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Comments
One thing to keep in mind; the lower aspect ratio tires you go with, the more it benifets with higher pressure. Give a low-profile all the psi she can handle and than some; the side-walls are stronger the lower profile you go and were built for that sole purpose. The actual tread gets flatter while the sidewall gets more ridged(straight)with higher psi(pounds per square inch). With a low aspect tire eg:245-40 18; running at the factory recommended pressure of the stockers that the car came with the lower ratio tires would lead to disaster with the side-wall buckling under high-speed cornering and possibly come out from under the rim.
Now, on the other side of the spectrum; I would not recommend inflating Bias or big mud bogging Radials to extreme pressures to where is would bow out; that could lead to an explosion or failure of the tire. I don't think anyone on this site will probualy put monster-size tires on their LS's(IMHO let's hope not.)On a personal note, I've been running anywhere from 40-45psi both front and rear(I try to keep it even)in my tires for several months now and I have gotten used to the rougher ride plus the added (ultra)traction of the normal twists and bends in the roads. The car feels even more like it's on rails. I guess it's not as smooth(rougher)compared to 35-38psi but, after awile you don't even feel it and it becomes more natural. I personally think the car should of came with 18" and 40 series tires from the factory or at least as an option for the New Ultimate Driving Machine LS1BMW0! That as an option would get also more of a younger demograph in the market for a Lincoln = more sales + more of a market for the LS's eg: aftermarket mods,perf.
Felt like adding my own experience and $0.02 worth,
Mike
To say the Wilderness A/T tires didn't have a problem is simply ignoring the facts. Low psi was a contributor but the fact remains that Goodyear and Michelins didn't separate - Firestones did. I guess Ford paid off the NHTSA so they blamed the tires and not the explorer?
Your statement about max tire pressure seems to hint that it's safe to run over the mfr recommended PSI. There is obviously a safety margin built into it but you have no way of knowing how big that margin is or how close you are to it. Exceeding max pressure is dangerous - period.
If you want to destroy your own vehicle with overinflated tires and water sucking intake modifications go right ahead. But stop trying to convince others that it's safe.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/hot/Firestone/firestonesummary.html
You'll note that tire pressure was not the cause of the tread separation. Akirby correctly notes that vehicles fitted with original equipment Goodyear tires with the same recommended pressure had no problems. Other manufacturer SUVs on the road today also use the same recommended psi of 26 without tread separation problems.
The tires were deemed defective because the belt wedge thickness was usually narrower than other manufacturers tires, and the wedge gauge was often less than Firestone's own specs for that dimension. Because of this the tires did not resist the "initiation and propagation of belt-edge cracks between the steel belts".
Additionally the gauge of the rubber between the two steel belts spec'd by Firestone was less than other manufacturers and the gauge of this rubber in the tires actually produced were sometimes "far less" than Firestone's own design spec. Also, the Wilderness tires tested would "exhibit a series of weak spots around the tire's circumference" which led to the "initiation and growth of cracks earlier than in competitor tires" and other tires made by Firestone for SUVs.
Still working on my mobile video project in my 2000 LS V6 Sport. I initially ordered a set of 5.6 inch monitors, but the housing was too thick for the stealth/flush install I was seeking. I also was unsure of my skills with regards to cutting into the headrests. So, I allowed the internet vendor that sold me the monitors to examine my headrests in person, then decide what he felt was best. He's installed 5.6 inch LCD Modules (raw LCD's with no plastic housings) into the headrests, and he's shipping them back to me this week. I will perform the wiring and remaining install of the DVD player in the trunk. I have yet to see a setup where TV reception is anything other then fair to poor when the vehicle is in motion, so I opted to forgo a Tuner, and just go DVD at this time. I plan to use an FM modulator to allow the sound to come through the factory stereo. (This prevents any cutting or hacking into the factory stereo wiring to obtain sound). I also plan to add wireless headphones at a later time.
Can someone tell me the colors/locations of wires that are switched hots? If this wire is upfront, I will run a single wire from this source, and tap into this one wire for power for the two monitors, fm modulator, and DVD player.
Thanx in advance..
http://www.nhtsa.gov/hot/Firestone/firestonesummary.html
You'll note that tire pressure was not the cause of the tread separation. Akirby correctly notes that vehicles fitted with original equipment Goodyear tires with the same recommended pressure had no problems. Other manufacturer SUVs on the road today also use the same recommended psi of 26 without tread separation problems.
The tires were deemed defective because the belt wedge thickness was usually narrower than other manufacturers tires, and the wedge gauge was often less than Firestone's own specs for that dimension. Because of this the tires did not resist the "initiation and propagation of belt-edge cracks between the steel belts".
Additionally the gauge of the rubber between the two steel belts spec'd by Firestone was less than other manufacturers and the gauge of this rubber in the tires actually produced were sometimes "far less" than Firestone's own design spec. Also, the Wilderness tires tested would "exhibit a series of weak spots around the tire's circumference" which led to the "initiation and growth of cracks earlier than in competitor tires" and other tires made by Firestone for SUVs.
Most autocrossers run a lot higher pressures for street tires due to wanting to have the sidewalls as stiff as possible to prevent rollunder.
While I won't get embroiled in the higher/lower tire pressure discussion, I personally run my tires at 35 psi on the street. These Michelins in the 45 series have a lot better transient response at higher pressures. At 45 psi they have a knife-edge handling feel to them. The maximum pressure on these particular tires is 51 psi so I know they can handle them. When I had the stones on I ran them at 35 psi also. But each person has to be comfortable at any changes from manufacturers recommendations. If you feel that 30 psi is adequate for your driving needs stick with it. Only you can determine what feels right for you.
YMMV
I would suggest trying to buy existing heated seats from a junkyard instead.
Brian
That is what I am hearing....But I guess it also depends on driving style soft and consistent all around or really pushing to the edge?
Regards,
Airwolf1000
E-mail me, I think I have some interesting info for you, about a company that produces interfacing devices that eliminate splicing into the factory wiring.
Tom
LLSOC Charter Member
My suggestion? Experiment with the pressures until it feels right for you.
http://www.auto.com/reuters1.htm
Those who bought the LS expecting a much improved Taurus SHO are laughing. Those who thought that the LS was a combination of BMW performance and Infiniti fit/finish/attention to detail and dealership service are, shall we say, not laughing.
Thanks for the link, jhoffman61.
This package includes AdvanceTrac, a sophisticated upgrade to the standard traction control system. It monitors speed, steering input, and angle/attitude of the vehicle, among other things, and can individually apply brakes and reduce throttle to bring the car back in line if it senses a problem.
Even though I'm not in a snow-prone area, I ordered AdvanceTrac; I figure if it saves me once, it's well worth the price.
For the '02 model year, the All-Season Package consists of AdvanceTrac and heated seats, and lists for $735. Last year these were separate options and listed for $1135, so for '02 you're in effect getting the heated seats for no charge.
I emailed it out to everyone on the mailing list, however, my email list provider seems to be listed on some anti-spam lists since I have a ton of emails kicking back.
Since I hate spam mail as much as the next person I have decided to cease emailing the newsletter out and just publish it online since I don't want to cause any problems with email providers.
Brian
captdavid: My tires also wore more in the center, at 30 psi since new. At LS Mania2 an engineer told me that was typical of the rear tires on high performance RWD cars. Mine are even due to regular rotation. Guess it's normal.
kicker9, does your LS have AdvanceTrac? I'm well versed in the countersteer technique you describe, but so far AdvanceTrac has kept me from having to practice it.
Let's be fair; it's been a while but there have been posts from people getting rid of the Firestones for reasons of personal safety, misguided or not.
Scott
LLSOC Member
I've even found a reason to be glad someone has abandoned the LS in favor of BMW!
Sorry, back to the topic . . .
I've been in Texas several times, take an oil soaked highway immediately after it starts raining and magnify that by 10 and you'll have snow like conditions. Better yet, wait till the rain washes the surfaces clean--don't try this at home. Kicker
Your statement on HID conversion also left a sour taste in my mouth by not telling me if you used or tried them; only by your pestimestic view included that link to not use HID xenon's cause of wrongful reflector in non-xenon made housings. That is probualy why I posted a question knowing that same exact answer. I wanted to know if anyone tried it and what the turnout was for them. You must have great doubts on the LS and it's reflectors(I think that they are good reflectors IMHO) and pithy views on upcoming LS's. By the way, are you a Ford exec? And if you are, I understand why the LS isn't everything it could and should be.
Mike
Regards,
V.
You get the flag when you set your country in your user profile. Looks like yours is already set; maybe you should try editing your profile & saving it again...
JLinc, LLSOC charter member
As for HID conversions: EVERY HID conversion kit manufacturer I have looked at (no, I can't verify that I have examined 100% of them) states how critical the reflector is to proper light output. So your statement, "only by your pestimestic [sic] view included that link to not use HID xenon's cause [sic] of wrongful reflector in non-xenon made housings" is just plain wrong. There is nothing pessimistic about it, akirby is just acknowledging reality.
If you are truly as omniscient as your posts seem to make you then you realize you need to lighten up a little. We all have our OPINIONS and just like the old saying goes, "Opinions are like ***holes, everybody has one and they all stink."
Did giowa have his name changed ?? (hope I don't get censored)
I feel a soft spot for akirby in your writing. Are you his guardian or vise-versa. On the HID case; did you read back to my question? If so you would know that the question I asked had nothing to do with the link he posted. I know about different reflector design and optics and how it effects lighting output, aim, cutoff, etc of a arc type capsule on a non-OEM xenon kit. I thought we went over this already? That's probualy why I asked if anyone used them. Do you see a difference? I guess not. I'm going to be a man a quit this discussion of nonsense. Oh, one thing more,"or else" that was my line not his; it was to his remark saying, "If I want to destroy my car... don't convince others into the same"
Leadfoot4,
No, this is not GIOWA; why do you say that? I'm just speaking my right and knowledge, that's all. I just like getting positive responses back when leaving a question; not always a smart-azz remark from the same people. I do understand that we all have opinions here but, being a wiseazz with me constantly doesn't make me a nice guy either.
Peace brothers,
Mike
Huh. So I guess we shouldn't assume if you are flying an American flag your an American Citizen. Could be Chinese for all we know! Not that it matters just interesting behavior for the Flag Selection.
Once Again Thanks. Apparently I set it when I put down what country I was from when I edited my profile. Hasn't been edited since I first joined back in late part of 1999 when I became involved in the LS Forum... Man its been a while.
Good to see most of y'all are still here...
BTW my flag was not set for all messages, until today when I set my country. Apparently it pulls the owner information of a message every time because it went back and Added my flag now to all the previous messages. So If I was to change flags again all previous messages would display the new flag, not only new ones from this point on.
Regards,
Airwolf
intake modification - putting the air intake too low in the front of the car is very dangerous. You run a VERY HIGH risk of ingesting water if you hit a puddle. If you understand this and still choose to do it, fine. But others who may see your post and think it's ok deserve to know the risks involved. Brian told you the same thing. I even gave you examples of the explorer problem to prove it's possible and you still don't believe me. What makes you such an expert and so much smarter than everyone else, including the entire automotive engineering community?
tire pressure - running high psi is fine as long as you don't exceed the maximum psi rating on the sidewall. And you don't mind potentially uneven wear. The max psi on mine and Brian's Pilot Sports is 51, so running 45 is ok, but not 55. The tire mfr knows what psi is safe and by exceeding that number you are asking for a failure. If you understand that and want to take that risk, go right ahead. But I feel obligated to make sure everyone else understands that it's potentially dangerous and not recommended by any tire mfr. Maybe you're confusing the maximum PSI with the vehicle mfr's recommended pressure - 2 totally different things.
xenon HID replacements - the point of the article is that even if you replace the bulbs with true xenon bulbs you may not get the better performance that you expected due to the reflectors. It has nothing to do with the quality of the reflectors. Each reflector has to be customized to the light housing, lens and bulb in each vehicle to get the maximum performance. Substituting a different bulb may require a different reflector configuration for optimum performance. Another example of this is people with first and second generation explorers who substituted higher wattage bulbs but got no improvement because the reflectors were so bad. And at one time they were not DOT legal.
As for the Firestones, I NEVER ONCE said there was any safety issue with the Firehawks. If I was worried about that I wouldn't have left them on for 2 years.
If you have facts that dispute what I've said above then please post them for everyone's benefit. Otherwise keep your unfounded whining to yourself. If you don't like the advice from this group then go find a different one.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
BTW, in doing so I made a jesting but rude comment referring to a particular person. It's been brought to my attention that my comment might well be taken 100% seriously and cause offense. This was not my intent, though is my fault since I foolishly expect everyone to know when I'm kidding around. I apologize for my lack of courtesy.
americanstndrd: Have you driven the car(s) and formed any opinions of your own? Seriously, $35-40k is a lot of bread to be spending based on magazine writers' opinions. I like hearing why someone chose Audi, BMW, Lexus, etc. over the LS; it will make me a smarter customer next time. The LS can stand criticism, so can most of us here, but better reasons than magazine reviews make for more interesting discussion.
And did you know that it's hard to stuff four new Firehawks into the back of an LS, even with the rear seatbacks down, because of the confounded Intrusive Trunk Hinges?
Scott
LLSOC Member
My 2 cents. The reviewers are afraid if they write a review that is too positive on a car such as the LS vs a BMW for example they will be viewed as not being a car nut and lacking in knowledge. I bought my LS because I thought it to be close enough to the european sports sedan type of car as far as handeling goes and because it had the following features: front engine/rear wheel drive, V8, sports suspension package was available, fairly luxurous, quick, parts would be a whole lot cheaper than BMW etc, I wouldn't have to bend over and lube up at the service check out counter, and the car is like what one reviewer said an unbelievable bargin. If you are worried about that last "tenth" of handeling then go pay the price but on the exit ramp I'll be right behind and I'll have fifteen grand to buy new sails and other stuff for my boat that you won't have.
By the way 5,000 miles on my 2002 Silver Sport V8 and not one problem, no vibrations, rear windows still work, headlights are fine and the transmission is flawless. I've driven a lot of cars and none are perfect. This car is a gem for not a lot of money compaired to it's competition.
Got to tell you I wanted a new 540i so bad I could taste it, but I leased a 2001(now 2002) $40,400 LS V8 and a $42,400 A6 Quattro (for my spouse) for a total of about $200 more a month than the best 540i lease deal I could get!
With tier 1 credit, you can get $40K LSes on 36 month leases, no down, no deposit, first payment paid by Red Carpet, three year maintenance, four year bumper to bumper warranty, for under $475/mo. all day long. The Lincoln LS is the content/value leader by a country mile! Its amazing that with the sky high residuals that are quoted for, say, a 5 series, you can't come close to that price, buying or leasing.
1) 2000 models had tranny shifting problems and a few quality problems which most reviewers encountered. Most have not retested a 2001 or 2002 model to see that all of those problems have been fixed.
2) power is a little lacking. The V8 performance is closer to competition's V6 offerings. This should be fixed in 2003.
3) dash (especially center console) is rather cheap looking for this class of car. Wood trim kit helps a lot but again testers only see the factory offering. Hopefully this will also be addressed for 2003.
4) Brand prejudice. nuff said.
I think if the LS gets the power upgrades, interior upgrades and a high performance (preferably manual) version (think SVT) to compete against the 540i and M5 and E55 then I think the press will stand up and take notice. Assuming there are no new quality problems that crop up in the meantime. Any problem tends to be amplified in the LS and downplayed in the competition. Just check out Edmunds own long term tests of the LS and BMW.
Look at the heavy hitters in the automobile magazine advertising. BMW is probably up there around number 1 or 2. Especially if you include all the ancillary advertising that goes along with the brand. Now just imagine that all of a sudden the LS took top spot consistently and the BMW was panned. How long do you think it would be before BMW stopped advertising in that magazine?
Around here you can't go an hour without hearing a BMW/Lexus commercial. I suspect it's the same in heavy BMW/Lexus areas of the country. So it's not coincidence that more people buy them. No matter what people say they go into a dealership and a car with expectations based on magazine articles, and radio and tv advertising.
What would really be interesting is if you de-badged and cloaked both a BMW 540i and a LS V-8 and put them both in a BMW showroom, if people who have never driven either one would be able to tell which one was the BMW. Then let them drive both of them and ask the same question. I honestly don't think I would be able to tell the difference and I honestly feel, neither would they.
My rather long-winded, .000001 farthing.
Brian
LLSOC Kahuna
Some Lincoln LS reviews were done before the latest reflash data sets that have addressed most of the automatic transmission complaints; hence most of the criticism about the transmission is obsolete.
Except for a few apparently very unlucky LS owners who have had a very unfortunate collection of failures and problems, most of us have had extremely few problems. Most of the problems people have had have been really rather minor, albeit annoying, such as the rear window regulators. Lincoln claims to have a new design now that REALLY corrects this problem. So far, after two years and almost 35,000 miles and living in the desert Southwest, my regulators have never failed. Also, I haven't had any vibrations or rattles or leaks. The only problem I have had was an intermittent connector on the Passive Anti-Theft System.. hard to find; easy to fix.
The majority of Lincoln LS owners I've heard from have had very few problems.
I've read complaints about the quality of the (fake) wood grain, about the quality of the leather, and about the quality of the door mats. I think the leather is just fine, and the seats are wonderfully comfortable. I'd rather have the fake wood grain than REAL wood, because the plastic stuff is a lot more durable. When the door mats wear out, I'll buy new ones.
If I had it to do all over again, I'd buy this same car again in a heartbeat. It is the best car I've ever owned, and I haven't seen any other car I think might be better that doesn't cost AT LEAST $10,000 more.
Just my $.08 (adjusted for my long windedness (is that even a word?) and inflation).
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member
I've had my '01 V8 Sport for nearly 16 months. After 19,000 miles, the car has been virtually flawless. My only visits to the dealer have been for routine maintenance; during one of those visits, I had the recall for the torque setting on the front ball-joints done (my nuts were within spec
This car is a superb handler. I find it to be extremely well-planted, and very comfortable on the road. The seats are outstanding; after 3 or 4 hours behind the wheel, I'm not the least bit fatigued. It's exceptionally well-balanced, and works great in the wet as well as in the dry. I do wish it was quicker off the mark--I want to see more work done in the area of putting the power to the ground--but in real-world driving it has plenty of juice when you need to pass someone on the freeway.
It has plenty of bells and whistles, too; finding a comfortable driving position is a snap, what with the seat & steering wheel adjustments and memory, and it has the sort of luxury features that one would expect in this class of car. My sound system is adequate, but could be better, and the console definitely needs more storage space, but all in all it's been a great car to live with, and I find the Jaguar-derived engine to be extremely smooth.
Perhaps some of the interior materials could be of a higher grade, but my car shows very little if any wear--the leather still looks new. In short, I'm very pleased with my purchase.
You must consider the fact that BMW, the acknowledged leader in sports sedans, has been building them since the 1960s. They've had the better part of 40 years to perfect the technique, so excellence from them in this class of car should be expected. Mercedes has been doing their thing for a long time, too; so have Audi and Jaguar. Lexus had the advantage of establishing their reputation from a clean slate and chose a relatively narrow focus while drawing on Toyota's engineering and financial power, and they've done it well, but they've not concentrated on the true sports sedan market until relatively recently.
When you compare prices, a similar-sized BMW V8 sedan (540), comparably equipped, lists for about $16,000 more than the LS V8 Sport. That's about 40% higher, so it darn well SHOULD be noticeably better. The V8 Lexus and Mercedes are similarly pricey. I think marketing decisions are at least partly responsible for the LS not having more power; requiring it to have fewer ponies and a (slightly) smaller engine than the Jag S-type 4.0 was a mistake, IMHO, but that's the way it happened.
Would I have liked to see more incremental improvements to the LS since introduction? Sure; cars should always get better. From what we're hearing, the '03 LS will have some exciting improvements, and I can't wait to see them.
BMW and Mercedes have a distinct advantage in resale value at this point, and that's something that will take time to change. Since the LS is such a new concept for Lincoln, it's sometimes been difficult to market and service the car in the existing dealer network; owners of premium cars expect premium treatment, and that hasn't always been the case for the LS.
Changing dealer mindsets is a huge task; once again, BMW and Merc have been at this for a long time, and Lexus had the advantage of setting their dealer rules and procedures with a clean slate. It'll take time (and money) for Lincoln to meet those standards, and there has to be profit to pay those bills. They're working on it, though.
Many of us have had the opportunity to meet some of the people who are responsible for designing and producing the LS, and I can assure you that they are REAL car nuts with world-class talent and boundless enthusiasm. I think things are very good now, and am optimistic that they'll continue to get better.
I'm obviously pro-LS, so it's hard to be totally objective, but I think some of the reviewers tend to subtly downgrade the car because it's a Lincoln. More than once I've read, "I can't believe this is a Lincoln!" from some car-mag writer. Some of the criticisms in the Edmunds long-term test are, I think, unfounded, but there are also lots of raves in there, too--as there are in most of the reviews. The LS, overall, has been well-received by the automotive press, but I'd feel better if it came up first or second in some of those 8-car comparisons. I think it will in time, but we'll have to wait and see.
My advice? Drive the car. Drive the competition. Do your "due diligence" on the tangibles--how much will it cost, in real dollars, to drive an LS off the lot versus a 5-series Bimmer, and how much will it really cost to operate? How does it perform; how does it feel? How much room does it have? I think you'll find the LS to be an excellent value and a real bargain compared to much/most of the competition.
I think it's a really, really fine car; drive one, and see what you think.
JohnnyLinc, LLSOC charter member
As all of the LLSOC signatures indicate, the car itself is able to cause excitement and appreciation. This has occurred spontaneously and without a relationship to "image" or great advertising and press coverage.
To paraphrase Packard (?) advertising, ask the person who owns one.
John
LLSOC Charter Member