Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I don't know of a "correct" or neat way. I just disconnect the hose from the resevoir and allow it to spill into a container. Once it's empty I reconnect the hose and refill. If you want to get a thorough draining, someone could turn over the engine for you and turn the steering wheel, all the fluid will definately run out.
It will be messy.
As to the plugs, I think they are supposed to last 100k miles. I suspect they will do that but potentially they could sort of fuse in there if left untouched that long. Therefore I thinking somewhere in the 60-75kmi./4-5yr. range is probably a good time to replace.
On other vehicles I have replaced the water pump at the same time as the timing belt. In hindsight sometimes I think this was a good move. Other times I think it was overkill. I guess if I brokedown without the change I would have a firmer take. Also, changing the idler pulley is probably a good idea.
I have a large syringe that I use to suck out some power steering fluid every oil change. Rather than having a needle on the end I have some very fine tubing. I find that I can just barely snake around the outside of the "basket" and get to the bottom of the reservoir.
Another suggestion, especially if you have hard water, is to use purified water when mixing your new coolant.
Maybe that inner basket (or just the screen part?) does pop out. However I couldn't get mine to budge, at least with the force I was willing to apply as I was afraid the plastic would break.
I tried unsuccessfully to get the middle "basket" to pop out of there. Actually, by turning/twisting it and then jockeying it a bit, I was able to pull it up about 1/4" but it didn't want to come all the way out. Like you, I was scared about breaking it so I gave up.
If you find a source you might try to get several sizes. I find they come in very handy for sucking out fluids as well as precisely putting oil in hard to reach places.
I am trying to act unbiased when I say that your vechicle is unlike any that I have ever heard of, even a new model year GM vehicle (ie. Chevy Trailblazer). If your vehicle does not qualify for Lemon law status, it should.
I have owned 16 vehicles over the past 14 years. They included Volkswagon, Chevrolet, Toyota, Honda, Dodge, Jeep, International Scout, Isuzu, and Mazda. The Chevrolet, Honda, Isuzu and Dodge were purchased new. All others were purchased used. I kept some vehicles until they had over 160k. Considering all of these vehicles, I have never encountered the type of problems that you have encountered with your Trooper. I apologize for your problems, however, I too believe that you have a possible "flood" vehicle or what I consider to be a "defective dealer".
In regard to brakes, I currently own a 1999 Isuzu Trooper with the Automatic. My vehicle has over 49k. The rotors feel solid, no warping, and the pads have over 50% of their material remaining. I have towed around 7,000 lbs twice (not recommended) and tow around 1,500 lbs once/month. Otherwise, my wife drives the vehicle everyday to work/errands.
-mike
In response to those of you who have put larger tires on your Troop....I feel your pain. I have Buckshot Mudders 245/75 on mine and the gas consumption is not pretty (18 hwy before 15 after). Later...'99 Troop Lux 37,800 miles.
-mike
If you do the tranny fluid change make sure you have new plug gaskets as they are prone to leaking and have a specialized design that you have to get at a dealer.
I just took a closer look at the owners manual, and now I'm really confused. Maybe what I changed was the TOD system fluid, not the transfer case?
Until today, I thought the answer was TOD only, no transfer case. Based on the past few posts and what I remember about the fluids I've changed on the truck in the last 3 years, I think the answer is the truck has BOTH.
I'm scouring my owners manual and it's very confusing/vague. It never gives me clear info on if the truck has a transfer case, TOD, or both. It's also not clear on the fluid capacities for each item. It shows "Transfer" (in the Auto Trans table) 1.5 qts, and "Transfer with TOD" (what is this - the TOD system?) 2.0 qts. A photocopied page from the factory workshop manual confirms these capacities.
Problem is, I've drained 1.75-2.0 quarts out of the TOD reservoir once and about 1.5 the other time (done this procedure twice in 3 years) and exactly 2 quarts out of the other thing that seems to be the transfer case (changed a year ago and again tonight).
Now I see this in my owners manual: the transfer case uses regular engine oil (40 weight or 5W30, depending on where you live)! But the thing that I thought was the transfer case has "use only ATF II or III" stamped on it?! Is this actually the auto trans and not the transfer case?
What's going on?
Does this sound like the transfer case? I removed a heavy skid plate, held on by four 14mm bolts. As carriere explained earlier, the reservoir drain and fill plugs say 'Use only ATF II or III,' are removed with the end of a 3/8" ratchet (no socket attached), and the big silver funny-shaped unit has a big Borg-Warner sticker on it.
The sticker should have been a clue that this was not the transmission; I know the A/T is a GM unit.
Does this sound like the TOD system? The reservoir is further toward the front of the vehicle than the transfer case. It's more conventional-looking (rectangular and flat on the bottom side). My maintenance records indicate the drain & fill plugs were removed with a 19mm socket.
Can someone describe where the A/T reservoir is? Obviously, I have no idea, since I thought I'd drained the A/T fluid twice when I really had drained the transfer case.
* Checked level via fill plug with engine idling. No fluid drained out but there was a little when I stuck my finger in the hole. This says to me that level is a little low?
* Drained just about exactly 2 quarts.
* During fill, fluid started to slowly leak back out after 1-29/32 quarts (3 fl. oz. shy of 2 full quarts).
This seems weird. Why would I not be able to put in 2 quarts after draining 2 quarts? If the engine was warmer when I was filling, would this somehow cause the level to read higher?
I'm concerned that I did not put enough fluid back in, and I'm worried that the slightly strange behavior (engine revs sometimes but truck doesn't move right away, as if the trans isn't engaging right away) is caused by a too-low fluid level (assuming this is the A/T). Should I try to add more fluid? When-- with engine cold? Should I try to stick more fluid in there, even if it's trickling out? That could get messy.
TOD trucks have:
1) AT trans
2) TOD unit
3) Transfer case
When you drain the AT you will only get a few quarts out, even if you drop the pan you will not get anywhere near 9 quarts out of the Tranny. Most of it is stuck up in the torque converter and won't drain out. My salesman who also is a good friend and who used to be a mechanic said that basically if you drain out as much as possible by dropping the pan and do that ever 20K you'll be fine especially on the AT in the troopers.
-mike
-mike
If you have a manual transmission you have a traditional (i.e. takes oil) transfer case.
If you have an AT you have a Borg Warner TOD unit that also functions as a transfer case and it takes ATF. I know the owners manual is very confusing as it makes it sound like ALL vehicles have a transfer case that takes oil. That is not the case. Again the TOD equipped vehicles all have AT's and they all have TOD units that take ATF and function as the transfer case.
In my 1999 AT the Borg Warner drain and fill plugs are facing vertical. IIRC you have to remove a skid plate to easily get at them. They take a 1/2" wrench end, no socket.
"TOD trucks have:
1) AT trans
2) TOD unit
3) Transfer case"
Are you saying you think there's a separate drain plug for each of these 3 items? I need to go under the truck - AGAIN - and take another look. From what I remember, I see only the TOD drain/fill plugs and a second thing with a drain and a fill plug.
Is it possible that the A/T and transfer case share the same reservoir or something? I.e., there's only 1 set of drain/fill plugs for these items, not 2 separate sets?
I really need to spring for the workshop manual.
-mike
The AT has 2 downwards facing plugs that take something like a 22mm socket. The higher/outer plug is the fill plug and the lower the drain.
To do a quasi-flush you could drain through the lower drain plug. All auto parts stores carry fluid transfer pumps that you can use to pump new fluid back in through the upper plug. They should cost under $10 and screw right in to the top of a gallon jug of ATF, or gear oil for that matter. I think I got mine at Harbor Freight for under $5. Using this method you will probably get out 1/3rd to 1/2 of the old ATF.
To get out all the old fluid you can go to a Iffy Lube and have them use their machines. The problem being that they seem to have trouble properly refilling the Trooper trannys. They just don't set the level right.
You can also use the tranny itself to pump out ALL the old fluid by dissconnecting the return line so the old fluid can come out. Of course this is not the simplest procedure as you have to keep from running the system dry during the drain/refill procedure.
As to the plugs, if you look carefully at the drain gasket they have a weird rubber insert. I have read that these can easily tear and cause leaks. I noted that when I removed mine they were rather buggered up and I was glad I had new ones on hand for the reinstall.
I hope this helps but remember it is only my attempt at explaining my limited understanding and I am by no means a real mechanic.
-mike
Bluedevils, I must admit to not reading your entire post, but if not covered I want to make sure you understand that you will NOT get 9 quarts out of the AT on a simple drain/fill. Much of the fluid is held in the torque converter and will not drain out. I have heard you will only get 3 or so quarts out.
So I can't tell you which unit you drained, but you can't assume it isn't the tranny just because you only got 2 or 3 quarts out.
While you were refilling fluid continued draining down from the torque converter (or if you had the engine running you didn't go through all the gears). This made it seem like you were full again when you were not. Like Armtdm noted above, drive it around awhile before doing the final level fill/check on a running engine. Good luck and be safe (vehicle in park, secured from rolling, the ATF warm not scalding hot, eye protection, etc.).
There is nothing in my manual that says capacity is about a pint. There are a few things that say 1.5 qts or 2.0 qts, or 0.13 qts. breakor, perhaps you were talking about this SOTF system when you said the following:
"There is a shift on the fly reservoir that all Troopers (both manual and auto trannys) have. It is located on the driver's side of the front axle and again IIRC it takes something like a pint of gear oil. There is no lower drain plug just an upper one that you siphon the old fluid out of."
I've not noticed this on my Trooper. That doesn't mean it's not there, but I think this is only for the SOTF Troopers, not the TOD ones.
-mike
TOD was optional (part of the Performance Package), not standard, on auto trans Troopers. In '99 this changed, and TOD was standard equipment on all auto trans Troopers.
So in '98, you could have a:
1. manual trans Trooper with Shift-on-the-fly 4WD (SOTF).
2. auto trans Trooper with SOTF - this was the only year you could get this, as far as I know.
3. auto trans Trooper with TOD (Performance Package or Luxury Package models).
Our 98 Trooper is a #3.
What I'm wondering is if maybe Isuzu did things differently in the '98 model year re: TOD/AT/Transfer case.
1. TOD. Takes 1.5-2 qts. Flat rectangular bottom, 19mm drain/fill bolts, no gaskets. Takes ATF II or III (stamped on the reservoir, I think). I've changed this 3 times since buying the truck. I don't remember if it's protected by a skid plate; need to check my maintenance log at home. Located somewhere between the front wheels.
2. Transfer case. Takes 1.5-2 qts. Bigger. Silver. Funny shaped. Drain/fill bolts remove with a 3/8" (is it 1/2") drive ratchet (no socket). No gaskets. Has a big "Borg Warner" sticker on it. Takes ATF II or III (stamped on the reservoir). Protected by a large, heavy skid plate which is held on by four 14mm bolts. Sits further toward the back of vehicle than the TOD. Near the outside of vehicle on passenger side. I've drained this twice, including once last night.
3. Auto trans. I have not yet identified where the reservoir is under the truck so I'm going on what others have said recently. Drain/fill plug are 22mm. Has gaskets; wise to buy extras when draining because they damage easily. Location: ?.
4. I don't know squat about this hidden SOTF reservoir. Not sure on which vehicles it exists. May contain 0.13 qts, may contain more. Located around the front axle?
sdc2 said: "A Trooper has either a standard transfer case or a TOD transfer case, never both. The TOD unit IS the transfer case, just a rather unique one."
I will say that I used to agree with breakor and sdc2. I thought the TOD and transfer case were a single unit on the TOD Troopers. But the things people have posted here and what I've seen under the truck while working on it lead me to believe otherwise.
SOTF
TOD-Transfer Case
AT
The TOD unit is under a skid plate on passenger side.
The SOTF I am not sure of.
AT is dead center tucked up high above the frame rails.
-mike
To recap I do not have a 98 but on a 99 AT there is a TOD unit, an AT and a SOTF and NO ADDITIONAL transfer case. My AT drain plugs have washers that have rubber gasket inserts.
-mike
Perhaps when I thought I was changing the TOD (19mm bolts) and was draining 1.5-2 quarts, that is actually the auto trans.
As for the thing whose plugs are removed with a 3/8 or 1/2" drive ratchet (no socket), that must be the TOD/transfer case unit-- whatever you want to call it.
I am going under my truck this weekend to see what I can see!
It seems that nobody is agreeing with my prior theory - that there are 4 drain/fill plugs-- 1 set each for SOTF (the small-capacity thing near driver's-side CV), auto trans (22mm bolt), transfer case (3/8" drive ratchet), and TOD (19mm bolt). I was probably wrong about it.
The likely explanation is this: I thought the A/T was the TOD thing. Because of that, I thought the A/T reservoir was down there somewhere but I just hadn't seen it or changed the fluid yet. I think that was all wrong, but I still don't feel sure about anything.
Still, I am more careful and although I have made mistakes (see posts about 'ATF in rear differential' fiasco a few months back), I still feel better working on my vehicle than taking it somewhere who a) knows nothing about such an uncommon vehicle, probably because b) they have never worked on a similar vehicle; and c) they don't give 2 sh*&s about my truck.
Reasons why I work on my own vehicle:
1) I am interested in learning more about it, to increase my knowledge and decrease my chance of being ripped off when it needs work I can't/won't do myself.
2) I trust myself to do a better job than most shops.
3) It saves money vs. paying someone else to do it.
$169 for a full transmission service is just ridiculous, IMHO. Many shops will do the flush with a fancy exchange machine for $50-70. I am in the market for A/T service, but I would never pay $169. duktrooper, what did they do - the fancy-machine fluid exchange thing? Change the filter (is it just a screen that doesn't need replacement?)? "Drop the pan?" (I don't even know what this means, or why it's done). What else?
I'd like to think the dealer knows more about the vehicle than the average independent shop, but my confidence in dealer service is still fairly low.