Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

twinrotts · June 2003

Thanks to pointing me to the Maintenance thread for my care care passion.
Now I'll never leave my computer

jr45 · June 2003

Hope the host doesn't mind this link to this story on Slate:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2084377/

onlyagirl · June 2003

I can't beat the service, so far...called the salesperson I bought the Envoy from...(his family owns the dealership)...he sent someone to pick up my truck,I live in a little town about 22 miles away...I had ordered the vinyl mats and the cargo mat and I asked him to please send them back when they brought the Envoy back....the truck was back in less than 4 hours..replaced a relay switch for the a/c...but the mats weren't sent...the guy calls me later in the afternoon and said he is sending them over asap...and he did...I hope I won't have to call again but they sure make it easy! Will keep you posted on whether or not the ac fix will work.....

barbara0129 · June 2003

I recently purchased a white 2003 Envoy. I come to discover that on a sunny day you can see spider webbing in the paint through out the whole vehicle. I brought the Envoy to the dealership and they told me that all their GMC vehicles have spider webbing in the paint. It looks real bad. It's as if someone waxed the vehicle with steel wool. Anyone else experiencing this problem? I can't get any help from the GMC representative or the dealership. They both tell me to live with it. I spent too much money to just live with it. I am open for advice.

momstruck1 · June 2003

how early are we going on the 2002 tb my ext tb was built I believe 2/02 or 5/02 . i would check but it is in the shop tonight. I just wanted to know the build dates on yours and if they were ext models. I have it in for the recall and the service eng soon light was on. Also am having them do the oil change and tire rotation . pretty normal except the SES light . I think it was the gas cap I got gas in NJ and you can't pump it yourself there so I am hopeful that that is what the problem is.

stever · June 2003

Nearby Oregon is like that too and it bugs me. Even though you can't pump your own gas, you can stand there (upwind of the fumes) and watch the gas go in and keep the attendant from filling it beyond the first click-off. Over filling is another trigger of the CEL since the excess can get into the vapor recovery system.

And I always click my gas cap even after the gas jockey is done :-)

(jr45, links are fine - we just frown on ones to other auto forums. I'd heard about that GM ad, but haven't seen any stories about it).

Steve, Host

elevatorguy · June 2003

Thanks for the info. Do the deflectors screw into holes that are already there or do they snap in or use tape somehow? Also, do they use the "bumpers" that have to be applied to the top of the hood?

Thanks,
Todd

kenym · June 2003

Other auto forums??????????

ficuss · June 2003

momstruck1, no build dates were mentioned. I would guess that if you didn't or don't get a letter from GM or Chevy that your triplet is ok. I would keep this incident in the back of your mind though, if you have internal engine problems relating to the sleeves in the future.

Frank

momstruck1 · June 2003

I was just wondering .I lease and if I get the letter I would like to have it to give to the dealership when I turn the car in Only for the fact that they will continue to cover the sleeves under warrenty for the next owner . Thanks for the info.

tblazed · June 2003

I think the new name for my white Trailblazer is "The White Elephant". Will this be the new 21st century GM equivilant of the Vega, Cadillac V-8-6-4 or Oldsmobile 350 Diesel or Quad-4? Nice to know GM will at least stand behind the engine block for 7 years, but what about us owners that keep vehicles beyond that? Value goes to "0" I would suppose. We're just SOL at that point. I still own my '88 S-10 4.3, has 96K on it in 15 years, still going strong. Looks like all that testing touted by GM was just a bunch of hype to sell us a thoroughly tested and developed engine that wasn't after all. What does the ad say?... Chevy - most dependable, longest lasting trucks for the past 20 years, or somesuch. Truth in advertising. HA!

Also, barbara0129 regarding the white paint, mine is white and there is NO "spider webbing", or any other paint defects, on my '02. Excellent paint job. Looks like a mirror. All I have ever done to it is hand wash it with Zip Wax car wash concentrate and used terry cotton towels to both wash and dry it. Can't find a spider web, fish eye, blemish, crack, wrinkle, or spot in the paint anywhere.

previousamigo · June 2003

Yes, they are factory mud flaps. If I recall correctly, you will use some screw holes that are already in the fender and will have to drill one or two holes for each flap. Trust me, it is easy. I'm the furthest thing from a mechanic. Just make sure that you have have the mudflaps up tight to the body when marking the holes to drill for a snug fit.

If you do go off road alot, you may want to check out the NON-MOLDED/flat mud flaps for the times you are coming down off giant boulders. The reason I got the molded is because of all the little rock chips on the bottom of the body.

pepper50 · June 2003

Thanks for the info. Do the deflectors screw into holes that are already there or do they snap in or use tape somehow? Also, do they use the "bumpers" that have to be applied to the top of the hood?

I have the GM deflector. It attaches to 4 pre-existing square holes under the hood. There is a little clip nut that fits into each square hole, and then you just screw it to those clipnuts. Then on each end of the deflector they have some 3M stick on pads to keep the ends of the deflector in place. (Some other brands have 3M locking pads in addition to screws that stick on the ends that interdigitate and are kinda like Velcro but much stronger.) I would suspect this latter scenario with the locking pads would be easier to remove for waxing, etc. However, there is plenty of room for me to wash and wax behind my deflector. And I, too, specifically didn't want one that required any rubber bumpers placed on the painted surface of the hood. Someone suggested the Lund; that's a good brand and design, too; there's a couple of different models though, so you may want to visit the Lund site on the web to see photos of them. Good luck!

2k_impala_ls · June 2003

Check out my website http://www.trailblazer.homestead.com/
I have the EGR in-channel vents. They cost
alittle more than the stick-on type but
IMO the quality and the appearance is 1000%
better than the sticker vents.

pepper50 · June 2003

how early are we going on the 2002 tb my ext tb was built I believe 2/02 or 5/02 . i would check but it is in the shop tonight. I just wanted to know the build dates on yours and if they were ext models.

As far as I know, the engines with the cylinder sleeve problem were built in 2001, and prior to fall of that year, and was limited to 1-2 months of build date if I remember correctly, but I'm not sure exactly which months. I believe someone said it was a problem with too much porosity when that particular batch was molded. So this likely won't apply to your build date in 2002 unless there is a new problem I don't know about. It's happened to a couple people on here, so maybe they'll share their build date with us.

iexplore2000 · June 2003

I think that I commented on the "porosity" issue on this board well over a year ago after getting the inside scoop from my father who works at the GM facility where they manufacture the 4.2L engine?

Also, I don't know how far back this problem applies, but my roomate's Envoy SLT has a build date of 12-01 and he received the letter in the mail yesterday?

Just to clear my mind, this recall ONLY applies to the 4.2L engine and not the 5.3L V-8 correct? Correct me if I am wrong, but the 5.3L engine comes from the Tahoe's and Yukons right? Therefore, they have been produced for quite some time now?

Thanks!

IExplore2000

hardhawk · June 2003

I got the letter. My Envoy was built 6/01. Have had no engine problems at all. Pulls my 5000# boat/trailer with no sweat. So, I will put the letter with my title and hope to never use it. I put about 15,000 miles a year on a vehicle and sell it on or before the 100,000 mile mark, so the letter should cover my hind end on the engine problem. I agree with an earlier post, however, it is the electronic bugs that may develop over time that worry me. I have not had a major problem in almost 2 years of ownership, but have had several minor irritants. Dealer has been very helpful, however, so it isn't a big problem for me at this time. Still love the Envoy overall.

scottc454 · June 2003

I'm not worried so much about electrical problems. They're a pain, but having a new connector or sensor put in some place is a lot cheaper then having an engine rebuilt. I'd be much more comfortable if they covered the engine until 150,000 miles. 100,000 isn't very much to me. I've got 45,000 in just over 2 years. My goal was over 200,000.
I'm hoping that it's the kind of problem that exposes itself early on or never at all.

flyersrule · June 2003

Got my letter yesterday. My build data is 8/01.

I have not experienced any of the mentioned symptoms. Although, I feel like my engine is not as smooth as it use to be. Also got the recall for the instrument panel.

tblazed · June 2003

ficuss states "Personally, I think the electronics will be a much bigger problem by then. The connectors needed for the data to pass through will by then become corroded enough to cause major problems."

After reading the 6-03 Techlink newsletter looks like the fix might be putting a special grease in the connectors.

6-03 Techlink

Interesting article about the electrical connectors on injectors. The illustration they show looks very similar to the contact oxidation-erosion-corrosion garbage going on with the brake light contacts.

Disconnecting-unplugging every electrical connector and putting in that grease to prevent oxidation might work.(what a PAIN!) I can't help but notice several connectors that are exposed to water splashing up from the front tires etc.

No more Delco Eye either. I guess they got tired of people looking at that eye "black" and wanting a new battery.

tblazed · June 2003

"I'm hoping that it's the kind of problem that exposes itself early on or never at all." I am with you there, Scott. In my case, I will run out of TIME well before I get close to 100K miles. In 7 years I will have less than 60,000 miles on mine. Then what? How do you sell a vehicle with a tainted history of engine failure. (By the pound at the scrap metal dealer?) That's my biggest concern now.

previousamigo · June 2003

Got my letter yesterday. TB '02 LS 4X4 with a 11/01 build date. No engine problems yet (a lot of other minor irritations), but I do hear what some have described as a "piston slap" when the engine is cold. It almost sounds like a mini diesel engine until it warms up.

scottc454 · June 2003

It's kind of weird. I guess I'm hoping my engine dies in the next couple years. Maybe I should stop using synthetic oil and start flooring it more. Then it'd probably die from something other than a sleeve issue and not be covered.
Oh well, I refuse to worry about it too much. If it dies after the warranty, I'll put in a V-8.

axsysman · June 2003

I got my letter yesterday.

I have over 60000 miles now, bought my Envoy SLT in March, 2001. Engine has always been noisy at startup, sounds like a diesel. Never burns excessive oil or lacks power though. Quiets down in about 2 minutes.

I don't really want the engine to fail since it sounds like they plan on rebuilding them if they do fail. I don't know if I could trust a rebuilt engine, probably trade it in if it fails.

Nice truck, this issue will probably deter me from buying GM again though, their quality is really questionable. I went through the first recall for the lower control arms and that took 3 weeks for them to return my truck, how long will the engine rebuild take if it fails?

lurker01 · June 2003

I too get that dieseling sound when the engine is cold. Is this really the piston slap issue? Should I bug the dealer about it?

Recently, my BOSE started acting weird again. I had 6 discs in and was in shuffle mode. Instead of changing to random tracks, it would just play the tracks in order on the current CD. Also, the display listed the first track it started on and never changed. If I hit next track, it would shuffle once but then go into the same failure mode again. If I turned random off then on, it would shuffle once and then go into the fail mode. I finally ejected a cd and then reinserted it. That seemed to fix it. I also turned the truck off and restarted while in the failure mode without it fixing itself. Also noted a disconnect-connect of the outputs when turning off the key (you know how it plays untill you open the door). Well, this time the sound dropped out when the key was removed and then came back on. Usually the transition is seemless. I have had this dropout effect before.
So, anyone know of a SW update for the BOSE??

tripicchio · June 2003

I own an 02 Envoy, took it to the dealer last week to have the A/C checked. When operating, in both recycle and new air, it would smell "moldy", or "musty" The svc. Manager told me they performed a bulletin, which consisted of "spraying stuff" on the various A/C parts. After about one week, when the fragerence went away, the smell has since returned. Note, it only happens when the A/C in on. If you operate the fan only, without the compressor on, there is no smell.has anyone else had this problem? If so, how was it fixed?

ficuss · June 2003

tblazed, make sure you tell the junker the engine is aluminum, you'll get more per pound. What are beer cans going for now? I wonder if 4,000 lbs. of beer cans will be worth more than a 7 yr. old TB will be.

Frank

tblazed · June 2003

Some customers of 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and Oldsmobile Bravada
with 4.2L (LL8) L6 engine produced during the 2001 calendar year may experience
cracking of an engine cylinder bore liner, resulting in engine noise, poor performance,
and/or stalls with no engine re-start. Engine replacement is necessary to correct this
failure. (don't ask where I got that...I'll never tell.. but your dealer will have this info )

pepper50 · June 2003

Hopefully your dealer did this, but be sure they checked to be sure the drain hose is draining correctly and not blocked off with any mud, etc. If it's blocked, water can collect in the pan and get moldy. Do you see plenty of water dripping underneath the vehicle when you turn off the engine? I'm not sure what your dealer sprayed, was it just fragrance or was it a disinfectant fungicide to kill mold? If it was from a bulletin, it might have been disinfectant, but I'm not sure. In a previous vehicle, I once found out I had a blocked drainage hose when the passenger carpet started getting wet.

ficuss · June 2003

I doubt any dealer has the facilities necessary to re-implant a cylinder sleeve. The original process involved cryo shrinking the sleeve then inserting it into the block, and letting it expand when it warms up. Your replacement engine will most likely be my old engine which was replaced last year, then someone elses and so on until they are all done, 7 yrs or 100 k miles. Don't think that GM will give you a new engine if yours craps out at 95k miles. What they didn't say is how many times they will change out the engine during the 7 yrs or 100 k miles. If it wasn't the same cylinder that failed on each engine, who is to say that the other sleeves won't soon fail. Will they go through the trouble of changing all 6 sleeves when an engine comes in for repair.
The internet was so boring before the triplets were born.

Frank

previousamigo · June 2003

I also had the ac smell. Now I hear my fan inside the vehicle turn on about every half hour when the engine is off. I guess this will dry out everything. This must have been the fix because I never heard the fan come on before the addressed the smelly ac this year. Will this cause a drain on the battery?

tblazed · June 2003

It would eventually drain the battery down if it doesn't finally time out of these cycles. How long does it turn the fan on? And at a slow speed? Interesting way to use the system to dry out the evaporator. I read about some other GM vehicles doing that in this months Techlink. I have never experienced a moldy smell ffom the a/c but I always run it in recirculate. Much less water to wring out of the air from inside the vehicle rather than trying to cool humid outside air especially where I live. Less dirt and dust gets in the a/c system that way too especially since GM decided not to put a cabin air filter in these triplets.

mmcgee1 · June 2003

Anyone experiencing a rattle from the ends of the cargo cover? I have a 03 Envoy with an annoying rattle from one or both ends of the cargo cover that fit in the holes on the sides. I only hear it when going over bumps, not real loud but its there. Is it just me, or is this the norm? Also anyone add a glove box light to the 03? Can't believe they don't put one in. I already added an underhood light. Any info would be appreciated.

stever · June 2003

This thread may help:

wwest "Mazda Tribute/ Ford Escape problems" Aug 8, 2002 1:55pm

Steve, Host

tblazed · June 2003

I thought the oil change light reset was addressed in a bulletin quite a while back, in that it states the light does NOT flash 5 times after pressing the pedal 3 times with 5 seconds, but that it simply turns off. Now I read in the latest Techlink the old instructions.

From the latest Techlink:
2002 - 04 Bravada
2002 - 04 TrailBlazer
2002 - 04 Envoy
2004 Ranier w/o DIC
1. Turn the ignition key to RUN with the engine off.
2. Fully press and release the accelerator pedal three times within five seconds.
3. If the CHANGE ENG OIL light flashes for five seconds, the system is reset. If the light does not flash, repeat the procedure.

That last part "flashes for 5 seconds"- it doesn't do that. At least mine doesn't. It works like the bulletin says- it simply turns off.

gam2 · June 2003

For everyone concerned about residual values of their Triplets because of engine problems, worry no more. A local dealer has an '03 Envoy SLT w/16,000 miles for under $25K. With depreciation like that (over 30% in less than a year), ours should be worthless in just over 3 years, running or not!

GAM

lkuykendall · June 2003

Got my letter yesterday for my 02 Bravada with a build date of 10/01. Looks like about 6 months of bad engines from the date range of builds so far.

momstruck1 · June 2003

well the ses light did mean nothing they ran a check on it an dfound nothing that trigged it so I am chaulking that one up to the gas cap. The recall on the plug under the stearing wheel is done so that is finished . All in all not bad. I just wanted to tell GAM that I leased it so in 2 years when it goes back it will be worth nothing to them. That kind of pays them back for the junk they put out there huh.

momstruck1 · June 2003

is the best thing . You were 100% right . I spoke with the service tech. at my dealership (works for GM drives a TOYOTA!!!)LOL anyway . I was actually treated like a respected person not a dumb woman. I must say it makes all the difference in the world. Even on the small stuff they will explain anything and if you have a complaint they handle it . At least they took the time as others did not.

aldan93 · June 2003

You hit the nail on the head, this board is kind of nuts, To actually think your engine is going to blow up!!! I drive mine like I stole it!!! Who cares, drive it hard! Take it back when there is 3-4 things wrong get the rental! So what! Its GM! A 30K truck, so what if you have to drop 4k in the engine in 5 years!! The problem with the early models was lubrication!!! The # 5 cylinder was not getting oil!!! This is stuff built in 2001! Trust me these engines are dead nuts strong to go at least 150k!! There is barely any friction in an inline 6. Also what this board does is a venting place for people that like to complain, and hear themselves. Its the same people like myself, writing these passages! The same 20-25 people everyday! It hit a pothole today! WOW! I have a noise coming from my hood. I wonder why? It couldn't be that night you got hammered and decided to take the truck up a creek bed, or the time you drove up that ski slope? with moguls. Or is that just me?

thedave29 · June 2003

I agree with you I have a 02 LTZ and drive it like I stole it also. Driving like that gets me between 14-16 in town and 16-19 on the highway, but I love its power. I have had no issues with it. 10,000 miles since Aug 02, build date of 5/02. I was driving on the express way the other day and noticed that vibration everyone was talking about in the gas pedal. Then I turned down the Pink Floyd CD in the BOSE system and it disappeared. The only problem that I know of is the "noisy" fan happens about twice a month and never lasts more then a few minutes, besides I kind of like the ROAR I get from the truck.

dardson1 · June 2003

It's been a great vehicle. Very few problems. My daughter has been considering an Envoy asking my opinion. She thinks the Tahoe/Yukon is a bit large for her and asked my opinion on the Envoy. I've sampled maybe 50 pages on this thread. In a general and unscientific way, this Trailblazer/Envoy/Bravado site scares me away. Most of the posts seem to be compliants about pretty serious stuff.
I love Edmunds car discussions. While it may not be an unbiased study.......it's a darn good weather vane. Way too many serious complaints here for me to recommend she consider an Envoy. Too bad.

mcali17 · June 2003

Not to shoot down your theory, but let me ask you this. First of all, consider the number of Triplets on the road and the number of posters you see on these boards. Second of all, of course you are going to hear of every leak, squeak, rattle and problem. That is what people talk about. Try any board, regardless of type, i.e. snowmobiles, cars, trucks, etc. Everyone talks about the problems. If no one had a problem, there would be nothing to talk about. I have over 10,000 miles on my '02 Envoy and the only thing that I had to have fixed was the driver's side mechanical door latch lever. So, I would take what you read as worst case scenerio in some cases. I am sure there are many out there that have not experienced the problems you read about on these boards. Too bad we couldn't hear their reviews.

Just my 0.02.

kram18 · June 2003

In addition to the things that mcali17 said, most of these problems are with model year '02 and earlier. I bought an '03 trailblazer and haven't had a single problem with mine yet. I think that they fixed most of these problems before releasing the '03. Almost 5,000 miles and I think shes the best purchase I've made when it comes to automobiles.

lawrencew1 · June 2003

I also have an '03 Envoy with the rattling cover. Haven't had the chance to address this with the service manager, but it's on my list. I also want to add a glovebox light, I posted earlier (#9421) about the same question. Where did you connect/splice the underhood light?

previousamigo · June 2003

Tblazed,
The fan only runs for about a minute and then turns off. I have never been inside the TB when the fan kicks on so I can't gauge at what speed setting it is running to dry out the ac. Good idea to use the recirculation button so I don't have to drain out all the moisture form the irrigated corn fields around here.

tblazed · June 2003

"With depreciation like that (over 30% in less than a year)" ... The continuing rebates, 0% interest, etc., are also killing the resale value of all preowned-used cars. When you can get a new one with all the incentives for not much more than used, all used vehicle resale values are suffering. With all the incentives and dealer discount I had at purchase, it all added up to over 28% off the sticker price.

My theory on the engine warranty extension is, GM knows from warranty claims which months of engine production have been the problems, that there has been a lot of negative publicity concerning the issue, and that they gave all owners of '01 built triplets a warranty extension to reassure everyone that GM will stand behind this sleeve issue, knowing few if any of the later '01 production will ever fail. The positives from doing this should outweigh the costs to GM for replacing any remaining '01 mfg'd engines that do fail. Someone else might correct me here, but I don't remember reading of any engines failed past 6-01 mfg. And no early '02' engine failures have been reported. I hope I am right anyway.

I do thank GM for doing this - now I don't feel so pressured to spend $$$ on an extended warranty.

Still very happy with my 11-01 built '02 TB.

axsysman · June 2003

Do any of the '03 Triplets have the diesel sound at start-up? Do they feel more powerful off the line (can you do a burnout)?

My '02 triplet will not chirp the wheels on dry pavement with full throttle takeoff in a straight line, is this true for the newer models?

Just curious.

tblazed · June 2003

I noticed that when I changed the oil to 10W-30 the initial cold noise is reduced.

What rear gear ratio do you have? Originally, mine would bog when I would floor it from a stop and no way chip the tires, until I had the PCM updates done, and that's with 3.42 gears and locker. Now, after mine was done, I have much better low end throttle response from a stop, no more bog if I do floor it, and have actually more than chirped the tires taking off maybe 3/4 throttle making it move out of its own way.

My friend that has an otherwise identical TB built just a few months after mine has the 3.73 gears, had the PCM reprog done and now he hates it, says it runs worse, idles lower (550 now, before was dead-on 600) and now wants to do the almost-stall thing at idle, so beware. He is going to take it to another Chevy dealer to see if they can straighten it out. Has absolutely no more confidence with his selling dealer after this and several other issues. Another example, they had to send out his instrument cluster (3 days) after something bombed out during the recall update, so maybe it was technician error.

axsysman · June 2003

I'll try the 10W30 to see if it makes a difference, I also have the 3.42 ratio. The truck moves fairly quick after I get it going but I don't know if I believe the torque numbers published for this vehicle. Maybe the large tires and 3.42 ratio keep the rear wheel torque low at startup, as well as the 24 valve design.

I hesitate to have any reprogram done since it idles extremely smooth now and is fine on the highways where I do most of my driving. After 60K miles I am pleased with the truck and hope to go at least another 60K.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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