Edmund's shows $32,500 trade in with no options. I would say it's a pretty good deal.
One of the auto magazines recently compared a 'vette, an M3 and a Boxter S. I just glanced at the article, but the summary at the end went something like "You would need a pretty accurate stopwatch to tell the difference between the Corvette and the M3, but the M3 gives you a back seat and a more comfortable ride for day to day commuting."
Personally, I would take an M3 over a Corvette in most cases.
Thanks Murray,I have never driven a beemer and he took the car off the road so I only went up and down his driveway. seems like the car is all there. I barely drive my corvette for different reasons as no storage and the such. I figure if I am getting a great deal on a low mileage performance car and a convertible to boot, it will be more practical and I can even take the bride shopping with it, cause it has a trunk.I just don't want to miss the performance of my corvette six months down the line. Jim
"have more grip than they had when they were new (less tread you know)." True tread groves do lower friction [area exposed to road] but 99% of tires continue the heat cycle vulcanization and get progressively harder each summer by the end of a year they are done and wearing down the tread to a slick won't help if the rubber is hard [check new and used tires with a durometer.]
As for ABS braking systems being calibrated, what's up with that? ABS systems have sensors to determine if any individual tire is slipping and adjusts accordingly. End of story. """ The tire and its compound and how well said compound will grip a warm dry road has absolutely nothing to do with {when} the computer tells the ABS system to kick in. True but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STICKY TIRES WILL NOT SLIP so the ABS never comes on! The preprogrammed slip control ratio of the ABS is set at 0.15 to 0.30 to accomidate a road to tire friction coefficient of 0.25 [wet/snow] to something around 0.9 G for dry paved roads. The better the molecular binding betweeen the tire and the road the less [% of time] the ABS will work [no ABS action at all if tires are sticky enough to not slip. See the brakes can decelerate the car faster than average tires can handle [> 1.0 G].
ABS allows the use of less than stellar tires to get a reasonable safe stop but better tires will stop shorter without ABS. There is an ecu in ABS which is programmed for each individual car model and it's factory tires.
Why do you view everything with such jaundiced vision? You make it sound like any tire that is beyond 6 to 12 months old is worthless, when actual real world experience shows quite the opposite. As for tires being re-vulcanized each time the car is driven in the summer, maybe performance tires have that problem (I have not experienced that on several cars that I have had with said tires), however, All-Season tires use silica in the rubber compound and not ash like performance tires. The, reason for the silica is to keep the rubber flexible year in and year out, hot or cold, winter or summer.
As for ABS, you state “There is an ecu in ABS which is programmed for each individual car model and it’s factory tires.” Maybe some carmakers skimp on their product, however, you are quite naïve to assume that ALL cars are equipped with an ABS system that will only operate at its best with factory tires installed. Just for the sake of argument, let us take a look at the E46 BMW (3-Series), these cars are available with 4 different tire/wheel combinations of various tread compounds and widths. If one were to listen to you, one would come to the conclusion that BMW has 4 different ECUs, one for each tire/wheel setup. Not likely. In addition, BMW recommends that cars equipped with the Sport Package (which includes summer tires) switch to winter tires for cold weather driving. Are you then suggesting that each time a BMW owner changes his/her tires that they need to go to the dealership and have the ECU changed out/re-calibrated in an effort to make sure that the ABS system is operating properly?
Now, as far as your assertions that the better the tire the shorter the stopping distance, I know of no one who would argue that point. You also stated that better tires would stop shorter without ABS. You forgot to mention that most (if not all) cars would stop shorter without ABS regardless of what kind of tires were installed; this has been a fact of life since ABS was first introduced. However, while a car may stop shorter without ABS, it will not have control, given that the shorter stop we are talking about is with a full lock-up of the tires. To the best of my knowledge, I have never seen a test where a controlled stop without ABS beat a full pedal stop with ABS on the same car.
You both have some correct and incorrect statements there. Maximum vehicle braking is achieved at a tire slip value of about 20-30%. Maximum steering control is achieved at a slip value of 0%. To maximize vehicle control during emergency manouvering, ABS ecu's regulate braking pressure to allow about 15% slip, trading off some absolute stopping power for steerability.
Since static friction (tire rolling) is always a higher value than kinetic friction (tire sliding), the only time that locked wheels will result in shorter stopping distances is if the vehicle is on a loose surface (ever wonder why some 4X4's disable ABS when 4WD is selected?). In fact, the whole idea behind ABS is to maintain static friction between the tire tread and road surface, and kinetic friction between the brake pads and rotors. Switch those two around and you have locked wheels, longer stopping distances, and no steering control.
Kelsey Hayes manufactured most light truck rear ABS systems (Ford RABS, GM and Chrysler RWAL), required for effective rear braking with varying amounts and placement of payload. Their systems used a single speed sensor, transmission or differential mounted, for ecu wheel speed input. Since these systems have no other speed sensors to use for wheel deceleration rate comparison, they do in fact use a programmed algorithm calibrated for a theoretical maximum wheel decel rate for a given vehicle.
Understand I am speaking of RWD drive cars only as the other types are weird special cases!
Performance tires may have multi-ply stiff sidewalls and nylon caps and special edge reinforcements which allow the tire to steer and brake best at lower slip angles vs single ply sidewall squirmy M+S tires which require large slip angles. A performance tire may have 1.25 [u] at 9 degrees with 2mm tread vs the same tire 1.15 [u] at 15 degrees when new with an 8 mm tread......that's the problem the numbers you quote are for New mediocre tires as that is what manufacturers supply. The 90-96 Q45 without TCS uses the single diff sensor with a programmed lookup table calibrated to the OEM tires along with a viscous LSD differential....as do/did most LSD equipt cars. Since most cars are front wheel driven without LSD...about as far from performance as you can get the primary braking is in the front vs a more balanced [F/R dist].
Hi. I got my car (330ci manual) 3 days ago, and on the next day as I was driving slow through the parking structure I noticed the noise from the rear as I let out the clutch on 1st. From the other similar posts I gather that it is more of an annoyance than a mechanical problem that may grow into something bigger. Just so it saves me a trip to the dealer, is there any fix for it yet?
Love the car though. It's going to be a bear to get through the first 1200 miles
I have 32,000 miles on my E46 328i and the clunk (which is barely noticeable on my car) has not gotten worse over the years. To the best of my knowledge, most cars have some slop in the driveline, with FWD cars having the least, AWD cars having the most and RWD cars somewhere in the middle. FWIW, I have noticed a "clunk" in virtually every RWD car I have ever driven, given that I used to work for MBUSA, I have driven my share of high end RWD machinery, I would say a this is fairly normal.
My first post - please excuse me if this is the wrong board. Just got a 325i 1994 and the alarm system works inconsistently. The remote won't open the doors consistently after the battery was replaced and it won't set the alarm. The dashboard light for the alarm never goes on. Is it possible that there is a memory issue here since the former owner never set the alarm. Is there some type of reset button? I am reluctant to bring this to the dealer since I suspect they will charge more for the repair than installing an aftermarket unit. Please help. Jeff
I just bought a 92 325i (E-36)with 87K miles. the owner manual says to use 10W40 for Winter and 20W50 for Summer. Does anybody know why BMW recommend such a high viscosity oil? If someone says BMW is a high reving engine, I would say it is not any higher revving than Honda engines that use 5W20 or 5W30 oil.
What is the recommnded oil for E46 engines?
As far as the rear clunk goes on manual transmissions, I do not notice any at all on this 10 year old car.
Hi, I was hoping someone could help me out with a problem I'm having. First off I do not know much about cars. I own a '97 328iS with the sports package so it has the thin Z-rated tires.
Over time, apparently, from the sound I am hearing (a thumping that gets quicker the faster I go) and from what the dealer told me a few months ago, I have THREE bent rims! I have talked to people saying that this sounds impossible. But it is really getting noticable and I'm afraid my tires could be at risk.
I had the rims "fixed" for $100 per rim in the spring, and they had them weighted so now my car does not "shake" when I get into high speeds, but the thumping still seems to be there and is noticeable up to around 40mph.
BMW says they want $500 per rim (once again they can't seem to help me with a problem) and I would rather not take that route, but I don't know what other choices I have.
Has anyone experienced this and does anyone have any suggestions? I guess I may be steering directly into potholes or something because this is really frutstrating - I have a friend with an M3 that lives in the area and never experienced anything similar. Any help or information would be appreciated and could save me $2k!!! Thanks...
You may have heard of some 3 series owners complaining about their gas petals, including me. I guess a BMWNA rep. (Bill Stuart) has called some owners to report that BMW finally has a solution. It should be available in the Dec./Jan. time frame. I believe a service bulletin should follow soon. I got the info from the newsgroup http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bmw-sticky-pedal/message/161
Hello, I have had my moon roof cover broken twice( The interior cover gets out of track and broken pieces fall off). I think there might be a flaw in design. Does any one know how to fix the problem? It has failed twice after repair. Any one has had similar problem please advise. THX
Try Pacific BMW (1-800-909-Part) or go to their site.
Another is alloembmwparts.com
by jodar96 Nov 08, 2001 (05:49 am) I asked this question earlier. Where is the best price website to get brake pads, rotors, filters, regular maintenance items, and where is th best site to get used or new BMW parts like head lights, tail lights, interior panels.
I'm new to the board and am hoping one of the experts can answer a question.
I have a 2001 325i with slightly over 5,000 miles. I noticed when I checked the oil that I was down a little over a half quart. Having never owned a car that used exclusively synthetic oil or went 15,000 miles between changes, I wasn't sure if this was normal usage. The dealer told me this was completely normal, and would continue until the car was completely broken in. This could be as much as 17-18,000 miles. Does this sound normal and has anyone else had a similar experience ? Also, does anyone recommend having the oil changed more frequently, even though it is not covered by BMW.
I have a Sand leather interior and when I put on my seatbelt the webbing rubs across the headrest mount and wears off the sand color at the friction points. My dealer replaced the headrest mounts and the same thing happened again. My car was built 4/01. I saw a 7/01 build recently and the headrest mounts now have protective moulding to reduce the rubbing. I spoke to BMWNA and they won't authorize the upgrade because it requires a new mount AND headrest. Although they would continue to replace the old ones over and over with the old design (go figure). Anyway, if you have this problem, speak up to your dealer and BMWNA. If enough of us speak up they will authorize a TSB to fix this problem.
I'm sure I'll get flamed by some people here but I don't really give a damn...
Recently, I've been SERIOUSLY considering a new 2002 BMW 325Ci...I was going to fully do it up also (ESS Supercharger, Dinan Strut Tower Bars, H&R Coilovers, MVR Aerodynamics, MVR 19" wheels, Brembo brakes, etc., etc.) but after reading this thread, I think I'll pass...I'm really saddened by this as I really had my heart set on a nice Orient Blue with black interior sport packaged 325ci (only getting the sport package for the seats as everything else would have been thrown out and upgraded)
I've always heard that BMW servics sucks on various BMW and non-BMW forums. I'm coming from the Lexus camp so I'm used to be "taken care of" by the dealer. NEVER have they tried to take advantage of me (I always play "dumb" at dealership to see how badly they try to screw me...this is particularly fun to do at Mercedes dealerships...they must get some COMPLETELY ignorant people there...lotsa money, no mechanical sense...) It seems rather obvious that BMW service does suck from these posts. I have yet to read a full thread full of "good" experiences anywhere...
Also, the PROBLEMS you guys are having. It's just sick. I'ved owned Japanese cars all my life (Honda, Infiniti, and Lexus) and they have NEVER had a major problem. Only some very minor ones that the dealers took care of w/o question. And I'm HARD on my cars. I love driving canyons, I always fix them up (as I described above)...drive them about 30K miles/year, etc., etc...
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not "Japan Rules" kinda guy...there are some Japanese cars that I wouldn't buy (like Mitsubishi...except the Evo's...and Suburus...except the WRX) but seriously, just from this thread it seems that 3 series are rather problematic with known problems and few solution.
I was also considering a IS300 and C240 (I'm just looking for a nice little "daily driver project" car...I must admit, the C240 is the least desirable as it has the least amount of aftermarket products) but I guess my only real choice is the IS300 now...which I was trying to avoid because there are a LOT of them in my area...I guess I could wait for the Infiniti G35 to see what they have to offer...
It's too bad BMW doesn't fix these ongoing problems with dealership attitude/service/performance and mechanical problems (a GM tranny? They should have contracted Toyota instead!)...because I really love the styling of the BMW's but I'm NOT willing to deal with the problems...nor am I willing to roll the dice and hope I get one that's made in Germany and made on a good day in optimal conditions.
I know exactly what you are talking about. I have bought 3 BMWs over the past 10 years and still have two in the family. They were all bought new from the same dealership. I agree with your description of the attitude of the dealership For me it is always a toss-up between buying a great handling car that put a smile on your face and a reliable car with excellent service experience. Since I am considered a good long-time customer, the service department does treat me fine. However the service cost has always been exorbitant, and sometimes questionable in nature. I managed to find a mechanic to do work after the warranty period, but some problems still require trips to the dealers. Its reliability certainly can't compare with that of the Japanese cars which really can't touch BMW's handling experience either. So it is a personal decision one has to make. I have made mine and you obviously have made yours.
Although I know that most people just leave their cars "stock", I'm the type that LOVES to "fix up" his car. But not that cheezy ricer stuff...that not functional garbage (seat belt pads, rear wings on FWD cars that peter out at 120MPH... etc.)...
With a few aftermarket mods (less than $1000 worth in the case of a GS or IS), I can make ALMOST any car handle better than a stock 3 or 5 series Sport models. Sway bars, Strut Tower Bars, improved shock/spring or coilover setups, etc.
Don't get me wrong, compared to MOST cars, the BMWs are excellent handling cars. But I've driven dozens of full suspension modified cars and many, many Porsches. So to someone like me, even a M3 or M5 is just "pedestrian" in terms of handling...but I'll definitely agree that a GS, in stock form, is DEFINITELY geared toward a Luxury ride.
If BMW and Toyota got together (let Toyota handle the electronics, QC, ergonomics, and final engineering...let's face it, the Japanese have a leg up compared to the Germans in these cases!), THOSE would be some GREAT cars...fast, reliable, good looking, well handling, and priced reasonably. Win-Win IMO.
Much better than "Dailmer-Chrysler" (what the HELL was Mercedes thinking?)
If BMW and Toyota got together (let Toyota handle the electronics, QC, ergonomics, and final engineering...let's face it, the Japanese have a leg up compared to the Germans in these cases!), THOSE would be some GREAT cars...fast, reliable, good looking, well handling, and priced reasonably
According to the 2001 J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study, BMW beats several Japanese auto makers including Infiniti, Honda and, surprise surprise, Toyota. Kind of makes me wonder how you came up with your above statement.
You are correct that Lexus is on top, but BMW's certainly are not the lemons that you make them out to be!
Murray, I'm sure that if "Toyota" were to join up with BMW, they would put Lexus level quality control on it...you do know that Lexus and Toyota are the same company, right?
Here's the quote from the FIRST PARAGRAPH of that page...I think you kinda shot yourself in the foot here...
>Toyota Motor Corp. and its Lexus luxury division >dominated the 2001 J. D. Power and Associates >Initial Quality Study (IQS)
Secondly, don't just look which Position the manufactures are in the list, but look at the actual NUMBERS.
The spread between Lexus and BMW is whopping 34 points (#1 to #4). The spread between BMW and Toyota is only 2 points (#4 to #5). And you're comparing a PREMIUM brand (BMW) to a CONSUMER brand (Toyota)...but anyways, let's subtract the difference, Toyota/Lexus is still a whopping 32 points ahead of BMW...now look at the rest of the list...the spread between BMW and Chevy is only 28...that's #4 to #15 (as opposed to #1 to #4)...and before you accuse me of miscounting, I just took out the "ties"...so Saab/Toyota/Buick (@ 121 each) would be equal to 1 spot...as with Audi and Porsche (@ 140 each)...this actually works out better for your argument...don't say I never give you anything...
So my statement still stands...even stronger now. Thanks.
Hehehe, I'm surprised to see Jaguar (of all brands) to be up there! Did Ford finally get rid of the horrible electronic systems that Jag used to use? Too bad my local dealership gives out Ford Focuses as loaner cars...that's pretty sad...at least at Lexus, you get another Lexus (ES300/IS300/RX300)
And I'm not trying to make BMW's look like lemons. I WANTED to get a BMW but after hearing all the problems here with the 3 series (among other places of course), I have decided not to...at least with a Lexus, if I have a problem (which, as your own link suggests, will be A LOT less likely), I KNOW Lexus and Lexus Dealerships CARE. *THAT*, in itself is important. I don't think even *you* can say that BMW's customer service is at all acceptable...
...but trust me, I'm not all gung-ho on the IS300...I still love the looks of the 3-series but it takes more than just looks for me to dunk down $35K on a car that I need to be reliable above all else...looks/performance are secondary (but a close second)...and the let's face it, the IS300 isn't exactly miles behind in performance...looks are, of course, in the eye of the beholder and rather not get into that aspect of this discussion as it's purely just opinion.
I have yet to read a full thread full of "good" experiences anywhere...
The title of the board is "BMW 3-Series (E46) Problems (M&R Board)", not "BMW Good Experience and Happy Customer Board". This is a strange place to look for "good experiences".
I'ved owned Japanese cars all my life (Honda, Infiniti, and Lexus) and they have NEVER had a major problem
JD Powers shows that BMW beats two of the three Japanese brands you boast about. I've driven several cars over the past 20 and I can't say I've ever "had a major problem" with any car.
just from this thread it seems that 3 series are rather problematic with known problems and few solution
Again, this is a "Problems" board. If they weren't problems or had easy solutions, they wouldn't be posted here, would they?
With a few aftermarket mods (less than $1000 worth in the case of a GS or IS), I can make ALMOST any car handle better than a stock 3 or 5 series Sport models
It seems strange that manufacturers of "any car" don't offer these mods as an option since it would cost the manufacturer less than $1000 to do this in production. Of course you may be more knowledgeable than the engineers who design "any car", I can't tell from your posts.
If reliability is your main concern, why do you plan on making numerous modifications to a base model to improve performance? What quality standards (Six Sigma, QS 9000, etc.) will the shop doing the work follow? Do you have any statistics to show that the modifications will make the car more reliable? I'm certain that custom modifications will make the car less reliable than a stock model.
Looking at the numbers again as you suggest, Lexus is clearly ahead of the pack and a few "points" separate 2nd from 10th. May I conclude that, if these stats remain true in the future, you will never own another car besides Lexus? Buying an Acura, for example, would not satisfy your number one criteria (reliability) for car buying.
You seem to be the one flaming BMW with no real evidence to back up your claims. I suggest you buy your Lexus and enjoy it rather than seeking enjoyment by putting down another brand.
Just another chronic case of "BMW Envy". Notice how you never see Bimmer owners posting the "Mine's better." spiel in the Lexota topics- could it be because BMW drivers don't need to convince themselves that they bought a great car?
Div2 - Considering I own (meaining BOUGHT, not leased) a $56K Lexus, I'm pretty sure I could afford a little BMW 3-series...have you ever noticed that when people have nothing really to say that they just say that other people are envious and jealous? Why is that BMW zealots get so defensive when the Lexus nameplate is brought up?
Have you ever though that it could be that BMW's owners just don't want to admit that they bought a POS and are willing to look past the problems so they don't look dumb for making that purchasing decision?
That's not what I think personally, but let's face it, that statement is as valid as yours...
You've obviously NEVER read anything on bimmer.org...not only is it "mine is better than yours" discussion (in relation to other brands), but it's also a "my STOCK 325 is better than your STOCK 325 because it's blue" discussion...
I wasn't refering to THIS thread when I said that I haven't read any full threads of good experiences. This is OBVIOUSLY a problems thread. I'm talking about ALL threads (do I need to make that ANY CLEARER to you?) that I've read and not just here, but on bimmer.org, automotiveforums.com, etc., etc...the predominate subjects always seem to be problem issues (most are small, some are big) If you look at back the older JD Powers studies, you'll see that Infiniti and Honda USED to rate higher...I haven't owned a Honda or Infiniti is the past 3 years...so it again, my comment still stands.
And again, I UNDERSTAND that this is a "problem" thread, but if you were looking to buy a new car, wouldn't you want to look in the PROBLEM sections before you bought it? I'm also the type of buyer to ask about their service (maintenance) before I buy a car too...I like to cover all my bases...
As for modifications, I don't modify to make the car MORE reliable. I modify to get MORE performance...be it handling or speed. Don't give BMW too much credit here...I would modify a BMW also (as you can see on my first post). Even a Porsche. There is ALWAYS room for performance improvement as the manufactures are held back by regulations and bottom line cost (even then, there is STILL room for improvement at the "manufacturer's" level as RUF's Turbo R shows over the standard 996/911 Turbo...yes, RUF is considered a manufacturer, not just a tuner.)
And are you some type of Automotive "Professional" that can PROVE that custom modifications will make the car less reliable? I've owned modified cars my whole life and I have yet to run into a problem that was caused by the aftermarket product. The key is buying QUALITY aftermarket parts. Don't confuse this with the idiots that think adding a tach with a shift light in their AUTOMATIC Civic is "performance modifications"...whole different category.
And WHY THE HELL would a shop need a Six Sigma or QS9000 certification to istall a STRUT TOWER BAR? It's 6 bolts and about 15 minutes of time with a socket wrench. A 15 year old could install one! Do you know ANYTHING about auto mechanics?
As for evidence, this thread ALONE is evidence. I have already BOUGHT a Lexus (two of them) but I'm looking for a car in a PARTICULAR category (haven't you figured this out yet?) where I'm not 100% pleased by the offering that Lexus has. I'm not going to drop $35K on a car I'm not 100% pleased with! Maybe dropping $35K on a marginal car is OK for you, but not for me. Do you even OWN a BMW? Your profile says you own a Mazda...
Now if you want to throw out JD Powers studies...look here...look at where Infiniti and Honda was when I owned them...you can't just go by ONE year and ONE study...look at the overall studies throughout the years...
Anyways, like I said, I *WAS* seriously planning on buying a 325Ci so I'm not FLAMING BMW. I still think they make one of the better handling cars (in STOCK form)...the 3 series...but for me, it takes more than good stock handling (which really, means not too much to me since it would be upgraded anyhow) and good looks. Dealer/Factory customer service, reliablility, and quality are HUGE and dominating factors. The WORSE thing you can have is an expensive car that breaks and having both the dealer and manufacturer not really giving a damn WHILE UNDER WARRANTY. Outside of warranty I can understand. I think the BMW 3 series is a great looking car (as is the 5 series with the "angel eyes"). I think the 3 series is BETTER LOOKING than the IS300. But it takes more than LOOKS when it comes to cars.
You are a class act! C'mon, hit us with your bankbook again- We're all so impressed... Next time why not simply post a copy of your 1040? That should REALLY humble us. But the question remains: How come so many Wanna-BMW driver/poseurs feel the need to troll and flame the BMW boards? Could it be that it's more interesting, involving, and exciting than driving their Lexotas?
Shipo - I am of course interested in reading about the problems of the E46 (as I explained earlier). And talk about arrogance...Maybe you should look at others like Div2 for that...("BMW Envy"...)
Div2 - Once again, NO FACTS. Just BS. I don't want your opinion of me because I don't give a rat's azz. Why don't you make some CONSTRUCTIVE comments. Give me reasons, not the BS that you're spitting out. "Let's just ignore the troll"...awww, I can't be part of your "club"? Yeah...whatever...
My "bankbook" has NOTHING to do with this. I just wanted you to understand that I'm not "stuck" with having to own just one car. I can buy a BMW TODAY if I wanted to...so there is NO NEED for me to envy one. What I don't want to do is buy a car that's just going to be a money/time pit. It's called RESEARCHING and being a SMART CONSUMER.
What I wanted is for E46 owners to show me that the problems here are NOT common and that their E46's are not as problematic as they seem. So far, only RHMASS has come forward with some useful INFORMATION...not FLAMES like Div2...MSCHUKAR brought some information to the table that was interesting only because it worked out AGAINST what he (she? Sorry, I don't want to guess) was trying to say. I'm in no way flaming MSCHUKAR of course...it's just that information given to me, once looked into, didn't make BMW's reliablilty look as good as MSCHUKAR intended I'm sure.
You know, so far, Div2 you've come to the table with NOTHING but flames and derogatory statements. So who's the troll here? You also throw out "Lexotas" like Lexus/Toyota is something bad...I guess I need to remind you that they set the INDUSTRY STANDARD for quality. Even other manufacturers, like BMW, acknowledge that. Why do you have so much hate for Lexus/Toyota? You should look into that...maybe you have Lexus/Toyota Envy?
Now, Div2, if you would like to post something INFORMATIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE, let me hear it. If you're just going to flame, I'm not even going to bother replying.
And again, the reason why I'm looking to the E46 is because I'm not particularly 100% satisfied with the IS300 (and it's not a coupé). And the Mercedes C-Class lacks enough aftermarket products and the "coupé" is just not my style (plus the engine isn't to my liking). Now obviously, if I was BIASED, I would just buy the IS300...but as you can see, I'm not.
Lexus sets the standard for reliability and service
No argument here.
BMW service sucks
I think this depends on the individual dealership. I've ordered a BMW so I can't speak from experience on this one.
BMW reliability is questionable
Looking over the links posted, BMW is, at worst, well above the industry average. I think it's safe to say that an unreliable brand today is still more reliable than the best from 20-30 years ago.
I've owned a Volvo (unreliable by most measures) for 4 years and the worst problem I've had is a broken headlight switch. As long as I don't get stranded, it's not a major problem.
Thank you Murray. My uncle actually owned a Volvo (740 Turbo Wagon...'91 I believe) and the only problem he had was with broken interior parts (arm rest, etc.). He then bought a S80 and he's had MAJOR problems. Ignition went bad (took over 2 months to get it straightened out), something with the radio and something with the ECU. To say the least, he's not very happy at this point. To him, time is money and he's wasted a lot of time going to and from the dealership.
I have also done some more research and the '95-'00 BMW 3-Series is on a "reliable used car" list for the insurance companies (many thanks go out my insurance agent who fowarded me the list). Which makes feel more confident.
As for the dealerships, I hear you. There are few bad Lexus dealerships also but the great thing is, is that Lexus Corporate cares. I'm know the guys at my local Lexus dealership pretty well and they've told me many incidents where Lexus corporate got people "let go" from the dealerships due to customer complaints. That's good to know that Lexus cares about what Customers say. I've been to several local BMW dealerships and have gotten nothing but attitude (regardless of what I drive in or how I'm dressed). And from what I've read, BMW doesn't seem to care. Anyone have some personal experience with BMW Corporate "taking care" of you?
Is there some sort of reference list that lists good customer experiences at BMW Dealerships somewhere? I'd rather buy from a dealership that cares....I don't want them telling me that "it's part of the BMW experience" when if tranny starts to make weird noises. I want them to fix it, no questions asked and with no "weaseling" and no BS.
I check in here once in a while since a 3 series is on my short list of next cars. I check in here to learn of any specific trends, re-occuring problems and the solutions that individual owners have found for those problems.
I do not come here to hear, for the 20 millionth time, the very worn out argument of "What better way for me to spend my very conspicuous wad of cash; the overpriced BMW or the overhyped Lexus?". Comparing these cars is ridiculous once you have already established your purchase criteria. I.E., "What's more important: The statistical likelihood of great service at the Lexus dealership that I will never need since I bought such a reliable car or, the statistical likelihood of medicore service at the BMW dealership that I may need because I bought a car primarily because it is so much fun to drive". Who cares?! If statistical high reliability combined with guaranteed boredom is more important to you than statistical above average reliability combined with guaranteed fun to drive, then spend that wad of cash you are waving in front of everyone's face on the Lexus. A good and rational choice, I might add, based on your criteria.
Regardless, it is a discussion for another board (bored). mp5(etc.), Go ahead and start a new topic somewhere else (or join one of the many in progress) and I'll be sure not to check there since the "My apple is better than your orange!" flame-fests hold little interest to anyone but children.
I got a 2000 BMW 328i for my 20th birthday. Its been close to two years now since I have had this car. My only problem is when I got the car I was rather ignorant regarding cars and did not select the sports package. But during those two years I have realized and experienced the 3 series with the sports package and in my opinion it is a heck of a lot better driving experience than the regular 3-series.
My options are as such.
1) My dealership does upgrade cars with DINAN products. Are they any good? I am thinking about doing the level 2 suspension upgrade. Which adds stiffer springs and anti rollbars.
2) A while back the continental touring tires that came with my car got cut at 15000 miles I replaced them with Yokohoma DBS or AVS something. Meant to be very quiet etc. I don't know if it is the tires or not but my car is really shifty these days. They have the same measurement as the Continentals but they are listed as performance tires and not grand touring tires at tirerack.com. Any suggestions on what would be some good tires to move on to? Is it worth increasing the wheel size? To 17 or 18 inches?
3) The reason why I am hesitant on simply getting the 330 is I am an audiophile and I have done some extensive work on my car and it will be a pain to start shifting it. Unless the cost of upgrading the 328 is equal or greater than the cost of acquiring a new 330.
Just wanted to know what you guys think about DINAN and also are they reliable? The dealership will do it so they said it won't void the BMW warranty. Any advice would be appreciated.
Hey all, nice message board. I thought I would give some facts on what my 323i has been like since I leased it new in Feb of '99. It has been an extremely reliable car overall, and I'm very happy with it. It now has about 43,700 miles. Unlike some horror stories I've heard, the brakes have not been replaced. It is a 5-spd, which helps. Only 2 things have gone wrong to date of any significance:
1. Power windows. I don't know what wizard designed them, but they are shaky. I've had the passenger side window guide replaced twice and the right/rear guide replaced once.
2. Suspension control arms. This was replaced about 500 miles ago. I learned while braking at high speeds the pedal would pulsate, so I figured the front brakes may be bad. Nope. The front control arms needed to be replaced, and now the car handles better than it ever did before. The control arms were redesigned recently, I gather.
My front brakes have another 15-20k miles left or so, and the clutch is also fine. I've had this car up to 125 mph, and it's smooth as silk. My lease is up in August & I think I'm going for a 330Ci or 330Cxi. Later...
for not buying BMW, and for buying Japanese, are that I think German companies are slow to fix problems with the cars, because their engineers design them and then "think" they are perfect (cause they designed them) but the Japanese listen to the customers more and fix the problems fast. The other reason was fear of expensive service.
I'm not sure I agree with this statement that German automakers are slow to fix problems. BMW is very quick at letting its customers know about recalls and the like. They were basically rushing me to get my car in to have the thermostat recall checked out.
There is nothing wrong with a little pride in your work, and the Germans (and Japanese) have it. To my knowledge, BMW has been quick to admit problems (unlike Audi of the past) and fix them outright.
And I wasn't aware of the J.D. Power & Associates rankings. BMW is pretty consistently above average across the board, and beating some Japanese carmakers in the process.
As far as expensive service, I haven't had to pay a cent for any service I've received; it's all under warranty. And I haven't had much service done to begin with.
My 2000 323i is a much much better car than the car I drove before it (1998 Camry, recommend it only to those over the age of 80!!). But I cannot say the same when I compare it with my work-horse/winter car: a 1988 Accord that I owned since 1988. Of course BMW has a much better engine and handles better and it has the more recent (by 12 years) technology, and so on. But the BMW also has a "weird" clutch and a so-so 5-speed transmission which is difficult to shift when cold.
What I do not understand about BMW's attitute is the following:
1. I have the famous B-pillar seat belt anchor rattle. Early this year BMW came up with a TSB (and an improved part=spacer ring) on this problem. This so called improved spacer ring ("improved" means a slight change in the shape of the original small plastic disc) still rattles, and I have no idea even why BMW bothers to call it "improved." By the way, I had to drive to the dealer (110 miles round trip) three times to get the "improved' spacer ring installed properly. I admit that this is not a "major" malfunction. However, listening to this rattling and chirping noise about 4 inches from my left ear is a major nuisance. 2. Another problem I have is a well known BMW trademark: Rear clunk. Yes I have the rear clunk and it just is another BMW quality control problem. It involves installation of the out-of-spec rear axles on the production cars instead of discarding them. The responses I got from BMW service people on this item are the following: -Service manager: "BMW is studying the problem, we'll get back to you when we discover what the problem is." Really! -A mechanic: "They all do that." Doesn't this sound familiar!?
3. Now I am having problems with the wonderful BMW electronics: Once or twice each week, when I try to start the car the starter turns about a second then everything locks out (sounds like the oil burner on my boiler!!!). I have to reset it (turn the ignition off) and try again. Dealer's response to my complaint: "Could not find any codes stored in the computer." Well, at least they tried!
Once again, so far these problems did prevent me from driving the car, but this car costs about three times as much as my wife's Nubira (and Nubira has a much much better stereo and not a single problem!).
If BMW NA is listening: I hope that BMW will at least come up with a solution for the seat belt anchor rattle in the NEAR future(?)
I know that BMW will do nothing about the rear clunk.
The ignition lock-out: I am PRAYING everyday that it won't get any worse.
We are thrilled to have purchased a Jet-Black/Gray leather 2002 325 Convertible. We didn't opt for the sport package, the convertible/coupes already come with a sport tuned suspension (compared to the sedans), making it any more stiffer would only be asking for rough rough rides in the california roads. Its a 5 speed steptronic as the car is primarily for my wife. Even I prefer the available-shifting mode as my first 1 year with a stick shift RWD car was a very tiring experience in the bay area traffic.
The car is running great and we are having a wonderful time, first 1 month, we put only 600miles. But as the car is being broken in, our use will increase and canyon/hill drives will be re-visited.
I read through the full 294 posts in this message board to make sure I am aware of all the current issues with the E46 platform. 2 things I can understand about the issues:
1. As it was a totally new platform starting 1999, there were bound to be "some" flaws which are surfacing after about 2 yrs on the road. I guess from 2002 onwards, most of those problems ( like the "cling" noise, or thormostat issues ) are taken care of.
2. Owning a BMW implies driving hard. So BMW owners definitely stretch their cars more than most owners of other brand cars. Driving hard invites frequent brake service ( needing replacement soon ).
3. Please don't go by the sertive interval for oil change. I have talked to sales ( BMW and others alike ) and guess what they all have to say, ( If you are leasing the car or want to sell after 3 yrs/36K miles, they just follow the 15K service interval, your vehicle will be okay, but if you want to keep it for long, 3K or 5K oil change is advisable ).
Even though synthetic oil holds on to its qualities longer than normal engine oil and that the BMW engines hold more oil in their oil pan than other engines of similar size, its just impossible for 1 oil filter to hold on to the debri/sludge/dirt for THAT LONG. If you think thats too much money, AT LEAST change the oil filter once every 3K miles. Please do it so that YOUR BMW stays healthy no matter who owns it next. The service interval indicator computes how hard you drive ( acceleration ), oil temperature, # of starts including cold starts ) etc to compute the oil change interval. If the indicator had a sensor right inside the engine oil pan to check the oil quality, I would have been bought by the technology, but just this computation makes me nervous. I will go on with 3K oil and filter change, NO MATTER WHAT. Its a little more money but I can sleep well thinking my Bimmer is well taken care of.
4. The 5 speed step-tronic Automatic transmission from ZF is maintenance-free, impling no need to change AT fluid for the life of the car. RIGHT!! The harder the car is driven, the faster the ATF degrades ( even though that is also a synthetic fluid ). Acceleration, idling when transmission is engaged, heat up the ATF, causing its life to reduce. The ATF must be FLUSHED every 30K. Not just changed, it should be FLUSHED ( with pan drop, filter changed etc).
5. Once in 2 yrs, brake fluid change, Power Steering Fluid change, LSD fluid change, radiator/coolant fluid change, is all you need for your car to run for years ( a minimum of 200K miles), without any MAJOR problems.
As this is a board where owners and others discuss issues/problems, I thought of sharing some preventive care measures that can actually help avoid any issues later on.
Please provide any other preventive care actions that can help us enjoy the BMW ownership for years.
As edmunds put it, our car is the ULTIMATE TANNING MACHINE.
Where is your evidence? What facts do you have to dispel what the engineers recommend for oil change intervals?
It seems that BMW did in fact do a poor job on the initial oil filter released with the E46, however, said filter has since been redesigned and is more than capable of filtering oil for 15,000 miles. That said, how much crud do you think a modern ULEV engine produces anyway? If you do the research, I suggest that you will find that 15,000 miles of normal driving for an E46 will yield less crud in the oil than 5,000 miles from an engine of just 5 years ago.
Folks, when discussing Oil Change intervals, please, stick to the facts. Hearsay and religious beliefs (ie. my Granddaddy changed his oil at 3,000 miles, my Daddy changes his oil at 3,000 miles and so do I) just do not belong in a discussion like this.
Appreciate your info on the new oil filter installation by BMW.You are right that there is no hard evidence as yet which says changing oil every 15K is bad. If there was, then BMW engineers wouldn't put this in their cars. But guess what, no facts will be on table until these engines are 6/7 yrs old (70/80K+) miles....
We can stop this discussion right away if I just mention that changing oil every 3K gives me personal comfort and a feel of reliability in my car. May be its a waste of money for some, but for me, its a cheap insurance.
However, as you have asked to see if there is any ground to my claim, I am here stating the research I have done so far.
1. The factory filled synthetic oil engines is a new thing. Less than 2/3 yrs old. The service interval of 15K is the highest ever by any manufacturer. I looked at the 2001 MB 320/430 engine and it mentions a service interval of 8K. BMW is providing free maintenance, if they did oil change every 5K, thats a lot more money they have to spend from their pocket.
Here is a link to Mobil 1 ( fully synthetic ) FAQ page which might be of interest.... Go to www.mobil1.com , click on "Why synthetics", click on FAQs, read the answer to Q. Can I go longer without changing my oil if I use a synthetic? A. Each auto manufacturer develops and specifies oil and filter change requirements for their vehicles. While certain synthetic oils can give excellent results in extended oil drain tests, it's best to remain conservative with oil drain intervals. This allows the reserve wear protection capabilities of synthetic oils to cover unusual or unexpected driving conditions.
2. LEV/ULEV engines produce lower contanimants. Okay, may be slightly better. HONDA's LEV/ULEV engines still come with the standard oil change intervals as the non-LEV engines used to. I guess they want to make sure no matter who the driver is, and how hard/bad driving he/she does, their engines will always be bullet proof.
3. Have talked to MB/Porsche/BMW Technicians ( Who service our cars ) and their only response was: "Change at 3K/5K to be safe". I can safely assume that these factory trained and certified techs know what they are saying.
I hope you understand that these are healthy discussions that can only help us and others. Lets not take anything personal or start writing derogatory remarks. Lets make ourselves more knowledgeable, there is always room for it.
If my tone was taken as derogatory, you have my sincere apology; it was not my intent to offend. What I am trying to achieve is a factual discourse on the subject, which, up to now has been all too “Smoke and mirrors” for my taste from many folks here on Edmunds.
As for what the “Factory Trained Engineers” know, believe or guess at, my guess is that some of them are woefully under informed. In the mid 1990’s I was working for MBUSA here in Montvale and for about a year I had an office that was lofted above the shop floor where all domestic work was performed on new models yet to be released. Needless to say, being a car junkie, I spent a lot of time bantering with the engineers.
Back in 1996 there were several test mules (1996 E420s with the new Twin-Spark, 3 Valve LEV 4.3 liter V8 engines installed) running around (being driven under the worst possible of conditions). One of the things being closely monitored was of course, the oil. During that time, an oil sample was taken from every car at 2,500 mile intervals and sent out for chemical analysis (much the same as the owners of General Aviation aircraft do on a frequent basis) to determine what was a practical limit for oil life in these new engines. As it turned out, the cars were all driven between 20,000 and 25,000 before the oil reached minimum standards.
While I was not privy to the statistical analysis (which was completed after I left MBUSA), the engineers obviously felt that a modern LEV/ULEV engine, with a large oil pan filled with Synthetic Oil was more that capable of protecting an engine well beyond traditional oil change intervals.
FWIW, I am more than willing to bet that oil analysis is able to determine how well an engine is being protected by the oil in it’s sump. In fact, as a pilot in training, I routinely fly a 35-year-old aircraft with well over a thousand hours of student pilot time on the current engine. That said, I am betting my life that the engine in that plane is healthy, and that the oil analysis (along with compression tests and such) will tell the mechanics when it is not.
Thank you Shipo for all the valuable inputs. I didn't take your initial post in a wrong way, it was nice of you to be patient and informative.
I agree that the oil might be still okay at the end of 15K, considering the larger oil pans for the new engines. But there are so many smaller parts in the engine that can deteriorate faster if the oil is getting older and still in use. While the oil will likely be fine, the cleaner oil will keep the piston top ring lands cleaner, making for better sealing down the road. Personally, I will be happy to get an oil change once every 5K. ( Look! I came down from 3K interval to 5K interval, thanks to you ).
Okay, I have some questions for you here. 1. Break-in!! I learnt that all new BMW engines are factory broken in. If its true, is it also true that after they break in, do they do an oil change before shipping to US or the broken-in engine contains the same old oil ?
Also I understand that with synthetic oil, the engine takes longer time to break-in. So some cars usually break-in using conventional motor oil and then change to synthetic oil.
My sales guy told me that for the first 500 miles, keep the rpm below 4500. Thats it. Anything else I am missing ?
my earlier opinion that German engineers were less responsive than Japanese to fixing problems was based on:
1. in the middle 70's VW Rabitts from 1975 to about 1981 had badly leaking valve stem seals. So bad that they burned about 1 quart of oil every 400 miles. As US drivers don't check the oil at every fill up, some engines actually locked up on the freeway causing wrecks and in 81 or 82 the FTC or NHTSA forced VW to recall the valve stem seals and fix them at VW expense. The seals were cheap $16 but $100 labor then. I am sure this problem was first known to VW in early 1975 when the first US traveling salesman complained about burning oil. They chose to ignore the problem and did not even change the part composition until forced to by the FTC 6 years later - changing the part composition on the newer cars in production 75-81 would have been easy.
2. In an Autoweek ( I think) magazine interview several years ago the BMW factory Quality control manager stated that the 90 - 95 ( I may be off a few years here) 3 series model air conditioners were "badly undersized" but that "now the problem had been fixed as the system capacity had been increased 30 per cent" (95 96 era models). Wow - missing the mark by 30 % was off quite a bit, but taking 5 model years to fix it was too slow - but in Europe/Germany it was probably not a problem as its not as hot as say Dallas or New Mexico.
Comments
One of the auto magazines recently compared a 'vette, an M3 and a Boxter S. I just glanced at the article, but the summary at the end went something like "You would need a pretty accurate stopwatch to tell the difference between the Corvette and the M3, but the M3 gives you a back seat and a more comfortable ride for day to day commuting."
Personally, I would take an M3 over a Corvette in most cases.
-Murray
Jim
As for ABS braking systems being calibrated, what's up with that? ABS systems have sensors to determine if any individual tire is slipping and adjusts accordingly. End of story. """ The tire and its compound and how well said compound will grip a warm dry road has absolutely nothing to do with {when} the computer tells the ABS system to kick in. True but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STICKY TIRES WILL NOT SLIP so the ABS never comes on!
The preprogrammed slip control ratio of the ABS is set at 0.15 to 0.30 to accomidate a road to tire friction coefficient of 0.25 [wet/snow] to something around 0.9 G for dry paved roads.
The better the molecular binding betweeen the tire and the road the less [% of time] the ABS will work [no ABS action at all if tires are sticky enough to not slip.
See the brakes can decelerate the car faster than average tires can handle [> 1.0 G].
ABS allows the use of less than stellar tires to get a reasonable safe stop but better tires will stop shorter without ABS.
There is an ecu in ABS which is programmed for each individual car model and it's factory tires.
As for ABS, you state “There is an ecu in ABS which is programmed for each individual car model and it’s factory tires.” Maybe some carmakers skimp on their product, however, you are quite naïve to assume that ALL cars are equipped with an ABS system that will only operate at its best with factory tires installed. Just for the sake of argument, let us take a look at the E46 BMW (3-Series), these cars are available with 4 different tire/wheel combinations of various tread compounds and widths. If one were to listen to you, one would come to the conclusion that BMW has 4 different ECUs, one for each tire/wheel setup. Not likely. In addition, BMW recommends that cars equipped with the Sport Package (which includes summer tires) switch to winter tires for cold weather driving. Are you then suggesting that each time a BMW owner changes his/her tires that they need to go to the dealership and have the ECU changed out/re-calibrated in an effort to make sure that the ABS system is operating properly?
Now, as far as your assertions that the better the tire the shorter the stopping distance, I know of no one who would argue that point. You also stated that better tires would stop shorter without ABS. You forgot to mention that most (if not all) cars would stop shorter without ABS regardless of what kind of tires were installed; this has been a fact of life since ABS was first introduced. However, while a car may stop shorter without ABS, it will not have control, given that the shorter stop we are talking about is with a full lock-up of the tires. To the best of my knowledge, I have never seen a test where a controlled stop without ABS beat a full pedal stop with ABS on the same car.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Since static friction (tire rolling) is always a higher value than kinetic friction (tire sliding), the only time that locked wheels will result in shorter stopping distances is if the vehicle is on a loose surface (ever wonder why some 4X4's disable ABS when 4WD is selected?). In fact, the whole idea behind ABS is to maintain static friction between the tire tread and road surface, and kinetic friction between the brake pads and rotors. Switch those two around and you have locked wheels, longer stopping distances, and no steering control.
Kelsey Hayes manufactured most light truck rear ABS systems (Ford RABS, GM and Chrysler RWAL), required for effective rear braking with varying amounts and placement of payload. Their systems used a single speed sensor, transmission or differential mounted, for ecu wheel speed input. Since these systems have no other speed sensors to use for wheel deceleration rate comparison, they do in fact use a programmed algorithm calibrated for a theoretical maximum wheel decel rate for a given vehicle.
Performance tires may have multi-ply stiff sidewalls and nylon caps and special edge reinforcements which allow the tire to steer and brake best at lower slip angles vs single ply sidewall squirmy M+S tires which require large slip angles.
A performance tire may have 1.25 [u] at 9 degrees with 2mm tread vs the same tire 1.15 [u] at 15 degrees when new with an 8 mm tread......that's the problem the numbers you quote are for New mediocre tires as that is what manufacturers supply.
The 90-96 Q45 without TCS uses the single diff sensor with a programmed lookup table calibrated to the OEM tires along with a viscous LSD differential....as do/did most LSD equipt cars.
Since most cars are front wheel driven without LSD...about as far from performance as you can get the primary braking is in the front vs a more balanced [F/R dist].
Love the car though. It's going to be a bear to get through the first 1200 miles
Best Regards,
Shipo
What is the recommnded oil for E46 engines?
As far as the rear clunk goes on manual transmissions, I do not notice any at all on this 10 year old car.
I was hoping someone could help me out with a problem I'm having. First off I do not know much about cars. I own a '97 328iS with the sports package so it has the thin Z-rated tires.
Over time, apparently, from the sound I am hearing (a thumping that gets quicker the faster I go) and from what the dealer told me a few months ago, I have THREE bent rims! I have talked to people saying that this sounds impossible. But it is really getting noticable and I'm afraid my tires could be at risk.
I had the rims "fixed" for $100 per rim in the spring, and they had them weighted so now my car does not "shake" when I get into high speeds, but the thumping still seems to be there and is noticeable up to around 40mph.
BMW says they want $500 per rim (once again they can't seem to help me with a problem) and I would rather not take that route, but I don't know what other choices I have.
Has anyone experienced this and does anyone have any suggestions? I guess I may be steering directly into potholes or something because this is really frutstrating - I have a friend with an M3 that lives in the area and never experienced anything similar. Any help or information would be appreciated and could save me $2k!!!
Thanks...
eug
I have had my moon roof cover broken twice( The interior cover gets out of track and broken pieces fall off). I think there might be a flaw in design. Does any one know how to fix the problem? It has failed twice after repair. Any one has had similar problem please advise.
THX
Another is alloembmwparts.com
by jodar96 Nov 08, 2001 (05:49 am)
I asked this question earlier. Where is the best price website to get brake pads, rotors, filters, regular maintenance items, and where is th best site to get used or new BMW parts like head lights, tail lights, interior panels.
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I'm new to the board and am hoping one of the experts can answer a question.
I have a 2001 325i with slightly over 5,000 miles. I noticed when I checked the oil that I was down a little over a half quart. Having never owned a car that used exclusively synthetic oil or went 15,000 miles between changes, I wasn't sure if this was normal usage. The dealer told me this was completely normal, and would continue until the car was completely broken in. This could be as much as 17-18,000 miles. Does this sound normal and has anyone else had a similar experience ? Also, does anyone recommend having the oil changed more frequently, even though it is not covered by BMW.
Many thanks
Recently, I've been SERIOUSLY considering a new 2002 BMW 325Ci...I was going to fully do it up also (ESS Supercharger, Dinan Strut Tower Bars, H&R Coilovers, MVR Aerodynamics, MVR 19" wheels, Brembo brakes, etc., etc.) but after reading this thread, I think I'll pass...I'm really saddened by this as I really had my heart set on a nice Orient Blue with black interior sport packaged 325ci (only getting the sport package for the seats as everything else would have been thrown out and upgraded)
I've always heard that BMW servics sucks on various BMW and non-BMW forums. I'm coming from the Lexus camp so I'm used to be "taken care of" by the dealer. NEVER have they tried to take advantage of me (I always play "dumb" at dealership to see how badly they try to screw me...this is particularly fun to do at Mercedes dealerships...they must get some COMPLETELY ignorant people there...lotsa money, no mechanical sense...) It seems rather obvious that BMW service does suck from these posts. I have yet to read a full thread full of "good" experiences anywhere...
Also, the PROBLEMS you guys are having. It's just sick. I'ved owned Japanese cars all my life (Honda, Infiniti, and Lexus) and they have NEVER had a major problem. Only some very minor ones that the dealers took care of w/o question. And I'm HARD on my cars. I love driving canyons, I always fix them up (as I described above)...drive them about 30K miles/year, etc., etc...
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not "Japan Rules" kinda guy...there are some Japanese cars that I wouldn't buy (like Mitsubishi...except the Evo's...and Suburus...except the WRX) but seriously, just from this thread it seems that 3 series are rather problematic with known problems and few solution.
I was also considering a IS300 and C240 (I'm just looking for a nice little "daily driver project" car...I must admit, the C240 is the least desirable as it has the least amount of aftermarket products) but I guess my only real choice is the IS300 now...which I was trying to avoid because there are a LOT of them in my area...I guess I could wait for the Infiniti G35 to see what they have to offer...
It's too bad BMW doesn't fix these ongoing problems with dealership attitude/service/performance and mechanical problems (a GM tranny? They should have contracted Toyota instead!)...because I really love the styling of the BMW's but I'm NOT willing to deal with the problems...nor am I willing to roll the dice and hope I get one that's made in Germany and made on a good day in optimal conditions.
mp5k-pdw
http://www.gem-tech.com/Images/mk9kL.jpg
I love German guns and Swiss Watches!
With a few aftermarket mods (less than $1000 worth in the case of a GS or IS), I can make ALMOST any car handle better than a stock 3 or 5 series Sport models. Sway bars, Strut Tower Bars, improved shock/spring or coilover setups, etc.
Don't get me wrong, compared to MOST cars, the BMWs are excellent handling cars. But I've driven dozens of full suspension modified cars and many, many Porsches. So to someone like me, even a M3 or M5 is just "pedestrian" in terms of handling...but I'll definitely agree that a GS, in stock form, is DEFINITELY geared toward a Luxury ride.
If BMW and Toyota got together (let Toyota handle the electronics, QC, ergonomics, and final engineering...let's face it, the Japanese have a leg up compared to the Germans in these cases!), THOSE would be some GREAT cars...fast, reliable, good looking, well handling, and priced reasonably. Win-Win IMO.
Much better than "Dailmer-Chrysler" (what the HELL was Mercedes thinking?)
Do you have any statistics to back up your statements? Check out http://www.auto.com/industry/iqs18_20010518.htm
According to the 2001 J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study, BMW beats several Japanese auto makers including Infiniti, Honda and, surprise surprise, Toyota. Kind of makes me wonder how you came up with your above statement.
You are correct that Lexus is on top, but BMW's certainly are not the lemons that you make them out to be!
-Murray
Here's the quote from the FIRST PARAGRAPH of that page...I think you kinda shot yourself in the foot here...
>Toyota Motor Corp. and its Lexus luxury division
>dominated the 2001 J. D. Power and Associates
>Initial Quality Study (IQS)
Secondly, don't just look which Position the manufactures are in the list, but look at the actual NUMBERS.
The spread between Lexus and BMW is whopping 34 points (#1 to #4). The spread between BMW and Toyota is only 2 points (#4 to #5). And you're comparing a PREMIUM brand (BMW) to a CONSUMER brand (Toyota)...but anyways, let's subtract the difference, Toyota/Lexus is still a whopping 32 points ahead of BMW...now look at the rest of the list...the spread between BMW and Chevy is only 28...that's #4 to #15 (as opposed to #1 to #4)...and before you accuse me of miscounting, I just took out the "ties"...so Saab/Toyota/Buick (@ 121 each) would be equal to 1 spot...as with Audi and Porsche (@ 140 each)...this actually works out better for your argument...don't say I never give you anything...
So my statement still stands...even stronger now. Thanks.
Hehehe, I'm surprised to see Jaguar (of all brands) to be up there! Did Ford finally get rid of the horrible electronic systems that Jag used to use? Too bad my local dealership gives out Ford Focuses as loaner cars...that's pretty sad...at least at Lexus, you get another Lexus (ES300/IS300/RX300)
And I'm not trying to make BMW's look like lemons. I WANTED to get a BMW but after hearing all the problems here with the 3 series (among other places of course), I have decided not to...at least with a Lexus, if I have a problem (which, as your own link suggests, will be A LOT less likely), I KNOW Lexus and Lexus Dealerships CARE. *THAT*, in itself is important. I don't think even *you* can say that BMW's customer service is at all acceptable...
...but trust me, I'm not all gung-ho on the IS300...I still love the looks of the 3-series but it takes more than just looks for me to dunk down $35K on a car that I need to be reliable above all else...looks/performance are secondary (but a close second)...and the let's face it, the IS300 isn't exactly miles behind in performance...looks are, of course, in the eye of the beholder and rather not get into that aspect of this discussion as it's purely just opinion.
The title of the board is "BMW 3-Series (E46) Problems (M&R Board)", not "BMW Good Experience and Happy Customer Board". This is a strange place to look for "good experiences".
I'ved owned Japanese cars all my life (Honda, Infiniti, and Lexus) and they have NEVER had a major problem
JD Powers shows that BMW beats two of the three Japanese brands you boast about. I've driven several cars over the past 20 and I can't say I've ever "had a major problem" with any car.
just from this thread it seems that 3 series are rather problematic with known problems and few solution
Again, this is a "Problems" board. If they weren't problems or had easy solutions, they wouldn't be posted here, would they?
With a few aftermarket mods (less than $1000 worth in the case of a GS or IS), I can make ALMOST any car handle better than a stock 3 or 5 series Sport models
It seems strange that manufacturers of "any car" don't offer these mods as an option since it would cost the manufacturer less than $1000 to do this in production. Of course you may be more knowledgeable than the engineers who design "any car", I can't tell from your posts.
If reliability is your main concern, why do you plan on making numerous modifications to a base model to improve performance? What quality standards (Six Sigma, QS 9000, etc.) will the shop doing the work follow? Do you have any statistics to show that the modifications will make the car more reliable? I'm certain that custom modifications will make the car less reliable than a stock model.
Looking at the numbers again as you suggest, Lexus is clearly ahead of the pack and a few "points" separate 2nd from 10th. May I conclude that, if these stats remain true in the future, you will never own another car besides Lexus? Buying an Acura, for example, would not satisfy your number one criteria (reliability) for car buying.
You seem to be the one flaming BMW with no real evidence to back up your claims. I suggest you buy your Lexus and enjoy it rather than seeking enjoyment by putting down another brand.
-Murray
Have you ever though that it could be that BMW's owners just don't want to admit that they bought a POS and are willing to look past the problems so they don't look dumb for making that purchasing decision?
That's not what I think personally, but let's face it, that statement is as valid as yours...
You've obviously NEVER read anything on bimmer.org...not only is it "mine is better than yours" discussion (in relation to other brands), but it's also a "my STOCK 325 is better than your STOCK 325 because it's blue" discussion...
And again, I UNDERSTAND that this is a "problem" thread, but if you were looking to buy a new car, wouldn't you want to look in the PROBLEM sections before you bought it? I'm also the type of buyer to ask about their service (maintenance) before I buy a car too...I like to cover all my bases...
As for modifications, I don't modify to make the car MORE reliable. I modify to get MORE performance...be it handling or speed. Don't give BMW too much credit here...I would modify a BMW also (as you can see on my first post). Even a Porsche. There is ALWAYS room for performance improvement as the manufactures are held back by regulations and bottom line cost (even then, there is STILL room for improvement at the "manufacturer's" level as RUF's Turbo R shows over the standard 996/911 Turbo...yes, RUF is considered a manufacturer, not just a tuner.)
And are you some type of Automotive "Professional" that can PROVE that custom modifications will make the car less reliable? I've owned modified cars my whole life and I have yet to run into a problem that was caused by the aftermarket product. The key is buying QUALITY aftermarket parts. Don't confuse this with the idiots that think adding a tach with a shift light in their AUTOMATIC Civic is "performance modifications"...whole different category.
And WHY THE HELL would a shop need a Six Sigma or QS9000 certification to istall a STRUT TOWER BAR? It's 6 bolts and about 15 minutes of time with a socket wrench. A 15 year old could install one! Do you know ANYTHING about auto mechanics?
Now if you want to throw out JD Powers studies...look here...look at where Infiniti and Honda was when I owned them...you can't just go by ONE year and ONE study...look at the overall studies throughout the years...
http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/9914b.gif
That's just one...just replace the "9914b.gif" with the following to see the rest...
01102afull.gif
0139afull.gif
0127afull.gif
2074a.gif
1105afull.gif
Anyways, like I said, I *WAS* seriously planning on buying a 325Ci so I'm not FLAMING BMW. I still think they make one of the better handling cars (in STOCK form)...the 3 series...but for me, it takes more than good stock handling (which really, means not too much to me since it would be upgraded anyhow) and good looks. Dealer/Factory customer service, reliablility, and quality are HUGE and dominating factors. The WORSE thing you can have is an expensive car that breaks and having both the dealer and manufacturer not really giving a damn WHILE UNDER WARRANTY. Outside of warranty I can understand. I think the BMW 3 series is a great looking car (as is the 5 series with the "angel eyes"). I think the 3 series is BETTER LOOKING than the IS300. But it takes more than LOOKS when it comes to cars.
Please take your toys and go elsewhere, your input and arrogance is not wanted here.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Div2 - Once again, NO FACTS. Just BS. I don't want your opinion of me because I don't give a rat's azz. Why don't you make some CONSTRUCTIVE comments. Give me reasons, not the BS that you're spitting out. "Let's just ignore the troll"...awww, I can't be part of your "club"?
My "bankbook" has NOTHING to do with this. I just wanted you to understand that I'm not "stuck" with having to own just one car. I can buy a BMW TODAY if I wanted to...so there is NO NEED for me to envy one. What I don't want to do is buy a car that's just going to be a money/time pit. It's called RESEARCHING and being a SMART CONSUMER.
What I wanted is for E46 owners to show me that the problems here are NOT common and that their E46's are not as problematic as they seem. So far, only RHMASS has come forward with some useful INFORMATION...not FLAMES like Div2...MSCHUKAR brought some information to the table that was interesting only because it worked out AGAINST what he (she? Sorry, I don't want to guess) was trying to say. I'm in no way flaming MSCHUKAR of course...it's just that information given to me, once looked into, didn't make BMW's reliablilty look as good as MSCHUKAR intended I'm sure.
You know, so far, Div2 you've come to the table with NOTHING but flames and derogatory statements. So who's the troll here? You also throw out "Lexotas" like Lexus/Toyota is something bad...I guess I need to remind you that they set the INDUSTRY STANDARD for quality. Even other manufacturers, like BMW, acknowledge that. Why do you have so much hate for Lexus/Toyota? You should look into that...maybe you have Lexus/Toyota Envy?
Now, Div2, if you would like to post something INFORMATIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE, let me hear it. If you're just going to flame, I'm not even going to bother replying.
And again, the reason why I'm looking to the E46 is because I'm not particularly 100% satisfied with the IS300 (and it's not a coupé). And the Mercedes C-Class lacks enough aftermarket products and the "coupé" is just not my style (plus the engine isn't to my liking). Now obviously, if I was BIASED, I would just buy the IS300...but as you can see, I'm not.
Lexus sets the standard for reliability and service
No argument here.
BMW service sucks
I think this depends on the individual dealership. I've ordered a BMW so I can't speak from experience on this one.
BMW reliability is questionable
Looking over the links posted, BMW is, at worst, well above the industry average. I think it's safe to say that an unreliable brand today is still more reliable than the best from 20-30 years ago.
I've owned a Volvo (unreliable by most measures) for 4 years and the worst problem I've had is a broken headlight switch. As long as I don't get stranded, it's not a major problem.
-Murray
I have also done some more research and the '95-'00 BMW 3-Series is on a "reliable used car" list for the insurance companies (many thanks go out my insurance agent who fowarded me the list). Which makes feel more confident.
As for the dealerships, I hear you. There are few bad Lexus dealerships also but the great thing is, is that Lexus Corporate cares. I'm know the guys at my local Lexus dealership pretty well and they've told me many incidents where Lexus corporate got people "let go" from the dealerships due to customer complaints. That's good to know that Lexus cares about what Customers say. I've been to several local BMW dealerships and have gotten nothing but attitude (regardless of what I drive in or how I'm dressed). And from what I've read, BMW doesn't seem to care. Anyone have some personal experience with BMW Corporate "taking care" of you?
Is there some sort of reference list that lists good customer experiences at BMW Dealerships somewhere? I'd rather buy from a dealership that cares....I don't want them telling me that "it's part of the BMW experience" when if tranny starts to make weird noises. I want them to fix it, no questions asked and with no "weaseling" and no BS.
on second thought, i'm glad you stopped in, because someone with your vast bench racing experience is definitely welcome here...
-Chris
http://www.neuralspasm.com/lhurtado/ricer/
I do not come here to hear, for the 20 millionth time, the very worn out argument of "What better way for me to spend my very conspicuous wad of cash; the overpriced BMW or the overhyped Lexus?". Comparing these cars is ridiculous once you have already established your purchase criteria. I.E., "What's more important: The statistical likelihood of great service at the Lexus dealership that I will never need since I bought such a reliable car or, the statistical likelihood of medicore service at the BMW dealership that I may need because I bought a car primarily because it is so much fun to drive". Who cares?! If statistical high reliability combined with guaranteed boredom is more important to you than statistical above average reliability combined with guaranteed fun to drive, then spend that wad of cash you are waving in front of everyone's face on the Lexus. A good and rational choice, I might add, based on your criteria.
Regardless, it is a discussion for another board (bored). mp5(etc.), Go ahead and start a new topic somewhere else (or join one of the many in progress) and I'll be sure not to check there since the "My apple is better than your orange!" flame-fests hold little interest to anyone but children.
Good day,
HiC
My options are as such.
1) My dealership does upgrade cars with DINAN products. Are they any good? I am thinking about doing the level 2 suspension upgrade. Which adds stiffer springs and anti rollbars.
2) A while back the continental touring tires that came with my car got cut at 15000 miles I replaced them with Yokohoma DBS or AVS something. Meant to be very quiet etc. I don't know if it is the tires or not but my car is really shifty these days. They have the same measurement as the Continentals but they are listed as performance tires and not grand touring tires at tirerack.com. Any suggestions on what would be some good tires to move on to? Is it worth increasing the wheel size? To 17 or 18 inches?
3) The reason why I am hesitant on simply getting the 330 is I am an audiophile and I have done some extensive work on my car and it will be a pain to start shifting it. Unless the cost of upgrading the 328 is equal or greater than the cost of acquiring a new 330.
Just wanted to know what you guys think about DINAN and also are they reliable? The dealership will do it so they said it won't void the BMW warranty. Any advice would be appreciated.
1. Power windows. I don't know what wizard designed them, but they are shaky. I've had the passenger side window guide replaced twice and the right/rear guide replaced once.
2. Suspension control arms. This was replaced about 500 miles ago. I learned while braking at high speeds the pedal would pulsate, so I figured the front brakes may be bad. Nope. The front control arms needed to be replaced, and now the car handles better than it ever did before. The control arms were redesigned recently, I gather.
My front brakes have another 15-20k miles left or so, and the clutch is also fine. I've had this car up to 125 mph, and it's smooth as silk. My lease is up in August & I think I'm going for a 330Ci or 330Cxi. Later...
The other reason was fear of expensive service.
There is nothing wrong with a little pride in your work, and the Germans (and Japanese) have it. To my knowledge, BMW has been quick to admit problems (unlike Audi of the past) and fix them outright.
And I wasn't aware of the J.D. Power & Associates rankings. BMW is pretty consistently above average across the board, and beating some Japanese carmakers in the process.
As far as expensive service, I haven't had to pay a cent for any service I've received; it's all under warranty. And I haven't had much service done to begin with.
What I do not understand about BMW's attitute is the following:
1. I have the famous B-pillar seat belt anchor rattle. Early this year BMW came up with a TSB (and an improved part=spacer ring) on this problem. This so called improved spacer ring ("improved" means a slight change in the shape of the original small plastic disc) still rattles, and I have no idea even why BMW bothers to call it "improved." By the way, I had to drive to the dealer (110 miles round trip) three times to get the "improved' spacer ring installed properly. I admit that this is not a "major" malfunction. However, listening to this rattling and chirping noise about 4 inches from my left ear is a major nuisance.
2. Another problem I have is a well known BMW trademark: Rear clunk. Yes I have the rear clunk and it just is another BMW quality control problem. It involves installation of the out-of-spec rear axles on the production cars instead of discarding them. The responses I got from BMW service people on this item are the following:
-Service manager: "BMW is studying the problem, we'll get back to you when we discover what the problem is." Really!
-A mechanic: "They all do that." Doesn't this sound familiar!?
3. Now I am having problems with the wonderful BMW electronics: Once or twice each week, when I try to start the car the starter turns about a second then everything locks out (sounds like the oil burner on my boiler!!!). I have to reset it (turn the ignition off) and try again. Dealer's response to my complaint: "Could not find any codes stored in the computer." Well, at least they tried!
Once again, so far these problems did prevent me from driving the car, but this car costs about three times as much as my wife's Nubira (and Nubira has a much much better stereo and not a single problem!).
If BMW NA is listening: I hope that BMW will at least come up with a solution for the seat belt anchor rattle in the NEAR future(?)
I know that BMW will do nothing about the rear clunk.
The ignition lock-out: I am PRAYING everyday that it won't get any worse.
We are thrilled to have purchased a Jet-Black/Gray leather 2002 325 Convertible.
We didn't opt for the sport package, the convertible/coupes already come with a
sport tuned suspension (compared to the sedans), making it any more stiffer would
only be asking for rough rough rides in the california roads. Its a 5 speed steptronic
as the car is primarily for my wife. Even I prefer the available-shifting mode as my
first 1 year with a stick shift RWD car was a very tiring experience in the bay area traffic.
The car is running great and we are having a wonderful time, first 1 month, we put
only 600miles. But as the car is being broken in, our use will increase and canyon/hill
drives will be re-visited.
I read through the full 294 posts in this message board to make sure I am aware of all the
current issues with the E46 platform. 2 things I can understand about the issues:
1. As it was a totally new platform starting
1999, there were bound to be "some" flaws which
are surfacing after about 2 yrs on the road. I
guess from 2002 onwards, most of those problems
( like the "cling" noise, or thormostat issues )
are taken care of.
2. Owning a BMW implies driving hard. So BMW
owners definitely stretch their cars more than
most owners of other brand cars. Driving hard
invites frequent brake service ( needing
replacement soon ).
3. Please don't go by the sertive interval for
oil change. I have talked to sales ( BMW and
others alike ) and guess what they all have to
say, ( If you are leasing the car or want to sell
after 3 yrs/36K miles, they just follow the 15K
service interval, your vehicle will be okay, but
if you want to keep it for long, 3K or 5K oil
change is advisable ).
Even though synthetic oil holds on to its
qualities longer than normal engine oil and that
the BMW engines hold more oil in their oil pan
than other engines of similar size, its just
impossible for 1 oil filter to hold on to the
debri/sludge/dirt for THAT LONG. If you think
thats too much money, AT LEAST change the oil
filter once every 3K miles. Please do it so that
YOUR BMW stays healthy no matter who owns it
next. The service interval
indicator computes how hard you drive (
acceleration ), oil temperature, # of starts
including cold starts ) etc to compute the oil
change interval. If the indicator had a sensor
right inside the engine oil pan to check the oil
quality, I would have been bought by the
technology, but just this computation makes me
nervous. I will go on with 3K oil and filter
change, NO MATTER WHAT. Its a little more money
but I can sleep well thinking my Bimmer is
well taken care of.
4. The 5 speed step-tronic Automatic transmission
from ZF is maintenance-free, impling no need
to change AT fluid for the life of the car.
RIGHT!! The harder the car is driven, the faster
the ATF degrades ( even though that is also a
synthetic fluid ). Acceleration, idling when
transmission is engaged, heat up the ATF, causing
its life to reduce. The ATF must be FLUSHED every
30K. Not just changed, it should be FLUSHED (
with pan drop, filter changed etc).
5. Once in 2 yrs, brake fluid change, Power
Steering Fluid change, LSD fluid change,
radiator/coolant fluid change, is all you need
for your car to run for years ( a minimum
of 200K miles), without any MAJOR problems.
As this is a board where owners and others
discuss issues/problems, I thought of
sharing some preventive care measures that can
actually help avoid any issues later on.
Please provide any other preventive care actions
that can help us enjoy the BMW ownership for
years.
As edmunds put it, our car is the ULTIMATE
TANNING MACHINE.
Happy bimmering
cheers
Where is your evidence? What facts do you have to dispel what the engineers recommend for oil change intervals?
It seems that BMW did in fact do a poor job on the initial oil filter released with the E46, however, said filter has since been redesigned and is more than capable of filtering oil for 15,000 miles. That said, how much crud do you think a modern ULEV engine produces anyway? If you do the research, I suggest that you will find that 15,000 miles of normal driving for an E46 will yield less crud in the oil than 5,000 miles from an engine of just 5 years ago.
Folks, when discussing Oil Change intervals, please, stick to the facts. Hearsay and religious beliefs (ie. my Granddaddy changed his oil at 3,000 miles, my Daddy changes his oil at 3,000 miles and so do I) just do not belong in a discussion like this.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Appreciate your info on the new oil filter installation by BMW.You are right that there
is no hard evidence as yet which says changing oil every 15K is bad. If there was, then
BMW engineers wouldn't put this in their cars. But guess what, no facts will be on table
until these engines are 6/7 yrs old (70/80K+) miles....
We can stop this discussion right away if I just mention that changing oil every 3K gives
me personal comfort and a feel of reliability in my car. May be its a waste of money for some,
but for me, its a cheap insurance.
However, as you have asked to see if there is any ground to my claim, I am here stating the research
I have done so far.
1. The factory filled synthetic oil engines is a new thing. Less than 2/3 yrs old. The service interval of
15K is the highest ever by any manufacturer.
I looked at the 2001 MB 320/430 engine and it mentions a service interval of 8K.
BMW is providing free maintenance, if they did oil change every 5K, thats a lot more money they have
to spend from their pocket.
Here is a link to Mobil 1 ( fully synthetic ) FAQ page which might be of interest....
Go to www.mobil1.com , click on "Why synthetics", click on FAQs, read the answer to
Q. Can I go longer without changing my oil if I use a synthetic?
A. Each auto manufacturer develops and specifies oil and filter change requirements for their vehicles. While certain synthetic oils can give excellent results in extended oil drain tests, it's best to remain conservative with oil drain intervals. This allows the reserve wear protection capabilities of synthetic oils to cover unusual or unexpected driving conditions.
2. LEV/ULEV engines produce lower contanimants. Okay, may be slightly better. HONDA's LEV/ULEV
engines still come with the standard oil change intervals as the non-LEV engines used to.
I guess they want to make sure no matter who the driver is, and how hard/bad driving he/she does,
their engines will always be bullet proof.
3. Have talked to MB/Porsche/BMW Technicians ( Who service our cars ) and their only response was:
"Change at 3K/5K to be safe". I can safely assume that these factory trained and certified techs
know what they are saying.
I hope you understand that these are healthy discussions that can only help us and others.
Lets not take anything personal or start writing derogatory remarks.
Lets make ourselves more knowledgeable, there is always room for it.
thanks
PN
As for what the “Factory Trained Engineers” know, believe or guess at, my guess is that some of them are woefully under informed. In the mid 1990’s I was working for MBUSA here in Montvale and for about a year I had an office that was lofted above the shop floor where all domestic work was performed on new models yet to be released. Needless to say, being a car junkie, I spent a lot of time bantering with the engineers.
Back in 1996 there were several test mules (1996 E420s with the new Twin-Spark, 3 Valve LEV 4.3 liter V8 engines installed) running around (being driven under the worst possible of conditions). One of the things being closely monitored was of course, the oil. During that time, an oil sample was taken from every car at 2,500 mile intervals and sent out for chemical analysis (much the same as the owners of General Aviation aircraft do on a frequent basis) to determine what was a practical limit for oil life in these new engines. As it turned out, the cars were all driven between 20,000 and 25,000 before the oil reached minimum standards.
While I was not privy to the statistical analysis (which was completed after I left MBUSA), the engineers obviously felt that a modern LEV/ULEV engine, with a large oil pan filled with Synthetic Oil was more that capable of protecting an engine well beyond traditional oil change intervals.
FWIW, I am more than willing to bet that oil analysis is able to determine how well an engine is being protected by the oil in it’s sump. In fact, as a pilot in training, I routinely fly a 35-year-old aircraft with well over a thousand hours of student pilot time on the current engine. That said, I am betting my life that the engine in that plane is healthy, and that the oil analysis (along with compression tests and such) will tell the mechanics when it is not.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I agree that the oil might be still okay at the end of 15K, considering the larger oil pans for the new engines. But there are so many smaller parts in the engine that can deteriorate faster if the oil is getting older and still in use. While the oil will likely be fine, the cleaner oil will keep the piston top ring lands cleaner, making for better sealing down the road. Personally, I will be happy to get an oil change once every 5K. ( Look! I came down from 3K interval to 5K interval, thanks to you
Okay, I have some questions for you here.
1. Break-in!!
I learnt that all new BMW engines are factory broken in. If its true, is it also true that after they break in, do they do an oil change before shipping to US or the broken-in engine contains the same old oil ?
Also I understand that with synthetic oil, the engine takes longer time to break-in. So some cars usually break-in using conventional motor oil and then change to synthetic oil.
My sales guy told me that for the first 500 miles, keep the rpm below 4500. Thats it. Anything else I am missing ?
thanks shipo
PN
1. in the middle 70's VW Rabitts from 1975 to about 1981 had badly leaking valve stem seals. So bad that they burned about 1 quart of oil every 400 miles. As US drivers don't check the oil at every fill up, some engines actually locked up on the freeway causing wrecks and in 81 or 82 the FTC or NHTSA forced VW to recall the valve stem seals and fix them at VW expense. The seals were cheap $16 but $100 labor then. I am sure this problem was first known to VW in early 1975 when the first US traveling salesman complained about burning oil. They chose to ignore the problem and did not even change the part composition until forced to by the FTC 6 years later - changing the part composition on the newer cars in production 75-81 would have been easy.
2. In an Autoweek ( I think) magazine interview several years ago the BMW factory Quality control manager stated that the 90 - 95 ( I may be off a few years here) 3 series model air conditioners were "badly undersized" but that "now the problem had been fixed as the system capacity had been increased 30 per cent" (95 96 era models). Wow - missing the mark by 30 % was off quite a bit, but taking 5 model years to fix it was too slow - but in Europe/Germany it was probably not a problem as its not as hot as say Dallas or New Mexico.