Chrysler 300M

intrepidspirit · January 2004

Cars are much more reliable now than when I started driving in the early 60's. They were a lot cheaper and a lot less reliable. They got terrible gas mileage, performance and horsepower were poor, and you were asking for big trouble if you didn't change your oil every 1000 miles! Tune-ups were required every 24,000 miles to keep them running.

And when the Toyotas and Datsuns (now Nissan) came out in the late 60's and early 70's, they were complete crap! We used to laugh as we passed them on the side of the road.

I think, from a performance/reliability standpoint, cars have improved tremendously over the years.

indydriver · January 2004

Anyone have an extra wheel sitting around? My 16 y/o daughter learned about chuckholes yesterday, destroying a new Michelin HydroEdge and right front wheel in the process. At least the road hazard policy I bought with the tires at Costco (only $5/tire) gets me a free tire.

BTW, I can now attest to the fact that the HydroEdges perform admirably in the snow.

indydriver · January 2004

LD-congrats on the Pats. Bellechek just has the Colts number. Good luck tomorrow.

PJ-Sorry to see about your tranny problems. After spending $600 for a new torque converter at 100K, I quit using Autostick.

indydriver · January 2004

I enjoy reading point/counterpoint of everyone's opinion of the new car's styling. One thing no one can argue about is that the R/T will run circles around an M. If you like performance with a capital P, and a roomy four door sedan, this will be one fine automobile. RWD and a powerful V-8 are an intoxicating combination.

achance · January 2004

Haven't looked in on this board in a while, new job and no time to play. I'm proud to report that my '99 non-PHP has made 40K miles on Alaska roads and weather with essentially zero problems. It has warped its front disks a couple of times but I attribute that mostly to driving on wet roads almost constantly and all cars seem to share that problem here. The only thing I've ever had to spend money on was regular oil, fluid and filter service; nothing's broken and everything still works just as when new. I drive it semi-hard and will admit to using the trunk and fold down seat like it was a truck, it is amazing what you can haul in it. So, that's my 2 cents worth in this spirited discussion.

fastdriver · February 2004

Going to the auto show in Providence, RI today. DYING to see this new 300C tank in the flesh. Digital camera all set and ready to go. If I see anything nice/different/intersting, I'll try to post the pics later tonight or tomorrow.

fastdriver

fastdriver · February 2004

Hope everyone is sitting down for this statement. Seeing the 300C HEMI today, in a color OTHER than that ugly dark gray/blue gray that DC shows it in, gives it an ENTIRELY different look. That and seeing it in person has made me come to the conclusion that it really is better looking in person than ANY picture that I have seen so far. WHY does DC insist on showing every picture of just that ugly grill?

Now, if it just stays together with nothing breaking, falling off or leaking, DC might sell a few more than the Crossfires and Pacificas! :-))

Take a look. Not the best pictures I have ever taken. Some day I'll learn how to use this super Nikon, but that won't be until they write an easy to use/detailed manual.

A few things to notice- when the doors are open, there is a light UNDER the door that illuminates the ground. Not sure if those red reflectors on the end of the door light up or not. The "chrome" strips on the bumpers are plastic. I was able to lean in and tap the wheels to see what they were made of. Definitely NOT like the chrome aluminum wheels that Christine had in 99! They could have been fake for the show, but they sounded like plastic when I tapped them. That was about all I could see because they had it on a revolving platform. NO hands on!

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/fastdriver2_99/album?.tok=phHYGl- - ABZW80p1He&.dir=/d09e&.src=ph

fastdriver

bigmike5 · February 2004

Nice run of pictures. Looks like it was drawing an overwhelming number of admirers as you were snapping pics. Still a dog in my mind. Probably won't get to see one live until about mid-summer where I live. I can wait. Too bad you couln't have posted the Dream Cruise photos here since Edmunds threw in T-shirts for the event.

How bout those Pats? I have trouble watching their games live [ I usually tape and then watch only if they win] but I made it through yesterday. I think the field condition along the sideline affected both teams and gave the receivers an edge. But I could have done without another last minute drive for the win. Kept hoping they would have that "perfect" outing that has been missing the whole year. Not to be but they got it done.

illini4 · February 2004

Yeah, the wheels on the C have the plastic cladding. At the Detroit show there were 3 models on the floor, including the C, that you could sit in, etc. Other than that, I really liked the car and it was definitely drawing a crowd.

fastdriver · February 2004

bigmike5-

I can post the Dream Cruise pics. Then you can post the link wherever you want, unlike Ofoto. I still have them. I just have to move them to my YAHOO pic folder. In Ofoto.com, where they are now, there is NO URL that I can give out to see them. I have to e-mail the invite to the pics. I have those pics, along with many others on my MAC at home and at work. I set them as my desktop pics and have them change every minute or so. They're great! I'll post the link later on.

I didn't catch the whole game because I got home later than expected. Never mind the Pats. What about the halftime show!!! What can you expect when you hire someone to perform who's NOT too tightly wrapped to begin with! Great role model for all the kids who were watching. Now she falls into the same category as Christina, Britney and Beyonce- half-naked! Then we wonder why kids are the way they are and dress the way they do.

illini-

I know that the wheels were one of many things that DC "decontented", but these were really "cheap" sounding when I tapped on them. I can't believe that these are the wheels for the production models. Time will tell.

BTW- it looked like this car had those "back-up" sensor warnings in the bumper. I assume that's what those little buttons are on the back bumper. Just thought of something. I don't recall seeing a place for the front license plate. Guess it'll just get stuck on that "Rolls Royce" grill! :-))

fastdriver

pat · February 2004

Hey folks - could we remember what the subject of this discussion is? We do have a 300C discussion, and we surely don't need a discussion on the halftime show of the game last night. There's plenty of that conversation going on all over the web!

:-)

ruski · February 2004

hey man, my Acura's tranny #2 is on the brink at 34,000+ miles. I am so happy I found your post #15617:

"I'm sorry to hear that. How many miles do you have? I have just over 5K miles & my CL-S seems fine. Also I found out from one of my sources that Rick Case doesn't have the best service. Ed Morse is supposed to be the better dealer for service."

So I am gonna take it to Ed Morse Acura today if I can make it.

Sorry everyone for off topic post.

But hey, you all should be happy that you drive a 300M and not an Acura TL-S. Now this makes it a little more on topic since I mentioned 300M

silverbullet4 · February 2004

Hi! It's been awhile since I posted. Now that I have logged over 50k miles, I can give you my maintenance experiences.

In-warranty

Replaced Body Control Module to correct problems with door lock function and interior light turn-off.
Replaced sunroof because of slight seperation at gasket seam.
Replaced starter. (I replaced the battery prematurely, thinking I had a bad cell).

Out of Warranty

Replaced Power Steering cooler damaged by driving on rocky trail. (really dumb).
Replaced belts. (just paranoid)
The driver seat is making a funny popping noise. I think one of the springs must have broken.
The infamous "light show" recurs every so often, but is "fixed" by moving the intensity control.

My experience has been no worse than my experience with Ford and GM products. I have had no problems with the A/C or tranny. I got 46K out of the OEM Michelin Pilots. My Infinity BassLink has performed flawlessly for two years.

The styling is still contemporary and fresh for me. I still love this car.

Regards, Bill

lflowers · February 2004

My M's odometer will turn 80K on my way home from work tonight.
I've repaired:
1) a bent rear suspension piece (I can't remember what it was called).
2) battery (preventive maintenance after 4 years)
3) steering tie rod ends and steering rack (replaced at about 72K - rack covered by extended warranty)
4) spark plugs (changed to Bosch +4's)

Never had any other problems that I considered worth taking the car in for. I do get the "light show occasionally, but,as Bill mentioned previously, adjusting the intensity control seems to fix it for a while.
I still love my M also. I've never seen anything else anywhere near the price range I would swap mine even for.
If I were to start having lots of problems, I would probably consider one of the new GTOs.

Lynn Flowers
McKinney, Texas

laurasdada · February 2004

My '99 M has 56,000+ miles.

Warranty: Two window motors and one tranny speed sensor.

Out of warranty: Nothing (knock plood!). Still have two of the OEM Goodyears, other two went flat, had to be replaced.

And, like the prior two posts, every so often I get the "light show" and rectify it by adjusting the rheostat.

For a first model year domestic (Chrysler!), I'm very impressed with the overall reliability of my M. Not as bulletproof as the Mitsubishi, Acura Nissan and Lexus (so far, two years and 27,000 miles trouble free) I've owned, but no worse than my Saab.

And yes, I too, still look back at the Platinum beauty after parking and leaving the car...

bluesky999 · February 2004

Well, I guess they're not great but I'm encouraged that the things going are not transmissions & motors. Chrysler claims to be working very hard on quality, so it will be interesting to see if the new 300s coming out will be a marked improvement. BTW, I've run into people lately whose engines (non-Chrysler) have had 295K (w/o overhaul), 240K (Volvo that person sold was running fine), and have heard through the grapevine of others up in the 200s. Anyone know how long our 3.5 engines are supposed to last? I'm wondering if some of them will go into the upper 200s if people were to keep them, or the upper 100s would be more realistic. On my last Buick which I dumped in '01, the engine had 155K and was just as strong as when I got it.

indydriver · February 2004

My '99 now has 122,000 on the clock and the engine is still perfect. I just recently drove it to Naples and back-2300 miles-crusing 80 to 90 mph. Burns zero oil between changes. The only thing I've noticed since new is that it seems to get a lot better gas mileage now. Regretfully, it is no longer my daily driver, having been handed down to my daughter.

indydriver · February 2004

Found an interesting solution to my bent wheel from my daughter hitting a monstrous pothole. It turns out Discount Tire has a wheel repair service. Drop it off and it comes back "good as new". Apparently, they heat it up enough to reshape it back to true dimensions and roundness. $125. I tried it, we'll see. Also, got a free $138 Michelin HydroEdge from Costco thanks to their $5 road hazard policy. The M is happy to have four shoes again. Has anyone tried to reinstall the jack/spare/cover assembly a week after using it? A half-hour project!

mileshoover · February 2004

FWIW - I have found when the light show occurs lately, just twisting the knob of both the intensity and headlight switch through their full ranges seem to stop the problem.

My reasoning was that both these devices are rheostats. It used to be that a solution for fixing one which had problems was to twist its control knob a dozen or so turns, cleaning corruption off the copper bands.

Dunno if these switches still use copper wrappings to get more or less intensity, but it seems to work.

bluesky999 · February 2004

Indy, 122K and still strong is great. I think you're the leader on this board for mileage. Are you still on the original tranny? And how happy are you with the Hydro-Edges? There's a Costco by me and I was wondering how they are w/tires. Problem w/Discount Tire is they don't extend to much of the NorthEast.

pster · February 2004

Didn't mean to spark all the controversy over US made cars. I actually like the 300C styling....V8...good price point.....but....DC just HAS to offer it with a 5 year or 50,000 mile bumper=to-bumper warranty just to meet the competition. I state once again, $5,500 in out of warranty repairs before 52k miles is ridiculous and unacceptable. If my car was the exception, then DC should have stepped up to help me. They wouldn't, and didn't. As far as I am concerned, buying a Chrysler is like playing russian roulette, mechanically speaking. End of story.

fastdriver · February 2004

bigmike5-

This YAHOO photo album stinks! Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Try this link for the 2003 Dream Cruise pics. This off-topic post SHOULD be okay since Edmunds was involved. If it disappears, just e-mail me for the URL.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/fastdriver2_99/album?.tok=phXGTn- ABOIhZjcpD&.dir=/53d2&.src=ph

fastdriver

alcatrazt2 · February 2004

"If my car was the exception, then DC should have stepped up to help me. They wouldn't, and didn't." DC isn't responsible for your car, nor should their image be tarnished by your problems. It is like roulette, either it happens or it doesn't...but we can't think of cars like that because even those "reliable" cars can make us pertain to the Russian roulette game as well. Either you get lucky or you don't...and you didn't, as of me, I'll have to find out. Good luck on your M pster, I know it's a hassle, spending so much money on a baby that you love and paid so much for isn't a good thing either, it just gets you frustrated...Better luck next time, and better luck on your M's health...same to all of you!

bigmike5 · February 2004

Fast- The photos came out great the way you posted em. [For those who don't remember, I ran the meet at the Dream Cruise last year for the 300M's and despite the power outage, it was a great event when the gas and power became available. Edmunds kicked in T-shirts for attendees. I was shooting 35mm and only could afford to shoot a couple of rolls of the 000's of cars that were there. Wish I had a digital at the time, but no luck on that.]

Indy-- Many moons ago I put on a posting about using the Jack and taking the time in daylight to find the jack points on the body of the M. It is probably a good idea to remind new owners [and those who have never had a flat in the M,] that figuring out how to use and reassemble the jack is a half hour spent that is worthwhile before it needs to be used. I have hand rotated my 5 wheels when I was searching for a bad belt on a Badyear in the OEM group on the car, and it takes some concentration and patience to use the jack efficiently. [Like 10 turns to elevate about a 1/2 inch. After that first experience I bought a cheap X shaped lug wrench and put it in the wheel well so I could spin the wrench for quicker results.] Unfortunately, I had "two" bad Badyears, and so I could never figure out which "one" was bad. Talk about frustrated. I finally went to BF Goodrich at 40K miles and have had better luck. [DC quickly changed over to Michelins the next year [2000] and solved the tire problem.] And always hand re-tighten the lugs to no more than 100 psi after the guy with the impact wrench does his thing on a rotation, otherwise warped rotors are possible.

dukeofdallas · February 2004

Twice in the last couple of months my car hasn't gone into drive. The first time I backed out of a parking spot, and when I put it in drive...nothing. I cycled through the positions including autostick but nothing. Then suddenly it engaged and I was off. A month or so later, I pulled up to a light after leaving my parking garage. When the light turned green it wouldn't go. Again cycled through the positions w/ no luck and then it suddenly engaged. I haven't seen this problem posted here b4 but maybe somebody's seen it. Am I on the verge of a catastrophic tranny failure? Maybe I linkage/cable thing needs replacing. I'm getting the basic tranny service done this weekend. Thanks in advance for any input.

tayl0rd · February 2004

I believe most folks will agree that it's a transmission input sensor or something of that sort. I don't think you have a "catastrophic failure" coming.

easyrider300m · February 2004

I don't think it's a tranny sensor. A tranny sensor will cause the tranny to only drive in 2nd gear. Your are getting a slippage. Does it shift through the gears once you are moving? A fluid change may solve the problem or perhaps you should try replacing the Transmission control relay in the small black box in the engine compartment. If neither of those solve the problem, then you may have something more serious.

Keep us posted on the remedy.

indydriver · February 2004

Still on the original trans but...replaced the torque converter at about 100K--cost $600 at a dealer. This failure caused the check engine light to come on and the dealer's computer readout pointed to the TC. Its run and shifted fine since then, although I no longer do any manual shifting.

The HydroEdges have been great for my use. I need a high mileage tire with good all-season performance, and this may be the best tire of that description I've ever used. It comes with an 85,000 mile warranty, a 760 (!) treadwear rating, A traction, B temp. So its a hard compound coupled with an aggressive tread pattern. I've got about 5,000 miles on them and so far they've been good on a high speed dry run to FLA, good in the wet and now, good in the snow.

RE: Costco, I've been very happy with this first tire purchase from them. They have occasional promos with Michelin (I got $60 off the set) and good service. When I went back with the repaired wheel-obviously they had to mount and balance the new replacement tire-I also had them rotate and balance the others. This was all finished by the time I got done with 30 minutes of shopping inside the store. With the discount above, I spent $120/tire including road hazard and lifetime rotation w/balance. So far, very pleased with the tire and the service.

indydriver · February 2004

Well, I'm batting 1.000 now. Three trannys in a '90 minivan; TC for the M; now, my wife's '00 minivan required a $500 repair for "leaking solenoid" and "burnt fluid", even though recommended service intervals have been followed. About 52,000 on the clock. My all DC garage is about to lose some marketshare.

dukeofdallas · February 2004

The sensors were changed last yeaa some time and these symptoms don't really fit that anyway. THe car shifts perfectly 99.9% of the time. Just on the 2 occassions mentioned have I had a problem. "slippage" is what came to mind for me but I dont' know what that means technically. Easy, I think I'll try both of your suggestions. Thanks.

pster · February 2004

I have had the following transmission problems:

Hydraulic pump in tranny failed. Dealer service reps had to call Chrysler in Detroit to diagnose this problem.

Sensor failure (twice)

Shift cable failure. Shifter becomes balky and does not move into gears easily, eventually it won't move it all.

Most recently, the rubber door seal around the driver side rear pasenger opening has come loose. I've tried to get it to stay affixed to the metal rail it is attached too, withour success. Guess I'll just not have that door used. Sick and tired of paying for fixes. 67K miles now and still searching for replacement vehicle. I'm betting the 20% German content in the new 300C is all driveline related. Chrysler trannys SUCK.

dukeofdallas · February 2004

Your problems, including the transmission related, have certainly been well documented here. Do the symptoms for any of your tranny problems match up with mine?

pster · February 2004

When the hydraulic pump failed, the transmission shifter funny for awhile, hard to describe but there were times when it seemed to shift slowly between gears, then abrubtly. Eventually I couldn't get it into 1st gear at all.

ruski · February 2004

you wanna talk about transmissions? I just had a second transmission replaced in my 2002 Acura TL-S. Now whose trannies suck?

bluesky999 · February 2004

Thx Indy for the update. I'll try Costco one of these tire changes in the future. Sorry about the TC and your wife's minivan. Chrysler has got to be doing something terribly wrong to have some so many problems it seems to me. Just my 2 cents.

bigmike5 · February 2004

Once about 4 years ago I shifted to Drive after backing out of the garage, and I got nothing for a few seconds. I thought I missed the Drive slot so I went through the various positions and it shifted without a glitch the next time. That happened only once, and I think one of the guys in Tucson or Denver had it happen once also. Since then no issues. If there is a tranny relay I would start there. The various relays are usually cheap [$10] and easy to replace.

silverbullet4 · February 2004

I'll give you bad transmissions! I had three go bad in two different Taurus's (3.0 V6 and OD). This Ford transmission was described to me by the shop as one they see often. Said the only time he sees a Toyota is when they come in for routine service. Oh, yeah--Two rebuilds on my wife's '93 Grand Voyager in 150k miles.

Good luck to all!

Silver

muskateer3 · February 2004

Just took my 00M in for minor fixes. These included the dreaded door seal shrinkage and a jammed seat belt retractor in the rear seat.

Was informed that all four door seals needed replacement at a cost of $35 parts/$35 labor each. Not covered by extended warranty. Jammed rear seat belt needed replacement at $85 for the belt and $70 for labor. Again not covered. Total estimate: $435 plus tax.

Decided to have a look myself.

Seatbelt was jammed by a plastic washer on the side of the belt pulley (not needed as there is a metal one right behind it) that had split and jammed the mechanism. Picked it out and threw it away. Re-assembled. Works perfectly Cost $0.

Removed plastic door threshold trim from each of the four doors and re-installed the door molding leaving the gap from the shrinkage under the area where the door threshold goes. Though there is a definite gap under the threshold, the door trim now fits perfectly around the rest of the door. Cost $0

Will now order one (1) piece of door moulding which I will cut to appropriate lengths and install in each of the gaps under the door sills for a permanent fix. Cost $35

Knowing that my dealer did not relieve me of over $400 for doing basically nothing.... priceless!!

fastdriver · February 2004

muskateer3-

LOL...priceless is right! However, on the seatbelt issue, I THINK there is some kind of extended warranty on them kind of like the emission warranty. Seems that I read that on a rare occasion when I was reading the owner's manual.

I had the shrinking weatherstrip problem too on the rear driver's side door that was opened about 10 times during the entire 33 months that I owned Christine. Rarely was anyone in the backseat. Turned it in like that. There is a TSB on that problem that Chrysler is well aware of and has been since 99.

fastdriver

bluesky999 · February 2004

Great story. It really pays these days to be able to do some work on your own car. At $65/hour labor at the dealer, and they charge an hour or more for any little kind of thing, I avoid them like the plague. Like you, I like to get the estimate from them 1st so I know how much I'm saving when I either do the fix myself or give it to a local garage I know that works much cheaper...

muskateer3 · February 2004

I had a feeling that there should be some sort of extended warranty on safety equipment, but the dealer's service writer either didn't know it (doubtful) or preferred not to mention it(likely).

But since the seat belt mechanism was still servicable, and since I did not want to take the time (hassle) to argue my point with someone who was clearly not on my side, this solution seemed more efficient.

M3

fastdriver · February 2004

muskateer3-

I hear you! I KNOW how "accommodating and helpful" those "5-STAR" service managers can be from PAST experience!

fastdriver

muskateer3 · February 2004

I don't think dealers repair anything anymore. They just replace. This way, they can make a profit on the part, overcharge you with with flat rate labor, and move on to the next vehicle.

At the end of the day, the average mechanic has flagged 25 hours in an 8 hour day, replaced countless parts needlessly, and helped the dealer's bottom line in the process.

But I'm not bitter!!

M3

alcatrazt2 · February 2004

Hello everyone:
I am only 16, don't know much about the consequences of what I did, nor the 300M engine. Basically, a few days ago, I woke up in the morning, and was going to go for a drive. The car wasn't warmed up, cold engine. Instead of having my foot on the brake, I had it on the gas pedal. The second I start the car, I have a habit of pusing the brake. However, this time, I pushed the gas. My car only reved up to 2500 R.P.M., however it happened right at the time when I turned on the car...Can I have possible problems due to what I did...can that result to possible problems if it is done...thanks.

bigmike5 · February 2004

No big deal on pressing the accelerator at the starting of the car. Normally, it is not done with the electronic fuel injection, but as long as you didn't red line it in neutral for an extended period of time it should be no problem. Old people [like me] still sometimes end up depressing the gas pedal out of habit because the old cars we grew up with didn't have electronic fuel injection and normally responded better to ignition if you depressed the pedal when starting the car. You should have no problem...don't worry about it.

fuzzywuzzy · February 2004

Your fine. It's one thing to rev to over 5K rpm & hold it there, but only briefly at 2500 isn't a big deal.

mrl859 · February 2004

There is one thing you must realize. In the old days, parts were available to repair assemblies. With all the electronics on modern cars, most components are sold as part of assemblies and pieces of those assemblies are not available separately. It is not the dealer doing this to jack up profits, it's the nature of today's advanced electronics.

mrl859 · February 2004

The reason why the engine only revved to 2500 is because there is a built in rev limiter for when the car is in park or neutral. This keeps the engine from over revving when there is no load on it.

fuzzywuzzy · February 2004

True however, 99.9% of the time parts at a dealer are more expensive then at a parts store. And parts prices vary with dealers. So the dealers do control what the puplic pays. Just like any bussiness they want to make money at the expensise of the consumer. It's the consumers job to not get taken.

mrl859 · February 2004

It is definetly true that dealers do set their own prices. My point was that it is not the dealers who determine what is serviced as an assembly and what is not.

Chrysler 300M

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