Go back to my message 10757 about brake lights. What I am seeing is failure of the bulb and socket contacts. Had to replace the bulbs because of burned contacts, refurb the socket contacts with a relay contact file, bend them in to fit tighter against the bulb contacts and put a little silicone grease on the concacts to help pevent further problems. So far, so good. Until GM realizes there is a problem and does a re-design of the "circuit board" you refer to, actually the whole lamp holder-socket-contact assembly (part # 16525938), that's about all there is as far as a fix at this point other than having the dealer replace them with more of the same. Sure wish they had at least made the rear lights a little easier to replace, maybe with some 1/2 turn fasteners rather than 5 1" long Phillips screws you have to take out every time a tail light fails.
I have had more response to this problem over on the vag.com suv site. Several people responded with similar problems there.
Ok One i have a brake light problem also it was first the left side now the right side we will see what happens as this is my thing now. We were contacted from GM headquarters in Mich. because i wrote a long letter to them . They say to wait till the dealership i like opens and try to see if it can be fixed there if not they will see what they could do for us . Well i also went ahead and put the truck up on swap a lease and will see if anyone is interested . It doesn't hurt to try and the truck is really not as bad as some others but it is still too unreliable for me .I wanted to see if anyone got a fix for the bumping noise in the front end yet a while back there was someone with a data recorder put in to see what the problem was and i was wondering if there were any answers
With 4K miles now I had my first problem with my Envoy XL yesterday. The air conditioner compressor does not want to run. It was about 80 degrees out and I had the auto climate control set to 60 on auto, and it only blows cold air for about three minutes, then it blows warm outside air. For some reason the compressor must be kicking off.
I had my oil changed on Saturday, and the dealership either repaired or replaced my front air dam without my knowledge. I noticed it on the invoice afterwards. The A/C problem started occuring shortly afterwards. I think they might have messed something up.
perkolater, hope you find the problem. Let us know what it turns out to be. That way, we can advise someone else in the furure, and look like we know what we're talking about.
I just picked up my pewter '03 Bravada on Saturday. It has the Bose, memory package and heated seats. After putting about 300 miles on it, I really love this vehicle. My initial impression of the 4.2 Vortec straight 6 is that it is powerful, but a little noisy and not incredibly smooth. The slight roughness of this motor seems to transmit some vibration, which is evident when the motor is under load. Still, this is a great truck -- a plush, comfy ride.
I had actually been looking at used SUVs but couldn't turn down the offer my dealer made me. What really hooked me was the overall luxury of the Bravada.
With the risk of a barrage of criticism, I ask this question.
I was looking under my 02 TB LS two-wheel drive and noted that the truck looks as if it is 4X4 ready. Could I just get some parts and plug them in and then have a 4-wheel drive??
Did you guys read that Saab is going to add a midsize SUV next year based on GM's current trio of midsize SUVs? It might be called the 9-8 and will carry 7 passengers like the Envoy XL/TB EXT/Ascender.
Any performance gain will likely be mostly at the top end 3000 to peak RPM power output. Looking at the stock system diameter of the pipe (2 1/2") compared to the two 2" Borla pipes there is certainly more room to flow exhaust with the Borla. About 28% bigger total area. Plus on the stock system, the 2 1/2" pipe gets squished down to fit over and clear the rear suspension so that restricts the stock system more. Also the rear dual Borla resonators are straight though, the stock rear resonator muffler (big black can) is chambered. The Borla makes a nice fairly mellow different sound that wasn't there before. Installation and tweaking time was about 1 hour after trying for another hour to get the old system off in one piece. Finally gave up and cut it a few inches behind the main muffler. And add 1/2 hour for an unexpected trip to the hardware store to buy some s/s nuts, bolts, and washers that Borla apparently figured weren't necessary to supply, to bolt up the cat to the Borla muffler flanges. Three days later, and Borla still has not answered my email concerning this. But overall a super high quality, well designed system. Noticed a R&D modification notation on my parts sheet that they increased the wall thickness of the tips from .035" to .049" after 11/14/02, so they have made an improvement since this system first came out.
I would be interested in your comments about the Jet chip you added. (About to give up on HyperTech coming out with a Power Programmer for these)
Okay, 03 EXT V8 with 5000 miles and I have my first problem. #%*&@!!!!!
When the truck switches from 1st to 2nd it jerks harshly. This now happens in Automatic or when manually shifting the truck from 1st to 2nd. If I start out in 2nd there are no problems. I'm dropping the truck off tonight for them to look at it.
I towed the boat for the first time over the weekend and it has been happening ever since.
If anyone has any info I would greatly appreciate it.
When I bought my Envoy XL (6-cyl) I asked the sales guy about the XL with the V8 and he told me they got one in but the transmission went out on it. There may be some quality issues that were not addressed before releasing this engine/tranny combo to the public. Although I thought this combo is used in other applications, like the Yukon/Tahoe.
Thanks. I thought this engine/tran combo was used in other vehicles as well. That's the main reason I chose the 8 over the 6.
I'm glad I bought the extended warranty!
Also having them fix the front passenger seat belt. (It's way too tight on the shoulder) Drivers seat sqeaks from within the seat itself. (Sounds like the cusion rubbing against the seat belt housing) And the drivers side mirror bounces around and is tough to see out of. (The passenger side is solid and therefore clear)
Short answer - no way. Long answer - sure it's possible but you'd have to buy a lot of major parts - the transfer case, front axles, etc. Also, you'd need a 4WD version of the transmission. The computer is probably different too. You'd end up spending exactly twice as much as if you'd sell your Trailblazer and buy a 4WD one.
I was looking under my 02 TB LS two-wheel drive and noted that the truck looks as if it is 4X4 ready. Could I just get some parts and plug them in and then have a 4-wheel drive??
Being in the military, I had the opportunity to sit in a Durange today to go in the field. This is one of the few SUVs I didn't try before ordering the TB; it is too big (or at least looks like it) and it is too hard of gaz (remember that gaz up here is around $2.50 gal).
I just didn't like it AT ALL. Sitting in the back, it is extremely crampy compared to the TB, and I am 5'4''... The dash is so plain, I couldn't believe it is a $45,000 (CA) vehicle! For those who complain of the TB's poor interior design, pls see the Durango to compare.
It made me feel extremely good about my purchase. I do believe the TB base vehicle is a winner, if GM is switched on and make it a reliable vehicle. As far as I am concern, I will buy the extended warranty and accept the frequent visits to the dealer if required. This will cost GM so much that they will have to find a way to fix the line fast.
A month ago, I saw a lady leaving the dealership with a TB LT. I was looking at it before she left and could hardly close the doors. I almost told her to get it checked first, but the salesman was with her all the time.
On the other hand, I saw a LS last saturday and the doors closed flush and extremely easily. It could mean that the line has been adjusted or some are good, some not. Definitely something to check when receiving the vehicle.
"One GM official cautioned that the newest Saab SUV is not fully approved, and there was the risk it could be canceled at this late stage, just as the previous plans were."
Pardon the interruption, but I'd like to ask a question to the numerous Chevy posters.
The question is: Do you think that because Japanese automakers, such as Honda & Toyota, have gained reputations for reliability that the problems that occur within the early stages of owning a car gets down-played? (As opposed to Domestic car makers' problems being further percipitated through online forums)
This question was originally brought to me by someone attempting to reject the CR reliablity scores.
Keep in mind that when Japanese cars were earning their reputation as relaible, the internet was only beginning to form. This Edmunds forum is only a few years old from what I can see. What we need is a current evaluation of their (Japanese) products. It's like trying to convince a democrat that a republican is good or visa versa. The opinions about car reliability were formed during the 1980's, which for American cars were the dark ages (IMO). American auto makers have learned plenty in 23 years. Read some of the other Edmunds' forums. You'll see that the foriegn makers have problems a plenty. Go over to the Nissan Maxima forum and read of their engine noises. My 94 Honda Accord had several recurring problems. We didn't have the internet back then to share the problems. Now we do. Look out auto manufacturers.
"In 1994, before the World Wide Web had become mainstream, Edmunds.com's new car pricing data was first posted on the Internet through a "gopher site" that was known as 'The Electronic Newsstand."
"The question is: Do you think that because Japanese automakers, such as Honda & Toyota, have gained reputations for reliability that the problems that occur within the early stages of owning a car gets down-played?"
No question about that being true. Human nature being what it is, you're much more likely to dismiss as an aberration a problem on a "reliable" brand.
However, remember that when the major Japanese brands (especially Honda) first started selling to the states they were considered "pieces of junk." The reputation they've attained was hard earned (and deserved). And that reputation will endure for a while, even if quality dips. It's sort of like a moving average, perceptions - either good or bad - will lag the actual conditions.
Regarding the earlier question of reliability.... I consider myself a very realistic person. I have friends with plenty of foreign cars(we all do). I currently own two GM vehicles. I have owned Japanese cars in the past (Shame on me for my spoiled youth). From what I hear, read and see, the Japanese cars have similar problems to the American cars. Most of the time I see the owners put a spin on the problem like "Oh yea, the dealer fixed that, no problem." Or something else to down play issues with their vehicle. All of my experience leads me to believe there is a vehicle racism going on. One particular example is under the Pickups section of town hall. Toyota Tundra owners were out in force bashing on GM products, trolling on all threads they can. But when one person responds to them asking about an apparent O2 sensor problem, it was ridiculed as a non issue. I bring up only one of many issues I have heard an read about on the Tundra. But with any make of vehicle you are going to find alot. This leads me to my final theory... GM owners are more vocal than most other makes of vehicles. In this thread alone there are more INVOLVED owners than other threads I have looked at. It seems that GM vehicle owners here are the more meticulous owners than other threads. I generally read that owners here maintain and care for their vehicle more than, say a Toyota Tundra thread where they talk about how much better their vehicle is than another brand, or where they went last weekend.
Finally, it would appear the the American manufacturers are more forthcoming with TSB and other information than the foreign counterparts. But that is another post for another day.
This is just one man's opinion and not meant to start a flame war.
I was down to a decision between the Durango and Trailblazer. The high points for the Durango were the facts that it is a little longer, had a better standard warranty (at the time), and the options were available mostly seperately, not always as a package only. But I found that the interior was cheesy unless I sprung for the top of the line model, the ride was rough, the 4.7L V8 didn't have that much punch. With what I read about the 5.9L being very thirsty I didn't consider it. I personally prefer the Trailblazer over the Envoy due to the front end styling, but that is a personal choice decision.
Has anyone with the light noise in the instrument panel cluster, that appears to be coming from the tachometer, had anything done to correct it? If so, what was the solution?
My .02 cents. My parents have owned nothing but Chevy, Ford and Cadillac. I grew up in these vehicles and owned a 1948 Chevy Fleetmaster and 85 Blazer myself. My wife and I have owned two Toyota Corollas, an Acura Integra, a V6 Accord and of course the TB EXT. Quality (no matter what the slogans try to push) is not even close. Japan wins hands down. The gap is closing thankfully. Yes they all have problems but there is a noticeable difference in the amount and severity of these problems generally speaking. Not that you can compare the two but I currently own both the Accord and TB and therefore can speak from experience. Just to compare, the Honda has 21,000 miles on it and no problems to speak of. The TB has 5000 miles on it and is currently in the shop for 3 minnor issues and 1 major one. The reason we GM owners are more Vocal or involved in these web sites is because we have to be! I visited the Accord message boards at first but stopped after I realized they are just BS-ing over there because they don't have a lot of issues to discuss in regards to problems. I consider it to be a good thing that I have not subscribed to the Accord boards and a bad thing that I have to subscribe to this one to keep an eye on what others are experiencing. It's not just smoke and mirrors, it's reality!
Don't thank me, thank Greg (GAM), he sent me the windnoise info, I just posted it to my website. I few weeks after I got my 02LS I noticed that the drivers side door was about 1/8+ off. When looking out of my side mirror I noticed the black moulding on door just below the window did not line up. I took it to the dealer and nothing can be done unless you want them to chisel off the hinges that are welded on for some reason. Some of my wind noise could be because of the mis-alignment. I am going to try gregs idea if it ever warms up in NY
Obviously, I can't knock the quality of Toyota and Honda but I just wish their styling was at least half as good as their quality. I just can't get excited about Accords and Camrys. Am I wrong because reliability is not my #1 priority?
So what am I supposed to buy? A Honda Pilot? A Toyota 4Runner or Highlander? Dreadful styling! About as exciting as oatmeal! I do applaud Mazda and Subaru for not following the ultra conservative Japanese herd mentality.
I suppose I've meandered from the original question. Back to that - my friend's wife's new Jetta had a faulty ignition coil (there has now been a recall). Anyway, she claimed it was her fault for putting bad gas in the thing. How's that for dismissing a problem? I'm not sure if I was able to convince her that a coil doesn't care what you put in the gas tank.
I do applaud Mazda and Subaru for not following the ultra conservative Japanese herd mentality.
Don't forget about Nissan/Infiniti. They have done an excellent job in the styling department.
my friend's wife's new Jetta had a faulty ignition coil (there has now been a recall). Anyway, she claimed it was her fault for putting bad gas in the thing. How's that for dismissing a problem?
My brother's wife has a 2000 or 2001 Jetta, and I've heard him say several times that it is a piece of junk. He would rather get rid of her car than his old '80s beater pickup. At least he's not an import owner in denial.
First. let me say I like my '03 Envoy. Great styling, ride, and drivetrain. It also seems to be much more reliable than my '02 Bravada (which was a lemon). Execution lacks compared to the Japanese however. I would gladly give up Onstar, Rainsense wipers and the Travelnote recorder for tighter panel gaps, better alignment of bumpers and trim, less wind noise, and gas struts to hold up the hood.
I recently rode in a '96 4Runner with 175,000 miles. No rattles and less wind noise than my Envoy. While the Envoy outshines it in almost any category, I wonder if it will be at tight as the 4Runner at 175,000 miles. Time will tell I guess. Sales haven't suffered apparently, as GM says it's selling every Triplet it makes, albeit with heavy discounts. With a little more refinement, I think the design is capable of being "World Class".
My 2 cents, I'm currently leasing a 2002 Envoy and 2003 Acura 3.2 TL-S and I'm extremely disappointed at the Acura's built quality, my Envoy is a much better car, 12K miles and no problems. All the annoyances with the Acura such as sunroof rattle, seat squeaks, bad transmissions, noisy A/Cs and many other various noises are considered "normal characteristics" by Acura dealers and most of the owners out there. Import car owners are usually in complete denial of the problems with their cars, but they are real quick in jumping the gun about problems with domestic cars.
This problem was described by tjcishere1 in message #6496 but did not indicate the location of the frayed wire well enough for me to find the fault. Does anyone have more information, exact location (under the hood or under the dash?), or GM Service Bulleting number?
My TB turned 10,000 miles this week. To celebrate we helped the California economy a bit by ordering WAAG Front Runner, Rear Bumper Guard and the Tail light cage. Can't wait for them to arrive. Something I notice on some other Car Guy type web sites is that there seem to be local area clubs for some makes. Club B5 Passat owners seem to really get into that. Do not see any of that for triplet owners. Anybody in the western NYS area have any interest???
I hope I can help you, looking back on my paper work they found the purple wire coming off the ignition system under the dash. There was a short in the wire at the brake switch it was rubbing on the upper support bracket. hope this helps. please let me know
Title - "Domestic Lexus? GM to Remake Buick in Toyota's Lux Marque's Image"
"General Motors product czar Bob Lutz and the corporation's management team have decided that Buick will become GM's Lexus-like division.... This will become obvious, says Lutz, with the Buick Rainier, due in September as Buick's first model from the line of SUVS that now includes Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and the soon-to-depart Oldsmobile Bravada. It was indeed a drive in a specially prepared TrailBlazer that convinced Lutz and GM CEO and chairman-designate Rick Wagnor that ultraquiet and ultrasmooth is the way for Buick to go. Lutz says he told the SUV engineering team to stuff every bit of soundproofing and NVH-deadening they could into a test TrailBlazer, which he and Wagoner took for a drive. Both men were impressed with the results, Lutz says, so the decision to go Lexus-like was born...."
Wouldn't it be nice if they published how they stuffed that thing so those of us with "regular" versions could apply some of the same!? Of course, it doesn't say whether this was done on the line or after the fact.
We talked about this a while back and someone mentioned that they received a special offer by waiting for their service to expire. I didn't get a special offer, but today I did get a "special edition" of the OnStar magazine aimed at people that don't renew, with a bunch of heart-tugging stories about how it saved people's lives.
I had already decided to renew, primarily because my wife saw the bill laying around and was quite vehement that we need to renew.
Yeah, I got that magazine too. It looked like a real tear-jerker. It went into the garbage with the rest of the junk mail. Not sure if I'm going to renew OnStar after the first year is up...
He writes " It looked like a real tear-jerker. It went into the garbage with the rest of the junk mail. Not sure if I'm going to renew Onstar after the first year is up..."
I write that I am proud to say I have never used it once during the free first year. Its the most over priced service out there. I will continue to use 911 from my cell phone and pocket the 200 dollar a year subscription and use it for something more worthwhile. Maybe I can now justify buying something more practical like that Boxcar Willy and Sandra Dee sing "Elvis hits" boxed set I have had my eye on instead
2yearleaseonly: I don't know how they handle it in New York, but if you were to call 911 from a cell phone in Chicago and tell the dispatcher you were out of gas and lost, they would laugh at you for running out of gas and not knowing where you were and then tell you not to call 911 for something so lame. On Star has it's uses. Among them are non emergency, but otherwise troublesome predicaments. Most 911 centers are not equipped with enhanced 911 features which would pinpoint your location when calling from a cell phone. You could sit and rot before they found you. Recently, a woman in Chicago was abducted and placed in the trunk of a car. Although she was able to dial 911 from her cell phone in the trunk of the car, the police were not able to find her. She was found some time later. The ending was not happy. People will put $200.00 in the tip jar at a trendy coffee shop each year, and get absolutely nothing for it. IMO, having On Star is like having someone looking over your shoulder 24-7. Certainly worth $200.00 per year. Lets say you bought a $35,000 boat. Wouldn't you pay $200.00 per year for a marine radio service that relayed your location to the authorities in an emergency?
Frank P S: I do not sell or otherwise represent OnStar
Ok I'd say there's a slight difference in being out to sea and being on the side of the highway. You could of course just step out of the vehicle and walk I had on-star automatically bill my CC for the renewal. They sent me a letter to confirm this by saying since I didn't respond to the inital letter then I'm saying its ok to bill my CC for the renewal.
i got a 03 tblazer ls and im wondering do you all think the tblazer will be around in 5 or gone period? plus is it true if foreign makers like japan made autos bigger for bigger folks then everyone would buy it. last do gm make better ideas and better appealing autos than ford like our auto the trailblazer?
I never go anywhere that far alone . I am anal about gas in the tank it goes to 3/4 of a tank and I am at the gas station so that really isn't an issue . i think that the reason people don't re-new on star is the fact the it is really expensive if I were to get a better deal on it I might re-new but my cell works good for me and when I travel I always have my husband do the driving . I just think it is a little too expensive and I just put it up on swap a lease anyone want a good deal on a green TB with DVD ??
Where did they stuff the noise reducing material and where can i get it to STUFF my TB . And why should we get the junk why not just do the job right the first time???
Someone else on this board had been experiencing a very similar A/C problem that I had. The compressor would only run for a few minutes and then shut off, even though it would still be warm in the vehicle. I took my Envoy XL to the dealership a few days ago and now it seems like the problem has been resolved. It appears that they replaced a low pressure switch, part# 1132749.
Other than this small issue I'm still extremely satisfied with my Envoy XL. The fit & finish is excellent, and I have no wind noise entering the vehicle. This is the quietest vehicle I've ever owned. I still plan on purchasing the extended warranty though, as I will keep the vehicle for 6-7 years.
I think OnStar has some useful features, like remote unlocking and automatic notification of airbag deployment, but it does seem kind of difficult to lock your keys in the Envoy, especially when you only use the transmitter to lock/unlock the doors like we do. By the way, I noticed the passenger side door has no external lock for unlocking the vehicle manually. Cost cutting?
Will OnStar bring you gas if you run out or change a flat tire once your warranty has expired, or would you be SOL in that case? I think the MajorGuard plan has a provision for roadside assistance, but I wasn't sure if OnStar did.
Not a big deal but does your privacy rattle when you go over bumps? It's just annoying when I have the radio turned down and was wondering maybe I should have the dealer replace it.
Thanks for the response about the A/C problem. It sounds like they might have some QC issues on these parts. What is the build date of your vehicle? Mine is 10/02.
Comments
I have had more response to this problem over on the vag.com suv site. Several people responded with similar problems there.
http://forums.vmag.com/suvenvoy0199/
Thanks!
I had my oil changed on Saturday, and the dealership either repaired or replaced my front air dam without my knowledge. I noticed it on the invoice afterwards. The A/C problem started occuring shortly afterwards. I think they might have messed something up.
Frank
I had actually been looking at used SUVs but couldn't turn down the offer my dealer made me. What really hooked me was the overall luxury of the Bravada.
http://www.trailblazer.homestead.com/
GAM
I was looking under my 02 TB LS two-wheel drive and noted that the truck looks as if it is 4X4 ready. Could I just get some parts and plug them in and then have a 4-wheel drive??
Your considerate thoughts would be appreciated.
I would be interested in your comments about the Jet chip you added. (About to give up on
HyperTech coming out with a Power Programmer for these)
When the truck switches from 1st to 2nd it jerks harshly. This now happens in Automatic or when manually shifting the truck from 1st to 2nd. If I start out in 2nd there are no problems.
I'm dropping the truck off tonight for them to look at it.
I towed the boat for the first time over the weekend and it has been happening ever since.
If anyone has any info I would greatly appreciate it.
Cheers!
Where did you hear/read about the Saab addition to the triplet (quadruplet) family? And did you happen to get a glimpse of a picture?
I've been something of a Saab nut for years, so I'm kinda excited to see what it looks like.
Went to Yahoo! News and did a search for Saab. Came up as the first article. Haven't seen a picture yet.
And they will soon be sextuplets (Buick, GMC, Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, Isuzu, and Saab).
I'm glad I bought the extended warranty!
Also having them fix the front passenger seat belt. (It's way too tight on the shoulder)
Drivers seat sqeaks from within the seat itself. (Sounds like the cusion rubbing against the seat belt housing)
And the drivers side mirror bounces around and is tough to see out of. (The passenger side is solid and therefore clear)
Long answer - sure it's possible but you'd have to buy a lot of major parts - the transfer case, front axles, etc. Also, you'd need a 4WD version of the transmission. The computer is probably different too. You'd end up spending exactly twice as much as if you'd sell your Trailblazer and buy a 4WD one.
I was looking under my 02 TB LS two-wheel drive and noted that the truck looks as if it is 4X4 ready. Could I just get some parts and plug them in and then have a 4-wheel drive??
I just didn't like it AT ALL. Sitting in the back, it is extremely crampy compared to the TB, and I am 5'4''... The dash is so plain, I couldn't believe it is a $45,000 (CA) vehicle! For those who complain of the TB's poor interior design, pls see the Durango to compare.
It made me feel extremely good about my purchase. I do believe the TB base vehicle is a winner, if GM is switched on and make it a reliable vehicle. As far as I am concern, I will buy the extended warranty and accept the frequent visits to the dealer if required. This will cost GM so much that they will have to find a way to fix the line fast.
Richard
A month ago, I saw a lady leaving the dealership with a TB LT. I was looking at it before she left and could hardly close the doors. I almost told her to get it checked first, but the salesman was with her all the time.
On the other hand, I saw a LS last saturday and the doors closed flush and extremely easily. It could mean that the line has been adjusted or some are good, some not. Definitely something to check when receiving the vehicle.
I am keeping your site in MY FAVORITES!
Richard
Car and Driver
Here's another:
"One GM official cautioned that the newest Saab SUV is not fully approved, and there was the risk it could be canceled at this late stage, just as the previous plans were."
Automotive News
Steve, Host
The question is: Do you think that because Japanese automakers, such as Honda & Toyota, have gained reputations for reliability that the problems that occur within the early stages of owning a car gets down-played? (As opposed to Domestic car makers' problems being further percipitated through online forums)
This question was originally brought to me by someone attempting to reject the CR reliablity scores.
Thanx,
sdiori
Look out auto manufacturers.
Frank
Town Hall got cranked up in 1997. link
Steve, Host
No question about that being true. Human nature being what it is, you're much more likely to dismiss as an aberration a problem on a "reliable" brand.
However, remember that when the major Japanese brands (especially Honda) first started selling to the states they were considered "pieces of junk." The reputation they've attained was hard earned (and deserved). And that reputation will endure for a while, even if quality dips. It's sort of like a moving average, perceptions - either good or bad - will lag the actual conditions.
I consider myself a very realistic person. I have friends with plenty of foreign cars(we all do). I currently own two GM vehicles. I have owned Japanese cars in the past (Shame on me for my spoiled youth).
From what I hear, read and see, the Japanese cars have similar problems to the American cars. Most of the time I see the owners put a spin on the problem like "Oh yea, the dealer fixed that, no problem." Or something else to down play issues with their vehicle.
All of my experience leads me to believe there is a vehicle racism going on. One particular example is under the Pickups section of town hall. Toyota Tundra owners were out in force bashing on GM products, trolling on all threads they can. But when one person responds to them asking about an apparent O2 sensor problem, it was ridiculed as a non issue. I bring up only one of many issues I have heard an read about on the Tundra. But with any make of vehicle you are going to find alot.
This leads me to my final theory... GM owners are more vocal than most other makes of vehicles. In this thread alone there are more INVOLVED owners than other threads I have looked at. It seems that GM vehicle owners here are the more meticulous owners than other threads. I generally read that owners here maintain and care for their vehicle more than, say a Toyota Tundra thread where they talk about how much better their vehicle is than another brand, or where they went last weekend.
Finally, it would appear the the American manufacturers are more forthcoming with TSB and other information than the foreign counterparts. But that is another post for another day.
This is just one man's opinion and not meant to start a flame war.
Walter (gator)
I personally prefer the Trailblazer over the Envoy due to the front end styling, but that is a personal choice decision.
My parents have owned nothing but Chevy, Ford and Cadillac. I grew up in these vehicles and owned a 1948 Chevy Fleetmaster and 85 Blazer myself. My wife and I have owned two Toyota Corollas, an Acura Integra, a V6 Accord and of course the TB EXT. Quality (no matter what the slogans try to push) is not even close. Japan wins hands down. The gap is closing thankfully. Yes they all have problems but there is a noticeable difference in the amount and severity of these problems generally speaking.
Not that you can compare the two but I currently own both the Accord and TB and therefore can speak from experience. Just to compare, the Honda has 21,000 miles on it and no problems to speak of. The TB has 5000 miles on it and is currently in the shop for 3 minnor issues and 1 major one. The reason we GM owners are more Vocal or involved in these web sites is because we have to be! I visited the Accord message boards at first but stopped after I realized they are just BS-ing over there because they don't have a lot of issues to discuss in regards to problems. I consider it to be a good thing that I have not subscribed to the Accord boards and a bad thing that I have to subscribe to this one to keep an eye on what others are experiencing. It's not just smoke and mirrors, it's reality!
I few weeks after I got my 02LS I noticed that the drivers side door was about 1/8+ off. When looking out of my side mirror I noticed the black moulding on door just below the window did not line up. I took it to the dealer and nothing can be done unless you want them to chisel off the hinges that are welded on for some reason. Some of my wind noise could be because of the mis-alignment. I am going to try gregs idea if it ever warms up in NY
So what am I supposed to buy? A Honda Pilot? A Toyota 4Runner or Highlander? Dreadful styling! About as exciting as oatmeal!
I do applaud Mazda and Subaru for not following the ultra conservative Japanese herd mentality.
I suppose I've meandered from the original question. Back to that - my friend's wife's new Jetta had a faulty ignition coil (there has now been a recall). Anyway, she claimed it was her fault for putting bad gas in the thing. How's that for dismissing a problem? I'm not sure if I was able to convince her that a coil doesn't care what you put in the gas tank.
Don't forget about Nissan/Infiniti. They have done an excellent job in the styling department.
my friend's wife's new Jetta had a faulty ignition coil (there has now been a recall). Anyway, she claimed it was her fault for putting bad gas in the thing. How's that for dismissing a problem?
My brother's wife has a 2000 or 2001 Jetta, and I've heard him say several times that it is a piece of junk. He would rather get rid of her car than his old '80s beater pickup. At least he's not an import owner in denial.
I recently rode in a '96 4Runner with 175,000 miles. No rattles and less wind noise than my Envoy. While the Envoy outshines it in almost any category, I wonder if it will be at tight as the 4Runner at 175,000 miles. Time will tell I guess.
Sales haven't suffered apparently, as GM says it's selling every Triplet it makes, albeit with heavy discounts. With a little more refinement, I think the design is capable of being "World Class".
GAM
I'm currently leasing a 2002 Envoy and 2003 Acura 3.2 TL-S and I'm extremely disappointed at the Acura's built quality, my Envoy is a much better car, 12K miles and no problems. All the annoyances with the Acura such as sunroof rattle, seat squeaks, bad transmissions, noisy A/Cs and many other various noises are considered "normal characteristics" by Acura dealers and most of the owners out there. Import car owners are usually in complete denial of the problems with their cars, but they are real quick in jumping the gun about problems with domestic cars.
To celebrate we helped the California economy a bit by ordering WAAG Front Runner, Rear Bumper Guard and the Tail light cage.
Can't wait for them to arrive.
Something I notice on some other Car Guy type web sites is that there seem to be local area clubs for some makes. Club B5 Passat owners seem to really get into that.
Do not see any of that for triplet owners.
Anybody in the western NYS area have any interest???
"General Motors product czar Bob Lutz and the corporation's management team have decided that Buick will become GM's Lexus-like division.... This will become obvious, says Lutz, with the Buick Rainier, due in September as Buick's first model from the line of SUVS that now includes Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and the soon-to-depart Oldsmobile Bravada. It was indeed a drive in a specially prepared TrailBlazer that convinced Lutz and GM CEO and chairman-designate Rick Wagnor that ultraquiet and ultrasmooth is the way for Buick to go. Lutz says he told the SUV engineering team to stuff every bit of soundproofing and NVH-deadening they could into a test TrailBlazer, which he and Wagoner took for a drive. Both men were impressed with the results, Lutz says, so the decision to go Lexus-like was born...."
Wouldn't it be nice if they published how they stuffed that thing so those of us with "regular" versions could apply some of the same!? Of course, it doesn't say whether this was done on the line or after the fact.
I had already decided to renew, primarily because my wife saw the bill laying around and was quite vehement that we need to renew.
" It looked like a real tear-jerker. It went into the garbage with the rest of the junk mail. Not sure if I'm going to renew Onstar after the first year is up..."
I write that I am proud to say I have never used it once during the free first year. Its the most over priced service out there. I will continue to use 911 from my cell phone and pocket the 200 dollar a year subscription and use it for something more worthwhile. Maybe I can now justify buying something more practical like that Boxcar Willy and Sandra Dee sing "Elvis hits" boxed set I have had my eye on instead
People will put $200.00 in the tip jar at a trendy coffee shop each year, and get absolutely nothing for it. IMO, having On Star is like having someone looking over your shoulder 24-7. Certainly worth $200.00 per year.
Lets say you bought a $35,000 boat.
Wouldn't you pay $200.00 per year for a marine radio service that relayed your location to the authorities in an emergency?
Frank
P S: I do not sell or otherwise represent OnStar
I had on-star automatically bill my CC for the renewal. They sent me a letter to confirm this by saying since I didn't respond to the inital letter then I'm saying its ok to bill my CC for the renewal.
Other than this small issue I'm still extremely satisfied with my Envoy XL. The fit & finish is excellent, and I have no wind noise entering the vehicle. This is the quietest vehicle I've ever owned. I still plan on purchasing the extended warranty though, as I will keep the vehicle for 6-7 years.
Will OnStar bring you gas if you run out or change a flat tire once your warranty has expired, or would you be SOL in that case? I think the MajorGuard plan has a provision for roadside assistance, but I wasn't sure if OnStar did.
I had the AC problem that you had experienced. Replaced low pressure switch and all is well. Wonder how many of these switches have gone bad.
2 mo. of ownership and still loving my Envoy...