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I wish you luck with Chrysler on the extended warranty issue. I have found DC to be very bureaucatic on these issues.
When I bought my 2003 M to replace the 2000 M I had on lease, there literally was a $500 rebate form in the mail to me. It was a specific rebate to encourage existing customers to stay with DC. When I received the rebate form a few days after I bought the 2003 M, I sent a letter to DC asking them to honor the rebate as it was obviously sent to me to use for a new purchase. I got the Corporate response about how these rebates are regional responses to changing market conditions and were not retroactive to any prior sales.
I stated in my letter to them that as a valued repeat DC customer (last 5 cars) that I would hope they would make an exception to maintain our relationship, but no dice. For $500 (that they were going to give to me anyway) they effectively terminated an ongoing relationship with me.
Go figure!
Although I still haven't seen one in the flesh, and while certainly not as handsome as our Ms, I think the 300C is growing on me... not the grille, though.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
from my job. But at least I have a great car to get there.
One of tha main bummers of winter in the northeast is a semi-constantly dirty car...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I don't know if I will buy another Chrysler...I had a bad experience with an 84 Dodge and didn't by another Mopar until 99. But we'll see...maybe my tranny was the exception - which from what I see on this board it is - but if I DO buy another Chrysler, there is no doubt in my mind where I will buy it. Kudos to Keystone.
Don't do it; remember you have to look at it each morning when you walk out into the garage--it would be like marrying a woman whose appearance you couldn't stomach (I'm talking about buying the 300C). My unrequested advice is to go to your nearest Cadillac dealer and take the 3.6 CTS for a spin. It's a BMW 5 series for the price of a 3 series. Cadillac's bumper to bumper warranty is longer than DC, and GM quality leaves DC in the dust IMO. DMC is the only manufacturer I've heard of who can't even get their electric window motors right. Don't do it--it's too ugly to live with. You'll get ill and despise your life! OK, maybe I'm overstating a tad.
I respect your opinion, but I'm curious--do you like the 300C look better than the CTS? Some people, myself included, have warmed up to the look of the CTS over time. My post was very opinionated and biased against the 300C, so I expect to get flamed a bit, unless most people just don't want to defend the 300Cs looks.
My friend has an '02 Town and Country van that has had a lot of problems. She is going to sell it already for that reason. On the other hand I know someone at work who bought a Pacifica and likes it a lot. I'm curious to see if the Pacifica finally reaches the quality levels the DMC should be at. I'm surprised they're not out of business already with their quality problems from the past.
There are those that would beg to differ:
Mechanical problems experienced between 36-51K miles on 1999 300M with PH group (total owner cost out of pocket $5,500):
Broken shift cable
Two failed electric cooling fans
Two failed window motors
Failed, and continuing to fail, a/c compressor
Leaking A/C system
Failed steering pump
Failed transmission speed sensor
Catastrophic failure of transmission hydraulic pump (requiring call to Detroit to diagnose)
Chrylser products are are all spit and shine and great design but have no legs. The experience of this driver.
I bet you have spent less on your 1994 Toyota Camry LXE then you have on your 99 Chrysler.
fastdriver
I agree that stylewise, the 300M beats the 300 hands down. And with the 300M, there will always be exclusivety; something the 300 will never attain. And resale values will sink to Intrepid levels.
For these reasons, the 300 does not appeal to me. However, having said this, DC may do well volume-wise on their "one size fits all" strategy. And they may keep their costs down using the same sheet metal and platform for each of their full size sedans.
It's just not for me.
Generally, the only clear leader is usually Lexus -- it's a crapshoot after that.
Anyway, as I once posted, I would rather spend 3-5 years with a car that excited me than 8-10 years with a car that bored me...
Re: styling, love/hate styling seems to be Chrysler's forte. Boxy styling is nothing new and has seen success in recent years. The 300 is edgy and daring. This will appeal to many but not all of course. The C, just like with the M, will be a case of bang for the buck. What other large car offers what it does for @ $35k? The boring new Ford 500? You'll have to drop down to a midsize to find something comparable.
I agree. But the challenge wil be to outsell the 300M, Concord and Intrepid, because, at least for now, the 300 replaces all of them!
And if they do outsell all the previous LH cars, the 300 will be a pretty common car on the road...
I don't know if this is car-snobbish, but if I pay $36K for a car, I don't want it to look like a $23K car. Just one of the many reasons I love my M...
Lastly, on the Chrysler site I looked up the specs of the 300C. The 3.5 powered versions will only weigh in at about 3700 pounds; not bad for a 197 inch car. The hemi will weigh in at around 2 tons. Question; does anyone know if DMC will put variable valve timing on the 3.5 soon? That engine could use it as it's torque curve is not so great down low. That's a quite significant advantage to the cadillac 3.6 or the infiniti 3.5.
It'll be different than seeing a bunch of Accords though, because, unlike the Accords, you'll notice the 300's!
Chrysler sold plain 300's from about 1963-1971, and they were not part of the letter series heritage. Basically a trim between Newport and New Yorker. So, it's been done before. (There was also a 'Cordoba 300' in 1979.)
Fact: The 2005 line is '300' with 3 trim levels, base, Limited, and C. They are replacing three names, Concorde, LHS, and 300M, with one whole series.
With LH car's sales in the dumpster, Chrysler had to do something different. 300M's aren't looked at as 'premium' cars, as just another LH car.
As a 300M owner, I consider the 300M to be the premium LH car, both by appearance and content. The 300C will be the new premium 300, but the differentiation will be limited to content.
The 300C then becomes a $25,000 car with a bigger engine and upgraded amenities.
Just my humble opinion, but when it comes to my car purchases, it's the one that counts!
I expect mechanical problems with EVERYTHING mechanical, eventually. I take meticulous and pianstaking care of my 3 cars. What I did NOT bargain for with Chrysler was $5,500 in mechanical failures with less than 50K miles on the odometer. If you expect crap from detroit, you're going to get it. I don't. I expect more. I expect American automakers to hold themselves to higher standards. They must stop making "sales" a culture and make "quality engineering and construction" their culture. They haven't yet and the resale prices prove it. The Detroit sales mentality of cars as throw away disposables is disgusting - you can say you build better cars all day long, but so far the public has not agreed. They need to build a car you can own "reliably" for 6-8 years and not feel like you have to trade it in before it implodes every 2-3 years.
Actually, to answer your question, even if I was going to get crap from Detroit, I would still buy the vehicle, because I am a patriot and would rather drive an American car rather than a German vehicle. However, I don't expect "crap" either. It doesn't feel good to pay over 30K+ and receive crap. My point is, when you do buy an American car, you are eventually going to get crap, such as Mechanical problems. Any car is going to get the crap, not all cars are durable, they do break down. However, I suppose crap that you are experiencing, such as Mechanical problems, wouldn't happen on a German vehicle such as a Mercedes if it was to be over even 90K. My cousin drives a Mercedes Benz 560 SEC 1989 just above 140K miles and he hasn't experienced the "crap" you have received. My point is, you choose to buy an American car over a German car or another reliable car, and you are going to receive the crap no matter you like it or not. I understand, you would obviously not want to experience it, but you and I, 300M owners, know, that as the import cars pass by us, we will be fixing our domestic American "unreliable" cars while they are either driving or staring at their cars in their driveways. Makign things short, we love American cars, we buy them...it's not our fault they break down often, it's not our fault DC doesn't get it "WE want quality..." but the question is? why do we buy these vehicles in the first place? We love them. And we shouldn't blame Chrysler or the 300M, because well, thats how they are...but not every 300M is like another 300M, and your crap isn't necessarily going to happen on my M either, and so image shouldn't be based on one person's experience. I hate that.
As for the 300C, I was indifferent to it. It didn't move me one way or the other. The 300M was more of a looker in my opinion.
I don't see people talking about "Japanese crap" when Acura transmissions fail after 10,000 miles or Infiniti G35 brakes need to be replaced after 5,000 miles. Is that because of their well-earned reputation from decades ago?
Facts provide a much more credible opinion than perceptions...
The 300M was #34. Not great -- but in the top third of the survey. It was behind cars like the Lexus LS (#1), Honda Accord (#6), BMW 5-Series (#10), Acura TL (#11), Nissan Altima (#15), Infiniti G35 (#19)and Nissan Maxima (#27).
However, it was ahead of the BMW 3-Series (#36), Toyota Avalon (#37), Saab 9-5 (#38), Volvo v70 (#39), Acura RSX (#54), Toyota Solara (#59), Audi TT (#69), Porsche Boxter (#77), Nissan 350Z (#81), Honda S2000 (#92), Subaru Legacy (#101) and Mazda Miata (#110).
While American cars are well represented in the bottom half of the survey, so are all the other carmakers.
Bottom line -- there is very little difference in quality between American and other cars...
You can check out the complete list on Autopacific's web-site...