Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

tblazed · June 2002

This is what I refer to:

(Studies).. "have concluded that although the standard gasohol mixture of 90 percent gasoline to 10 percent ethanol could cut carbon-monoxide emissions by 25 percent, evaporate hydrocarbons would rise by as much as 50 percent and nitrogen oxide by 15 percent. Other reports indicate that alcohol blends are significantly more volatile than alcohol-free gasolines and therefore, evaporative emissions for ethanol blends are 5 percent to 220 percent above emissions for straight gasoline. The Clean Air Act of 1977 actually banned products such as ethanol. Slight increases in nitrogen oxide emissions and substantial increases in evaporate hydrocarbon emissions were observed from cars using gasohol. However, because ethanol amounted to a minute fraction of the nation's gasoline sales at the time, the EPA administrator ruled that "there is no significant environmental risk associated with its continued use."

Seems like in 1977 we were worried about another ice age too!

Anyone seen a GOOD quality, clear untinted, low-profile bug guard for the TrailBlazer??

mil6753 · June 2002

Steveb24 - yes - the loss of power is very noticeable. When you told them the symptoms, where they able to duplicate them at the shop and if so, what was the response? Could they fix it?

Within the first 400 miles of having my bravada the load leveling mechanism started sounding like a machine gun - when I took it in they said it was 'working with in specifications'. I had to firmly ask them to resolve the noise issue. I'm hoping there is a fix for this annoying noise as well.

mil6753 · June 2002

How do I know if the cross beams are facing the right direction on my 2002 Bravada? Right now if you are looking at the vehicle from the side, the bars are tilted up. Seems to me that like an airplane wing, the wind is being forced under the bar - which I am guessing is creating drag. The best mpg I've received is 15 mpg on the highway. Could this be contributing? I'm getting 13 around town.

richardcoulson · June 2002

Ethanol burns slower, which has the same effect of reducing timing. If you plan to only burn ethanol, you can compensate by increasing the timing. However, I am not sure if the ignition system on the trailblazer allows the timing to be manually set.

dshepherd3 · June 2002

Snap back the covers on the side of the crossbars and you will se an arrow facing forward(maybe)

paulpro · June 2002

Michael
In your post of your trip, you address the issue of wind noise and the flap at the end of the windshield trim.

Did you do anything to seal or firm up this piece and did you notice a change in the wind noise or do you only suspect this is the cause?

I looked at my Envoy and the end will definitely deflect and probably with a wind gust. Yet it may be difficult to seal up. Any suggestions?

Paul P

tbcreative · June 2002

Mark, you bring up a good point that I've pondered for some time. Shouldn't we be aware of where we are at all times? Of course, and I agree that some "newbies" rely on gadgets way too much. I don't necessarily need a nav. system on my truck, but it's nice that it will be included in an off-road package, showing that Toyota understands the needs of 4wheel enthusiasts better than most. When you're on a desert trail, set snugly between beautiful rocks and gorges, and you come to several trails to choose from, but only one is the path to lead you in the right direction, you have 2 options: 1) rely on your trip odometer and trail markings, or 2) check out the coordinates on your nav. system and compare them to your trail guide book. I've been doing it with a good guide book and my trip odometer, but one more thing couldn't hurt to further rule out the chances of getting lost. I mean, if it comes in a package that keeps the cost of it down, along with other things I want like the height-adjustable suspension, then what the heck. I'll take it! I have also been boating for as long as I can remember, and I can tell you that the need for finding the right trail can be more critical than finding the right direction on water. If you get lost on a trail that takes you into an area where you may have a hard time backtracking, or have gone too long and expended your fuel, you may be in big trouble. In a boat, while the fuel problem still applies, you can just swing your craft around and point it in the right direction with very little effort when you discover you're headed in the wrong direction, assuming you figure out the right one. ;o)

Of course the other daily application for this handy piece of over-priced technology is giving you directions when you're lost, or an alternate route when you need it. Now, I personally wouldn't try to do this on-the-fly, going 80mph on the highway. I'm sure some jackass would, but I hope people have the common sense to only have their co-pilot operate the system, or pull over, for cryin' out loud. With all the distractions in cars today, I really hope people use their heads and don't make this another way to cause accidents.

As far as cost, I'm not sure what Toyota's pricing will be, but I've been told by several insiders that the new 4Runner will have several option packages to try to actually drop the price a bit over the '02. I know that sounds crazy with an all-new larger platform with a lot of great stuff, but that's what they're saying. I guess time will tell...but I'm not paying more for it than what invoice is on an Envoy SLT, I can tell you that! I don't see the point in a $35k+ 4Runner. I may as well fork over the extra $ and get the Lexus GX 470 with everything on it. Or even a little more $, and I could have an H2!

johntr · June 2002

It is amazing to me to see almost every triplet model on the road with backward roof rack bars. I have a TB build date 04/01. On the bar when I lift open the release, there is a word "Front" and and arrow pointing the direction they should be. However, I was telling someone about this that had a Brevada, I lifted up the release & there's no word or arrow. It looks like GM redesigned the release because it is not as "heavy" as mine is. Without the indication of Front, I think the only way to determine if your bars are installed correctly is to look closely at the profile. I do believe from past postings that it should match the profile as a airplane wing, fat side facing front, tapering to the rear. Another way is to look at where the loop or eyelet of the bar is, it should be to the front side of the vehicle.

Hey GMDrone, can't the factories be educated in the proper installation?

John

mdey · June 2002

I just got my TB back this morning from the dealer. They installed the gasket around the license plate panel. It actually looks pretty good to me.

I also asked them to look at the problem of the windshield cowling deflecting in a crosswind and allowing wind to rush through the door panel. One way I was able to evaluate the problem while on my trip was to lift the flexible portion of the cowling up over the fender. It will rest on top of the fender. It created a bit of wind turbulence that I could hear, but it also eliminated the wind rushing through the door panel.

I explained this to the service writer at Love Chevrolet (Columbia, SC). Their repair was to reinforce that flexible portion of the cowling with a small block of foam secured by adhesive to the fender and the cowling. It now keeps that cowling from deflecting down in a crosswind. From the looks of it their fix should be effective. Now we'll find out if this is the real culprit in the mirror whistling saga. I will drive it to Atlanta Sunday. I'll report back after that trip.

I also asked them to evaluate the engine knock I hear at start up. They told me that GM has declared it to be normal. However, it is now in the service record and if it ever becomes a bigger problem, I can point to my earlier complaint.

cmack4 · June 2002

I agree... price is going to make or break the new 4runner. I just have a hard time believing that Toyota is going to chop any prices on a vehicle that shares a lot of it's characteristics with the GX 470, which from what I saw has expected pricing between $45 and $50K!

cmack4 · June 2002

I'm trying to picture what exactly is coming loose. On my Bravada the molding/weatherstrip is very dense hard. Is that what is coming loose? Mine isn't showing any sign of it after 5K miles, so hopefully they did a good job on the epoxy. In fact most of the weatherstripping was done really well on my Bravada. The only thing loose were the front quarter panel baffles.

tblazed · June 2002

Mine on my TB built 11-01 have the "front" arrows and they were pointing backwards as delivered. After reading about this some time back I took them off and reversed them. They still didn't look correct to me and I never use them anyway so I took them off and they now stay in the garage. Intresting thing is, on a friends TB built 2-02 there are NO arrows or "front" markings on his at all (just a blank space) and they are in the position as mine were originally. I think the vendor that made them for GM screwed up and put the arrows on backwards! Why else would they elininate the arrows ?

Any thoughts Mark "gmdrone"?

kgauthi · June 2002

We're about to purchase a '02 Trailblazer LS, and have been warned by some to test drive at night before purchase. They say the headlights are too dim.

Anyone have this complaint about your Trailblazer?

Karen

envoy_mark · June 2002

I have a 2 week old Envoy XL SLT and just noticed that in the back of the front wheel well (side near the drivers door) there are two holes but nothing is in them (on either side). They are in the material that wraps around from the fender, and in the black material in the wheel well. The Rear wheel well has the same 2 holes, but has bolts in them. Am I missing some bolts in the front, or are they supposed to be like that?

I only have 500 miles on it and no problem yet to report.

Thanks for your help.

sostrouble · June 2002

Went to the dealer yesterday to get the rattle in the back door fix and the tail gate license plate gasket. They told me the part didn't cost much, but to put it on, they would have to charge me for a minimum of 1.5 hour labor. Armed with the TSB with the directions included, they suddenly agreed to do it under warranty. And it took less than 1 hour. They made copies of the TSB for their files. I'm still trying to get the plastic cover for the two front seats where the bolts show. Anyone have the correct P/N? The dealer can't find the numbers. Said that they didn't exist, until I showed them one on the lot with the covers.

Thanks Tim, what would be do if we didn't have your help!!!

Debbie

flopes · June 2002

My Envoy, build date 03/02, had the racks installed backwards as well. Although there were no arrows there were the letters LH on one side and RH on the other and these corresponded to the correct positioning if you interpreted them as Left Hand and Right Hand facing the front of the vehicle.

Ended taking them off anyway. ;-)

Frank

mtrammell · June 2002

Why else would they elininate the arrows ?

*******************

So that we can't take it back to the dealer and show them that they are pointed in the wrong direction. {:-)

edl55347 · June 2002

sostrouble -- I was able to get the seat bracket covers at no cost a while back with no questions asked. I would suggest finding a vehicle on the lot with them on and point it out to them. There is a part number for them, I will see if I have a part number.

kgauthi · June 2002

Can any Trailblazer owner respond to the concern about Tblazer's headlights being too dim.

Any comments from current owners would be great!!

We may buy one tomorrow and this is a concern I just heard about.

karen

cmack4 · June 2002

I have a bravada, and the headlights are anything but dim! They're some of the best factory lights (other than HID) that I've seen. I think this problem was addressed a while back here. IIRC, it was a problem on certain vehicles because the headlights were not properly aimed (up to high versus on the road). Hope this helps.

mtrammell · June 2002

I have a one month old TB and the headlights are NOT "dim" by any means. According to the specs, they are Halogen.

pauleul · June 2002

I own an Envoy, not a TB, however as one who has read all 6000 plus posts on this board I don't recall any complaints about the headlights being dim. tlauro did upgrade his bulbs but also stated stock lights were good. He just likes to mess with everything and tweak for perfection. Check out his site for everything you ever wanted to know about the TB (and other triplets).

http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/1-main-page.html

Trust me, we owners here have picked apart the triplets right down to the nats @$$. If dim lights were a problem, there would be MANY posts on the topic.

My guess would be someone has a TB with the headlights out of adjustment and thinks the problem is they are dim.

Go for it and buy that TB! These trucks are great (yes there have been a number of problems experienced by a number of owners) but overall, GREAT.

If you like great sounding music, don't pass up the Boss stereo. As others have stated, it is awesome!

Just over 3000 on my Envoy and no problems (other than that original gasket around the license plate pocket on the tailgate).

ENJOY

ajmrn30 · June 2002

Envoy_Mark

My Envoy is just like yours. In fact, I noticed this (holes in the fender that wraps into the wheel well) on ALL of the Envoys prior to purchasing mine. It was something that I noticed almost immediately, but thought it was definitely something I could live with.

My White SLT is two weeks old as well. I'm lovin it! So far, no problems.

Good luck with yours.

Anthony

edl55347 · June 2002

The part number for the seat bracket cover is 15073335. I have the dark pewter interior, so if you have the tan interior, it will be a slightly different part number. I was able to get these at no cost.

tlauro · June 2002

Hey there all!

I was catching up on the posts and saw the light question. By no means are the stock bulbs dim. In fact they are brighter than either of my other cars a Grand Prix and Alero.

I replaced them with aftermarket lights as I like a bright "white" color. The replacements are noticably whiter in color and seem to illuminate the road better as in showing more details of things.

Even my wife commented on how the bright lights (which I decided later to leave stock) are yellow compared to my standard lights. That's the difference. Noticably yellow vs white when compared side by side. However, not at all poor when left stock.

Please don't get any cheap aftermarket HID look-a-like Blue Bulbs. Those are not at all good and blue light is not only illegal in many areas, it's much worse for night driving.

Let me know if you have any questions. Happy to help. Email is best as I've been busy and am not able to catch all the posts here in time.

http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/piaa-headlight-stuff/piaa-mod.htm

couimet · June 2002

I don't own a TB or Envoy or Bravada but, could the problem be that those complaining of lights being too dim are driving with only the daytime running lights on? Not only are they dim but there are no tailights on either.

I realize these three have auto headlights but the auto headlights system may need to be turned on ...

sostrouble · June 2002

Thanks Ed, I will call the dealer first thing Monday. I have the light pewter, but maybe they can find it alittle easier. It may be the same color since the part is on the floor.

I showed them one on the lot with the covers, and they said they would give them to me for free, they just didn't know the P/N to order them. It was strange, that only about 1/2 on the lot had them.

ajmrn30 · June 2002

Can someone explain to me what this is so I can check to see if this is something missing in my Envoy?

Also, does everyone agree on the way the crossbars for the luggage rack should be directed... with the loop or eyelet towards the front of the vehicle. Mine do not have an arrow or the word front so I would really like a definitive answer.

Thanks!
Anthony

pepper50 · June 2002

ajmm30 wrote:
Can someone explain to me what this is so I can check to see if this is something missing in my Envoy?

They are small plastic covers on the floorboard that fit on the "feet" of the seats to hide the bolts to the floor. Each seat has 4--one at each corner. They are about 3"x2" in size. All were present on my Envoy. I think it is mostly TB's that have some missing. If a TB owner spots the covers on a dealer's lot, I'd ask the dealer to give you one off of that vehicle, and let him worry about getting another one.

mrau · June 2002

...Here is a photo of the roof rack on an Envoy that has the "FRONT" arrow. (this was posted in March, but here it is again.)

mrau · June 2002

.. Here is another photo so you can tell from the ground how the luggage racks should look.

;

tidester · June 2002

mike,

You're supposed to position yourself so your reflection doesn't show up in the windows! ;-)

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

john9907 · June 2002

Does anyone have any experience with a rattle in the rear passenger door. I have an 02 Bravada that seems to have suddenly developed a rattle. I think it is the passenger rear door, but it could be the front one.

mlauricella · June 2002

Well, mine are on backwards...Ill be damned..

ficuss · June 2002

Just completed a short 1100 mile round trip. There are now 2 things I would like to have. (1) steering wheel controls for the cruise control. Since nearly all triplet functions are software controlled, I think the engineers can write new software enabling the buttons on the steering wheel to control the cruise control if wanted. I have yet to use them to control fan speed and temperature. Cruise control functions would be more useful. (2) Since this car is so smart, it should be able to detect when you are in an uphill situation and not go into overdrive. Going 70 mph uphill the tach is at 2k rpm and unless you downshift, you will be passed by semis, as I was. Other than that, the trip was uneventful car wise. Mileage was 19.3 and seemed to drop when I left Chicago and used pure gas with no cornahol.
Most other cars on the way were in my rear view mirror most of the time.

Frank

paisan · June 2002

I 2nd the opinion that it's the people driving with only the DRLs on. I've been in front of a few Envoy/TB/Bravadas and the lights were quite bright. The twilight test drive beared out that they were excellent as far as putting light on the road as well.

-mike

scottc454 · June 2002

It's not possible to drive "with only the DRLs on" at night. The light sensor will detect when it gets dark and will turn on the normal headlights.

You'd know if it didn't because the intrument panel lights wouldn't come on. Also, I don't believe the taillights are on with the DRL's so that would be a bad thing.

paisan · June 2002

You'd be very suprised at how many people I see driving w/o their headlights @ night! I'll be driving along and see a car w/o their tail lights then I'll get next to them and notice thier dash is BLACK and just the DRLs are on!

But if they are automatic on the Triplets that is good I guess. Personally my feeling on DRLs and auto-headlights is that the driver should be responsible for that stuff, instead of dumbing down our society.

-mike

tidester · June 2002

Personally my feeling on DRLs and auto-headlights is that the driver should be responsible for that stuff, instead of dumbing down our society.

Yes - kinda reminds me of the switch to automatic transmissions ... ! ;-)

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

rj123456 · June 2002

Just hitting the 3K mark on the XL and other than the sustained lower MPG than expected (rating is 15, I'm getting around 13.1) no other problems so far...

Wondering if anyone has suggestions on where to purchase additional DVD headphones. If I'm on a long trip there may be more than 2 takers for the movie!

tblazed · July 2002

I would like 1) that the automatic headlights would stay OFF until you start the engine regardless whether you have the parking brake set or not. Contrary to what the owners manual says, mine come on as soon as I put the key in and turn it to run before start. I get tired of pulling up the parking brake handle in the garage just to keep the lights off during start 2) Ussuns here in the USA where DRLs are not required by law should be able to turn off the DRLs permanently if we so desire. I am sure I will wear the painted-on symbol off the dome override button pushing it 4 times every time I want to turn off the DRLs.

previousamigo · July 2002

I just got back from a 700 mile round trip and noticed a low sounding rumble in the suspension while traveling 75mph on the interstate in my TB. The rumble would last two seconds and then be gone for two seconds. It did this the entire trip and did not matter if the surface was cement or blacktop. I am going to check the tire pressures again and see if I can duplicate before I take it back to the dealer again. The suspension is also squeaking over small bumps in town now. Has anyone else experience this on/off low rumble? It is loud and unconfortable in the seat.

The front passenger side door lock won't work now. When I try to lock the entire vehicle that door does nothing and when it is opened the alarm goes off.

I am also getting a squeak in the area near the passenger side air bag compartment. I took everything out of the glove box but the squeak sounds like it is inside the air bag compartment.

Forth trip back to the dealer in 7 months of ownership. Wishin' I had the Bose stereo to hide the squeaks, rattles, and rumbles.

previousamigo · July 2002

Check out Autoweek's 2nd quarter update on the web for the TB LTZ with similar problems.

blrmkr · July 2002

I had a new problem last week w/ my 03/01 28k mile TB: SERVICE 4WD Lamp, ABS Lamp, and Parking Brake Lamp Illumination following key-on. I took my TB to the dealer and after working w/ Chevrolet Technical Assistance, a wire to the front axle actuator was chaffed at near the A/C compressor at the firewall. This wire was spliced and tied back from the problem spot.

I made a stop on the way home from the dealer and the Lamps mentioned above all came on plus the A/C and vent fan failed to function (not such a good thing when it's 90+ degrees!). I immediately took it back to be dealer. The next day it was found that the B.E.C. was not getting it's feed from the IGN switch. The IGN switch was replaced. I drove it over 400 miles this past weekend and did not have a problem. I hope no one else encounters this problem.

I wonder why what seems to be the root cause of the problem was not found right away. It looks like I would have had more 'electronic'-related 4WD issues down the road with that chaffed wire had it not been repaired.

couimet · July 2002

It's most likely the DRL's that come on when you start the vehicle.

And, DRL's are for safety - note how much more visible vehicles with DRL's on are, particularly in questionable situations such as rain, fog and dawn/dusk when may drivers fail to turn on their lights. DRL's may not be law in the US but frankly, they should be ...

ficuss · July 2002

I had a 2001 TB that had 3 incidences of chaffed wires leading to 1 tow job and 2 uncertain events. The first was a wire shorted between 2 engine components. When it shorted, I could not shift out of park. The second shorted against the air conditioning compressor bracket and caused the service engine soon light to come on. OnStar suggested I unload some of the weight I was carrying. ? The third shorted the turn signal switch assembly and knocked out the turn signals and the hazard lights. It also caused me to sell a 6 month old car. G M hasn't learned anything from its mistakes.

Frank

boat10 · July 2002

just take them off, if not using and your WIND noise will stop. I know, because that's what I have done.

envoy2002 · July 2002

I believe others have addressed this issue/problem in prior posts; my mother just acquired a 2002 Bravada last week and came down from Michigan to show it off to me here in Ohio. However, somewhere near the state border, the molding between the windshield and roof, along the driver's side came out and was flopping against her windshield and roof like an anaconda. Scared the bugeebers out of her! Definetly not a good thing for a senior citizens ticker. She pulled over and used duct tape (never leave home without it, I guess)to hold it in place. It's a warranty thing, but I just want to be educated when I talk to the dealer about what needs to be done (i.e. adhesive added, new weatherstrip?). She's fearful of driving back since rain is in the forecast (leaking possibility?). Thanks.

paisan · July 2002

IMHO DRLs are just a dumbing down of the people. It takes the responsibility out of their hands. I'm sick of people who are not required to think on their own! If you don't have the mental capacity to realize you need (and in some states here it's the law) to put your lights on in the fog/rain/dust/dawn then YOU DON"T DESERVE TO DRIVE! Take the bus!

< / Rant >

-mike

mtrammell · July 2002

Don't worry about the window leaking. The window is sealed independent of the molding. The molding is primarily for appearance to fill the gap between the edge of the widshield and the body. The molding is just wedged in to the gap. I used 3M double sided tape to secure mine. It took a lot longer than epoxy, but it won't take the paint off if it has to be removed to replace the windshield. My molding didn't come loose, but it made an awful lot of flapping noise above 65 mph. BTW, every GM truck made has this same problem.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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