Toyota Sienna Maintenance and Repair (2003 earlier)

bob57 · April 2002

Not sure how that material got into the mix. But, calium silicate is used in rubber as a reinforcing agent and also in paints & coatings. Did you scrap off some paint from the surface of that lip? It is also used in ceramics to some degree.
Did anyone actually come up with; if the subject lip had a hard coating of (whatever) did that indicate a sludge build-up in the engine?

innovations · April 2002

bob57: I think the jury's still out on that one. I haven't heard anyone conclusively indicate that you can have carbon on the lip without sludge in the engine. My 2001 has it, but I haven't pulled the valve cover to find out. I did try scraping it off and it did require quiet a bit of force, so your theory about the paint could very well be applicable.

jeprox · April 2002

by reading your post, i have all the problems u have and they are all fixed! the black gritty material you can scrape off is not sludge! the only way to confirm sludge is to remove your valve covers and then, u will see for sure if you have sludge or not.

my van is 1999 model and have the same gritty material u are referring to and with over 55,000kms now - it's running perfectly!
steering pull can solved with alignment or different tires. noisy brakes can solved by turning the drums or blowing out the dust. window washer leak can be fixed by changing a valve.

my opinion is don't jump to conclusion about your van having the sludge problem. the gritty material you have is certainly NOT proof that your engine have sludge. only way to be sure 100% is to remove the valve covers.

goodluck.

innovations · April 2002

Today's Press Release from toyota.com

Worthwhile reading for all Toyota consumers.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id=20020403

mcgreger · April 2002

I'm hoping like the rest of us here that you don't find sludge in your engine, as you have certainly been well within the intervals for oil changes. Which brings me to one of my concerns-you have a '99 Sienna with less than 17k on it-is this mostly short mileage/limited duration driving? And when you mention that you have had 5 oil changes-was that based on mileage(driving maybe 5k per year); or was it based on monthly intervals? If you owned the van for 2.5 to 3 years, that might mean an oil change every 6 or 7 months. These two things might be a factor if indeed there is sludge in your engine. Are there any other problems such as oil consumption, white smoke on start-up, etc.? Please keep us posted on what the mechanics find.

mcgreger · April 2002

I just was over at News and Views checking out the only remaining engine sludge topic and I saw the press release. Thats really great news IMO, especially with no mileage limitations. Probably should have done this first before mailing out the SPA letters; but what the heck, definitely headed in the right direction with this policy annoucement.

yaman · April 2002

Thanks for the post! Certainly good news

innovations · April 2002

I think Toyota is doing the right thing too. I'd been quite concerned about Toyota's stance before now. I don't think they would issue this new press release if they felt like there is really a large-scale problem. By now they should have had a chance to analyze the cars that have been brought in from their original SPA.

It sounds like good news.

bob57 · April 2002

They took a giant step for mankind...er..owners there. Pretty impressive.
That "might" silence a few.

modelt · April 2002

Sienna was the final 2 choices in my next minivan purchase. The other choice was the 02 MPV. I am about to buy the 02 MPV because this sludge problem is worrisome. With this new policy, and the Toyota rebate, Sienna is definitely back in the race for my money. Thanks for the post innovations.

bob57 · April 2002

I have both the Sienna & MPV (yeah, I'm a pig...)
Both fine vans.

modelt · April 2002

Wow, Bob. There's no better one to ask. If you must pick one because that's all you can get, then which one and why?

innovations · April 2002

I thought U of H was working on alternative transportation options like magnetic levitation and fusion? ..oh, I get it, "alternative" means "alternating" between 2 vans.

Have Fun!

wrichar107 · April 2002

Re earlier comments about the possible source of calcium in my Sienna's engine; there is no paint in or near the surface on which the layer of grit is deposited. This would seem to be a moot point;however, because the calcium was found in the oil sample not the layer of gunk below the oil filler cap. After reading the report they gave me again, I find that the lab was not as concerned about calcium as they were about sodium levels. The sodium reading was 20 parts per million (ppm) versus the universal average of 6 ppm The silicon (translate that as grit) level was 22 ppm versus the universal average of 12 ppm or, almost double the amount expected. Removing a valve cover will be the next step although another $70 expenditure on this very trouble prone vehicle is not something, which pleases me a great deal. An engine, that must be pampered to the extent that the Toyota V-6 appears to require, does not strike me as a particularly good advertisement for a company that prides itself on making durable, highly reliable products. If merely sitting in the driveway causes engine damage, perhaps I need a Ford.

innovations · April 2002

It's unfortunate that your 2 local dealerships are not being helpful. I think jeprox indicated that all of your issues could easily be fixed

"steering pull can solved with alignment or different tires. noisy brakes can solved by turning the drums or blowing out the dust. window washer leak can be fixed by changing a valve."

My 2001 doesn't have the same problems other than an occasional squeaky brake, but that doesn't seem to be a problem with stopping or wear on the pads.

As far as sludge, good luck and keep us posted. It would be a good idea to read the new Toyota Press Release if you haven't already. http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id=20020403

I think Toyota corporate has decided to do the right thing. It's a shame that your local dealerships haven't followed their lead. Maybe the tide will change.

davemm · April 2002

On MSN Money

"3,000-mile oil changes. Manufacturers typically suggest 5,000 miles, 7,500 miles or even longer intervals between oil changes (many car markers now include oil-life monitors that tell you when the oil is dirty -- sometimes as long as 15,000 miles.) There may be two recommendations for oil-change intervals: one for normal driving and one for hard use. If you live in a cold climate, take mostly very short trips, tow a trailer or have a high-revving, high-performance engine, use the more aggressive schedule. If you seldom drive your car, go by the calendar rather than your odometer. Twice a year changes are the minimum."

http://money.msn.com/articles/smartbuy/car/9249.asp?special=msn

wrichar107 · April 2002

Before we become overly enthusiastic about the Special Adjustment Policy (SPA) for those with sludged engines, why not wait to hear from a few of the folks who have taken advantage of Toyota's generous offer. For years, I touted the virtues of this company based on my own experience with a Celica and the comments of my friends who also owned Toyota cars and trucks. From now on, this company is going to have to prove itself to me before they get either my recommendation or my hard earned dollars.

bob57 · April 2002

Modelt:
You're pinning me down..get both

)
I purchased the Sienna because of the size, quietness, reputation (before all this sludge stuff came up..) and plus, got a good deal. Two friends who own Sienna's also recommended it. Dealership (at least mine) bends over backwards for you. I wasn't too enthused with the domestic brands. They were uncomfortable but their prices weren't too bad. I was also concerned about their overall reliability.
The Sienna is my wife's "baby". It's an excellent road/travel van, good gas mileage and has had one problem - the seat belt sensor went to another time zone and the dealer replaced it in 45 minutes at 9:30 at night (then falling on the sword and sending me a letter of apology - jeez people..). Interior is very comfortable and well appointed in my opinion.
(Now the people on the MPV posts will make me turn in my keys again....)

)

Now the weird part - Right after we purchased the Sienna (ok, guys, don't cringe - this was posted waaay back) my wife won the MPV on a radio/mall contest. I personally never looked at the MPV before. Now that I have that one it's MY baby. It's a little smaller than the Sienna in general size in & out but with the hide-away rear seat (you have to take the Sienna seat out - and it's heavy) makes it haul a bunch. It's nimble, easier to manuver in traffic, park, etc. It has some little goodies the Sienna doesn't. It also has been totally trouble free and gets good gas mileage. As far as power, the '02 MPV has a bigger engine now than my '01 so that doesn't enter into the equation any more. Each van has it's own unique qualities and I would get a headache (and drink three martinis) if I had to choose one over the other.
I can't tell you which one to purchase. I love them both. If I had a dog automobile I would be yelling like some others but that's not the case here. Both vans have something that will fit your taste. All I can tell is drive both and see which one fits your butt better

) and how it feels to you.

Now, Innovations: I only levitate on Saturday nights after those martinis... Actually, I'm in the group developing infrared lasers for chemical sensing, thin film optical sensors (bionic eye) for certain types of sight restoration, ulta-high efficiency solar cells (satellites and space platforms) and mopping floors. I'm real good at that last one...

innovations · April 2002

Interesting..

A new board has been started under "Maintenance and Repair" titled "Engine Sludge/Oil Gelling--Toyota's Customer Response"

stever · April 2002

Here's the link:

Engine Sludge/Oil Gelling--Toyota's Customer Response

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

modelt · April 2002

I would pay for 3 martinis and an Aspirin to get an answer out of you. Ever consider running for political office?

Thanks for you input. I drove them both, but still have a hard time to decide. IMHO Toyota has better ride and resale, MPV has better features and look. I guess it will boil down to pricing. I can get a MPV for about $900 less than an equivalent Toyota.

netsilk · April 2002

Today the Malfunction Indicator light on our 99 Sienna came on and stays on. The book says that we should take to Toyota dealer as soon as possible. Since we live in Metro DC area, I am concerned about a $50 fix costing $500. When my wife called to schedule the appointment, the service manager said it could be 5 minutes or 5 hours to diagnose. The car has 62K miles. Is there a common cause for the light being on? How do I get the codes from the computer?

One good point about Chrysler is that codes could be read just by turning the key on and off three times and then count blinks on a dashboard light. Any similar method for the Toyota?

THANKS<

deg856 · April 2002

Big Boss: I just read yet another re-post on the L.A. Times article. They must have re-posted it five thousand times. What are we gonna do?

Mr. Engineer: Weve been running tests non-stop and our data does not indicate any design problem. Those clowns who get sludge in their engines should pay their own way to get them fixed. The stupid media can go to h*** as far as Im concerned.

Marketing Guy: You may be correct technically, Mr. Engineer, but we are loosing this war. This has been a public relations disaster. People coming into the showrooms are asking if eating greasy food will cause sludge. I heard Hollywood is planning on making a movie about this. Words are Julia Roberts will play Charlene Blake, John Travolta her lawyer, and Allen Richman (the bad guy leader, Hans, in Die Hard) the Big Boss.

Big Boss: Nooooo!!! Not Hans!!! I have children! Marketing Guy, get Hans off my back. NOW!

Mr. Engineer (muttering to himself): I hate customers. Why cant I just make cars.

Marketing Guy (shaking his head and muttering to himself): These d*** engineers just dont get it.

Big Boss (thinking): Harrison Ford is more like me

*****

Jokes aside, the new policy is totally awsome!

San Jose, CA

zman21 · April 2002

All the way man.....all the way!!!

jj35 · April 2002

I posted this on the Toyota Sienna and the new Toyota sludge sites, but it seems like each of these sites has different people posting (and different personalities), so I will put it here, too.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/04/04/toyota-sludge.htm

In this article, Toyota says that lack of oil changes is the problem, but they are going to change the design anyway to prevent further problems - wonder what they are going to change if it isn't a design problem????

mrfong1 · April 2002

Would someone please explain the significance of residue under the oil fill cap, and what role it plays in engine sludge. I have read a few post that refer to this but cannot find the original post. Thanks.

koko164 · April 2002

What are the changes being made to the engines? I can guess that it's something related to crankcase ventelation but would like to know exactly what the changes are.

deg856 · April 2002

Check out messages #1620 and #1626 on this topic.

jj35 · April 2002

Toyota is supposed to be visiting the new engine sludge board under Maintenance and Repair to answer customer questions about sludge. You may want to pose your question there. The new site is under Maintenance and Repair or you can do a search for "sludge". This site was opened yesterday and already has over 70 posts (only one by Toyota, though).

deg856 · April 2002

I don't have a problem if they want to take a merely fool-proof engine and make it idot-proof. Do you?

San Jose, CA

stever · April 2002

The Toyota rep has posted a reply to the early questions in there, btw.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

jj35 · April 2002

The response from Toyota in the engine sludge forum regarding design changes is that they are modifying the PCV valve. I think this has been suggested several times as one of the possible culprits for sludge problems. I think I will get mine replaced on my next oil change (next week) to be safe. I hear that this is a $2 part. Any idea what the typical cost is to have a dealer change it?

pjksr · April 2002

The PCV valve should sell at dealers for $5 or $6. Ask the service writer, and IMO, if they don't put it in for free, then do it yourself.

Not sure that Toyota is changing the valve; rather the crankcase circulation. Probably, they'll be circulating more fresh air/increasing airflow volume...

jj35 · April 2002

I think you are right. I just reread tmsusa1's response on the sludge board and he says that it is a minor modification in the PCV "system". But I have heard many recommendations that a more frequent change interval for the valve(than the every 60,000 mi. recommended by Toyota) could deter sludge buildup.

jeprox · April 2002

back on posting #1603 (dardson1), the rear brakes on sienna's are not self adjusting. i just adjusted mine last night!

my brakes are now like quite powerful - just like when they're brand new!

i change my pcv valve annually. it cost me around C$10 or so for the valve.

jj35 · April 2002

I have heard that the valve is inexpensive, but difficult to install. Do you do it yourself? I was wondering how much Toyota may charge in labor if it is difficult to reach.

jeprox · April 2002

yes, i replace the pcv valve myself. not hard at all but hard to get at! u can do it yourself anywhere between 15mins to 30mins at the most.

i posted the location and how to do it before, but i cant remember what post number. i posted it about 3 weeks ago - i think.

the location of the valve is tight but replacing the valve is easy.

sorry i dont know how much labor would the dealer charge you. if i guess, i would say maybe $30 labor - just a guess.

tmat · April 2002

I have a question for JEPROX. How many miles/months should the Tranny/differential oil
be drained and refilled? I read the Maint. log and
call three different dealers which gave me three
different answers-not sure and confused. The dealer
wants about $100.00 for drain and refill,not flush.
I bought 2000 XLE in Feb. and now have 17400 miles on the odo. The 5 miles one way is the mix of
40 and 50 miles zone in Florida.
You seem very skillful on many early post,I wonder if you can give some tips,amount of oil especially the differential, and do it myself to save some money.
Thanks in advance.

jlhurry · April 2002

My 2000 Sienna XLE (28,500 miles) is in the shop b/c of a noise that changes pitch when accelerating. It turns out the noise is the transmission. Its still under warranty, so Toyota is replacing the transmission. Has anyone else experienced transmission problems or I'm I just lucky?

jeprox · April 2002

in the past, with my old cars - i do it annually for the tranny fluid change. depending on the vehicle, some requires the filter to be changed when the tranny fluid is changed.

with my sienna, it gets done every 24,000kms. which is roughly 15,000 miles. i follow the owners manual which indicates every 24,000kms. from what i was told, it's a good idea to do a flush n' fill every 48,000kms. which is roughly 30,000 miles. i would say that you follow what your owner's manual indicate. the next time i change a tranny, i will have a flush n' fill performed (around 72,000kms.).

it's not hard to do it yourself, much like changing oil and filter. you drain it and fill up again. just make sure you give it time after you fill up to get an accurate measurement on your tranny dipstick. to do a flush n' fill, only the dealer can do it unless u have the fluid flusher which is an expensive equipment.

dealers around my area charges approx. C$70 for tranny fluid change and approx. C$130 for flush n' fill.

goodluck.

innovations · April 2002

There was a short production of 2000's that had a problem with the transmission. It was discovered and corrected. You might check the manufacture date of yours to see if it falls in that category. Other's here should be able to give you more info. I just remember it when I was getting ready to buy my 2001. They said the problem was just in a run during the summer of 2000.

mcgreger · April 2002

innovations is correct about the transmission problems affecting a small number of '00 Siennas built towards the end of production for that model year. The problem I believe was in some defective torque convertors that were found in production Siennas from May '00 through July '00. I remember someone posted serial number ranges about the same time on this topic, so your best bet would be to scroll back to those months in 2000 to find out if yours is one of those included. I also passed up some great deals on remaining '00s just to stay clear of the possibility of getting one those affected by the TC's. Good luck.

koko164 · April 2002

I have a noise that only occurs around 40* in my 2000 LE. It's a "buzzing" sound that goes away when the fluid warms up some or if I put it in gear. My dealer has never had this complaint from any other Sienna owners.

jeprox · April 2002

any emission system experts out there?

does anyone know if i will fail the emissions test IF i remove one of my mufflers? i'm thinking to changing the mufflers to free-flow units and i'm also thinking of only having one muffler instead of two.

i dont think i will fail the test with just one muffler but i just wanted to be sure.

thanks

fburton · April 2002

This seems to be a common problem with this car model. I brought it to a local dealer and they suggested I replace the "sliding junction converters" on both doors at a total cost of $263. They said this piece has been upgraded and will get rid of the creaking noises.

My questions are: Has anyone had this piece replaced and if so did it fix the problem? Also, is there a less expensive way to get rid of this noise?

I bought this car about 4 months ago and am generally pleased except for this annoying problem. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

guest4254 · April 2002

My 1999 Sienna's brakes squeak, but only when in reverse, and putting a "medium" amount of pressure on the brake. If i press hard, no squeak, if I press very lightly, no squeak. Is thus the symptom of a future problem?

thewolverine · April 2002

Fred, yes, The door creak is very common - I have it in my 98 and much less so in my 2001 (Yes we have 2 Siennas).

I know there are TSBs for the door problem including (BO003-99)which calls for replacement of the junction boxes. But there's no need to do that.

When I took ours into the dealer, the low-tech solution was black electrical tape around the black plastic ovals in the door frame where the door connects - I think the lower one is the sliding junction converter or where the sliding junction converter connects.

But another way is to apply a lubricant to the effected areas. I have instructions that Toyota had sent to some dealers on this and will E-Mail to you if you'd like - for some reason I can't paste them into this post.

Anyways tape seemed to fix the problem quite well as this is basically a 'fit' (or lack of) problem. FYI our creaking would vary according to outside temp.

Lastly, sounds like your dealer is more interested in profit than helping you - no surprise but I'd confirm any repair advice from them going forward.

fburton · April 2002

I appreciate you sharing your experience with me. I have a couple of follow up questions for you. Also, I would appreciate the instruction from Toyota and have updated my profile so that it should contain my e-mail address.

Now, my questions. If I understand your solution, I should place electrical tape around the lower plastic form extending from the door frame. This form is much larger than the one higher in the door frame and contains what appears to be the heads of 2 metal tacks. It also has a little sponge-like material around the perimeter of the form. I guess I should place the tape around the perimeter. Do you know what the purpose of this "sliding converter" is?

I am curious about what purpose a lubricant will play if the problem is that the converter does not fit properly. It seems that the tape would have a much greater chance of fixing the problem than the lubricant given that the tape would fill unwanted gaps and the lubricant would exagerate the effects of the gaps.

Once again, thanks for helping me out.

tmat · April 2002

Recently, I notice a tiny wet around the valve cover,more in the rear block. My brother 01,xle,and my 00 xle have the same problem. It's
not that bad for now but my concern is the future.

Also, It could be the oil drops from the rear block, the corner part of the tranny pan , driver side, after the drain bolt viewing from the front facing to the back of the vehicle,there's some oil deposited on.

I wipe it clean,for now and wait to see at the next oil change what happen.

I'm wondering if anyone has encountered this problem.
thanks a bunch for any comment.

thewolverine · April 2002

Just sent an E-Mail with 4 attachments of the insttuctions I had found.

As for your questions - the electrical tape isn't really my solution -it's my dealers! Sounds like you have the location/placement accurate but I'll have to doublecheck my wife's van and verify.

I don't know the exact purpose of the converter but I'd assume it's used for things like locking (from the drivers side) as well as instructions for power door open/close. If anyone knows more I'd be interested in learnig this.

As for why a lubricant - not sure - I found these items after our van was fixed and was surprised a bit to see the alternative method - thought I'd just share all that I knew.

Toyota Sienna Maintenance and Repair (2003 earlier)

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