Isuzu Owners Maintenance and Repair

sbcooke · January 2002

I disagree. I think cars have only gotten better. Some arguements can be made that some manufacturers have slipped, or that some would rather fix a problem after sale than change production lines.

Overall I don't think we are seeing a product that is worse or less reliable than 5-10 years ago. Forget about mid-80's, taken as a whole, I think it is much better.

keepontroopin · January 2002

Where did you apply the adhesive and what type of adhesive did you apply?

spirolli · January 2002

Yes, I believe I had the fuel line recall done. Is that where they put the skid plates under the fuel lines (underneath the car) to better protect them in a collision ? If so, yes, I had it done.
Someone (it might have been you pasian) recommended I check the fuel lines and break lines awhile back. I did. They are very tight where they run right up against the fire wall.. as best I could tell anyway.

I did have a loose screw under the dash that sounded like an alarm clock. (on the drivers side) They literally had to take my entire dash board apart to find it. It turned out to be the mounting screw behind the speedometer had worked it's way loose. Again, only in cold weather and at higher RPM's. Boy was that a bear to find. It sounded like the buzzing of an alarm clock.

I used a standard clear epoxy for windshield molding. I believe it's holding pretty well. I guess I can always take it to a glass shop to have them take off and remount the entire front windshield but I am not convinced that's what it is. Reason being is I can't repeat the sound by pushing, pulling or tapping anything myself. I have to be on the highway, 60 Mph+, 45 degrees or colder.

Thanks for any input.

Steve

spirolli · January 2002

Sorry "keepontroopin" as I didn't answer your question completely.

I applied the adhesive to the entire bottom molding that runs the length of the front windshield. I also worked my way up about 1/2 the way on each side (toward the roof). I lifted it up slightly with a screw driver and applied a think coat of glue. I then layed weights on top of the molding to hold it down while the glue set-up.

It really made no difference in terms of tightening up the molding. From what the dealer tells me, it's supposed to be somewhat flexible and not rock hard. I asked them to reseat the windshield. Originally they agreed and I scheduled a time to have it done. When I took the truck in to have it complete, they called me and told me that the window people said it would make no difference if they reseated/re molded the front windshield since there was nothing wrong with the way it was currently installed. That's when I really felt like choking my service advisor at Davis Isuzu in Richboro, PA. I also felt like choking him when he told me about the spot weld crap. All in all, they are a pretty good dealership and service center. Don't forget, this is the dealership that completely repainted all 4 of my outer wheels wells when the paint got chipped off from a hunting/off roading trip in the mountains in Potter County, PA. So they are really not that bad.

I noticed that there is some play in the molding about 5-6 inches in from either side along the bottom. I can push in and out on the black molding and produce a slight tapping sound. That's what was making me think it was the molding.

Steve

paisan · January 2002

There were 2 recalls for the fuel lines. 1 was for the plates, the 2nd was for the actual lines IIRC.

If you live near richboro, pa, you probably are near flemington subaru/isuzu in NJ. If that is the case, I'd take it to them, they so far have been the best Isuzu deal in PA/NJ/NY area I've found. They'll probably have a fix for you.

-mike

keepontroopin · January 2002

Do you have a bug guard on the front of your Trooper? I didn't when I bought mine but added one soon after. That's when i started to experience the same noise. It was super annoying and drove me nuts. I put up with it for three weeks and then said enough. I deternmined the slapping noise as I will describe it was coming from the plastic molding running up the window pillars on the windshield. Here is how you can test to see if it is the same for you. Run two pieces of duct tape along the plastic on the pillars with one side being attached to the plastic molding and the other side being attached to the windshield. Now go out and drive the car to reproduce the noise. If you still hear the noise.....I can't help. But if the noise is gone then remove the duct tape and look at the old posts on this issue. If you can't find the old posts let me know and I will re-write the solution.

Hopefully you are hearing what I was and I can help you. Do you also hear the sound when you hit a BAD bump????

justdrivin · January 2002

Spirolli,
I had the same type noise on my 2000S Trooper. One suggestion on this board is to use screen-door spline to fill the gap between the A-post and the windshield, all the way up the post. I just filled that gap with some clear silicone sealant and the noise is gone. Apparently the wind hits that gap and makes that terrible sound....grinding, scraping??
Try one of the above fixes.

sbcooke · January 2002

My 99 trooper had a tapping between 10 and 35 MPH when cold, below 40 degrees when it was new. It went away after the first year. I can't remember specifically what fixed it, but I think it was a can of dry gas. I think there was condensation that caused some noise when cold? Just a theory, but I am pretty sure I added a can and it went away?

spirolli · February 2002

Thanks so much for your input.

keepontrooping- i will try that asap with the duct tape. i tried to seach on and look bad at the old posts but couldn't find the fix. if it's not too much trouble and when you have the time, can you please let me know what you did to correct the problem. you seem to hit the nail right on the head. i didn't have the noise when i first purchased the truck. it all started after i installed the bug guard. i know it's not the bug guard actually making the noise since i have used felt all around to make sure it won't make a sound. it must be the way the bug guard changes the air flow that causes the molding to make the tapping sound. God... i hope that's what it is.

justdrivin- where did you find the information on how to fix the problem.? the silicon sounds like an easy fix. like i told keepontroopin, i can't wait to try the duct tape thing to see if it works. i am almost positive it will.

i'll keep you both posted.

thanks,
steve

dielectric7bb · February 2002

I had never heard of this problem on Troopers' until a few months ago. I have a 95 Trooper w/ 80+k on it. It runs great and I don't have any tapings or any other noises to speak of (actually I dont have any problems with it what so ever

. My question is what model year did this start showing up in (or has it been in every 2nd gen model), and why?

justdrivin · February 2002

Spirolli,
The info on fixing the problem is on this site, either under this thread or the Trooper one. I ended up taking the easy route; run a bead of clear silicone sealant up the gap between the windshield and molding, along each A-post. Smooth the bead out with your finger so it just fills the gap. I was skeptical, but it definitely stopped the noise.

keepontroopin · February 2002

Spirolli

I believe in a past post you said you already ran the silicon half way up the pillars. If so you have two choices.

1.) Fill the remaining part of the pillar with silicon like just drivin said, or

2.) remove whatever silicon you have run along the pillar and go to a hardware store and by some screen spline. Buy a black color if you can. Cut the spline to the length of the pillar and stuff it under the plastic molding piece. Thats it. I came up with this instead of using the silicon because I didn't know what the silicon would do to the molding piece when the widshield needed replaced (see I currently have three stars in the windshield and replacing it is ineveitable).

If you need anything else let us know. Also let us know if we tackled your problem.

spirolli · February 2002

justdrivin, keepontroopin, paisan,

I wanted thank you all for your help with that annoying sound in the front Windshield. I can't believe that all it took was a bead of silicon run up both A-pillar's to take care of the noise that's been haunting me for the past 16 months. Amazing !

I bought standard clear silicon from Home Depot and followed your directions this past Saturday. I let it fully dry overnight. I had to drive about 100 miles to attend a super bowl party in perfect conditions to make the windshield rattle. (Windy, Below 40 Degree's all highway driving) You know what....? NOT A SOUND.....! It completely corrected the problem......!

The only thing that leaves me a little pissed off is the fact that I took the truck back to the dealer 3 times for this exact problem and they couldn't fix it (let alone find it). I find it somewhat unsettling that we as consumers have to be more educated then the so called expert mechanics at the dealership and we have to rely on each other to solve problems that the mechanics should already have the fixes for. Or at least know enough to check "user groups" like this one. Not that any other car mfg is different. Mercedes is the same exact way, if not worse.

Once again, thanks so much for all of your help.

Steve

paisan · February 2002

Actually has reps on edmunds, so they are a bit different.

-mike

cwmoser · February 2002

Is $595 a reasonable cost for 30,000 mile service on a 1999 Isuzu Trooper?

paisan · February 2002

Seems a big steep. IIRC it's lots of checking, and the tranny and t-case and diffy's. My guess would be more like $200-$300 max

-mike

bluedevils · February 2002

I would take a close look at what is included in Isuzu's and your dealer's definition of a "30k service." Much of it is fluff, as paisan said.

Focus on the specific items that represent smart routine maintenance and get a price quote for those specific services. Your total bill will be WAY less than $600, and you will not have neglected any important maintenance items, in my opinion.

Sorry, but I don't need to pay someone to "check" most of these unimportant things, considering that:
a) it probably doesn't need checking at such a low mileage
b) the dealer/shop may not actually be checking it
c) even if the dealer/shop does check it, it's not specified in any documentation (important more for resale value purposes - i.e., "look at this-- I've maintained my truck well" than for warranty enforcement purposes)
d) I can probably check some of the items myself

sbcooke · February 2002

My 15K cost $274, and they replaced all the fluids (differential, trans, oil, etc.) There isn't much more in the 30K than 15K. If you really want it done, look in the back of the owners manual, it lists exactly what is in the 30K service. You might be able to have another shop (non-dealership) do it for much less.

cwmoser · February 2002

Might be more involved with the 15k as compared to the 30k service. I had the 15k service done on 04April2001 for $212.19. The same dealer is asking $595 for the 30k service.

teacherjim · February 2002

I was at my dealer getting some minor stuff done and noticed that he had a 2001 Trooper LS for sale in the used car department. I couldn't believe it, the truck was mint with only 13,560 miles and they were asking 18,800 for it. My salesman friend said it was a trade in! They must have allowed only about $15000 for it. I knew Troopers had poor resale value, but a $32,000 list truck worth less than $18,000 in a year.
Boy I hope my 2001 LS doesn't get in a wreck and get totaled, cause I owe more than $18,000
on it. I like my Trooper but hate to see it worth so little to soon. I sure hope it does last 10 years and I get 150,000-200,000 miles out of it.

calf1 · February 2002

Just put on Michelin LTX tires on my 99 trooper with 45k. I had some light noise from the rear tire area before, almost sounds like light whistling noise when car starts to move and and up until about 10 mph and then this noise can't be heard anymore because road noise is too loud, this is more apparent on cold days. Applying the brakes or put it neutral doesn't make any difference. My thought was old tire noise from uneven wear. But the noise is still there even with new tire. Anyone experienced anything similar ? thanks in advance

paisan · February 2002

calf1, sound like your parking brake may need adjustment. On the troopers, the disc brakes you us when hitting the brake pedal is a separate system from the parking brake system. The parking brake has separate pads in the rear. So you may have a sticking pad on the parking brake system which hitting the pedal wouldn't change that at all. That is where I'd start looking for a problem.

-mike

sdc2 · February 2002

What, did you expect it to be worth more than you paid for it? When you can get a new one for $7,000 less than sticker, you aren't going to get resale ABOVE that!

All new vehicles drop very quickly in value the first two years. It is not uncommon for someone to be "upside down" on their balance owed vs. resale early in the loan period.

paisan · February 2002

Although I've found that the value that insurance companies put on a vehicle is usually far higher than you would think. My buddy had a 1.5year old subaru impreza 2.5RS that he totalled. He figured he's be upside down on the loan, turned out he actually made about $1500 on the deal due to the low initial cost of the car. Isuzus have always depreciated faster than other cars, which is why they are horrible to lease. Keep it for 100K+ miles and it will more than pay for itself in lack of repair bills and/or headaches.

-mike

amigo_john · February 2002

Has anyone done the fluid change for the rear? I am going to do it on my Amigo but haven't spent the $95 for the manual so I'm not sure as what fluid to use (80w/90?) and if I have to take off the back cover and if I do what are the torque specs for the cover bolts when putting it back on.

Also, has anyone done the power steering fluid change? If so, what does it involve?

boxtrooper · February 2002

The oil specs are listed in the little owner's manual in the glovebox.
Power Steering fluid change is a pain since there is no drain a hose has to come off. It is worth doing so your steering box will last the life of the vehicle.

breakor · February 2002

The rear diff should have one upper fill plug and one lower drain plug. You might try loosening the top plug first just in case it is stuck/stripped. Otherwise you could end up draining and not being able to refill. Try to get a pump that fits on the bottles of gear oil that you buy. You might as well buy a decent one as you can use it for the front diff, and maybe your tranny and transfer case.

FWIW I take out 1/2 pint or so of used, and replace with new, ATF from the power steering reservoir every oil change. On the Trooper this isn't real easy but a syringe and fine tubing works and only takes a couple of minutes. Granted this is not a substitute for a real fluid change. But it cannot hurt, forces me to do a good fluid check and no doubt helps prolong the fluid some.

calf1 · February 2002

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your advice, today I tried pulling the parking brake lever but did not reduce the noise, any other ideas ? It really sounds like rubber rubbing on something when wheel first starts to move and become a light whistle sound when speed picks up a bit up to 10 mph. After having someone drives it while I listen from outside of the car, the noise seems more obvious on the driver side. I will try it on dirt road next, it noise is still there, probably isn't the tire ?
thanks in advance

thanks in advance

cwmoser · February 2002

I took my 1999 Trooper to the dealer for the 30k service. I had 35k miles on it.

The total cost was $568.44. $432 of this cost was 6 hours of tech at $72/hour. If anyone has the skills and tools, you can save a lot of money. Probably at the 60k interval when it is out of warranty I will take it to a quick lube for a complete fluid change.

The 30k service included a long list of checks but the most important was the fluid changes. Other than "checks", this is what was done at my 30k service:

- change oil and filter
- change transmission fluid
- change steering fluid
- change brake fluid
- change coolant
- rotate tires
- adjust brake pedal play
- Lube accelerator linkage
- Lube body and chassis
- Lube front propeller shaft
- change front and rear axle oil
- replace air filter
- repack front wheel bearings

One other note on the service printout was that:
Timing belt replacement intervals:
- pre 1997 models = 60,000 miles
- 1998 = 75,000 miles
- 1999 and later = 75,000 miles (severe conditions), otherwise 100,000 miles

keepontroopin · February 2002

Just a curiousity.....did you get new tires recently?

breakor · February 2002

FWIW I would secure the vehicle and jack the rear in the air. I would then by hand turn the tires and listen for the noise. I think you could precisely locate it that way. Also check to see if the noise is more pronounced when spinning forwards vs. backwards.

pinoy99 · February 2002

Amigo has DANA44 thus no drain plug. You have to remove the cover to drain all but I guess you can also suck out most of the gear oil using a pump.

Check out 4x4wire's write-up http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/reviews/no-slip/installation/? that deals with that type of diff.

amigo_john · February 2002

Interesting article on the DANA 44. Thanks for all the info. I guess I'll pull it completely off to get all of the fluid out. Does anyone know the torque specs when putting the cover back on? I'm gonna have to pry open the wallet and get the service manual ;-)

armtdm · February 2002

As you will probably need a fluid pump to put the gear oil in once drained I would simply purchase one ($5-$25) and syphon/pump out the old gear oil and pump the new in rather then loosen the bolts and risk a leak.

I do this and it seems to work fine. As my Rodeo also does not have a auto tranny dipstick (drain and fill plug underneath the pan) I use the pump for the tranny fluid as well.

calf1 · February 2002

Keepontropin,
I just got new Michelin LTX tires put on. The noise was there before so I though it might be tire noise from uneven wear of the old tires, but now new tire does the same thing. I tried driving through different road surface and same result, probably not the tires now. When speeds pick up above 5-10 mph, the noise is gone or I just can't hear it anymore because this noise is very light. It starts like rubbing noise when wheel starts to turn and become light whistling noise. I will jack up the rear and turn wheel by hand next as breakor suggested. thanks guys.

calf1 · February 2002

It turned out the noise was from the brake dust collected from the parking brake lininging, after cleaning the inside of the rotor (drum part), the noise was gone. thanks to everyone for the help.
I also repacked the front wheel bearings for the first time at 45k miles, they were a little bit loose, 30K mile specified by Isuzu is the right interval.

bluedevils · February 2002

Most of the folks here are car-savvy enough to know that already, but I just posted this in a different vehicle forum so I figured I'd copy it here too.

I used synthetic blend (Valvoline Durablend or Castrol Syntec Blend) for a couple years until I started following the oil-related topics in the Maintenance & Repair area of Edmund's Town Hall.

The consensus is basically this: synthetic blend contains a very small percentage of synthetic oil, and the price difference vs. regular oil basically makes the blends a ripoff.

Blending your own, by combining 1 quart full synthetic with 3 or 4 quarts of regular petroleum-based oil, is a much better option. It's cheaper and probably is a better protectant than the off-the-shelf blends. Most folks recommend sticking with the same brand of synthetic and petrol-based oil, when mixing yourself. E.g. if you want to use Mobil 1 synthetic, don't mix it with anything other than Mobil's petrol-based oil. This may be an unnecessary precaution, but the idea is that the additive packages in different brands of oil have a greater chance of being incompatible or detrimental to one another than do the additives found in same-brand synthetic and petrol-based oils.

Personally, I am using Mobil 1 5W30 in our 1998 Trooper and our 1995 Ford Contour SE.

I hope this helps.

radman6 · February 2002

Here's an interesting link on auto safety and recalls for defects. It's pretty critical of Isuzu products, but if you look up a few other vehicles you'll see that they pretty well bash everyone's products - even the big brand names with noted exceptional reliablility.

Might be useful to see if problems you may be having (especially on older Isuzu's) are recognized defects. There's also some information on recalls, "secret warranties" and other items of interest.

http://www.autosafety.org/autodefects.html

dielectric7bb · February 2002

The site seemed to have some info, but I wonder if it's even accurate. It didn't even have (or I couldn't find) Ford exploder's info, while I could find the Dodge durango's. I wasn't sure if the info they had were one time reports or if they were widely known issues (I didn't recognize too many of them as widely known...1998 Trooper driveshaft separates from transfer case???).

sbcooke · February 2002

I think that was a recall because of improper torque settings on a bolt? There was a recall done, and I don't think it had any widespread impact. Alldata.com has a list of recalls.

sbcooke · February 2002

How much condensation/water coming out of the tailpipe on a cold day is normal? This morning I noticed water dripping out while my truck was warming up. What does too much indicate? Fuel mixture is off?

dielectric7bb · February 2002

This is the basics. I don't feel like computing anything today, maybe tomorrow.

Gasoline = Carbon and Hydrogen basically
Air = Nitrogen and Oxygen basically

Good Combustion process for an engine = H2O + CO2

Once combusted, the H2O may not be hot enough to keep its evaporated state. It may be cooling through the exhaust pipes and cat and whatnot.

The amount of water shouldn't be too much, but varies primarily with engine size and ambient air conditions. Do you want to measure the amount of water for us and we'll let ya know? Also, how long does it take to stop dripping water? If it's like a gallon I'd say there's a problem

Too much water could indicate the fuel mix is off. Too much either way could decrease the temp of the exhaust, but I wouldn't think by all that much (like I said, I don't want to do any calculations today, maybe tomorrow).

sbcooke · February 2002

OK, well it probably is that the exhaust was cold and causing the condensation upon warm-up. It was't too much, less than a 1/4 cup...not that I measured. My gas mileage has been low, so the mixture being off is in the back of my mind, and then with condensation possible rust in the exhaust as a by product concerns me. Your description, and the cold weather makes sense. Tomorrow, maybe I will measure, or maybe I won't worry about it. Thanks for the reply.

beezr · February 2002

I'm new to Town Hall...couldn't find any discussion groups for Honda Passport, so here I am in Rodeo world...I have a 1994 Passport, with 70K miles on it. On Saturday I noticed a large leak, and took it to a local Honda dealer. Well, after putting it up on the lift, they gave me a long list of problems...Thermostat hose leaking...power steering pump leaking...valve cover gaskets leaking....many worn belts. The estimate to repair all these problems came to about $1800. I let them repair the first two problems, which only cost $300.

So the truck is still leaking lots of oil because of the valve cover gaskets, but the service advisor advised I could wait on that repair, as long as I kept checking and filling the oil.

Got the truck back Monday evening...now the Check Engine light is coming on, and staying lit, mainly when I use the air conditioner. My owners manual says this light signifies something wrong with the truck's emission control system.

So does this have anything to do with what they repaired? Or is this an entirely new problem?

I was planning on having the rest of the problems repaired in 2 weeks. Now I'm wondering if I'm facing an even higher repair bill. Should I take the car somewhere else for repairs? Is it even safe to drive with the Check Engine light on?

Sorry for the long post...HELP!!

sdc2 · March 2002

Exhaust condensation is normal. It will occur in colder weather from initial start-up until the exhaust system warms up enough that the water vapor in the exhaust can't condense out - usually only a couple of minutes.

That is the main reason why short trips are murder on exhaust systems, because the condensation just sits in there without getting evaporated. That plus road salt means a short exhaust system life.

breakor · March 2002

The "new" problem doesn't sound like it would have been caused by the work done. Then again you never know what they could have bumped/left unconnected/broke. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to run it back by the dealer and ask them to check for a problem they caused. However, I doubt they would admit to anything and instead tell you it is your fault for not having all the "problems" fixed.

Usually the more serious problems are noted by flashing lights. Your solid light, while not a good sign, is probably not that big a deal. I would however lay off the problem causing a/c until you get it sorted out.

The work you noted should be relatively easy for any qualified shop and much less than the figure you quoted.

Bottom line, I would go to another shop now. Ask them what they think needs to be done and while you are there if they think the dealer broke anything. Hopefully, they won't find any new big problems and maybe a loose connector causing the check light. If that is the case, and they agree on the belts or other relatively cheap repairs, I would have them to do that ASAP. If you still have the check engine light something else besides leaking valve covers is your problem.

Good luck and welcome.

beer47 · March 2002

After having a good experience getting oil filters and air filters from St.Charles I just ordered front/rear brake pads. 15% discount and free shipping. What's not to like. I order and they put it on the back porch. Somebody pinch me. If my wife were this easy I'd be crusin'!

bluedevils · March 2002

beer47, what's the cost of the Isuzu brake pads? Our 98 Trooper is nearing 62k miles and at some point we'll probably need to replace the pads, even though the brakes are performing great as of now.

beer47 · March 2002

They were about $100-105 with the internet discont of 15%. Also, free shipping! I do not quite need them yet but when I'm ready I'll have'em.

cknott · March 2002

Folks,

I changed the transmission oil and filter this weekend. My Trooper now has 45k. This was the first transmission oil and filter change that I have made. While the transmission fluid was still red, it was substantially darker than the new fluid that went back in(Havoline Dexron III). While I have towed between 6,000-7,000 lbs with the Trooper (not recommended, only two-2 hour trips) , I would suggest changing the fluid and filter by 30k. Of course, the inside of the transmission pan was very clean with only a small amount of residue on the magnet in the bottom of the pan.

I also installed an engine oil cooler and a transmission oil cooler. I made brackets to attach the coolers to the Trooper. The coolers are positioned on the trooper behind the vent area below the bumper (in between the factory fog light locations). I have had bad experiences in the past attaching coolers directly to the radiator using the plastic connectors that the manufacturers typically provide you with in their kits.

I routed the transmission plumbing such that the fluid comes from the transmission to the cooler then back to the factory cooler/warmer in the radiator and then back to the transmission. I took this approach so that the fluid would drop in temperature as much as the cooler would provide, but the radiator cooler(factory cooling) would pull the temperature of the fluid back up to operating temperature if the outside air temperature was cold enough to pull the transmission fluid below ideal operating temperature.

So far no leaks, and everything appears to be working great.

I also used a Puralator micro filtration oil filter (PL24458). I will be looking at the clarity of the oil at regular intervals over the next few thousand miles to see what impact this filter and the engine oil cooler will have on the color of the oil (Havoline 10W-30).

Isuzu Owners Maintenance and Repair

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