade off mileage and acceleration for a car that has heavier sheet metal to protect the occupants. The hood, for example, was very rigid and heavy. Perhaps this philosophy wouldn't lead to success in the US market.
Anyway, the car was terrific. It was nimble enough for a car with a 2 l. engine and auto transmission, and was also reliable. The only problem I had was at the outset the a/c condensate leaked into the passenger compartment due to an incorrectly routed tube. The car is still being driven by my colleague, who loves it.
The five star-ranked Laguna in the EuroNCAP test is only the new 2001 model, which is, as you likely know, totally different from the version of the 1990s.
Mike
For example, the current S-class uses twice as much high strength steel as its predecessor, which was actually already excellent in crash tests. It was so good that other (smaller) cars - this was a test done in Europe with a Golf- could be brutally damaged in an accident. Hmmm, sounds familiar to that SUV vs car thing doesn it ;-). In any case, in the early 1990's, MB started designing their vehicles to be more crash friendly to other vehicles without compromising any occupant safety of their vehicles. More costly and time consuming, but they did it anyway. The end result is part of the reason why the SMART didn't get squished in this crash with the current S-class:
http://www.off-road.com/mbenz/videos/Sclass_Smart.avi
There's a lot more to a MB vehicle than meets the eye...definitely more than just a prestigeous brand name.
Drew
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There is a whole lot of generalizations here. The occupants were probably hurt because there were no seat belts, or old type seat belts, no head rests, structurally poor seating rather than "thick sheet metal" on the outside of the cars.
And currently, it's the fact that the cars are designed to absorb the forces of the impact by crushing (like a soda can) rather than "high strength" sheet metal that results in "excellence" in the crash tests.
The high strength steel that I mentioned is used for the structure (i.e. cross members, roof pillars, etc.), and not the body work itself.
Drew,
What do you make of the NCAP's comment below on the new C offset test results?
"The drivers head and chest were well restrained by the belt and the airbag. However, his chest was subjected to high forces that are often a feature of stiff cars."
The one touch opening and closing feature no longer works. I have to keep pressing the switch in order for it to open a few inches at a time. The pop-up vent position is only activated if I push the button in opposite directions.
Monday, I will be calling my dealer, Prestige Motors in Paramus,NJ. Hopefully, they will get me in right away and correct the problem.
If I remember correctly, from reading past comments here on the board. The sunroof needs to be reset or resynched or recycled (or whatever you want to call it) electronically.
Fell free for anyone who had this problem to correct me on the remedy and comment on their experience with the sunroof problem.
I will certainly post my comments here as soon as the problem is fixed.
mbnut: I'm actually not sure what to make of it. I had a look at the IIHS data and it the chest compression is the same as the also "good" rated (and much larger) Volvo S80. It was only very slightly more (3 millimetres, specifically) than the BMW 3-series. I wonder if the Euro cars have a slightly different airbag? I know that Australian cars do (larger).
Drew
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Regards,
Leon
I have posted the rest of the pictures of this car in the C-class Photo gallery topic:
drew_ "MB C-Class Owners: Photo Gallery" Jul 10, 2001 12:47am
A lot more MB accident pictures here:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=137587&a=10126395
Drew
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M
The big question is how the supercharged 2.3 behaves in this chassis; MB made a lot of changes in the past 18 months to take much of the growling, unrefined character out of this engine, but I need some real-world seat time to see how all of this shakes out. Ride / handling should be about the same as a sport-package equipped sedan, as this is the basis for the shock-spring settings.
IF MBUSA can restrain itself and the dealers in how these cars are equipped initially, you might actually see cars you can buy for $27-28k...my guess is closer to $30k, because of the initial fascination with the pano roof [which I wouldn't have if they were giving it away], and the usual penchant for ordering all of the cars with multiple option packages. We'll see...
I will try it before I bring it in to my dealer on Thursday. I'll post my results Thursday evening.
As usual, I can always count on this board for helpfull info.
Mercedes-Benz should pay all of us, for all the support and knowledge we share with each other.
Peterun "Mercedes-Benz C230 (2002)" Jul 3, 2001 5:36pm
The "All about cars" radio show also did a review on the coupe a couple of weeks ago, and compared it to the Acura RSX. Overall, the guy loved it and said that for $27K nicely equipped (with the moonroof), and $30K fully loaded, he couldn't imagine another car right now that would compete value, safety, and resale value-wise. Here's the link to the clip (you'll probably have to open Windows Media Player and paste it directly into the Open location box's field). He also goes on to discuss the Ford/Firestone thing, with some interesting points that I didn't know about, as well as what happened to MB in the early 1990's :
http://wtdy.com/car_audio/aac0630hour1.wma
Merc1: At least the rear occupants would've survived in this collision though! Seatbelts are always a must, of course. There are more pictures (different angles) that I posted in the photo gallery topic, so that it doesn't slow down the loading of this page for some that have slower dialup connections.
Drew
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I'm not fond of coupe seating, but never have been (I've disliked all coupes I've sat in except the CL :-).
The interior felt a little cheapy to me, but I think it's the lack of leather seats that does it now that I'm spoiled ;-)
Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/mercedeschat.html
Drew
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If you look on the specs page, it says that the cars come with a full factory warranty. This is probably due to the fact that they are US-spec vehicles. It says that you are under no obligation to take delivery of the vehicle even after it has arrived in the US. It's up to you to inspect first and only if you like it do you have to take it. You have to pay for the shipping though, of course.
Let us know what you find out!
Drew
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BTW, regarding the press fleet vehicles, they're either sold with a full disclosure of their histories, or they are crushed. MB tends to crush all of their pre-production/prototype vehicles.
"We keep the manufactures protective coating on new vehicles until they reach the USA port and all new vehicles have less than 10 miles on the odometer."