Great Q&A in the "Technical Correspondence" section of the new R&T (page 132). Guy writes and asks the advantage of a 18" wheel over a 15". Reply refers to a test done by R&T in the February 1999 issue called "Tire Technology Test: How Low Can You GO?". In the test, the 17" 45 outperformed the 18" 40 and 19" 35. Said "So, larger doesn't always mean better, either". IMHO, picking the right tire for the stock 17" may yield better performance than automatically assuming 18" is better. Especially for the bucks involved and the chance the offset would not be optimum. Ride quality suffers and damage potential also increases with thinner sidewalls.
My LS-V8 Sport(8/99) rearview mirror seems to be losing its dimming abiltity around the edges. Anyone else seem or heard of this problem. I'm hoping the dealer will replace with the new version(w/compass).
The article you reference sounds interesting, I'll have to see if I can retrieve it somehow. The only thing that strikes me about the quote you show is that the wheel size mentioned are mated with different aspect ratio tires than would otherwise be used on the LS. For instance, the 17" sport wheel used on the LS is mated with a 50 series tire.
Ray (packv12 on Edmunds) uses a 45 series Michelin on the 18" wheels he installed on his LS8 sport. After driving Ray's LS8 sport at Dearborn during Mania 2, I noticed his LS was a little more responsive to steering wheel input, and had a slightly firmer ride. A good trade-off, IMO, to achieve an incrementally greater level of handling performance. Ray also had the Borla installed, and I liked the exhast note as well. I'm saving my pennies (wishing it were only pennies!) to make the same mods Ray did. Maybe by Mania 3!
Thanks for the R&T article tip, it sounds like good reading to me.
I read the article stanny1 talks about and it is interesting. One additional note toward the end was that the testing was done ahwile ago and that with the latest technology an 18" wheel is as far as they would go.
One tidbit is that there are very few race cars with anything bigger than a 17" wheel on them, I think.....
I've got the 18"s on my car and I agree with lolaj42's assessment. They ride a little harder but the handling improvement is worth the slight difference in ride quality.
One other consideration is that a given 17" wheel/tire combination is probably going to weigh less than the same wheel/tire combination in an 18" sizing. Less weight usually equals better handling and ride characteristics.
After 3 days in Dearborn, I'm seeing more LS than Taurus( or is that Taurui?) around here. They're 95% non sport with chrome wheels. I counted six of them in the hotel parking lot alone. This is as many as I've seen total in Dallas. Looking at who's is driving them, the lease incentives must be doing the trick up here. As I said before I don't care who buys or leases it, as long as the car isn't redesigned to reflect this market segment which seems to be the majority in this area.
It seems that with the bigger airflow sensor and less restrictive tube that the sensor was reading lean on idle/light throttle and rich on high rpm settings. The engine was doing a sporadic cutoff in third gear starting at around 4,000 rpm and pinging under light load.
I adjusted the calibrator to richen up the mixture under light load and leaned out very slightly the high rpm adjustment and that seemed to do the trick. I have some more twiddling to do to get it to optimum settings, and I want to see how it holds up under an autocross environment tomorrow at Qualcomm stadium.
Well I just got delivery of my new LS. V8 Sport, silver with charcols interior and chrome wheels. Wow! It looks and drives great.
I have one problem I hope someone can help me with. My 59 year old knees are having trouble with the light touch of the gas pedel. As soon a I try to relax my leg and foot on the pedel, the car accelerates. I must exert constant back pressure with my foot and this is causing trouble with my knees. They hurt while I drive and continue to hurt when I walk. Is there something I can place under the pedel that will increase back pressure while still providing total or nearly total freedom of motion? I love the car but I need to do something about the pedel. Tony
it is my undertstanding for many years that auto trans are designed by their very nature, with fluid, to sit in "D" at a stop light, and that you may damage it by constantly jumping between "N" and "D"...it really is why they call it "automatic"...the only reason for having the other forward gears numbered is to hold in that gear if necessary, like in 2 if going down a long hill with mild steepness, or in 1 if stuck in snow or going down a steep hill and want to save your brakes...most can put in D and leave it there forever...
I might be able to break away to Qualcomm, Brian. The first problem I saw is that my current helmet is Snell 1974, not the required Snell 1995. And I may not be able to borrow a lid because my head is huge (Yes,I have a fat head). Even the stores fail to stock hats in my size. I may go to check out the set-up, which has changed since 1977, the last time I played. In those days, an LS had too long a wheelbase to run and I don't remember ever seeing a 4 door sedan. I just got my LS back from the dealer last night. Had it for 3 days and could never get a new wiring harness to quell the notorius airbag light. Did the 20k service and I sprang for a wheel alignment fro $59.95. They give you a computer generated report and my toe and camber were out of spec. The car really tracks well now. It even seems to have less rolling resistance.
You folks have been busy while my internet server has been down for the past week. Just caught up with all the posts I've missed & feel like it's been more like a month. Great discussion on intake mods; has anyone yet done the '02 airbox transplant into an older car?
Mania 3: Great news, Brian, I'm there. Somehow, an autocross sounds like more driving fun than a van ride thru rush-hour traffic on potholed freeways in the dark & pouring rain. That had it's moments, but, still . . .
tonyav, cograts & welcome. That's a new one; most people who have driven my car find the throttle resistance a bit heavy, especially starting out from idle. Till I got used to mine, it was hard to start from rest without opening the throttle too abruptly. So I'd be reluctant to suggest a stiffer spring on the throttle linkage. I often find the edge of my foot dragging alongside the transmission tunnel and giving me some resistance. Does that suggest anything? Honest, I don't mean to insult you with stupid ideas; a nagging problem like yours can ruin a great driving experience.
Welcome back Scottc8. Thanks for the advice. I tried that and much more but it has not helped. Several time I ended up accidently depressing the throttle at a bad time (car directly in front of me). I will work something out before I do something crazy I hope. Meanwhile, I still enjoy the car but I am sure I will have more fun when I stop hurting. Tony
I have had the same problem with both of my vehicles. Play with your seating position; don't sit too close to the wheel. Try to get your knee at a 45 or even 30 degree angle (straighten out your leg as much as possible). I believe you have a telescoping steering wheel which will allow you to do this.
I'm only 5'10" but I always drive with the steering wheel as close to the dash and as far up as it goes. It's as if the steering wheel needs more up travel. The opposite adjustment would be to have the wheel directly in my stomach and my lap as if I was in a race car - parallel to the ground. Am I supposed to drive like it's an open cockpit race car and I'm laying down?
I've put 18 inchers w/245-40ZR's on my ride and there is deffinately more road feel and way better handling than stock. It is a rougher ride but, you gotta give a little in comfort to gain alot of control and handling. Overall I'm satisfied. Brian, what kind of 18"s and tire's(ratio)do you have? Also, congrats tonyav on receiving your new baby! One question I do have is: does it hurt the LS's automatic trans by staying in a gear for too long like at 4K RPM in the manuel shift mode?
Mike, I'm remembering this from one of many conversations at Mania2, so someone may have to clarify this. There was apparently some concern during development that the transmission would overheat if driven for a long time in 2nd gear. So they took a car out and drove it extensively, at varying speeds, using 2nd only. It got warm but did no damage.
I'm guessing your fuel economy may suffer, though.:)
After trying to raise the dead (San Diego LLSOC contingent), I have concluded that they may be trying to defend the marque at the last SCCA Solo II slolom event this year at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego. I am heading out there now for morale support and to take potentially embarassing pictures. Of course, If I was driving, I would hope nobody would bring their digital camera. My previous event was Mania I and, as you know, earned the prestigious "Cone Killer" Award. My last foray at San Diego Stadium was in 1976, so I am a little rusty. But I see no reason to not join the fun next season after acquiring a new helmet (mine is not Snell 1985+). For info and results of today's slolom adventure, go to www.sdr-solo2.com
Hey gang! Just got back from autocrossing at Qualcomm stadium. I've got to say that I'm impressed with the quality of the San Diego Region of the SCCA setup. Very organized and very friendly.
For those of you who have never run a SOLO II event or autocross, gymkhana, slalom course (whatever they call it in your neck of the woods) I heartily recommend doing at least one. It will teach you how to handle your car properly and in emergency manuevers, it will show you how to be smooth on the throttle and brake, and it will show you the very capable qualities of the LS. Outside of wearing about 1,000 miles of tread off your tires you really can't damage the car. It's relatively low-speed and it's one car on the circuit at a time.
Since it's been awhile I was put into G Stock Novice class. Same class at Subaru WRX and Audi A4s. Total of 4 runs. Worst time was the 2nd at: 56.865, best time was the 4th at: 52.555. Not too shabby since the instructor that I had drove the LS to a time of: 51.146. He was quite impressed with the car and thought he could easily get the time down to the 50 second mark. No one knew about the car, at tech. inspection the inspector asked where the battery was!
But a possible marketing opportunity for Lincoln. I had at least 5 people come up and look the car over. I may have to start a Team LLSOC autocross team!
badazzls6: I am running Michelin Pilot Sports in the 245/45R18 size. No rub and they stick like glue. Very well behaved with excellent turn-in and transient response.
I would have thought there would have been a slew of Bimmers but there were only three, a 328 with an M badge which leaned an awful lot, an M5 and a 540. Both of them had times in the 50s so not too far off the LS times. Both guys had extensive Solo 2 experience so I'm pretty confident that the LS can hold it's head up high with these two.
There was an IS300 that was quite modified as well. Out here in SoCal there are a lot of pure autocross single seaters. A blast to watch them tear up the course! One thing hasn't changed in the twenty-something years since I did this on a regular basis. Back then the quickest time of the day was done with a Lotus Super Seven. This time it was a Chatherham Super Seven. The more things change, the more things stay the same.....
A big Subaru WRX crowd was in attendance. They had about 8 of them running in G Stock. Look like fun cars. A few Miatas, and definitely the hot ticket, the Z06 Corvette. There was even a Datsun 510 specially outfitted for it's parapalegic driver with hand controls. And for the funniest entry of the whole day, possibly the whole year, one of the electric Ford Th!nk vehicles in a rather dapper shade of lawn green. They were so worried about it tipping over they wouldn't let the guy run without an instructor in the car!
cdnpinhead: Don't know how the Phoenix SCCA runs are but if the folks are anything like the SoCal SCCA members they'll walk you through everything and make you feel right at home. There were no cliques at this event. And I found out that a 5-time National Solo 2 champion was driving one of the z06 Vettes.
What's the cost to run in an event, and how many total runs were you able to make? I'd be game to do this in Phoenix. Steve, do you know the particulars for next Phoenix event (where/when/etc.)?
I showed up to lend morale support and take digi pics. I had a blast and all I did was watch and click. Unlike 1974,1975, and 1976 when I played at the stadium, long wheelbase cars (4 doors) are common and have a class. You won't find big MB and 7 series there but whole bunches of 4 door sport sedans. And Brian had the first Lincoln LS they could recall. Some Mark V-VIII's have left rubber there but nothing like Brian's first outing where there was obvious curiosity. And it's very easy to play. Minimum fees and paperwork. I could have been on the course in a New York minute. And if I would have known that the Novice class was running so soon in the day (right after lunch), I could have felt less pushed by guilt in leaving my 10 and 12 year olds home alone. This was worth child abandonment. They even had free helmet rental. If you have an SCCA chapter in your area, find their web site and just go down and watch. Warning - the adrenaline and testosterone will addict you. But it's so easy and cheap to live out this fantasy. Safety is paramount, and so only two cars are on the course at one time - well spread apart. I call it a par 60 second course, with the open wheel single seaters in the high 40's and the slower ones over a minute. Brian did great on the first of four runs, and was "handicapped" by the optional instructor's weight on some runs. All the course people are supportive, addicted and the head honcha was a lady! Women drivers were not rare. The course is designed for skill, and power and speed are limited by the design. You and your LS will like the experience. Check it out in your area.
The LS V8 is classified in F-stock with V8 Mustangs, Camaros, & Firebirds, BMW 540, Shelby 350 & 500, among others; the V6 is in G-stock. What you might run against generally depends on how many cars are there, your experience/skill level, event organization, etc.
Brian: I haven't fooled with autocrossing in years, but the Super Sevens were quickest in Austin in the early '80s, too. (People probably still talk about the guy who once ran his dad's Eldorado, complete with whitewalls and wire wheel covers. )
When I was a the Tech table, the LSes were not even in the BOOK. Amazingly, there is no distinction between the Manual and Auto V-6's. I can't wait to see if there is any difference between the two on the course. I think an automatic might be an advantage because the course requires alot of shifting and that makes one a busy rower. Brian just locked his SST in 2nd and popped it up to third on the final straight before the timer and shut-down. He said he hit the rev limiter in 2nd on the first run at that point, the fastest point on the course(probably 65mph peak), necessitating the shift to third. I'm gaining a lot of respect for Mark's work as it seems right at home on the track. My test in my Manual will come. C'mon, Mike (ezaircon), let's get that hot V-6 auto out there!
Brian, you shoulda let us know you were going, we could have come out for moral support, besides, I would liked to see you have run the course. Stan did send me some nice pics though. Glad to see that you have fun and more importantly, glad to see the LS was able to crack such good times.
Yeah, the auto tranny would probably work well, but I think it would be critical for '00 and early '01 owners to have the software update done first. I'd still put my $ on the manual LS, though--the '02 manual might even be quicker than the V8, depending on the course. Sure would be fun to watch! (You have the bug again; I can tell. Hehheh...)
A couple of general notes on autocrossing for folks who haven't done it:
If you've never competed before and want to try it, it's probably a good idea to attend an event to see what it's like. (The Mania 1 event would give you a good feel for how things work; just imagine more cars, more people, more technical details, helmets, car numbers, etc.)
Contact the club that's running the event & get as much info as you can. Attending a club meeting prior to an event might also be a good idea. You generally don't have to be a club member to compete, but it'll cost more to enter.
Autocrossing is HUGE fun, but it's also serious business. Pay VERY close attention to what you're told, follow the instructions to the letter, and don't be surprised if you get yelled at. The people who run these things are usually very accommodating to newcomers, but there's sometimes one person who thinks it's his or her duty to scream at rookies. Keep a low profile, be there early, and don't cut in line.
Safety is the #1 priority. ALWAYS. Keep your eyes and ears open at all times & don't walk near the course. Helmets are mandatory for participants. They're usually available for borrowing--like bowling shoes--but be sure you know in advance if you don't have your own. Your car has to be in good shape, too. If the tires are bald, you don't get to run.
Although it doesn't happen often, it IS possible to damage your vehicle. Understand the risks. Usually the worst that happens is that you have to rub a cone mark off your fender (no offense, Stan ), but I have seen cars leave events on trailers and/or wreckers.
Leave all your "extra" stuff at home. Clear the trunk & interior of extraneous items that might tend to launch themselves while you're driving. With an LS, you probably won't need anything more than a good tire gauge and a shop rag so you can check the oil. If you take tools, leave them out of the car while you're running.
The simplest and most effective prep for a stock car is tire pressure. (Make sure you're not running 25 in one and 32 in another, for one thing. I used to run my Mustang's Michelins at 38 PSI for autocrossing & low 30s on the street, but you can usually get helpful suggestions from club members on this.)
Take a lawn chair & a hat; it can sometimes be a long (but FUN) day. Take water/beverages and snacks; don't ever, ever, EVER take beer. That's the quickest way to get invited to leave.
That's a nickel's worth of info from someone who's attended a bunch and competed in a few. (Stan/Brian, please correct anything I've misstated.) There are much worse ways to spend a Sunday!
I'm just curious.....if you still have the printout from your alignment job, is the rear camber on your car the same on both sides ?? Mine isn't, and I'm wondering if it's just my car or a common situation. Thanks.
Thanks all for the encouragement and information about finding a local Autocross event. I was able to find the Arizona SCCA chapter web site, but, as of last night, they only had the 2001 schedule of events posted. The last remaining event in 2001 is scheduled for Tucson on December 23. I'll need to check back in a week or two to see 2002 schedule. The Phoenix metro events are held at Firebird Raceway (where the Bondurant Driving school is located), which is quite close to where I live. How convenient!
Some Comments: Take some bottles of water - adrenalin dries you out. Go to a sports nutrition store and pick up some "energy bars". You need the energy but you don't need a full stomach and you probably won't have time between runs for a trip to the rent-a-can. Look for bars by "Next Nutrition" -low carb, high protein. A 75 gram bar is about $2.75. At this event, instructors were available to everyone. The chief Novice instructor rode with Brian and on the third run even drove the car with Brian as shotgun. This way the instructor can evaluate your LS and he turned in a hot time the first time out in Brian's car. I'm sure he was curious about the car. He made some comment that he was a "Solo whore looking for a date" (ride along). Before the first race there is a "walk-thru" so you can get a feel for the course. There is also a walk-thru at the lunch break. Then there is a special walk-thru at lunch for the Novices (that's you and me the first time or so). On the novice walk-thru, the chief Novice instructor literally walks you thru the course, giving advice on how to handle each turn, what the cones mean, what the surface means during the day as temperature and rubber depositation change asphalt characteristics. One change I noticed from the 1970's was the use of cones on their side as direction markers. For instance, four cones on the left pointing to the right indicates a right turn. You can tell that all the staff people LOVE what they do, especially for the pay (ZERO). Although this was supposed to be a "work and drive", I didn't see anyone from the Novice class that had to work the course. Probably because they had lots of bodies already, and lots of veterans and spouses to help out, and no time to train newbies.
Cost will vary depending on the region and the club sponsoring it. I belong to both the San Diego and the Los Angeles/Orange County chapters of the SCCA. The San Diego runs cost $20 if you're an SCCA member ($35 for the year and well worth it. See www.scca.org for details) along with the region dues of about $15 per year.
You do not need to be a member of the SCCA to participate, but considering you also get some nice insurance benefits it would be advisable.
Yes you can wreck your car. No it is highly unlikely that you will unless you do something completely stupid, like keeping your foot in it while sliding out of the parking lot track. But if you're running street tires and not gumballs, there is no way for you to turn the car over. As johnnylinc stated, the worst you could do is probably get some cone burn but only if you hit the cones and drag them with you.
If you attend an event, you will be required to work the course. stanny1, every run group had to work. I ended up working the run group after mine. It was fun to see from the course worker viewpoint, not to mention being able to find some driving tips by watching the folks who really knew what they were doing drive the course. You'll be paired up with someone who has done the course worker position before. All you ending up having to do is to reset any cones that get knocked over.
As stanny1 stated, safety is rule number 1. Everyone is watching out for everyone else and there doesn't seem to be the high levels of testosterone that you see at some of the racing events. Children are allowed to ride in the cars with you if they are 12 and older, and quite a few people did this. There were also quite a few women drivers that gave the guys a good run for their money. Several of them ran better times than their other halfs!
The hardest part about autocrossing is that the track changes each time. It's laid out in a parking lot and temporary by design. It is extremely important to walk the course so you can burn it into your memory. Depending on the event there may be a lot of cones marking the course or there may be relatively few, in which case it doesn't require too much of a lapse in concentration to go off course.
BTW, didn't see any 300M cars at the event
Brian LLSOC Prez
P.S. I'll start posting the autocross schedules on the LLSOC bulletin board in a new Racing Forum next week for all the areas.
As you know, I left before your 3rd run, so I didn't know you had to work. What did you do? I would like to stand out there on the course, restore cones and take pictures of some awesome cars. I would love to see some 300Ms as they spin out. Numerous FWD nose-heavy cars demonstrated their inherent characteristics by swinging their lightly loaded rears around after trying to over correct for terminal understeer. Quite a see-saw act. The cars waiting in line for staging is like a car show, except you can talk to the drivers and really learn about the hardware. Apart from the Ford Think, which had to have the vote for most easily flipped, there was an old VW Rabbit GTI that lifted it's inside rear wheel about 8 inches and still burned around the corners. The course manager said one went on it's side last season. There was a late model T-Bird with a supercharger and more. But I was most impressed by the RX-7 with the 3 rotor Cosmo engine with twin turbos making over 500 hp. There was every piece of go fast equipment you could buy on this car. Money no object. This race was a visual feast for gearheads.
I have been Checking into the SOLO II info for Dallas. All of there competitions ended like a month or two ago and there won't be any until March 2002. No Definite schedule yet though.
I had the misfortune/honor (depending on what side of the cat-fence you're on) of running over a calico cat this morning.
(I'm still recovering from running over the chickens...)
The little putz came out of nowhere and i tried miss it, but alas it made a very loud thud as its little head hit the lower gray molding on the front end. It pushed it back about a half inch and cracked it.
I guess cats really do have 9 lives - as I couldn't see it anywhere after that...
fantom: I also have the auto V6 and have been really considering the Borla, but am worried that it will be too loud. Please convince me to get one... I installed the 2002 airbox already and enjoy the menacing growl it gives. I also know that the upper RPM's won't have any advantage without the Borla...
Specifications Initial Min Max Final L -1.0 -1.8 -0.3 -1.0 R -0.6 -1.8 -0.3 -0.6
All #'s in degrees. So my camber was in specs and not changed because it was "in the range" of acceptability. Whether we can tell if .04 difference makes a real difference we could feel is a good question. When I slolomed my 1974 Toyota Corolla SR-5, it had the Japanese disease of positive camber as most Japanese cars do supposedly because of crowned roads in Japan for rain run-off. Bee-Line Alignment in San Diego slotted the frame where the lower arm attached, welded a washer over the slot on each side, thus making a new bolt hole that moved the lower arm outward. The goal was about 1/4 degree negative camber and max positive caster - just the set-up for max cornering. It kept the tire flatter(slip angle) under load and evened the tire wear. Most MCphrerson strut suspensions need this mod. I think it would be hard to flip an LS because of the low and centered polar moment of inertia. But you sure don't want to race an SUV out there.
Thanks for the feedback, and it looks like your specs and mine are about the same. Whether or not the difference in left to right camber makes a noticeable difference in the handling isn't totally clear to me. I would feel better if it was symmetrical, however. Unfortunately, at least at this time, there's no way to make any camber adjustments.
I am not a pacifist and there are lots of animals I don't like, but I can't understand the jocular nature of a post about hitting a cat (or armadillo or even a possum, the ugliest creature alive). I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. What was the point of posting that? Humor? It doesn't show the toughness of the car or the driver, IMHO. I think you might need help.
Do you mean that there is no way to make rear camber adjustments? And to think I paid for a 4 wheel alignment. Many IRS rears have no adjustment besides putting the car on a frame machine and applying deadly force. It's ironic that if you look under the rear of a lowly Taurus, you can easily see the adjustment bolts/cams. Of course, that's a FWD car. Joe166 - I only have the urge to run over Geo Metros. And then I get the In and Out urge for a 4x4.
According to SportCompactCar magazine, the Mazda MP3 is the best handling FWD car. Road and Track said that it has a higher slolom speed than a Corvette Z06 and a Ferrari 360. It's only drawback is power/acceleration. No wonder we saw a bunch of these at the Solo 2 race yesterday. Can't wait for race results at www.sdr-solo2.com
And, Stan, why are you reading SportCompactCar Magazine? Next you'll tell us you went to see "Fast and Furious":)
Actually, that was a short-lived reign at the top. I received the 01/02 issue of Automobile today. In a 5-car comparison test of "pre-tuned" FWDers, the new SVT Focus beat the MP3 in cornering, braking and acceleration. They were throwing terms around like "...almost BMW M3-like.." and "...Lotus of the group."
I imagine we will see this next king of the hill of econoboxes at a future Solo 2. When you look at the results of the November race, it's hard to tell what a fast car is from a slow car. Too much variation in hardware or driver talent. IMHO, this is probably a better test bed than what most of the car magazines use. The simple weave thru the cone test or static circle is quite limited compared to the road irregularities and transient handling demands of the typical slolom course. Brian must still be sleeping all that adrenalin off. Where is he?
I'm still hung up on watching "Vanishing Point". I have a Super VHS copy off digital cable but I am waiting for the DVD with 5.1. Wouldn't it be a trip to have a 70 Challenger with a Hemi that could smoke the tires at will? I can dream.
I've been busy getting info. about an Autocross School being put on by the Southern California SVT Owners Association and the CalClub chapter of SCCA at California Speedway coming up this weekend, Dec. 15 and/or 16.
Cost: $125 for one day or $200 for both days. California Speedway, Fontana, CA Parking Lot 11&12 7:00am - 3:30pm with lunch provided (Sat. provided by Roush Racing) 3 to 4 students per instructor - 60 students maximum Lots of run time and instruction! To sign up go to www.svtoa.com/socal and click on the upcoming events listings. Print out the application form and fax to (714)990-9133 to reserve your spot. You will need to mail it in with your payment to ensure your spot so do it quickly if you're planning on going.
I'm signing up for Saturday so if anyone else wants to join me there are still 10 spots available. First come, first served.
For additional information contact Tim Schlose of the SoCal SVTOA at 714-990-9059
This is a great way to learn how to autocross and with all the instructor and seat time you will get up to speed (no pun intended) quicker than going to several autocross events.
There is an adjustment for "toe" setings in the rear, but sadly none for camber. Last year, when I was ranting about the disparity between my rear camber settings, I heard a rumor that Kenny Brown Racing was going to market a kit to resolve this problem. I contacted them a few times, but nothing has materialized as of yet. It's been a while since I checked, so maybe I'll give them a call in the near future. Seeing the thread about the LS that Steeda modified got me thinking about the suspension again, so I should get back on the phone. At this point, however, it's not quite on the top of the priority list, since the snow should be here any day now. This past weekend I put on the snowtires, changed the oil and filter, and installed a new fuel filter. We should be good to go through winter now.
I posted here recently regarding anyones experience with Continental Conti CV95 tires for my 2000 LS V8 non-sport(215 60VR 16). TireRack.com advertised these on their website for about $70/tire including shipping. The tire specs on TireRacks website were Traction rating A, Temperature rating B, and Treadware rating 620. I ordered a set of 4.
They arrived at my home last night. Guess what? The tires delivered had Traction rating A, Temperature rating A, and Treadware rating 360!!!!!! The factory Fireston Firehawks had Treadware rating 500!!!!
A call to TireRack.com got me transferred to 3 people. I explained to the 3rd gentleman the discrepancy between the specs on their website and the tires delivered to my house. "That can't be!!" the gentleman replied. "Sir, I am looking at your website AS WE SPEAK" I replied. "That can't be, that is a VR rated tire!" he continued. "Sir, I am looking at your website RIGHT NOW!" I repeated. "Hold on, let me pull up that page".
"Er, ah, gee, sir, that is a typo on our website. Those tires are 20,25K tires max, anything else? by "CLICK. No apology, no offer of ANY kind to make up for their inaccurate tire specs. We have your credit card number, now run along.
I am not a tire expert, but can anyone give me a rough estimate on the mileage differences between a 620 treadware and a 360 treadware. I don't know why I ask, a glutten for punishment I guess. Oh well, lesson learned.
smwls8, you are not out of luck. If you paid for your tires with a credit card and you did not get what was advertised, call your card issuing bank and tell them that you have not recieved what you purchased and have not recieved an adequate response from the company and that you want to CHARGEBACK the transaction. They will put a hold on the payment of the transaction to the merchant until 1) the dispute is resolved and you are satisfied or, 2) the dispute is NOT resolved, then they give you back the money.
Comments
IMHO, picking the right tire for the stock 17" may yield better performance than automatically assuming 18" is better. Especially for the bucks involved and the chance the offset would not be optimum. Ride quality suffers and damage potential also increases with thinner sidewalls.
Ray (packv12 on Edmunds) uses a 45 series Michelin on the 18" wheels he installed on his LS8 sport. After driving Ray's LS8 sport at Dearborn during Mania 2, I noticed his LS was a little more responsive to steering wheel input, and had a slightly firmer ride. A good trade-off, IMO, to achieve an incrementally greater level of handling performance. Ray also had the Borla installed, and I liked the exhast note as well. I'm saving my pennies (wishing it were only pennies!) to make the same mods Ray did. Maybe by Mania 3!
Thanks for the R&T article tip, it sounds like good reading to me.
One tidbit is that there are very few race cars with anything bigger than a 17" wheel on them, I think.....
I've got the 18"s on my car and I agree with lolaj42's assessment. They ride a little harder but the handling improvement is worth the slight difference in ride quality.
One other consideration is that a given 17" wheel/tire combination is probably going to weigh less than the same wheel/tire combination in an 18" sizing. Less weight usually equals better handling and ride characteristics.
Brian
LLSOC Prez
It seems that with the bigger airflow sensor and less restrictive tube that the sensor was reading lean on idle/light throttle and rich on high rpm settings. The engine was doing a sporadic cutoff in third gear starting at around 4,000 rpm and pinging under light load.
I adjusted the calibrator to richen up the mixture under light load and leaned out very slightly the high rpm adjustment and that seemed to do the trick. I have some more twiddling to do to get it to optimum settings, and I want to see how it holds up under an autocross environment tomorrow at Qualcomm stadium.
Brian
LLSOC Prez
I have one problem I hope someone can help me with. My 59 year old knees are having trouble with the light touch of the gas pedel. As soon a I try to relax my leg and foot on the pedel, the car accelerates. I must exert constant back pressure with my foot and this is causing trouble with my knees. They hurt while I drive and continue to hurt when I walk. Is there something I can place under the pedel that will increase back pressure while still providing total or nearly total freedom of motion? I love the car but I need to do something about the pedel.
Tony
I just got my LS back from the dealer last night. Had it for 3 days and could never get a new wiring harness to quell the notorius airbag light.
Did the 20k service and I sprang for a wheel alignment fro $59.95. They give you a computer generated report and my toe and camber were out of spec. The car really tracks well now. It even seems to have less rolling resistance.
Mania 3: Great news, Brian, I'm there. Somehow, an autocross sounds like more driving fun than a van ride thru rush-hour traffic on potholed freeways in the dark & pouring rain. That had it's moments, but, still . . .
tonyav, cograts & welcome. That's a new one; most people who have driven my car find the throttle resistance a bit heavy, especially starting out from idle. Till I got used to mine, it was hard to start from rest without opening the throttle too abruptly. So I'd be reluctant to suggest a stiffer spring on the throttle linkage. I often find the edge of my foot dragging alongside the transmission tunnel and giving me some resistance. Does that suggest anything? Honest, I don't mean to insult you with stupid ideas; a nagging problem like yours can ruin a great driving experience.
Scott
LLSOC Member
Tony
Good Luck---it's helped me.
Brian, what kind of 18"s and tire's(ratio)do you have? Also, congrats tonyav on receiving your new baby! One question I do have is: does it hurt the LS's automatic trans by staying in a gear for too long like at 4K RPM in the manuel shift mode?
Mike
I'm guessing your fuel economy may suffer, though.:)
Scott
LLSOC Member
Next, you won't hurt anything (except fuel economy!) by holding it in gear at any RPM.
Mark
For those of you who have never run a SOLO II event or autocross, gymkhana, slalom course (whatever they call it in your neck of the woods) I heartily recommend doing at least one. It will teach you how to handle your car properly and in emergency manuevers, it will show you how to be smooth on the throttle and brake, and it will show you the very capable qualities of the LS. Outside of wearing about 1,000 miles of tread off your tires you really can't damage the car. It's relatively low-speed and it's one car on the circuit at a time.
Since it's been awhile I was put into G Stock Novice class. Same class at Subaru WRX and Audi A4s. Total of 4 runs. Worst time was the 2nd at: 56.865, best time was the 4th at: 52.555. Not too shabby since the instructor that I had drove the LS to a time of: 51.146. He was quite impressed with the car and thought he could easily get the time down to the 50 second mark. No one knew about the car, at tech. inspection the inspector asked where the battery was!
But a possible marketing opportunity for Lincoln. I had at least 5 people come up and look the car over. I may have to start a Team LLSOC autocross team!
badazzls6: I am running Michelin Pilot Sports in the 245/45R18 size. No rub and they stick like glue. Very well behaved with excellent turn-in and transient response.
Brian
LLSOC Prez
If I had bigger b**** and better faith in myself (the car is fine, I'm pretty sure), I'd be competing monthly here in Phoenix -- three of my kids do.
What else was in the field? Anyway, keep us posted.
There was an IS300 that was quite modified as well. Out here in SoCal there are a lot of pure autocross single seaters. A blast to watch them tear up the course! One thing hasn't changed in the twenty-something years since I did this on a regular basis. Back then the quickest time of the day was done with a Lotus Super Seven. This time it was a Chatherham Super Seven. The more things change, the more things stay the same.....
A big Subaru WRX crowd was in attendance. They had about 8 of them running in G Stock. Look like fun cars. A few Miatas, and definitely the hot ticket, the Z06 Corvette. There was even a Datsun 510 specially outfitted for it's parapalegic driver with hand controls. And for the funniest entry of the whole day, possibly the whole year, one of the electric Ford Th!nk vehicles in a rather dapper shade of lawn green. They were so worried about it tipping over they wouldn't let the guy run without an instructor in the car!
cdnpinhead: Don't know how the Phoenix SCCA runs are but if the folks are anything like the SoCal SCCA members they'll walk you through everything and make you feel right at home. There were no cliques at this event. And I found out that a 5-time National Solo 2 champion was driving one of the z06 Vettes.
What's the cost to run in an event, and how many total runs were you able to make? I'd be game to do this in Phoenix. Steve, do you know the particulars for next Phoenix event (where/when/etc.)?
And it's very easy to play. Minimum fees and paperwork. I could have been on the course in a New York minute. And if I would have known that the Novice class was running so soon in the day (right after lunch), I could have felt less pushed by guilt in leaving my 10 and 12 year olds home alone. This was worth child abandonment. They even had free helmet rental.
If you have an SCCA chapter in your area, find their web site and just go down and watch. Warning - the adrenaline and testosterone will addict you. But it's so easy and cheap to live out this fantasy. Safety is paramount, and so only two cars are on the course at one time - well spread apart. I call it a par 60 second course, with the open wheel single seaters in the high 40's and the slower ones over a minute. Brian did great on the first of four runs, and was "handicapped" by the optional instructor's weight on some runs. All the course people are supportive, addicted and the head honcha was a lady! Women drivers were not rare. The course is designed for skill, and power and speed are limited by the design. You and your LS will like the experience. Check it out in your area.
http://www.scca.org
Click on the "region websites" link to find information about club(s), membership, contact names and info, and events in your area.
Here's a good link for technical information on Solo II:
http://www.best.com/~mouton/sccasolo/
The LS V8 is classified in F-stock with V8 Mustangs, Camaros, & Firebirds, BMW 540, Shelby 350 & 500, among others; the V6 is in G-stock. What you might run against generally depends on how many cars are there, your experience/skill level, event organization, etc.
Here's another good link:
http://www.autocross.com
Brian: I haven't fooled with autocrossing in years, but the Super Sevens were quickest in Austin in the early '80s, too. (People probably still talk about the guy who once ran his dad's Eldorado, complete with whitewalls and wire wheel covers.
A couple of general notes on autocrossing for folks who haven't done it:
If you've never competed before and want to try it, it's probably a good idea to attend an event to see what it's like. (The Mania 1 event would give you a good feel for how things work; just imagine more cars, more people, more technical details, helmets, car numbers, etc.)
Contact the club that's running the event & get as much info as you can. Attending a club meeting prior to an event might also be a good idea. You generally don't have to be a club member to compete, but it'll cost more to enter.
Autocrossing is HUGE fun, but it's also serious business. Pay VERY close attention to what you're told, follow the instructions to the letter, and don't be surprised if you get yelled at.
Safety is the #1 priority. ALWAYS. Keep your eyes and ears open at all times & don't walk near the course. Helmets are mandatory for participants. They're usually available for borrowing--like bowling shoes--but be sure you know in advance if you don't have your own. Your car has to be in good shape, too. If the tires are bald, you don't get to run.
Although it doesn't happen often, it IS possible to damage your vehicle. Understand the risks. Usually the worst that happens is that you have to rub a cone mark off your fender (no offense, Stan
Leave all your "extra" stuff at home. Clear the trunk & interior of extraneous items that might tend to launch themselves while you're driving. With an LS, you probably won't need anything more than a good tire gauge and a shop rag so you can check the oil. If you take tools, leave them out of the car while you're running.
The simplest and most effective prep for a stock car is tire pressure. (Make sure you're not running 25 in one and 32 in another, for one thing. I used to run my Mustang's Michelins at 38 PSI for autocrossing & low 30s on the street, but you can usually get helpful suggestions from club members on this.)
Take a lawn chair & a hat; it can sometimes be a long (but FUN) day. Take water/beverages and snacks; don't ever, ever, EVER take beer. That's the quickest way to get invited to leave.
That's a nickel's worth of info from someone who's attended a bunch and competed in a few. (Stan/Brian, please correct anything I've misstated.) There are much worse ways to spend a Sunday!
JLinc, LLSOC charter member
Mine isn't, and I'm wondering if it's just my car or a common situation. Thanks.
You do not need to be a member of the SCCA to participate, but considering you also get some nice insurance benefits it would be advisable.
Yes you can wreck your car. No it is highly unlikely that you will unless you do something completely stupid, like keeping your foot in it while sliding out of the parking lot track. But if you're running street tires and not gumballs, there is no way for you to turn the car over. As johnnylinc stated, the worst you could do is probably get some cone burn but only if you hit the cones and drag them with you.
If you attend an event, you will be required to work the course. stanny1, every run group had to work. I ended up working the run group after mine. It was fun to see from the course worker viewpoint, not to mention being able to find some driving tips by watching the folks who really knew what they were doing drive the course. You'll be paired up with someone who has done the course worker position before. All you ending up having to do is to reset any cones that get knocked over.
As stanny1 stated, safety is rule number 1. Everyone is watching out for everyone else and there doesn't seem to be the high levels of testosterone that you see at some of the racing events. Children are allowed to ride in the cars with you if they are 12 and older, and quite a few people did this. There were also quite a few women drivers that gave the guys a good run for their money. Several of them ran better times than their other halfs!
The hardest part about autocrossing is that the track changes each time. It's laid out in a parking lot and temporary by design. It is extremely important to walk the course so you can burn it into your memory. Depending on the event there may be a lot of cones marking the course or there may be relatively few, in which case it doesn't require too much of a lapse in concentration to go off course.
BTW, didn't see any 300M cars at the event
Brian
LLSOC Prez
P.S. I'll start posting the autocross schedules on the LLSOC bulletin board in a new Racing Forum next week for all the areas.
Regards,
Airwolf
(I'm still recovering from running over the chickens...)
The little putz came out of nowhere and i tried miss it, but alas it made a very loud thud as its little head hit the lower gray molding on the front end. It pushed it back about a half inch and cracked it.
I guess cats really do have 9 lives - as I couldn't see it anywhere after that...
fantom:
I also have the auto V6 and have been really considering the Borla, but am worried that it will be too loud. Please convince me to get one... I installed the 2002 airbox already and enjoy the menacing growl it gives. I also know that the upper RPM's won't have any advantage without the Borla...
Specifications
Initial Min Max Final
L -1.0 -1.8 -0.3 -1.0
R -0.6 -1.8 -0.3 -0.6
All #'s in degrees. So my camber was in specs and not changed because it was "in the range" of acceptability. Whether we can tell if .04 difference makes a real difference we could feel is a good question. When I slolomed my 1974 Toyota Corolla SR-5, it had the Japanese disease of positive camber as most Japanese cars do supposedly because of crowned roads in Japan for rain run-off. Bee-Line Alignment in San Diego slotted the frame where the lower arm attached, welded a washer over the slot on each side, thus making a new bolt hole that moved the lower arm outward. The goal was about 1/4 degree negative camber and max positive caster - just the set-up for max cornering. It kept the tire flatter(slip angle) under load and evened the tire wear. Most MCphrerson strut suspensions need this mod.
I think it would be hard to flip an LS because of the low and centered polar moment of inertia. But you sure don't want to race an SUV out there.
Unfortunately, at least at this time, there's no way to make any camber adjustments.
Joe166 - I only have the urge to run over Geo Metros. And then I get the In and Out urge for a 4x4.
Actually, that was a short-lived reign at the top. I received the 01/02 issue of Automobile today. In a 5-car comparison test of "pre-tuned" FWDers, the new SVT Focus beat the MP3 in cornering, braking and acceleration. They were throwing terms around like "...almost BMW M3-like.." and "...Lotus of the group."
Sorry for getting a little off-topic here.
Brian must still be sleeping all that adrenalin off. Where is he?
I have a Super VHS copy off digital cable but I am waiting for the DVD with 5.1. Wouldn't it be a trip to have a 70 Challenger with a Hemi that could smoke the tires at will? I can dream.
Cost: $125 for one day or $200 for both days.
California Speedway, Fontana, CA Parking Lot 11&12
7:00am - 3:30pm with lunch provided (Sat. provided by Roush Racing)
3 to 4 students per instructor - 60 students maximum
Lots of run time and instruction!
To sign up go to www.svtoa.com/socal and click on the upcoming events listings. Print out the application form and fax to (714)990-9133 to reserve your spot. You will need to mail it in with your payment to ensure your spot so do it quickly if you're planning on going.
I'm signing up for Saturday so if anyone else wants to join me there are still 10 spots available. First come, first served.
For additional information contact Tim Schlose of the SoCal SVTOA at 714-990-9059
This is a great way to learn how to autocross and with all the instructor and seat time you will get up to speed (no pun intended) quicker than going to several autocross events.
See ya Saturday!
Brian
LLSOC Prez
Mike
LLSOC Member
I contacted them a few times, but nothing has materialized as of yet. It's been a while since I checked, so maybe I'll give them a call in the near future. Seeing the thread about the LS that Steeda modified got me thinking about the suspension again, so I should get back on the phone. At this point, however, it's not quite on the top of the priority list, since the snow should be here any day now. This past weekend I put on the snowtires, changed the oil and filter, and installed a new fuel filter. We should be good to go through winter now.
They arrived at my home last night. Guess what? The tires delivered had Traction rating A, Temperature rating A, and Treadware rating 360!!!!!! The factory Fireston Firehawks had Treadware rating 500!!!!
A call to TireRack.com got me transferred to 3 people. I explained to the 3rd gentleman the discrepancy between the specs on their website and the tires delivered to my house. "That can't be!!" the gentleman replied. "Sir, I am looking at your website AS WE SPEAK" I replied. "That can't be, that is a VR rated tire!" he continued. "Sir, I am looking at your website RIGHT NOW!" I repeated. "Hold on, let me pull up that page".
"Er, ah, gee, sir, that is a typo on our website. Those tires are 20,25K tires max, anything else? by "CLICK. No apology, no offer of ANY kind to make up for their inaccurate tire specs. We have your credit card number, now run along.
I am not a tire expert, but can anyone give me a rough estimate on the mileage differences between a 620 treadware and a 360 treadware. I don't know why I ask, a glutten for punishment I guess. Oh well, lesson learned.