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I know I know, you are all wondering what the hell this has to do with the LS so......
...... here's the kicker, I put it in nuetral, revved up the engine and, because of the growl coming from the air box mod that I did, it ending up scaring the cat off. I knew the mod was good for more than just the extra power.
BTW, 43K miles and my seat heater gave out this morning. Good thing it happened before the warranty expired.
Bruno
LLSOC member
Design problems are another issue; e.g. drive train drone and cam chain whine/howl. These aren't gonna get fixed in the first few months, or sometimes not even in the next model year.
So, if I really want that new car, I'll either get one of the first produced, or lay back & wait for evidence that design issues are either non-existant, or have been corrected.
Regards,
Airwolf
Have you contacted Lincoln Customer Assistance and walked through your problems with them? They are usually pretty good about "assisting" people out of problems, if you catch my drift.....
Brian
How does the traction control technology make the rear drive LS perform in the snow? I grew up on big tanker rear drive fords from the 70's (with the 400 and 460)and it was an art to getting around in the snow. For a long time now I've driven front drive stuff.
Will you still fish-tail? I'm really curious for future consideration. I don't think a dealer is going to let me try and lose the car in the snow for a test drive.
How about having to rock it out of a spot?
Oil filter prices have come up before. Who's charging $10.35? My dealer charged $6.95 for my last one, in late Oct. Maybe it's cheaper when they're doing the oil change, versus walking up to the parts counter and buying it.
BTW, a while back I read all the posts on the Oil Filter board over at edmunds Maintenance and Repair section. There's a regular who develops the paper they use in the filters, and really knows his stuff. Due to his position, he won't venture many opinions on particular brands, but he did mention that, while not the best, Motorcraft oil filters are very good. FWIW. Good reading for anyone who's shopping around filter alternatives.
Scott
LLSOC Member
My LS was built in December, 1999, and except for an intermittent cable connection in the PATS it has had NO problems.
I think it is both interesting and rather amazing that there is such a wide spread of reliability issues between different individual cars of the same design.
I'm very pleased with the results gained from these relatively simple intake/exhaust mods, and would recommend them to all V6M owners as great enhancements to an already great car.
It's interesting to note that Lincoln felt the same about these type of mods as they have essentially made the same types of mods to the 2002 MY.
According to the shop manual CD, it's located on the driver's side of the package tray, close to the back light. It looks ot be a disc an inch or so in diameter & about 3/8" tall.
Lincoln, however, does care about their customers, (this will be the part where some people will disagree with me, but I do have the facts to back me up on this one folks), and if they decide that you have a bad car they may, and I state may, decide to buy it back. Doesn't mean that you'll get your full purchase price back but they aren't out to screw you either.
Talk to your dealer principal. Explain the issues and show him the chonology of the issues. Keep it level-headed and professional and get him on your side. If that happens the dealership will be able to help you with your cause with the regional Lincoln representative, who has the power to decide what to do with the car. It is in your best interest to explain to everyone that you are dealing with that you really like the car except for these problems. And if not for these problems you would continue buying Lincoln LSes in the future.
That's my advice. Will it work? Can't guarantee it. But since the club has functioned as an ombudsman on some problem children I can attest to the fact that Lincoln will try to the best of their abilities to make things right.
Brian
LLSOC President
Make the dealer your advocate by working first with their senior manager to talk through and document the timeline and issues. Its a vehicle issue that most dealers want solved nearly as much as you do. Then contact the Lincoln Customer Service Center. I recommend calling first, Email to document what transpires. Yes, you will have to relate the whole annoying litany several times before you are through and it will take a while. But you must be calm, polite, articulate and resolute in making your case; all the while behaving like the loyal customer you are if you want to prevail.
Do not threaten litigation or start lemon law proceedings. First, even though lemon laws vary from state to state, I doubt your problem(s) would prevail for reasons that would take too long to go into here. Second, there are also dispute resolution boards or similar mechanisms that function in most states that are non binding on you and should be tried before the lemon law route, but after all attempts to work it out with Lincoln are exhausted.
I'm not trying to preach here, just help a fellow LS believer. The people of Lincoln do care. They have some of the most dedicated, caring customer service people/management in the industry. I know because I have worked with them and am driving a new 2002 Lincoln LS8 Sport that replaced an identical(minus the problems)2001. Good Luck!
(Sometimes I crack myself up
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member
According to the shop manual CD, it's located on the driver's side of the package tray, close to the back light. It looks ot be a disc an inch or so in diameter & about 3/8" tall. >>>>>>>
Thanks, that would be me. What the heck is the package tray? The rear deck under the back window? What I am really looking for and the disc should tell you this is where is the GPS receiver located. I'm thinking it might be in the little box in front of the rearview merrior.
The module is located behind the LH quarter trim panel & is retained by three nuts. The LH quarter trim panel, according to the CD, is the piece of hard trim that the left rear shoulder belt passes through. It looks like it just snaps out by carefully prying around its edges.
The 'switch' appears to be located above the headliner near the top center of windshield. Access requires removal of B-pillar top trim, A-pillar trim, sun visors, grab handles, dome light bezel, then careful pulling down of the headliner.
Just curious ... your profile says that you now own a Honda. ?????????????
Mine was, as usual, the only Lincoln LS there. I'm getting to the point where I can predict the questions that come up.
1. What is that?
2. That's a Lincoln?
3. Be interesting to see what it will do..
There was a lone 2000 BMW 540i there. On the parade lap around the course he was behind me and I'm sure he didn't appreciate my license plate frame (LS1 BMW0) so we never had a chance to chit-chat.
The school had an instructor for every 4 students. After the first run my instructor basically told me that I didn't need a whole bunch of help so I went on my merry way.
For those folks who think a BMW 540i is better than the LS in the handling and braking department then you haven't driven either on on an autocross. Based on my admittedly unscientific and biased viewpoint, the LS can and does kick butt on an autocross course compared to the Bimmer. No matter what he tried to do he couldn't come within 4 seconds of my times. Other people remarked how much the 540 leaned in the turns compared to the LS and how balanced the LS looked in the slalom portion. And yes he had aftermarket wheels and tires on. When I visited Dearborn the first time Jonathan showed me that they benchmarked the LS against the 540 in terms on handling and they felt that the LS was better. I agree.
Lincoln absolutely nailed the handling characteristics of our LS. It really shines on the autocross course. My instructor rode along on subsequent runs because he wanted to see what the car was capable of. First run time was average at 70.756 seconds, about middle of the 50 car pack. Final run time was 64.934 seconds, good for the top 20 on Saturday.
To put that number in perspective, only the instructors driving their autocross prepared cars, some Corvettes, and a few of the Cobras, were faster. The LS beat out the times of the Contour SVTs, a goodly number of the Cobras, and equalled the time of a couple of the Camaros. All of these cars were probably substantially lighter than the LS.
At the end of the runs, the guys that were probably snickering about a Lincoln going autocrossing were coming up to me saying how well the car handled and they couldn't believe the times I was turning. Most of them owned Cobras.
The course wasn't a very tight course, so it didn't penalize horsepower like some tighter courses I've driven. It was interesting to see the F-150 Lightnings going through the course, though. Lots of wheelspin but pretty darn quick.
If you want to have an absolute blast with your LS in a very safe environment I definitely recommend autocrossing it. I have no doubt that it will be able to be competitive in either F-Stock (V-8) or G-Stock (V-6).
For you San Diego area LLSOC members the new autocross schedule has been posted on the San Diego SCCA chapters website at http://www.sdr-solo2.com/schedule.htm#Schedule. Next event scheduled for Sunday Jan.20, with practice on Saturday Jan. 19.
If anyone is interested let me know since I'll be going.
P.S. The autocross for LS Mania 3 will be held at California Speedway in Fontana, which will be a short 20 minute drive from the hotel. More details will be posted this week on the LLSOC site. Stay tuned.
Brian
LLSOC Prez
I passed them yesterday and couldn't help but notice the bright blue duct tape on the LR window. So, I asked this morning when it happened, etc. She said that it just won't go back up... I proceeded to fill her in on the when the permanent design would be available - that their temporary fix would probably break again.
She mentioned that the dealer was going to replace the "Cracked" exhaust manifold, and that they knew it needed replaced BEFORE they sold it, but didn't replace it. Why, i don't know.
She they mentioned that she thought that her transmission was going bad, because she always goes into reverse and it is a long delay, etc. I of course, mentioned the reflash...
I told her to have her husband give me a call and I would fill him in on any other info that I know.
I guess my point is, that I really don't know a lot of people that own LS's in the area, but I know 'where they live' if you will. Most of them are 'older' couples that would not have internet access.
I don't know why, but I feel compelled to help them in some way, shape or form to at least let them in on the info. that I know about the LS. Any body have any suggestions for me. Brian, I know I asked if they was any information that I could distribute about the LLSOC - but for the internet challenged folks that I would be dealing with - I would like suggestions.
I am also wondering if anyone would know of a way or have a contact (Brian) that could get me some extra copies of the Road & Track LS mini magazine that came out in 1999. I read through mine occasionally and find it to be an excellent story of "How the LS came to be and what its all about."
I think I'd like to organize some sort of get together next summer for the local owners here in NW PA.
PS - Brian - reading your post - well, it made me feel proud!! I wish I had access to autocrossing in my area.
The club is in the final design process of a membership brochure.Once I get the brochure back from the print shop I will run off copies for anyone who would like to distribute them to other LS owners.
I will also contact Road and Track to see if it's possible to get additional copies of the LS supplement. If not, I can always scan it in and reprint it, though I'm sure I'll have to ask permission first
Couldn't have done what I've done without the support of the folks who post here and the LLSOC members. Thanks to all of you!
Brian
Thanks for the reply. I would consider the antenna the antenna and the module you speak about below the receiver.
<<<<The module is located behind the LH quarter trim panel & is retained by three nuts. The LH quarter trim panel, according to the CD, is the piece of hard trim that the left rear shoulder belt passes through. It looks like it just snaps out by carefully prying around its edges.>>>>>>>
This is probably the part I wanna get a look at. I just want to see if it might have an output jack that can be used to send a signal to a laptop runnung a nav. program. Thanks.
<<<<The 'switch' appears to be located above the headliner near the top center of windshield. Access requires removal of B-pillar top trim, A-pillar trim, sun visors, grab handles, dome light bezel, then careful pulling down of the headliner.>>>>
Don't know what the switch would be for unless they are refering to the 'SOS' button that calls for help and gives the operator your position.
<<<<<Just curious ... your profile says that you now own a Honda. ????????????? >>>>>>
What profile? I just bought a Honda for my daughter a few months ago. We bought the 2002 LS V8 Sport about a month ago. I only wish I drove it every day. I drive a piece of crap Chrysler Cirus or whatever it's called. Hey but it's free.
1. The left front tire seems out of balance, (like a square wheel) I feel every turn of the tire on the road. It seems odd that a new car would have tires out of balance. The alignment seems fine.
2. When driving on a highway at 80 miles an hour the car was bouncing. It was very noticeable, especially because I had passengers in the car.
I am looking for any input from Sport's owner who may have had the same problem before I bring it to the dealer.
You're constantly confirming my "Lincoln Ride and Drive" event impression that the LS performed better than the BMW 5 series on the slalom course. I drove/compared the LS and BMW 528, and felt the LS was the quicker/better handling vehicle.
Maybe Lincoln could make a TV ad out of it using your performance as an inspiration. Something like those Kia vs. Toyota commercials. Instead of the woman choking at the table, they could show the guy in the 540i kicking his car after the LS blows him away autocrossing:)
What profile? I just bought a Honda for my daughter a few months ago. We bought the 2002 LS V8 Sport about a month ago. I only wish I drove it every day. I drive a piece of crap Chrysler Cirus or whatever it's called. Hey but it's free"
Too view the profile; click on your or someone elses name. You can also adjust the profile by clicking, "My Profile" at the top of the forum.
On a more secondary note; I have my stock airbox off for the final step in the Ram-air system I'm having done to my car. Modifying the bottom of the box for the tube(earlier posts.) For the time being, I'm using a cone filter thats for a Taurus SHO. It's probualy my imageination but, it seems to have quicker throttle response and it's deffenatly alot louder under the hood than before at WOT.
Brian,
What psi do you keep your 18 inch tires at? I like mine right around 40-43 psi; It is a rougher ride at that setting but, it's better for low- profile radials rather than beefier ones, plus it is less drag on the road which proves better steering, accel, and braking. What brand of 18" rims do you have eg: style, finish, ect...?
But hey, we gotta cut the poor guy some slack, his 540 only has McPhearson struts up front, sort of like a Camry does.
How do you think a stock V6, with a Borla and an enlarged air box would do running G Stock? Wouldn't want to give the small block LS a bad performance image.
Gary
LLSOC Member
I think you may have a defective left-front tire, or at least it is way out of balance and needs to be rebalanced. It may be out of round, in which case it should be replaced.
You didn't describe the bouncing at 80 MPH, but if it is a high-frequency bouncing, it is likely the same tire.
If it is a low-frequency bouncing, it may simply be the road.
On a good road, driving a Lincoln LS at 80, or 100, or even 120, is about like sitting in your living room favorite chair, and you can even have a conversation with passengers in the back seat without raising your voice!
Prior to purchasing a case of the Baldwin filters, I checked out several Ford parts sites on the net, and the average price is $8-$8.25 plus shipping. Shipping generally adds about $.75-$.90 each.
The last time I bought filters was in the spring of this year, and I paid $7.50, so $2.85 more is quite a jump. The guys at the parts store tell me that Motorcraft bumped their wholesale pricing, so there's nothing they can do.
And thanks for the comprehensive report.
Thanks for the report on the LS.....I loved it to.. Good to see you license plate lived up to the name. Good to get that input from Jonathan to about the benchmarking. You are Lincolns Sport Advertising.. No Doubt about it...
Regarding my car. It is still in the shop today an no solution found yet. I decided to e-mail jim last thursday about my product. He kindly referred me back to Anne Belec.. To whom he forwarded the e-mail. No word yet.
My dealership though was kind enough though to get me in a LS Rental for the weekend. They picked up the extra charges for the LS, Lincoln would not cover... I tell you Lincoln should make an Example of the Village Group and how great their Service Department is with their customers. If you are in Dallas, Duncanville, Denton or Irving,Texas, I would highly recommend Village Lincoln.
Regards,
Airwolf1000
LLSOC members such as myself might have to open a License plate fund to finance a new license plate every week! LOL.
LS2BMW0, LS3BMW0, ...
When I leave my office everyday there is a sweeping right turn viaduct onto the freeway where in 4th gear, I can easily blast thru it. No tire squeal, low body lean, etc. The challengers who have been put to shame by falling way behind so far include an Eclipse, 3 Mustangs, 2 BMWs, a Passat trying to pass my Lincoln! I hate tailgaters! Lol.
Happy LSing and Mele Kalikimaka! (Merry Christmas)
Wes
I think the V-6, either manual or auto, would be able to compete in G Stock and hold it's own. It is a little lighter in the front so what it lacks in torque it will make up in transient response. In G Stock you will be competing against mainly front-drive cars like the Celica and the Neon which are lighter. But the balance of the LS will enable it to keep up unless the course is set up to reward front-drivers.
I gave up on the GMS mass air flow sensor. For some reason it didn't seem to want to keep the calibration. I took the stock airbox and basically cut away the entire sides and bottom except for the side that is closest to the engine. This way I still use the stock top, and the side that's left sort of works as a heat shield. I still have the cold air intake coming up into the space but know I don't need to worry about ingesting water but still get the benefit of the outside air. There doesn't seem to be much difference between this modification and using the bigger sensor and cone filter. I still have to use the recalibrator since I had to ever so slightly adjust the high-speed mixture to be the slightest bit lean to keep the engine from cutting out, but it idles great and I'm back to getting 24 mpg at 80 mph.
P.S. for the autocross I reset my mileage and it actually got down to 13.4 mpg for the full autocross.
Brian
at Autozone. And speaking of fuel economy, the full winter blend of MTBE supplement
to the gas here in New Hampshire is in effect, and has lowered my V6's MPGs to below 20, which is similar to what has happened on my previous vehicles. The drop is usually in the 10% range, which really adds up to quite a hit in the wallet over the course of 6--8 thousand miles.
It is great to read about the LS and autocross here. Has anyone seen a supercharger kit for the V-6? The blower on a 5-speed V-6 would be a REAL sleeper, with even modest boost would make this a 250horse/250 lb-ft. Plus the lighter weight of the V-6 would make it a killer of a car.
I got a phone call today... Not from my Service Advisor he is out sick but from another service advisor and notified me that my car is apparently ready! They said they just were not able to get the Clunking noise out and that I need to come back after the Holidays. Ford Has deemed my car is safe to drive, and that they will send out an engineer after the Holidays to check it out...
So what do I do for now? Deal with the horrible sound we heard the other day everytime we go over a bump. It scared my friend the other day..
I am not a happy camper guys. Very dissapointed. I did not buy a $39K car to have it be a clunker.
Waiting to hear from the higher ups...
Regards,
Victor
I am getting group rate information for the Embassy Suites so don't book a room just yet. I will definitely need to know how many people will be interested in the autocross no later than January 15 so the SCCA SoCal chapter can block out a group for us.
Brian
LLSOC President
February 15-17,2002
LS MANIA 3 (National Event)
Premier Automotive Group Headquarters, Irvine CA
Event Hotel: Embassy Suites, 1325 East Dyer Road, Santa Ana, CA . We will be getting group rate information shortly so please do not book the room yet.
Cost: $100 per person includes LLSOC polo shirt, SCCA Autocross entry fee and Thursday happy hour food. If not entering in the autocross event companions pay $50. Does not include the cost of the hotel room. Stay tuned for additional details.
Tentative Agenda (subject to change)
Feb. 14, 2002 (Thursday) - Embassy Suites:
2:00 pm - 6:00 pm Registration
4:00 pm - 8:00 pm Happy Hour Mixer in the lounge
Feb. 15, 2002 (Friday) - Premier Automotive Group Headquarters:
7:30 am Depart for PAG HQ
8:00 am Breakfast
9:00 am Building Tour
10:00 am Question and Answer Session Roundtable
1:00 pm Lunch
2:00 pm LLSOC update/business meeting
3:00 pm Product Presentation
4:30 pm LLSOC reception
6:00 pm Depart for Embassy Suites
Feb. 16, 2002 (Saturday) California Speedway, Fontana:
8:00 am Depart for California Speedway
9:00 am Registration for SCCA SoCal Autocross event
10:00 am - 4:00 pm Autocross instruction and event
5:00 pm Depart for Embassy Suites
Feb. 16, 2002 (Sunday):
Departures
1. Since the Lincoln accessory catalog shows the wood shift knob on a manual and says it's available for both the V6 & V8 I would assume that there are different parts for auto & manual. The catalog just lists the base P/N not the full #.
2. Glad to hear that the LS is doing so well on the autocross. Interesting that most (if not all) of the car rags still consider BMW superior handling. I also wonder about the relatively low slalom speeds that the various rags posted for the LS, the BMW's usually have faster slalom speeds. Brian, I wonder how much of your autocross speed can be attributed to the Michelins? The Michelin Pilots I got from you have incredible dry cornering grip. It would be interesting to see the LS with the Michelins it now comes with compared to the old Firestones in the typical car rag tests (slalom - skidpad).
3. The V6 old filter is a common Ford (Motorcraft) part used on Taurus / Sable etc. so it's available pretty much everywhere as reasonable prices. The LS-V8 uses the same filter as the Jag V8 and it is an odd ball used only on the Jag, LS & T-Bird. Last time I checked at Pep Boys they had no intent to carry the V8 filter. It will probably take a critical mass of >500,000 V8's in service to get the after market parts guys interested in carrying the V8 filters. I have found a LM dealer who is willing to give my a discount (typically 20-30%) on parts. From what I can tell the dealer cost is typically around 50% of the list on parts.
4. License plates - if you have a Ford Red Carpet lease you have to take whatever plate they give you.