I feel for that guy but I can't help but wonder how much research he did about the WRX and specifically the moonroof question before allowing the dealership to install it. I mean, it seems to me that there's been plenty of info about how it would affect structural integrity if the roof cross member was cut, etc. Oh well....
I think they were just mis-informed and unknowledgeable. I remember this has been the topic of discussion on here as to the effect of a moonroof, and now we see the results... I firmly believe that manufacturers know their vehicles best and that is why FHI didn't put in a roof to begin with.
The Forester has a cross member in the exact same place. I have an aftermarket moonroof, so does Rufus, and Hutch's Forester, ... no problems.
And a moonroof is available on the Forester, carrying more weight, and on the less stiff previous generation.
Sounds to me like it was a poor installation. They are supposed to add their own bracing after they cut the hole in the roof. Did he go to "Fly By Night Moonroof Company"?
There is more roof on the forester for 1. For 2, the previous generation of impreza had a moonroof, in fact it wasn't even an option, so there is definitely something different about the new one. For instance perhaps a forester based off the 2nd gen impreza would have a longer roof, and FHI could put more bracing in the C pillar and D pillars.
Well, the non-moonroof Forester has a reinforcement beam from B-pillar to B-pillar. The S Premium clearly cannot accomodate one, yet is still meets roof crush standards. Bigger roof, yes, but much bigger moonroof opening, by far.
I just don't buy the argument that a moonroof is incompatible with a stiff chassis. Think about it, that's nonsense!
Do you think that FHI purposely said to themselves "let's make a car that we can't offer a moonroof in, even though a lot of people want one, and we can do it affordably" more likely they said "We can't afford to do the moonroof correctly, so let's focus on making a top notch sports car at an affordable price"
C'mon juice, you and I know that sticking in a 6-disc changer is nothing like taking a beam out of the middle of the roof. The weight of a 6-disc compared to a 1 disc is almost negligible. The side air-bags are there as a selling point. I will admit that they may have flipped a coin/asked a focus group if they rather have side air-bags or moonroof and side airbags won out.
I also believe it does have to do with stiffness. That is why a convertible isn't as good a car to race as a full-toped car, etc.
Don't say that at Miata.net. It makes an excellent and very competitive autocrosser.
I had a Mustang, and whenever I jacked it up for service (i.e. quite often), you could almost see the chassis flex. The Miata is far more rigid, despite the lack of a roof.
But, a miata w/a solid roof would be even stiffer, and lighter than a topless one. Why do you think guys run with the hardtops on the miata? They don't run with em cause they like the extra weight, but it stiffens up the car!
See though we go back to the at what $ cost do we make it stiff?
Every auto-cross ive been too, the hard-top miata owners take the tops OFF entirely...
But dont forget that a miata is a 2 seater not a 4 seater, that large opening for the 4 seats is what creates problems with chasis flex, but with a 2 seater there are support bars in the dash and behind the seats (roll bars even) that can and do stiffen them up.
It would be on the option sheet. They could even charge $1000 for a power sunroof if the bean counters were REALLY concerned.
I don't buy that theory. Seeing the ring shaped structure, I'm with Paisan on this one (sorry ateixeira).
I've been in cars with sunroofs since my '90 Honda CRX Si (probably the best and most fun car I've owned). Since then, I've had a '94 Isuzu Rodeo LS, '98 Volvo S70 T5, and a '99 Acura TL. We traded in the Acura towards a '01 Lexus RX300 (for the wife), and I'm now stuck with her '96 Honda Accord EX. All these cars had sunroofs.
The lack of sunroof in the WRX will not at all deter me from the possible purchase of one (wagon of course).
That's OK, everyone's entitled to their opinion. :-)
You have to remember, the VDC kind of bombed when the asking price was close to $33k (actual sales prices are much lower, but the press squeeled in complaint and the damage was done).
So maybe they didn't want a $1000 option that would inflate the MSRP. A big attraction of the WRX is the price/performance ratio. But then why a CD changer? I don't get it.
Now, imagine a decontented version. Drop the CD changer and the side air bags. Heck, remove the rear seats and all the power stuff. Porsche 911 America style, remember those? Charge less for a car that weighs at least 200 lbs less and is quicker.
...and it's been done in the GC8 generation. 911 America or Club Sport is the goal. Shoot, maybe go whole hog and drop the A/C, adding a WRC-style roof vent.
Sponsor an SCCA-sanctioned spec racing series while you're at it, SoA ;-).
Let's reverse our approach for a second. Is Subaru saying that the Impreza chassis would be weak without that B-pillar cross member? What of the rest of the platform, is it a wet noodle? Why is noone else so dependent on a single reinforcement beam?
Rex - I never got mine either. I even spoke to Patti about it on 2 occasions. I'm sure she sent in the forms because she emailed me requesting personal info that is required. The membership just never came. At this point .. I don't really care. It's not like I'm going racing anytime soon .. Oh wait a minute. On the 11th I am going racing. That's in a Beemer though ..
My .02 on the moonroof. I have an aftermarket in my Forester ( ah .. make that Lynn's Forester) and I can't see where it has compromised the structural integrity of the car. I would not put one in the Rex though. Even if they could (which I doubt) patch something in to replace of the bracing, I wouldn't trust some "Moonroof" place to do that.
Don't blame SOA. Blame your dealer. My dealer has a stack of apps. The nice thing is that it starts from when you send it in, so you get a year from that time.
Heres a quick thought.. My dealer told me a reputable place in town could put in a celica style power sunroof in a WRX without touching the crossbar and altering rigidity... By celica style I mean the glass slides up over the roof and kinda sticks up a little like a spoiler. Has anyone looked into this as an alternative to a moonroof that slides into the roof?
The bar only leaves about a 4" opening in front of it. There is a pic of what a moonroof from the factory would look like on the FHI homepage in japan. The RS had the same style where it goes over the roof.
Current issue of Car & Driver has a good comparison test between under $25,000 WRX and over $40,000 BMW 330i and Audi S4. Read it to see how they rated them.
that in the S4 vs. M3 discussion and nearly got my head chewed off! I dished out more than I got though. It's been pretty quiet over there since my last post...
Way to go! I read your post over there and you were right on. Unfortunately it's like squirting lighter fluid on an already raging barbeque doing so over there... :-)
I have to say that im starting to get upset about the roof bar compaints and the stupid sun roof. Its not just about regidity, but about saftey as well...
One of the I-club members by the name of "YellowWRX", she had an accident in her WRX where it rolled like 6 times at 70mph... She was lucky to be alive, because her neck was fractured in 2 or 3 places, but her spinal cord was not damaged. (There were pictures of the car too, and the car was totaled bad, but the compartment area held up very well)
If that bar was not there, she would be dead right now...
Interesting story Steve! Another guy over at I-club put his car off the road into a tree (or telephone poll, I don't remember) avoiding a deer very late at night. The car must have been going at least 40+ mph and looks pretty bad (pictures are over there) . The guy was in hospital and bumped up pretty good but was still relatively ALIVE AND INTACT!!. Maybe one of the extra benefits of the Subaru product that many first time buyers learning about is the safety aspect of the car. The WRX seems to be holding up fairly well, insofar as occupant protection, in a few of the higher speed accidents I've read about. It is certainly a comforting thought since I'm driving this thing way too fast but my wife my be a bit dissapointed if she can't collect on the life ins policy!
I purchased a WRX yesterday and I am having a hard time leaving it alone. What a dilemma to have! I just had to have one after reading about it before it came out in March. I of course test drove many other cars, Maxima, Celica GT-S, Passat v-6, RSX-S. This car is without a doubt the most exciting thing ive driven in along time! I stalled it a couple of time at the stop light being that I am so used to Hearing the motor in my 89 mazda truck. It smooth as glass and corners like nobodies business. The stock stereo is more than sufficient for me. I live in the sacramento area and will eventuall add some nicer tires and 17 wheels perhaps and maybe a turbo gage later down the line. Does anybody have a suggestion as to who or where in this area I could get the turbo gage installed?
Thanks. Side note, my buddy spun around in his RS and smacked the whole side into a Dump Truck. He walked away without a scratch, totalled the whole right side. Glad to hear these cars are safe.
You sure about that cross-brace location? I thought it ran from B-pillar to B-pillar. That would leave room for a Celica-style moonroof.
For safety's sake, of course you would put something in its place. A shop certified by ASC should be reliable enough to do that.
I've seen a moonroof-equipped Forester rolled over in an off road trip (the suspension was far from stock), and the windows didn't even break. They rolled it back up, and it hardly looked damaged.
For the last time, nobody is debating the WRX's performance. But not everyone wants a stripped down sports sedan, either.
I don't know why you two assume that people who don't agree with you are wrong.
I think the WRX is a great performance sedan for a good price. But it's just not for me. You can't seem to grasp that other people don't think just like you. Why not?
Mike (mmcbride1): I don't ever recall saying that you were wrong for choosing an Audi over the WRX. How immature that statement would be. In fact, my last post in regards to an A4 & WRX comparo started off by saying the A4 is a fine car but the WRX was a better choice for me because ......
Save the psycho analysis stuff for someone else! You don't know me, for to do so you would realize how much of an auto enthusiast I am, and would never beat down another person's choice in the guise of them being "wrong".
Yes, I agree, the new A4 is a overweight bigtime. This trend toward two tons cars is getting ridiculous. I though the Subaru was heavy for its size but all of these compact German sports sedans are consistently 3500+ lbs.
Also, being an A4 owner, the styling of the new A4 already bores me. The last one was a fresh take....but the new one looks WAY WAY too much like a shrunken A6. If I traded in mine for one, it would barely feel like a incremental change. I've seen sketches of what the new A6 looks like and it has a far more interesting look to it. The sportiest of the Audi sedans should be the sportiest looking, not the A6.
At least the new Subaru has an oddball look to it. Not saying it's a pageant winner but the wacky rally styling has actually grown on me. Scoops, flares, big foglights. You know it ain't no Audi in your rear view mirror that's for sure.
I don't think anybody is disputing that the Audi is the car for you. It's a great car and I still recommend Audi for those who want a classy car that pleases all-around.
As that guy would say on that show "No Subaru for you!"
I have mentioned before that a WRX (sedan or wagon) with luxury upgrades to make it on par with at least the Outback Limited, will really give Audi a go. Some of us are quite prepared to loose some performance and pay a little more for a more luxurious car. I personally do not like the idea that cars are raced (that eastern vegetable) out and it puts a damper on me possibly buying such a car. One of the reasons why I got rid of a perfectly good Honda Civic was due to the modifications people make to them. The Folgers conversion especially was just too much.
A WRX Wagon Limited is what I want. Otherwise it will be the new Avant with a chipped 1.8T engine. I am prepared to pay $30,000 for a car, even if it is a Subaru.
The only reason I said anything is that baressa and strider are all over lots of topics that don't even mention the WRX (like S4 vs. M3, for example) saying how he 'toasts' S4's (which is a whole different topic, since the S4 is actually faster, if only by a little bit - he must be the world's best driver to never lose to a faster car, or he's modded his WRX but won't tell us about it) and how all the other cars are overpriced because the WRX performs just as well and is much cheaper. And then they come in here and say "keep it up, they hate to hear the truth, blah, blah, blah". I know you and others don't necessarily feel the same way they do, that's why my post was specifically directed at them.
And on a side note, my wife's next car will likely be an Outback wagon (If we were to buy today, that is). I do like Subies...
What is the point in a luxurious WRX wagon? Wouldn't that be a VDC Wagon? And as long as you are gonna "chip-it" you could probably chip the H6 VDC upscale. Also it could be had for less than 30 grand.
There was a post about a month ago that I've lost and can't relocate directing to a vendor in BC Canada that sells WRX "splash guards". Does any one recall what the name of that dealer is? Thanks.
Well, if they would stop talking about the WRX in forums where the WRX isn't even in the topic (i.e., S4 vs. M3), I'd stay out of here.
I was simply trying to tell Warp that I know you aren't all like baressa and strider.
And I know full well the WRX's pros and cons, just like I know the A4's pros and cons. Those two seem to think that the WRX is the perfect car and anyone who bought a 330xi or S4 is stupid...
Once again Mike...I don't feel that way at all. I'm well aware of the shortcomings of my WRX, afterall I did research the heck out of it before I bought it and have lived with it for almost 7000 miles. I'm actually perversely flattered that you seem to be prone to using me as a scapegoat for your posts on this forum. As I said before, I am first and foremost an auto enthusiast. I, too, have posted about the WRX in other forums only after it was brought up by somebody else. The one statement that I will make is; (as of today in the US of A) there is not a better performance and content value vs dollars than the WRX. Of course (as I agree with you), this does not mean it is for everyone. This also doesn't mean that if you disagree with me you are wrong. You are free to read whatever you want into my posts, I can't change this. I all can to is explain myself and defend my intent.
Comments
http://i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95562
We all knew there was a reason for the no-moonroof policy. Here is your answer.
-mike
Stephen
-mike
And a moonroof is available on the Forester, carrying more weight, and on the less stiff previous generation.
Sounds to me like it was a poor installation. They are supposed to add their own bracing after they cut the hole in the roof. Did he go to "Fly By Night Moonroof Company"?
-juice
-mike
I just don't buy the argument that a moonroof is incompatible with a stiff chassis. Think about it, that's nonsense!
-juice
Moonroof + stiff chassis + $$$$$$$$$$$ + light = Doable
Do you think that FHI purposely said to themselves "let's make a car that we can't offer a moonroof in, even though a lot of people want one, and we can do it affordably" more likely they said "We can't afford to do the moonroof correctly, so let's focus on making a top notch sports car at an affordable price"
-mike
The new age Impy got heavy as-is, so I still think that's an excuse. A WRX wagon weighs 5 lbs more than my Forester does!
What do I think happened? They let the bean counters ask a focus group which they preferred, then they probably flipped a coin.
Then the PR spin doctors tell a captive audience that chassis stiffness was the reason. BS.
-juice
I also believe it does have to do with stiffness. That is why a convertible isn't as good a car to race as a full-toped car, etc.
-mike
I had a Mustang, and whenever I jacked it up for service (i.e. quite often), you could almost see the chassis flex. The Miata is far more rigid, despite the lack of a roof.
-juice
See though we go back to the at what $ cost do we make it stiff?
-mike
But dont forget that a miata is a 2 seater not a 4 seater, that large opening for the 4 seats is what creates problems with chasis flex, but with a 2 seater there are support bars in the dash and behind the seats (roll bars even) that can and do stiffen them up.
-mike
I still say the rigidity argument is an excuse by Subaru, that the real reason was the bean counters didn't want to realize the cost.
-juice
I don't buy that theory. Seeing the ring shaped structure, I'm with Paisan on this one (sorry ateixeira).
I've been in cars with sunroofs since my '90 Honda CRX Si (probably the best and most fun car I've owned). Since then, I've had a '94 Isuzu Rodeo LS, '98 Volvo S70 T5, and a '99 Acura TL. We traded in the Acura towards a '01 Lexus RX300 (for the wife), and I'm now stuck with her '96 Honda Accord EX. All these cars had sunroofs.
The lack of sunroof in the WRX will not at all deter me from the possible purchase of one (wagon of course).
-Craig
You have to remember, the VDC kind of bombed when the asking price was close to $33k (actual sales prices are much lower, but the press squeeled in complaint and the damage was done).
So maybe they didn't want a $1000 option that would inflate the MSRP. A big attraction of the WRX is the price/performance ratio. But then why a CD changer? I don't get it.
Now, imagine a decontented version. Drop the CD changer and the side air bags. Heck, remove the rear seats and all the power stuff. Porsche 911 America style, remember those? Charge less for a car that weighs at least 200 lbs less and is quicker.
-juice
Sponsor an SCCA-sanctioned spec racing series while you're at it, SoA ;-).
Ed
Let's reverse our approach for a second. Is Subaru saying that the Impreza chassis would be weak without that B-pillar cross member? What of the rest of the platform, is it a wet noodle? Why is noone else so dependent on a single reinforcement beam?
-juice
whats up? did you other WRX owners get it?
-john
TWRX
My .02 on the moonroof. I have an aftermarket in my Forester ( ah .. make that Lynn's Forester) and I can't see where it has compromised the structural integrity of the car. I would not put one in the Rex though. Even if they could (which I doubt) patch something in to replace of the bracing, I wouldn't trust some "Moonroof" place to do that.
- Hutch
-mike
-mike
Read it to see how they rated them.
strider
Stephen
One of the I-club members by the name of "YellowWRX", she had an accident in her WRX where it rolled like 6 times at 70mph... She was lucky to be alive, because her neck was fractured in 2 or 3 places, but her spinal cord was not damaged. (There were pictures of the car too, and the car was totaled bad, but the compartment area held up very well)
If that bar was not there, she would be dead right now...
-mike
-mike
For safety's sake, of course you would put something in its place. A shop certified by ASC should be reliable enough to do that.
I've seen a moonroof-equipped Forester rolled over in an off road trip (the suspension was far from stock), and the windows didn't even break. They rolled it back up, and it hardly looked damaged.
-juice
I don't know why you two assume that people who don't agree with you are wrong.
I think the WRX is a great performance sedan for a good price. But it's just not for me. You can't seem to grasp that other people don't think just like you. Why not?
I personally don't like the wrx, mostly cause I like a low-end torque monster that also has awd and is good handling. But to each his own.
-mike
Save the psycho analysis stuff for someone else! You don't know me, for to do so you would realize how much of an auto enthusiast I am, and would never beat down another person's choice in the guise of them being "wrong".
Peace,
Stephen
I actually like the baby-A6 styling though, even if it is less distinctive.
-juice
Also, being an A4 owner, the styling of the new A4 already bores me. The last one was a fresh take....but the new one looks WAY WAY too much like a shrunken A6. If I traded in mine for one, it would barely feel like a incremental change. I've seen sketches of what the new A6 looks like and it has a far more interesting look to it. The sportiest of the Audi sedans should be the sportiest looking, not the A6.
At least the new Subaru has an oddball look to it. Not saying it's a pageant winner but the wacky rally styling has actually grown on me. Scoops, flares, big foglights. You know it ain't no Audi in your rear view mirror that's for sure.
-mike
As that guy would say on that show "No Subaru for you!"
A WRX Wagon Limited is what I want. Otherwise it will be the new Avant with a chipped 1.8T engine. I am prepared to pay $30,000 for a car, even if it is a Subaru.
Daniel
Maybe Subaru will give us a Blitzen. That may better suit you.
-juice
And on a side note, my wife's next car will likely be an Outback wagon (If we were to buy today, that is). I do like Subies...
If you've positively decided that the WRX is not good enough for you, why linger around and pick fights with people here?
Point being, this is going to be a pro-WRX forum for the most part. If you criticize it, you should expect rebuttals.
-juice
-mike
and can't relocate directing to a vendor in
BC Canada that sells WRX "splash guards". Does
any one recall what the name of that dealer is?
Thanks.
I was simply trying to tell Warp that I know you aren't all like baressa and strider.
And I know full well the WRX's pros and cons, just like I know the A4's pros and cons. Those two seem to think that the WRX is the perfect car and anyone who bought a 330xi or S4 is stupid...
Stephen